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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 218

post #6511 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

One of the issues with these media players is not many support 3D. Does the Asus? I know the WDTV doesn't.

hmmm.....I havent tried that yet.....I did read someone plugged a usb into their st50 and played a 3d movie.....but that was a SBS 3D rip....

I suppose all medai players could play the same type of file....

But true 3D blu ray movies.....I dont know if it would...it probably wont in fact because I dont think it has 1.4a hdmi

Its not a big deal for me tho....Movies like Avatar 3D I just buy the bluray and play it thru my panny BD player 210
post #6512 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by grik View Post

Never tried 3D movies .mkv but i digged a bit on google and it says its capable, not sure the quality standards that it outputs.
I find the present 3D useless and outdated. It uses the same tech as it did 30 years ago (i actualy saw movies in disney 25 years ago in the present format), its pure marketing not pleasant experience. I bought ST50 not for the 3D i will never use it for sure.

Sorry but I disagree, it's not useless if done correctly. There are alot of movies presented in 3D format that are actually a pleasure to watch. Maybe your past experience (25 years ago) of 3D technology wasn't as good as it is now.
post #6513 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricST View Post

What are you thinking of getting instead?

I have absolutely no idea....after reading about Panasonic's $ losses over the last few years,rumours of Sony and Panasonic merging to chase the OLED market and/or closing plants in China and scaling back Plasma builds I really am lost as to what to get. Samsung apparently has posted on it's website their problems with Plasma and LG has never really won me over....truly at a loss about what to buy.
post #6514 of 9972
What did Samsung post, can I get a link to it as am really interested because I am sending my ST50 back and at a loss of what to do?
post #6515 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

One of the issues with these media players is not many support 3D. Does the Asus? I know the WDTV doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_mash View Post

hmmm.....I havent tried that yet.....I did read someone plugged a usb into their st50 and played a 3d movie.....but that was a SBS 3D rip....
I suppose all medai players could play the same type of file....
But true 3D blu ray movies.....I dont know if it would...it probably wont in fact because I dont think it has 1.4a hdmi
Its not a big deal for me tho....Movies like Avatar 3D I just buy the bluray and play it thru my panny BD player 210

I know not everyone might have luck with PS3 Media Server, but I have been using it with my wired home network with 3D SBS 1080P mkv (file size of ~10GB) with no lag. It does require some setup and tweaking, but it's been working great with me with great picture quality (no PS3 needed). Possibly an option to try out if you have time.

I'll have to check what my link speed is on my router when I get a chance to see if I'm connected at 10Mb or 100Mb. I'm pretty sure I'm connected at the full 100Mb because the server software reports the max bandwidth used at any given time and it peaked at around 80.
post #6516 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by troyerco View Post

I know not everyone might have luck with PS3 Media Server, but I have been using it with my wired home network with 3D SBS 1080P mkv (file size of ~10GB) with no lag. It does require some setup and tweaking, but it's been working great with me with great picture quality (no PS3 needed). Possibly an option to try out if you have time.
I'll have to check what my link speed is on my router when I get a chance to see if I'm connected at 10Mb or 100Mb. I'm pretty sure I'm connected at the full 100Mb because the server software reports the max bandwidth used at any given time and it peaked at around 80.

Cool.

I actually have a gigabit (1000MB) switch that everything is wired to so I will have to check it some more too and read the directions to see what the color means, as well as try it out with a new cable so I can be sure it's not a cable issue.

I'm currently using the WMP11 built in functionality, so maybe that is also a downside? I will look into using the PS3 media server too.

FWIW, I also have a PS3 hooked to my TV and if I could get it to stream directly to that, that would be just as good with me. However I know that PS3 can't play MKV files straight up, but maybe with this PS3 Media Server it can play them.

EDIT:

I was just googling the PMS and found the link to the homepage and reading the FAQ here:

http://www.ps3mediaserver.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3507#p15382

It looks like that is a good piece of software and I will give it a go if I have time tonight, but definitely before the weekend is over. Thanks man!
post #6517 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fretsey View Post

I have absolutely no idea....after reading about Panasonic's $ losses over the last few years,rumours of Sony and Panasonic merging to chase the OLED market and/or closing plants in China and scaling back Plasma builds I really am lost as to what to get. Samsung apparently has posted on it's website their problems with Plasma and LG has never really won me over....truly at a loss about what to buy.
I know that everyone will scoff. Vizio has come a long way. They have gotten better and better and are made in America. A friend of mine has a 46" and I was impressed. It gets a great picture. Just sayin...
post #6518 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I know that everyone will scoff. Vizio has come a long way. They have gotten better and better and are made in America. A friend of mine has a 46" and I was impressed. It gets a great picture. Just sayin...

"Made in America"? No. US company yes. Think Apple, "designed in the United States" but made in various plants around the world, especially China.
post #6519 of 9972
Let's please keep this thread focused guys.
post #6520 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

I've got a question about streaming videos to this TV from your PC. Yesterday I finally finished up my Cat5e wiring of my house and plugged my TV into it.
The first thing I noticed was that I believe the TV was only getting 10MB instead of 100MB on my switch. At least I think I was. I noticed the color of the light on my switch for the port that had my TV connected to it was a different color than all of the other lights on my switch. It was like a yellow color instead of the normal green.
I do know the network cable I was using is an old beat up one, which could be the culprit of why it's not getting the full speed, but I did find this odd initially. However it was 12:30am and I was tired so I didn't want to really find another cable.
I had a copy of The Walking Dead from this past Sunday on my PC, as a 720p mpg that I created from using mkv2vob to convert the mkv file of the show.
I then shared the file on my PC and added it to Windows Media Player.
On the TV I could see it no problem and played it on my TV. While I only watched it for about 5 minutes because I was tired, I definitely noticed that it was not 720p quality. It just seemed the quality took a hit of some sort.
Is there something special you have to do to get the full HD quality when streaming a video from your PC? Could it be because my TV was not connected at the full speed of the switch that it should have been? Is there some setting on the TV to make it a faster speed, or is it limited at the slower speed?
I'm just trying to figure out exactly how to get this working properly, so thanks!

LOL ... I realized something so stupid when I read the manual for the switch.

The cable I used to test this is like over 8 years old. Chances are it does not get cat5e speeds so it is falling back to normal 100mb speeds heh.

So once I get the rest of my project done and can mount it with my cat5e cables (don't have one long enough for its current condition) I'm pretty sure it will be at full gigabit speeds.
post #6521 of 9972
I have about 1000 hours on my ST50 and it is still suffering from short term IR. If I have anything static bright image displayed for half minute or even much less, it takes couple minutes to clear watching moving picture. Does that sound normal at this stage?
Mine has been doing that since after first100 hours. It also has vertical line on the right side which is common. I have been running it contrast setting only at 50% so it has never been on any torch modes and I have watched only full screen programs to avoid permanent burn.

I just got reply from Panasonic support telling me that this is not normal and that my set should be sent to service. I sent email to their support long time ago when my set was new and I never heard back from them until now. I first thought that they ignored my support request because this is known feature. I would not want to go thru trouble sending my TV to service center only to get it back with replaced screen having the same or even worse problems than it has now. I tried asking support if there is improved version available now but they were not aware any improvements or that there is so called -2 model I see mentioned here.

I'm puzzled what to do. As my set is already few months old it will not be replaced with new one but they probably will just replace the panel. I will be done by small local repair shop. I suppose it would need some basic factory calibration adjustments done when the panel is replaced but I seriously doubt small repair shops have such equipment and I'm afraid I may end up getting new panel wth old problem plus some extra nuisanse due to incomplete adjustments. Does anyone know what steps panel replacement exactly requires? Also I'm open to all suggestions what I should do and is it possible that all TV's suffering from short term IR are simply faulty?
post #6522 of 9972
That sucks man.

I can tell you from my own personal experience that I am not seeing any IR after normal usage and my TV completed the 100hr panel prep last Friday. I've probably used it like 25 hours or so since then, and I've watched shows with the watermarks in the corner of the screen, and they aren't even noticeable during the commercial breaks.
post #6523 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

I have about 1000 hours on my ST50 and it is still suffering from short term IR. If I have anything static bright image displayed for half minute or even much less, it takes couple minutes to clear watching moving picture. Does that sound normal at this stage?
Mine has been doing that since after first100 hours. It also has vertical line on the right side which is common. I have been running it contrast setting only at 50% so it has never been on any torch modes and I have watched only full screen programs to avoid permanent burn.
I just got reply from Panasonic support telling me that this is not normal and that my set should be sent to service. I sent email to their support long time ago when my set was new and I never heard back from them until now. I first thought that they ignored my support request because this is known feature. I would not want to go thru trouble sending my TV to service center only to get it back with replaced screen having the same or even worse problems than it has now. I tried asking support if there is improved version available now but they were not aware any improvements or that there is so called -2 model I see mentioned here.
I'm puzzled what to do. As my set is already few months old it will not be replaced with new one but they probably will just replace the panel. I will be done by small local repair shop. I suppose it would need some basic factory calibration adjustments done when the panel is replaced but I seriously doubt small repair shops have such equipment and I'm afraid I may end up getting new panel wth old problem plus some extra nuisanse due to incomplete adjustments. Does anyone know what steps panel replacement exactly requires? Also I'm open to all suggestions what I should do and is it possible that all TV's suffering from short term IR are simply faulty?

definitely doesn't sound normal. I'm on about 400-500 hours maybe even more and no hint of IR
post #6524 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fretsey View Post

I have absolutely no idea....after reading about Panasonic's $ losses over the last few years,rumours of Sony and Panasonic merging to chase the OLED market and/or closing plants in China and scaling back Plasma builds I really am lost as to what to get. Samsung apparently has posted on it's website their problems with Plasma and LG has never really won me over....truly at a loss about what to buy.

I'm afraid you are stuck in what I call "maybe I should wait till tomorrow" syndrome. I was too... it is common with fields like electronics where the technology is moving so fast no matter what you buy something better is already on the drawing board and will hit the streets any day now. Now you can accept that's how things are or endless worry about it and never update and be stuck with whatever you currently have. Will plasma technology be surpassed by OLED? Maybe and maybe soon. That said something for sure will surpass OLED and something will surpass that and so on and so on.
post #6525 of 9972
All right can someone clear up what is the best way to have flawless streaming of HD to the TV? I am sure the port on the ST50 is not a gigbit, but if I connect the TV through ethernet and then have a PC connected through ethernet cable is that the best? what if my laptop is on a wireless but the TV wired -- would that work? Also, I have to buy a new router so I cannot figure out what best to put money into. A router which supports N, but also has a USB so that I can attach a pin/hard drive, but then the router would need to be DLNA certified in order for the TV to see and play from the drive attached to the router? It is all a it mess for me... A[[reciate if anyone can shed some light on this.
post #6526 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post

All right can someone clear up what is the best way to have flawless streaming of HD to the TV? I am sure the port on the ST50 is not a gigbit, but if I connect the TV through ethernet and then have a PC connected through ethernet cable is that the best? what if my laptop is on a wireless but the TV wired -- would that work? Also, I have to buy a new router so I cannot figure out what best to put money into. A router which supports N, but also has a USB so that I can attach a pin/hard drive, but then the router would need to be DLNA certified in order for the TV to see and play from the drive attached to the router? It is all a it mess for me... A[[reciate if anyone can shed some light on this.

Honestly i wouldnt hesitate, just get an hdmi solution near by the TV. Iv tried the streaming and it sucks, as a media options this TV sucks real hard for the year 2012 that we are at. My 5 year old samsung worked better as a media player.
Iv tried PS3 Media Center software and others but all with non satisfatory results. Big bitrate movies got stuck and even the small ep series show have a bit of non-smooth feeling.

I solved all this getting a simpels 60$ Oplay Mini i connect pens and HD directly to the small and light (very transportable to any tv) connected to hdmi and it reads everything as smooth as it can get (iv tested with 16Gb bluray rips with high video bitrate and its flawless). Just give it a try and you will see the diference using a direct HDMI device solution instead of the streaming solution. If you dont like just return it and get the money.
post #6527 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post

All right can someone clear up what is the best way to have flawless streaming of HD to the TV? I am sure the port on the ST50 is not a gigbit, but if I connect the TV through ethernet and then have a PC connected through ethernet cable is that the best? what if my laptop is on a wireless but the TV wired -- would that work? Also, I have to buy a new router so I cannot figure out what best to put money into. A router which supports N, but also has a USB so that I can attach a pin/hard drive, but then the router would need to be DLNA certified in order for the TV to see and play from the drive attached to the router? It is all a it mess for me... A[[reciate if anyone can shed some light on this.

I can only relate my own experience... I got a Netgear 3700 wireless router, which is one of their higher end consumer grade routers, about $180 street. It has 4 ethernet ports. I have WOW cable for both Internet access and tv, seperate cables come up through the basement, one off a splitter goes to the big tv in the family room, another cable plugs into the router in the den which is split off again to also feed another tv in same room.

Now I've heard lots of BS that ethernet is fast (well sort of) and it beats wireless hands down as far as throughput. My experience for what I'm doing, big yawn. My main PC in the den is connected to the router via ethernet. I also purchased a Qnap NAS which I'm in the process of moving all my multimedia files too...several TB's worth., so they are available on my home network regardless if the PC is on or not, since I'm keeping the router always on. The original "fun" part was coping files from my PC to the NAS. Because the PC is connected to the router with ethernet and the NAS to the router with ethernet I thought copying the files would be bing, bang, and done. No. In spite of all the claims Qnap made, actual real world data transfer using this method was painfully slow. Something on average between 30-40 MG a second. Which isn't really slow, but not as fast as I thought it would be so took many hours. That's a one time thing, so not a big deal.

Now how it works real world. I have loads of images in JPEG format, the same for music in MP3 format and also thousands of video files typically in MPEG-2 or MPG-4 format. What's more important isn't the format, but the bitrate which both determines how big a file they are and the viewing quality. Well using either my Panasonic ST50 tv through it's DLNA feature (using a media server) or another tv on the network or a cellphone or tablet these videos stream flawlessly so far no stutter or any playback issue all going wireless. I had originally planned on running a ethernet cable from my router in the den to the big screen tv in the family room thinking it would be needed, but now testing it real world don't really see the point. Oh, the bitrate of the vids is typicall 8-9 megabits a second which is good quality. So while the tv has ethernet and USB inputs it works perfectly well for my needs using wireless as do all the other devices I've tried.
post #6528 of 9972
I haven't seen too many people getting calibrations yet. I'm getting my ST50 calibrated Sunday, and I will share the experience and settings for all.

I did the DNice 100 hr slide process, so anyone else who did will have another settings choice to choose from that may benefit their picture.
post #6529 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by grik View Post

Honestly i wouldnt hesitate, just get an hdmi solution near by the TV. Iv tried the streaming and it sucks, as a media options this TV sucks real hard for the year 2012 that we are at. My 5 year old samsung worked better as a media player.
Iv tried PS3 Media Center software and others but all with non satisfatory results. Big bitrate movies got stuck and even the small ep series show have a bit of non-smooth feeling.
I solved all this getting a simpels 60$ Oplay Mini i connect pens and HD directly to the small and light (very transportable to any tv) connected to hdmi and it reads everything as smooth as it can get (iv tested with 16Gb bluray rips with high video bitrate and its flawless). Just give it a try and you will see the diference using a direct HDMI device solution instead of the streaming solution. If you dont like just return it and get the money.

Yes, well the working option would be to have my laptop next to the tv and use HDMI. The thing is I need to turn the laptop on every time I want to watch a video.. and also my laptop's screen resolution is not 1080p. So when I connect through HDMI the resolution of the tv drops. So not sure if HD video is displayed the best way possible if the TV acts as a monitor with lower than 1080p resolution
post #6530 of 9972
In summary, I ordered a new 50" ST50 from Amazon and it came with IR from factory, apparently someone left the Service Menu for quite a long time and it never went away. I noticed it when I started doing the slides without ever going to that menu myself. Also, the buzzing sound was annoying, could hear it from 20 feet away. So I returned it and got a replacement. I'm quoting myself from the image retention thread to get a little more exposure on my issue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrrad721 View Post

I received my replacement 50" ST50 a few days ago. I finished the slides and the buzzing is still there, altough it is slightly less. The image retention seems pretty evident though. For example, if I'm at the Menu calibrating it and then turn on the PS3, I can see the Menu settings all over the place. I can also see it whenever a BD displays their Warnings before the movie menu comes up. They do get away after a few minutes though, but I find it pretty distracting and unacceptable for a TV to retain images so quickly and I haven't even started gaming. I can see the IR at viewing distance (8.5 ft). My question is, is this IR behavior that common throughout these sets? Have you guys experienced this also?

I have to add, I'm willing to give it a third try as the image quality and black levels are incredible and would not settle for less right now after experiencing it.
post #6531 of 9972
Kurt,

if you really want quality on your films just spend the 60$ on that oplay mini (or any other, i can only vouch for this one its hardcore player it even reads .ISO video files lol), its very portable and it as a remote too. You just need a Hdmi cable that doesnt come with the pack. Many friends of mine used that PC hdmi way to watch films they abandoned the very moment i went with the oplay to there place and played the films threw it. Its a best buy, if you dont like just return the money. Dont forget to upgrade de firmware when you buy it.
Edited by grik - 10/26/12 at 7:57am
post #6532 of 9972
Well the Best Buy delivery service just picked up my 60 ST that I am returning due to the big green tint in the middle of screen on any white or grey scene and a dark line that appeared on right side of screen after about 75 hours of running test slides and watching it.

For what its worth when the delivery guys showed up to get it they said they needed to inspect the TV for damage before accepting it. They did not turn the TV on but they did unbox it and take it out in the sunlight and looked over every square inch of it especially the screen. Both of the guys were pretty quick to remark that something was indeed wrong with my screen (remember they did not even turn it on). They said the center looked cloudy and miscolored. I asked them if they were serious and the reassured me that the look at screens all the time and that mine did not look normal.

So I feel better about sending it back now after going back and fourth on whether or not I should have just kept it and hoped the problem would dissipate (as some have said it could).

Will be making another purchase this weekend. It will either be another 60 ST or the Samsung 60 E6500, not sure which one to try just yet.
post #6533 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post

Yes, well the working option would be to have my laptop next to the tv and use HDMI. The thing is I need to turn the laptop on every time I want to watch a video.. and also my laptop's screen resolution is not 1080p. So when I connect through HDMI the resolution of the tv drops. So not sure if HD video is displayed the best way possible if the TV acts as a monitor with lower than 1080p resolution

What actually matters is the encoded resolution and bit depth of the FILE, not the device feeding it. What I use to do before getting my ST50 was play some quite old vids on CD's made in the 90's on my DVD player that up-converted to a higher resolution and my older plasma handled it pretty well. Now just for fun I tried the same thing, (not the CD, just streaming the source file via DLNA) and the new tv did a decent job up-converting. For sure not as good as DVD and obviously not HD, but considering, not bad.
post #6534 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrrad721 View Post

In summary, I ordered a new 50" ST50 from Amazon and it came with IR from factory, apparently someone left the Service Menu for quite a long time and it never went away. I noticed it when I started doing the slides without ever going to that menu myself. Also, the buzzing sound was annoying, could hear it from 20 feet away. So I returned it and got a replacement. I'm quoting myself from the image retention thread to get a little more exposure on my issue:
I have to add, I'm willing to give it a third try as the image quality and black levels are incredible and would not settle for less right now after experiencing it.

Hmm... I'm beginning to wonder if there is some association with those experincing buzz/hum and running slides for hundreds of hours. Just maybe could be a self induced issue. As I said several times I'm no fan of "slides", nobody yet as offered even a shread of evidence WHY they use them other than follow the leader nonsense, but is hardly scientifically valid. The idea based on what I read here and elsewhere is the speed up the "break-in" or aging process in some effort to get the set "ready" for calibration BUT, that simply isn't valid. In fact I would speculate it MIGHT do more harm than good. Under normal operation no tv is going to display hundreds of hours of nothing but a screen full of one of the prime colors followed by another in some endless cycle. Forcing a tv to do that (specualtion) I would assume stresses the set most likely causing it to drawn more power (wild guess) which might in effect cause hair line cracking in one or more of the transformers or coils on the power supply board, thus oh no... buzzing. Now I can't prove any of this, but again I go back to my original premesis that using slides accomplises nothing other than wasting your time. Show me the beef. Somebody PROVE scientifically using slides does X. Interesting that I have not used slides, never would, and guess what, no hum or buzzing.
post #6535 of 9972
Same level of buzzing was there before and during the slides. I see the slides with two pros: getting it calibrated and watching for screen uniformity issues. Also, there is vertical banding present, just like my older set. It's having the same issues I experienced before minus the IR of the Service Menu. I went to Best Buy and popped the Menu on the one they had on the floor and I could see a slight IR on the set after the Menu went off during normal playback. So I guess this is something common. I peeked behind it and could hear buzzing as well even with the store noise.

I should've added that the replacement was built in August and the one returned was from September. So different batches, same issues. frown.gif
Edited by lyrrad721 - 10/26/12 at 9:29am
post #6536 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisFreak View Post

What did Samsung post, can I get a link to it as am really interested because I am sending my ST50 back and at a loss of what to do?

Here is a link I found regarding Samsung Plasma

http://www.prlog.org/11873557-samsung-plasma-tv-problems-released-by-samsung-smart-tv-reviews.html

Panasonic stops production at 2 plants

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1320237339

Sony and Panasonic partnership for OLED

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/25/sony-panasonic-oled-partnership-is-official-aims-for-mass-prod/
post #6537 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

I'm afraid you are stuck in what I call "maybe I should wait till tomorrow" syndrome. I was too... it is common with fields like electronics where the technology is moving so fast no matter what you buy something better is already on the drawing board and will hit the streets any day now. Now you can accept that's how things are or endless worry about it and never update and be stuck with whatever you currently have. Will plasma technology be surpassed by OLED? Maybe and maybe soon. That said something for sure will surpass OLED and something will surpass that and so on and so on.

I hear what you are saying and have accepted that whatever electronics you buy they are "almost obsolete" by the time you get it home.
My main worry now is Who can I trust,not necessarily what's "cutting edge" or "where is TV tech headed"...I am more concerned with quality control for what I can buy today..
post #6538 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I know that everyone will scoff. Vizio has come a long way. They have gotten better and better and are made in America. A friend of mine has a 46" and I was impressed. It gets a great picture. Just sayin...

I have seen some really good reviews for Vizio.....I wouldn't scoff at you for suggesting it,clearly the "Big Names" aren't pulling their weight wink.gif

I would buy something made by Tonka or PlaySkool or a Sesame Street branded TV if the reviews and quality supported the purchase....lol smile.gif
Edited by fretsey - 10/26/12 at 10:07am
post #6539 of 9972
Has anyone had any luck connecting a Macbook Air (2011) to their ST30 via an hdmi-thunderblot adapter? The Air recognizes my Panasonic but my Panasonic simply says "no signal detected."

I did get my Air to connect and display on the Samsung (?) at work through the same adapter and hdmi cable with nice results for streaming movies.
post #6540 of 9972
Just because they had a show on last night on how they make these beauties for those that have money to burn, here's one of the most impressive and expensive plasma tvs you can buy.

This 103 inch monster comes with a motorized stand... of course, and is made in Finland. Set you back a bit over $111,000 in American dollars. Has a lead time of four months and is completely hand built and of course calibratated at the factory. Shipping extra, but if you're gfoing to invest over $100K in a tv what's another $1,000 or so for shipping. smile.gif

Perfect if you want bragging rights. The cheapskate Mark Cuban (the billionaire on Shark tank ABC Fridays) bought a watered down version for $40K less.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/06/bang-and-olufsens-beovision-4-103-inch-plasma-on-sale-in-usa-93/
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