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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 156

post #4651 of 9972
How do people like the 3D viewing movies on the ST50?
Seems like the passive 3D (on LG, Visio, Panasonic LCD/LED) is more fun than a barrel of monkies, but otherwise ST50 has better PQ for 2D.
Hoping there is some 3D fun to be had with ST50 too.
post #4652 of 9972
I'm on the same boat as you Frankie, currently I am waiting to purchase to a 55 or 50 st50, If anyone can confirm or deny the oil painting effect in ps3 720p sources it would be much appreciated. It would
Be a deal breaker for me since ps3 gaming is a huge part of what I will be doing on this set.
post #4653 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTBill View Post

How do people like the 3D viewing movies on the ST50?
Seems like the passive 3D (on LG, Visio, Panasonic LCD/LED) is more fun than a barrel of monkies, but otherwise ST50 has better PQ for 2D.
Hoping there is some 3D fun to be had with ST50 too.

Had it came with at least one pair or they were not 80.00 a pair I would have posted my impression.
post #4654 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomess023 View Post

I'm on the same boat as you Frankie, currently I am waiting to purchase to a 55 or 50 st50, If anyone can confirm or deny the oil painting effect in ps3 720p sources it would be much appreciated. It would
Be a deal breaker for me since ps3 gaming is a huge part of what I will be doing on this set.

Try using the search tool up top. use the keywords "ps3", "paint" and/or "smear".
post #4655 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomess023 View Post

I'm on the same boat as you Frankie, currently I am waiting to purchase to a 55 or 50 st50, If anyone can confirm or deny the oil painting effect in ps3 720p sources it would be much appreciated. It would
Be a deal breaker for me since ps3 gaming is a huge part of what I will be doing on this set.

As has been stated numerous times this is not the best set for gaming. Not that the PQ os bad per se but numerous other things.

I can confirm a slight smudge/banding/posterization on my ps3 at 720p. No issues when the signal comes through my Onkyo 818. Hope this helps.
post #4656 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

Had it came with at least one pair or they were not 80.00 a pair I would have posted my impression.

I bought 2 pair of the Panasonic for myself and husband but I bought a bunch of the Samsungs @ $17 for the grandkids and they were fine.
Edited by sheshechic - 8/6/12 at 11:38pm
post #4657 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTBill View Post

How do people like the 3D viewing movies on the ST50?
Seems like the passive 3D (on LG, Visio, Panasonic LCD/LED) is more fun than a barrel of monkies, but otherwise ST50 has better PQ for 2D.
Hoping there is some 3D fun to be had with ST50 too.

The 3D looks fantastic. However, I onky use that function at night and on blu-rays. The cable 3D signals are awful.

Also my TV is in a brightly lit room during the day. Because of this I can see the flockering of e shutters in the sunlight. I only see the shutters in the sunlight.

Great TV. Awesome 3D. I picked up the glasses at $50 on Amazon.
post #4658 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

I believe what you are seeing is posterization.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1328263571

Yes! That is exactly what I an seeing in sources that are in 720p. Thanks for linking that to me.

Now is this a problem with all Panasonic sets? Is anyone able to see this in 720p HD broadcast when their cable box is hooked directly to the TV and not an AVR? It seems like this is a widespread issue but the effect is more severe on different sets. I wouldn't mind if I could see posterization in small icons but I don't want to see it with a full blown game in 720p or an HD 720p broadcast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203 View Post

As has been stated numerous times this is not the best set for gaming. Not that the PQ os bad per se but numerous other things.
I can confirm a slight smudge/banding/posterization on my ps3 at 720p. No issues when the signal comes through my Onkyo 818. Hope this helps.

Ok, so you only see this issue when the PS3 is hooked directly to the TV, correct? You do not see this effect in 720p on PS3 when connected through the Onkyo AVR?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I don't have a PS3 so I used the only source material i had and it was OTA channels 13 and 26(native 720p) here in Houston and did not see any of this so now I wonder if its input related or a defective scaler on your set or the possibility that the PS3 is doing something to the signal that the ST does not like.

You do not see this effect in 720p at all? Look at the foliage and the ground behind the animals (right in front of the foliage).
Edited by Frankie1588 - 8/7/12 at 7:24am
post #4659 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

Yes! That is exactly what I an seeing in sources that are in 720p. Thanks for linking that to me.
Now is this a problem with all Panasonic sets? Is anyone able to see this in 720p HD broadcast when their cable box is hooked directly to the TV and not an AVR? It seems like this is a widespread issue but the effect is more severe on different sets. I wouldn't mind if I could see posterization in small icons but I don't want to see it with a full blown game in 720p or an HD 720p broadcast.
Ok, so you only see this issue when the PS3 is hooked directly to the TV, correct? You do not see this effect in 720p on PS3 when connected through the Onkyo AVR?

100% correct.
post #4660 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

Yes! That is exactly what I an seeing in sources that are in 720p. Thanks for linking that to me.
Now is this a problem with all Panasonic sets? Is anyone able to see this in 720p HD broadcast when their cable box is hooked directly to the TV and not an AVR? It seems like this is a widespread issue but the effect is more severe on different sets. I wouldn't mind if I could see posterization in small icons but I don't want to see it with a full blown game in 720p or an HD 720p broadcast.

This is not what I see with DVD's (480p) and with OTA channels that are native 720p since I can not use my Uverse converts everything to 1080i did not see anything there.
Have you tried other 720p sources to conclude its your TV or strictly the source that is being used I am curious as well since we install a lot of sets and they might hook up an XBox or PS3 at some point.
post #4661 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

This is not what I see with DVD's (480p) and with OTA channels that are native 720p since I can not use my Uverse converts everything to 1080i did not see anything there.
Have you tried other 720p sources to conclude its your TV or strictly the source that is being used I am curious as well since we install a lot of sets and they might hook up an XBox or PS3 at some point.

Is your cable box set to receive 1080i only? You will not see this issue if that is the case. The issue disappears completely when I set my cable box to 1080i only.

It does it with my cable box at 720p AND my PS3 at 720p. I can always set my cable box to 1080i though so its not a problem for the cable box. The PS3 does not have a hardware scaler to do this. The 360 DOES have a hardware scaler so it is not an issue for the 360 either since I can set it to 1080p.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203 View Post

100% correct.

Good to hear. I am considering spending $300 more and getting an AVR. I would rather spend $300 more to get one than spend $200 more on a Samsung E6500. I will get a replacement set first and go from there though. Thanks for your help!

Although, would you mind setting your cable box to 720p only WITHOUT the AVR and tell me if you notice the posterization effect?

Anyone who can also test this issue for me please chime in! Would be much appreciated! I hope to hear as many people say they don't see this issue :P.
post #4662 of 9972
Ok Frankie I just spent the last few minutes comparing OTA ch 26 with Uverse ch 1009 which can sither be set to 720p or 1080p and there is a slight difference but no oil painting and the difference I would chalk up to bit rate giving OTA the edge.
Uverse does not have the advantage of native either all of 720p or all of 1080i but after trying both I am not experiencing what you get now if I had a PS3 I would most certainly try it but my sources are
Oppo BDP-83, OTA ,APPLE TV (1 WHICH IS 720P no issues other than the lower bit rate) and Uverse.
post #4663 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

Is your cable box set to receive 1080i only? You will not see this issue if that is the case. The issue disappears completely when I set my cable box to 1080i only.
It does it with my cable box at 720p AND my PS3 at 720p. I can always set my cable box to 1080i though so its not a problem for the cable box. The PS3 does not have a hardware scaler to do this. The 360 DOES have a hardware scaler so it is not an issue for the 360 either since I can set it to 1080p.
Good to hear. I am considering spending $300 more and getting an AVR. I would rather spend $300 more to get one than spend $200 more on a Samsung E6500. I will get a replacement set first and go from there though. Thanks for your help!
Although, would you mind setting your cable box to 720p only WITHOUT the AVR and tell me if you notice the posterization effect?
Anyone who can also test this issue for me please chime in! Would be much appreciated! I hope to hear as many people say they don't see this issue :P.

Make sure you get an AVR that has an upscaler and video processing otherwise you probably won't see a difference.
post #4664 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203 View Post

Make sure you get an AVR that has an upscaler and video processing otherwise you probably won't see a difference.

Yeah I found a few that people recommended, but I just learned that receivers that upscale also introduce a considerable amount of input lag (some say it will double the amount of your set). So I am not sure if I am able to go that route. I may just try to get a replacement and see if it has the same issue and go from there. Hopefully not!
post #4665 of 9972
Frankie, I have another suggestion- try resetting the tv to original state and then downloading updates to see if it helps. Also, are all your connections via hdmi and how old are those? And just to verify... your connections are direct- nothing in between?

The problem most people report are not associated with 720p but rather 1080i and I don't think the result is posterization, they are saying that it results in a "soft" image. Sooo...
post #4666 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Frankie, I have another suggestion- try resetting the tv to original state and then downloading updates to see if it helps. Also, are all your connections via hdmi and how old are those? And just to verify... your connections are direct- nothing in between?
The problem most people report are not associated with 720p but rather 1080i and I don't think the result is posterization, they are saying that it results in a "soft" image. Sooo...

Yeah, all my connections are directly to the TV via HDMI. Most of the cables are about a year old, but I recently (3 weeks ago) purchased a brand new HDMI cable from Amazon. I tried 2-3 different ones on the PS3 with no difference.

I did download the update on the day I purchased my TV. I will try resetting the TV to its original state when I get home.

EDIT: Here is a picture thanks to ludersven that shows exactly what I am talking about

720p


1080p


This is what you can look for in 720p broadcasts. I really hope its not as obvious in HD broadcasts/gaming as it is here.
Edited by Frankie1588 - 8/7/12 at 11:55am
post #4667 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

Yeah, all my connections are directly to the TV via HDMI. Most of the cables are about a year old, but I recently (3 weeks ago) purchased a brand new HDMI cable from Amazon. I tried 2-3 different ones on the PS3 with no difference.
I did download the update on the day I purchased my TV. I will try resetting the TV to its original state when I get home.
EDIT: Here is a picture thanks to ludersven that shows exactly what I am talking about
720p

1080p

This is what you can look for in 720p broadcasts. I really hope its not as obvious in HD broadcasts/gaming as it is here.

I take it the 720p pic is from your PS3 right?

Where is the 1080p pic coming from? XBOX?
post #4668 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorRican View Post

I take it the 720p pic is from your PS3 right?
Where is the 1080p pic coming from? XBOX?

They are both from the PS3. You can force the PS3 to do 720p or 1080p in the main menu. Unfortunately, you can't do this for games due to a lack of an internal hardware scaler.

I don't mind if that issue is only apparent there and not apparent while gaming or during 720p broadcast. Unfortunately, I can notice it during gaming and 720p broadcast. I am just curious if this posterization is worse on some sets than others. I can notice this effect on 720p broadcast on certain scenes. The effect is gone in 1080i. I am just curious how many people are seeing this effect in 720p. You have to look for it for it to be really noticeable.
post #4669 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

They are both from the PS3. You can force the PS3 to do 720p or 1080p in the main menu. Unfortunately, you can't do this for games due to a lack of an internal hardware scaler.
I don't mind if that issue is only apparent there and not apparent while gaming or during 720p broadcast. Unfortunately, I can notice it during gaming and 720p broadcast. I am just curious if this posterization is worse on some sets than others. I can notice this effect on 720p broadcast on certain scenes. The effect is gone in 1080i. I am just curious how many people are seeing this effect in 720p. You have to look for it for it to be really noticeable.

Let me add something new about your observations about broadcast images- not all are the same quality as they come from the source, and most old programming upgraded (?) & transmitted in 720p & 1080i are often not very good and can look like you're describing and even worse. There's not much we can do about that. One can buy a video processor specifically designed to improve the image or use one built in an avr but there is a limitation to how much they can clean up when it comes to those old programs. If you want to see more opinions about it check the VT50 owners thread. I've just received a Denon 2313 and will check it out as soon as I can get it setup. I bought new speakers and subwoofer, which should arrive by Thursday and so I hope to be able to report something this weekend.
post #4670 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Let me add something new about your observations about broadcast images- not all are the same quality as they come from the source, and most old programming upgraded (?) & transmitted in 720p & 1080i are often not very good and can look like you're describing and even worse. There's not much we can do about that. One can buy a video processor specifically designed to improve the image or use one built in an avr but there is a limitation to how much they can clean up when it comes to those old programs. If you want to see more opinions about it check the VT50 owners thread. I've just received a Denon 2313 and will check it out as soon as I can get it setup. I bought new speakers and subwoofer, which should arrive by Thursday and so I hope to be able to report something this weekend.

The issue doesn't exist at all though in 1080i. It only happens in 720p. I am mostly using the HD broadcast for other people to test to see if the issue is there. The main problem is my PS3's inability to upscale games so I have to unfortunately rely on the TV. I tested the exact situations on another 1080p LCD in the house. It doesn't have ANY of these issues like my ST50 does.

I will likely never own an LCD for myself, but I am curious if this is just one of the unfortunate problems of owning this particular set.

I don't understand how it can be "normal" as you're saying though. I don't see this effect at all on another 1080p LCD in the house no matter what the source is (even in 720p). Are you saying this is normal for plasma? I spoke with someone with an E6500 and he does not have this problem (previously returned an ST50 for this exact reason).

Also, I was ready to purchase an AVR, but I hear the ones that handle upscaling will introduce more input lag. I just can't seem to win! frown.gif

I am not trying to bash the ST50 for any reason. I absolutely would love if I could get rid of this issue because I don't really want to get the E6500 because I hear the ST50 is superior.
Edited by Frankie1588 - 8/7/12 at 1:52pm
post #4671 of 9972
I did notice some minor oil paint effect but only with certain content when setting my box to 720p. On the VT i returned I had this effect on both 720 and 1080i when watching cable content. The effect appeared to be less with 720 on the VT.
post #4672 of 9972
Frankie I will be purchasing the st50 sometimes
This week or next, I will let you know what I see as I do
Considerable ps3 gaming also.

The other guy I Understand when you said this is not for gamig but there really aren't much other 2012 sets that are good for
Gaming either. 2012 Sony LCD have horrible lag and unbearable flashlighting light bleed and clouding. Also they don't hold a candle to the st50 pq.

The hx929 is not worth the price point

The Samsung e6500 I might have to do research on. I have a ex710
Sony which has a good pq but not so great input lag.
post #4673 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomess023 View Post

Frankie I will be purchasing the st50 sometimes
This week or next, I will let you know what I see as I do
Considerable ps3 gaming also.
The other guy I Understand when you said this is not for gamig but there really aren't much other 2012 sets that are good for
Gaming either. 2012 Sony LCD have horrible lag and unbearable flashlighting light bleed and clouding. Also they don't hold a candle to the st50 pq.
The hx929 is not worth the price point
The Samsung e6500 I might have to do research on. I have a ex710
Sony which has a good pq but not so great input lag.

I kind of disagree about this set not being ideal for gaming unless he was referring to those who ONLY game. If someone was to ONLY play video games on this set then I can totally understand this not being the right set because of IR. I watch movies, netflix, HD broadcast, and play video games. Playing video games is a large portion, but that is not ALL I will be doing on the set. I think this is a great set as long as you mix up the content. The picture is fantastic and the input lag (32ms for custom) has not been a problem for me at all. Most of my IR has been from white logos, but it does pass with mixed content.

I don't really want to get an E6500 like I stated previously, but I am not sure if I can live with this issue because most PS3 games ARE in 720p unfortunately.

I am looking forward to your impressions of the issue.
post #4674 of 9972
Does the XBOX do a better job than the PS3?
post #4675 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzzy22 View Post

how do I check hours of use on this set?

There is a way to access this info using the remote, some 2 or 3-key press thing. It has been mentioned on the VT/GT/ST threads so you might try a search.
post #4676 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detonation View Post

Just got my TV recently. One of the first things I've noticed is that the picture doesn't completely fill the screen - there's about an 1/8 inch black gap around the picture. I've adjusted the aspects as well as turned overscan off (HD Size > Size 2) but can't manage to get the picture to fill the entire screen. Is this normal? This is on both antenna and HDMI inputs.
Bump. Can anyone answer this?

It has been discussed before. This is normal. There is a band or area of no pixels of variable width (different from set to set) all around the border of the set.
post #4677 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

The issue doesn't exist at all though in 1080i. It only happens in 720p. I am mostly using the HD broadcast for other people to test to see if the issue is there. The main problem is my PS3's inability to upscale games so I have to unfortunately rely on the TV. I tested the exact situations on another 1080p LCD in the house. It doesn't have ANY of these issues like my ST50 does.
I will likely never own an LCD for myself, but I am curious if this is just one of the unfortunate problems of owning this particular set.
I don't understand how it can be "normal" as you're saying though. I don't see this effect at all on another 1080p LCD in the house no matter what the source is (even in 720p). Are you saying this is normal for plasma? I spoke with someone with an E6500 and he does not have this problem (previously returned an ST50 for this exact reason).
Also, I was ready to purchase an AVR, but I hear the ones that handle upscaling will introduce more input lag. I just can't seem to win! frown.gif
I am not trying to bash the ST50 for any reason. I absolutely would love if I could get rid of this issue because I don't really want to get the E6500 because I hear the ST50 is superior.

Okay, here I go... the upscaler on these TVs (ST, GT, VT) is not as good as they should be. I didn't want to say that to you since we don't know if you're not having other issues and since I can't come over to check it out, and no one is replying with a fix or anything close, I think we have come as far as we can get. I find it a little odd that there aren't more PS3 owner's posting about the same problem unless they've just decided not to play non-HD games ( like some of us have decided when it comes to programming). However, if it were me and I tried all suggestions with no success, then I would either call Panasonic and have them send a tech out or exchange the tv, since I buy through Amazon my first choice would be an exchange.
post #4678 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomess023 View Post

Frankie I will be purchasing the st50 sometimes
This week or next, I will let you know what I see as I do
Considerable ps3 gaming also.
The other guy I Understand when you said this is not for gamig but there really aren't much other 2012 sets that are good for
Gaming either. 2012 Sony LCD have horrible lag and unbearable flashlighting light bleed and clouding. Also they don't hold a candle to the st50 pq.
The hx929 is not worth the price point
The Samsung e6500 I might have to do research on. I have a ex710
Sony which has a good pq but not so great input lag.

I think the Samsung might just be your best bet.
post #4679 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Okay, here I go... the upscaler on these TVs (ST, GT, VT) is not as good as they should be. I didn't want to say that to you since we don't know if you're not having other issues and since I can't come over to check it out, and no one is replying with a fix or anything close, I think we have come as far as we can get. I find it a little odd that there aren't more PS3 owner's posting about the same problem unless they've just decided not to play non-HD games ( like some of us have decided when it comes to programming). However, if it were me and I tried all suggestions with no success, then I would either call Panasonic and have them send a tech out or exchange the tv, since I buy through Amazon my first choice would be an exchange.

Honestly the effect I'm seeing isn't terrible. When in-game it's barely noticeable.
post #4680 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203 View Post

Honestly the effect I'm seeing isn't terrible. When in-game it's barely noticeable.

Thank you for saying so. My gripe is with programming since all the channels with Charter in my area aren't all digital yet and MSNBC and a few other favorites are in that "zone". I can't stand it, it does look better on my lcd and 42G25 though.

Which begs me to comment that those coming from smaller tvs and/or lcd might find it even more offensive depending on how close they sit and what they're using the tv for.
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