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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 96

post #2851 of 9468
I understand that the set had to go back because of other problems that you have had. I wish you luck with the E8000, and hope you get a good one since Samsung seems to have more issues and worse reliability than Panasonic.

As far as pricing on glasses goes, I think build quality should be kept in mind when comparing the $20 Samsungs and $60+ Panasonics. I own the SSG-4100s and while they work the same as the Panasonics, they have much smaller lenses, run on batteries instead of being rechargeable, aren't sealed on the sides (let a lot of light in), don't fold back, and are generally rigid and uncomfortable, especially if you wear prescription glasses like me.
post #2852 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

They didn't say it was very bad.

I agree, I think you'll like the LG- passive 3D is the best IMO and they have a lot more controls for image tweaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post

I returned an LG 55LW5600 for the 55ST50. IMO the LG was better in 3D, there was zero crosstalk and it was very comfortable to watch. At 10' the resolution loss wasn't very noticeable but it is there. I think Tron looks better on the Panny but Tangled and Tin Tin looked better on the LG. the crosstalk on Tangled with the Panny is pretty bad in spots. 2d is a different story, the Panny is better by a far margin. The LG suffered from really bad flash-lighting and edge bleeding, totally ruining any dark or letter boxed movies. The picture is so much better in 2d on the Panny that I can live with its 3d faults since I only watch 3d maybe 5 percent of the time.

Passive 3D tech is a little better overall, but then you have to deal with all the anomalies of a edge lit LED, and there are many.......
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post #2853 of 9468
Mine still has image retention/burn-in from the Netflix progress bar/pause block after running slides for 120 hours. It does look a little better after running the slides, but you can still faintly see it on a dark grey slide. I'm not sure a camera could photograph it, but you can see it.

The funny thing is my Google TV box has a 10 minute screen saver, so the paused screen was only up for less than 10 minutes at a time. I guess at this point I must have burn in as 10 minutes at a time is apparently enough to cause uneven aging since I paused it a bunch of times before I realized the issue The high contrast of the Netflix progress bar doesn't help since it's white on black!

Had I known IR/burn-in was still an issue, I wouldn't have bought the TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiotypE View Post

This TV seems to do a much better job at limiting or eliminating line bleed. Banding is also way less pronounced than any plasma TV I have owned. IR is also handled much better and I have not noticed any IR after several hours of BF3 and watching movies in letterbox format

I would definitely exercise a bit of caution when viewing for the first few hundred hours but I don't think you have anything to worry about.
post #2854 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance_M View Post

I've been watching 3d on my 60" once a week. Ultimate wave Tahiti, Hubble, under the see and probably going to watch Sammy's adventure this weekend.

I've notice barely any cross talk on my set

I just ordered 2 pair of glasses and under the sea.. How is it? I might grab hubble also.
post #2855 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Mine still has image retention/burn-in from the Netflix progress bar/pause block after running slides for 120 hours. It does look a little better after running the slides, but you can still faintly see it on a dark grey slide. I'm not sure a camera could photograph it, but you can see it.

The funny thing is my Google TV box has a 10 minute screen saver, so the paused screen was only up for less than 10 minutes at a time. I guess at this point I must have burn in as 10 minutes at a time is apparently enough to cause uneven aging since I paused it a bunch of times before I realized the issue The high contrast of the Netflix progress bar doesn't help since it's white on black!

Had I known IR/burn-in was still an issue, I wouldn't have bought the TV.

Oh here we go.. It will go away,it takes a lot longer than 10 mins to permanently burn in an image..
post #2856 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Passive 3D tech is a little better overall, but then you have to deal with all the anomalies of a edge lit LED, and there are many.......

True and that's the reason I bought the GT50- the best 2D television for my money.
post #2857 of 9468
Oh here we go what? Please explain how the aging of phosphors isn't additive (because if you think it's not, I'm not sure you know what you're talking about)? Like I said I paused it a bunch of times, probably at least a 100-200 in total.

You also need to define what permanent is. If it's still viable after 100-200 hours, I think you are on shaky ground saying it's not permanent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

Oh here we go.. It will go away,it takes a lot longer than 10 mins to permanently burn in an image..
post #2858 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Mine still has image retention/burn-in from the Netflix progress bar/pause block after running slides for 120 hours. It does look a little better after running the slides, but you can still faintly see it on a dark grey slide. I'm not sure a camera could photograph it, but you can see it.

The funny thing is my Google TV box has a 10 minute screen saver, so the paused screen was only up for less than 10 minutes at a time. I guess at this point I must have burn in as 10 minutes at a time is apparently enough to cause uneven aging since I paused it a bunch of times before I realized the issue The high contrast of the Netflix progress bar doesn't help since it's white on black!

Had I known IR/burn-in was still an issue, I wouldn't have bought the TV.

Please go to the following thread and read : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1287543

Can you see the image when the TV is off?

Slides do not prevent nor remove IR. If you have ever stained wood or painted then you know the principle of overlap marks. IMO, running slides to remove IR is much like staining or painting over those overlap marks without sanding and expecting them to go away. The only possible way to "remove" them would be to run an image that is the negative of that same exact image.

It is possible that you let some previous posts, where there was unreasonable freaking out going on, and let it impact you as well. Relax, your tv is not damaged.

Now that you have read, I kindly ask you to use the correct terminology when describing the flaws that you think your tv may have. It is entirely possible that your comments could start incorrect rumors that very well could circulate the world and at the very least prevent someone from buying a fantastic tv for all the wrong reasons. Thank you.
post #2859 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Oh here we go what? Please explain how the aging of phosphors isn't additive (because if you think it's not, I'm not sure you know what you're talking about)? Like I said I paused it a bunch of times, probably at least a 100-200 in total.

You also need to define what permanent is. If it's still viable after 100-200 hours, I think you are on shaky ground saying it's not permanent.

Don't run the slides, just watch regular programming.

Is this your first plasma?
post #2860 of 9468
What scientific difference does watching normal programming over slides make? Since I can't watch TV for 100+ hours straight, I used slides instead.
post #2861 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Don't run the slides, just watch regular programming.

Is this your first plasma?

Yes,even CNET review said,don't worry. The correction for it is to simply watch tv. It will go away. I remember a few years back when they had some sort of white washing you could turn on in the tv menu to display shades of white or something that would get rid of IR.. Also,it is almost impossible to get permanent burn in on new plasma's.
post #2862 of 9468
Incorrect rumors how?!? Are you saying I haven't ran my TV for 120 hours and that I can't still see a ghost like image?

I'm fine with using the correct terminology, but my issue does seem like uneven aging of phosphors. It is very slight, but you can see it on slides.

So, if it's still there after 2000-4000 hours, can I call it permanent then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Please go to the following thread and read : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1287543

Can you see the image when the TV is off?

Slides do not prevent nor remove IR. If you have ever stained wood or painted then you know the principle of overlap marks. IMO, running slides to remove IR is much like staining or painting over those overlap marks without sanding and expecting them to go away. The only possible way to "remove" them would be to run an image that is the negative of that same exact image.

It is possible that you let some previous posts, where there was unreasonable freaking out going on, and let it impact you as well. Relax, your tv is not damaged.

Now that you have read, I kindly ask you to use the correct terminology when describing the flaws that you think your tv may have. It is entirely possible that your comments could start incorrect rumors that very well could circulate the world and at the very least prevent someone from buying a fantastic tv for all the wrong reasons. Thank you.
post #2863 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Oh here we go what? Please explain how the aging of phosphors isn't additive (because if you think it's not, I'm not sure you know what you're talking about)? Like I said I paused it a bunch of times, probably at least a 100-200 in total.

You also need to define what permanent is. If it's still viable after 100-200 hours, I think you are on shaky ground saying it's not permanent.

Seriously? This should help..
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/permanent[1]
post #2864 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Incorrect rumors how?!? Are you saying I haven't ran my TV for 120 hours and that I can't still see a ghost like image?

I'm fine with using the correct terminology, but my issue does seem like uneven aging of phosphors. It is very slight, but you can see it on slides.

So, if it's still there after 2000-4000 hours, can I call it permanent then?

Can you see it when the tv is off?

Can you see it when watching regular programming?
post #2865 of 9468
Seriously, you can tell the future and tell me a problem that I've had after 120+ hours will for sure go away? :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

Seriously? This should help..
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/permanent[1]
post #2866 of 9468
No and no. However, I and others can see the issue, but only on select slides and it is very faint. Like I said the TV has a great 2D picture, and that's the only reason I'm keeping it. However, in retrospect, I might have waited for a different display (I agree one isn't out now, but in a year or so maybe).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Can you see it when the tv is off?

Can you see it when watching regular programming?
post #2867 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

No and no. However, I and others can see the issue, but only on select slides and it is very faint. Like I said the TV has a great 2D picture, and that's the only reason I'm keeping it. However, in retrospect, I might have waited for a different display (I agree one isn't out now, but in a year or so maybe).

Throw away the slides and watch tv. You're ranting about nothing. You may not like hearing that but it's the truth.

And yes, what you're seeing on slides will go away and it is not burn in.
post #2868 of 9468
As far as I'm concerned if there's always something on the screen, different places or not, then it's permanent. I know that's not the true definition of burn-in. I get it. If it fades away over time it's image retention. That doesn't change the fact that if by the time something has faded, something new is someplace else, then, essentially, there's always something on your screen, How is that not permanent? That's the big problem with plasma. Everybody always talks about how it's only temporary, but doesn't like to admit that if it takes days at a time to erase one ghost image then another one appears elsewhere, it's a constant issue you're dealing with. Who cares if it's the same image there forever or if its always something different in different spots - there's still stuff on your screen half the time.
post #2869 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Throw away the slides and watch tv. You're ranting about nothing. You may not like hearing that but it's the truth.

And yes, what you're seeing on slides will go away and it is not burn in.

No doubt,my lord.. Its probably a good thing the average joe doesn't come onto forums or no company would sell anything. I'm getting my ST50 delivered next week,I'll see how the 3D is,and I'm sure it will be fine,because I'm not expecting a miracle..
post #2870 of 9468
I am new to HD (and posting here) as I held onto my Sony 32" tube for 17 years. I mainly watch sports, baseball and basketball now but can't wait for football season in HD. Motion handling and wide angle viewing are important to me so I veered toward plasma instead of LED/LCD. After reading some reviews, the D7000 seemed like a good value but I was concerned about the peeling black filter many had reported so decided to try a D6500 even though I have windows on the side and back of my viewing room. I figured if I could handle watching the old Sony tube in that room that the D6500 wouldn't be any worse as far as reflections went. I was floored after hooking up and watching the D6500 for the first time. Much of that was probably due to the jump from non HD to HD and the giant 59" screen on the D6500. I loved just about everything on that tv. The picture was great and I found myself mesmerized when watching a baseball game with the color and detail. The tv fit snugly inside a cabinet so the rotating stand was also very nice for reaching the inputs without having to pull the tv out each time. However, everyone in the family noticed the BUZZ when about 12' directly in front of the screen. Just a slight move to the side and you didn't notice it anymore. It was still just too distracting to enjoy the set. As it was still within the return window, I attempted to get another of the same model but Amazon was sold out. Since I would have to get a different model altogether, I decided to try a Panasonic as the complaints about buzzing seem to be much less than Samsung. After a little more research, the ST50 looked to be a great value for a 2012 model so I purchased the 60". No buzzing at all which was fantastic. The stand did not swivel which is less than ideal but not a deal breaker. However, when watching baseball the closeups are still very sharp but i've noticed when viewing from the center field camera there is a pronounced image blur around the pitchers shoulders and neck when he starts his pitch. It looks almost like pixelation like the set cannot figure out what is the players body, jersey, hat or the backstop behind home plate. I can also see a double image along his right side. (not just one game but noticed this for several games on several different channels on Uverse.) I tuned the settings to the Cnet recommendations but this didn't change anything with the blurriness. But it does seem to be related to the distance of the player from the camera. Again, closeups are great but players in the middle distance seem to get blurry especially if moving. I also noticed the fans sitting behind the home plate netting seemed to blur as the camera moved through as if the set couldn't determine that the net in front of the people was a separate object.

Honestly I don't recall the blurriness on the D6500 but since I don't have a side by side comparison now I am wondering if it was there but I didn't notice it because it was my first HD tv and I was so blown away by the upgrade in general. Does anyone know if the Samsungs typically handle motion better than the Panasonics? Are there settings on the ST50 I can use to stop this? I really enjoy watching football and if motion blur is an issue with this set I will be hugely disappointed come fall. Maybe an E6500 would be an option?
post #2871 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

As far as I'm concerned if there's always something on the screen, different places or not, then it's permanent. I know that's not the true definition of burn-in. I get it. If it fades away over time it's image retention. That doesn't change the fact that if by the time something has faded, something new is someplace else, then, essentially, there's always something on your screen, How is that not permanent? That's the big problem with plasma. Everybody always talks about how it's only temporary, but doesn't like to admit that if it takes days at a time to erase one ghost image then another one appears elsewhere, it's a constant issue you're dealing with. Who cares if it's the same image there forever or if its always something different in different spots - there's still stuff on your screen half the time.

If you cannot see it anywhere but on the slides, not seen on regular programming, then it essentially does not exist.

There's stuff if you watch regular tv programming too and depending on which channel, what type of signal, etc it can be horrid and the tv cannot fix that. In addition, most newer blu ray players can't make old dvds look as good as they did back when they came out and you watched them on a small crt.

It's all relative man, and if you can't wrap your brain around that, and continue to focus on negatives, that can't even be seen with regular content, then you are doomed to be forever unhappy. Not even future tech will make you happy because your expectations will most likely change with it.

I do wonder if your girlfriend is having the same experience that you are, without you showing her the "flaws".
post #2872 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by New to Plasma View Post

I am new to HD (and posting here) as I held onto my Sony 32" tube for 17 years. I mainly watch sports, baseball and basketball now but can't wait for football season in HD. Motion handling and wide angle viewing are important to me so I veered toward plasma instead of LED/LCD. After reading some reviews, the D7000 seemed like a good value but I was concerned about the peeling black filter many had reported so decided to try a D6500 even though I have windows on the side and back of my viewing room. I figured if I could handle watching the old Sony tube in that room that the D6500 wouldn't be any worse as far as reflections went. I was floored after hooking up and watching the D6500 for the first time. Much of that was probably due to the jump from non HD to HD and the giant 59" screen on the D6500. I loved just about everything on that tv. The picture was great and I found myself mesmerized when watching a baseball game with the color and detail. The tv fit snugly inside a cabinet so the rotating stand was also very nice for reaching the inputs without having to pull the tv out each time. However, everyone in the family noticed the BUZZ when about 12' directly in front of the screen. Just a slight move to the side and you didn't notice it anymore. It was still just too distracting to enjoy the set. As it was still within the return window, I attempted to get another of the same model but Amazon was sold out. Since I would have to get a different model altogether, I decided to try a Panasonic as the complaints about buzzing seem to be much less than Samsung. After a little more research, the ST50 looked to be a great value for a 2012 model so I purchased the 60". No buzzing at all which was fantastic. The stand did not swivel which is less than ideal but not a deal breaker. However, when watching baseball the closeups are still very sharp but i've noticed when viewing from the center field camera there is a pronounced image blur around the pitchers shoulders and neck when he starts his pitch. It looks almost like pixelation like the set cannot figure out what is the players body, jersey, hat or the backstop behind home plate. I can also see a double image along his right side. (not just one game but noticed this for several games on several different channels on Uverse.) I tuned the settings to the Cnet recommendations but this didn't change anything with the blurriness. But it does seem to be related to the distance of the player from the camera. Again, closeups are great but players in the middle distance seem to get blurry especially if moving. I also noticed the fans sitting behind the home plate netting seemed to blur as the camera moved through as if the set couldn't determine that the net in front of the people was a separate object.

Honestly I don't recall the blurriness on the D6500 but since I don't have a side by side comparison now I am wondering if it was there but I didn't notice it because it was my first HD tv and I was so blown away by the upgrade in general. Does anyone know if the Samsungs typically handle motion better than the Panasonics? Are there settings on the ST50 I can use to stop this? I really enjoy watching football and if motion blur is an issue with this set I will be hugely disappointed come fall. Maybe an E6500 would be an option?

I don't think the Samsung is any better.. In fact,Panasonic is one of the best if not the best.. Also,consider it might not be the tv at all but the camera filming the game. Watch some other stuff,movies,soccer(I know) lol Nascar.. See if you notice anything similar.. How did you dial in the picture? By eye or a calibration tool?
post #2873 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

No doubt,my lord.. Its probably a good thing the average joe doesn't come onto forums or no company would sell anything. I'm getting my ST50 delivered next week,I'll see how the 3D is,and I'm sure it will be fine,because I'm not expecting a miracle..

Average joes do come here, and often, it's just that they all don't post, and they all don't run slides and/or when they do they don't obsess about them.
post #2874 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Average joes do come here, and often, it's just that they all don't post, and they all don't run slides and/or when they do they don't obsess about them.

LOL true...
post #2875 of 9468
@New to Plasma: Does that happen on all channels when watching baseball? What is your signal source? What mode are you using?

I'd try watching a game on an OTA channel to see if it happens there too.
post #2876 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post

Seriously, you can tell the future and tell me a problem that I've had after 120+ hours will for sure go away? :P

If you repeat the exact same behavior constantly as long as you own your display, then image retention might look like burn-in but in fact you are seeing repetitive IR because you keep exposing the same fixed image to the display.

In your case it's the Netflix pause screen. So if you pause Netflix ten minutes out of every thirty minutes (ignore the numbers) then you will see IR every time you check your screen with the right slides.

In your concern about burn-in, you are in fact abusing yourself. You are further abusing your self when faint images that are not seen when you use your display for it's intended purpose upset you. If you stop repeating the "pause" behavior then the faint image it has left behind will vanish over time. No one can tell you how long that will take, but it will happen.
post #2877 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

@New to Plasma: Does that happen on all channels when watching baseball? What is your signal source?

I'd try watching a game on an OTA channel to see if it happens there too.

That's true,if he has cable or satellite and is getting a bad signal on certain stations that could cause it too. Its not the tv.. I have the same issues. Some stations are pixelated and are unwatchable.. Honestly,I see artifact once in a while and never thought about it twice.. People just gotta calm down and relax a little. Just enjoy your tv and forget about buyers remorse..
post #2878 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

As for 96Hz I agree it's a bit silly for Panasonic not to include it. Admittedly when I had a G20 (2010 model)I watched it on 48Hz because I thought motion looked better. I got used to the flickering and it really only bugged me on bright scenes. 96Hz was a major reason I went for the VT this year and I don't see any flickering on my set.

Alright, here's a stupid question. I just got the Spears and Munsil calibration disc which has a test video for 24p content. I tested it both at 60hz and 48hz, tried to ignore the 48hz strobing and just see what the image itself was supposed to look like. I didn't see any difference at all at 60hz other than the lack of strobing. No moire, no judder, no flickering or whatever, none of the other issues the instructions told me to look for.

So the stupid question: what's the big deal about 48/96hz? I understand that it lets you see 24p content "natively" but if it looks exactly how it's supposed to look at 60hz, what's the practical difference?
post #2879 of 9468
Yep, compression can bring us joy or despair. When it's just right it is oh so good but when it's not we cringe.

We still have SD on Charter's line up and it is horrid. Digital is often better but some stations really screw up the compression, and/or it seems, are still sending out SD programming.
post #2880 of 9468
Quote:
Originally Posted by badasscat View Post

Alright, here's a stupid question. I just got the Spears and Munsil calibration disc which has a test video for 24p content. I tested it both at 60hz and 48hz, tried to ignore the 48hz strobing and just see what the image itself was supposed to look like. I didn't see any difference at all at 60hz other than the lack of strobing. No moire, no judder, no flickering or whatever, none of the other issues the instructions told me to look for.

So the stupid question: what's the big deal about 48/96hz? I understand that it lets you see 24p content "natively" but if it looks exactly how it's supposed to look at 60hz, what's the practical difference?

Some people don't know what it's suppose to look like.
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