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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 226

post #6751 of 9972
Hi all, anyone with a 65" that can give the measurement of the base?
post #6752 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soxfan111111 View Post

Audio question.
Have 60" st50 and Samsung hte6500 htib.
Trying to get audio from TV Internet apps to htib. Have hdmi cable running out from htib to hdmi arc input of tv. No audio. Any idea why not?

Hi Soxfan111111, just note both HTIB and Tv has to support ARC to pass audio from Tv to HTIB. Does your HTIB have ARC (Audio Return Channel)? If not then connect an optical cable from Tv "Digital Audio out" to HTIB.
post #6753 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mishima View Post

If the only time you are noticing an issue is when you are running slides then there is nothing wrong with your set.

Old joke... Guy goes into his doctor's office, says Doc, if I raise my arm and wave it around quick like this it hurts. Doc says, well don't do that and I bet it will stop hurting!

This whole slide thing is over the top. If you forced your kid to run in place non stop for an hour, if the neighbors saw you they might call the police and you'd possibly be up on child abuse charges. Forcing a tv into some fanciful "stress test" in some lame attempt to "age" the set to "get it ready" for a calibration is well, goofy.
post #6754 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

There IS a standard calibrators shoot for, so personal preference should not be a factor. Calibrators will also calibrate to compensate for ambient lighting if need be. The only thing that is somewhat of a personal preference, is gamma.
Calibrators do vary in quality, and equipment used is also very important. But there are many great calibrators out there... you just have to do your research. I do agree that GeekSquad is a crapshoot and more times than not, they are not very good.

Errors are reported using various delta formulas; anything below 3 is considered unnoticeable to the human eye. Every single set on the market has errors above 5-7 out of the box and usually far worse. The human eye is a bad tool to measure color and luminance, and tweaking your set will only get you so far. Not everyone is as lenient as the next when it comes to picture quality. Some will settle for nothing less, whether it be a pro calibration, or purchasing your own equipment. Either way will produce better results than tweaking by eye.
If I recall correctly, you're the same one saying that HDMI cables make a difference. The FACT of the matter is, a pro calibration will make far more of a difference than any HDMI cable would.
And in regards to running slides. There is no proof that they cause the buzzing in plasmas. I think you're also unaware of the main purpose of running them. D-Nice uses the slides so that everyone can prep their panels the same way that he prepped his reference panel. This will at least remove one variable, because how a plasma has been used during the first 100-150 hours affects the picture when it has somewhat settled. What I do agree with, is that it's a waste of time to run them, IF you're not using D-Nice's settings.

Oh please... I have over 50, that's FIFTY years experience messing with all kinds of electronic equipment starting when I was a kid, everything from ham radio, to all manor of electronic gadgets, including main frame computers, to tv's including building one from scratch and for sure some of the crap posted here and elsewhere makes me roar with laughter. I don't usually respond to Stawman comments, like you trying to suggest I said getting a better quality HDMI cable is better than a calibration. Get serious.

The point about the slides is there is NO POINT in running them. That's call FACT. If you can dispute it, then supply some facts, not just opinion. The idea you're suggesting is laughable. Person A tellling others hey do this and your set will be the same as my reference set is commical and shows ignorance on the part of the person offering such advice especially if said person is suppose to be a "professional" calibrator, whatever that's suppose to be.

The FACT is all sets off the assembly line are a tad different. As I explained before this is in part due to the components having relatively loose tolerances. Guess what, just running the set for a hundred hours or so with NORMAL VIEWING will break in the set, the parts will stabilize, but that can't and won't alter what that particular set settings should be. To think it could or will is silly. So is the "getting ready" comment. Getting ready for what? The whole point of doing a calibration is altering settings from X to Y. The wait for anywhere from 100-500 hours BEFORE doing a calibration is valid for the reasons I stated, to allow componets stabilize, but for anyone thinking running colored slides does anything simply watching the tv would also do I have a bridge in New York you might want to make an offer on.

Now some FACTS on so-called "professional" calibration. It all depends on who comes to your home and what tools he brings and if he knows how to properly use them. He should bring a pattern generator, sometimes called a signal generator. A good one USED costs at least $1,000. He'll also need a pro grade light meter. Again good ones are expensive. VERY expensive, thousands. Then there's the software. Calman and a couple others are the most often used. That isn't cheap either.

Lets be brutally honest. While for sure there are some skilled, certified experienced people that do calibration, the odds of you finding one are slim. The typical guy doing calibrations is somebody trying to earn a few extra bucks, probably knows barely more than you do on the topic, will bring some cheap light meter or if he brings a better one bet the farm the light meter has never itself been calibrated the guy wouldn't know how to if his life depended on it. So this guy does the calibration, the readings are far from accurate, still he adjusts your set to these lame reading, he gives you a report with pretty color charts and your wallet is thiner by several hundred dollars.

As far as your comments on Delta scores, hate to break the bad news to you, that too has a large BS factor. The ST series while a fairly expensive set, is NOT the top of the line. There's two models above it. This is one of those read the fine print times. When it comes to calibration how good a result you get also depends on WHAT can be adjusted. Take gray scale which is a very important setting. The ST series only has two levels. The two higher Panasonic models have a 10 step grayscale. In fact Calman has a feature where it can be plugged directly into the Panasonic and automaticlly make adjustment changes through software. Trying to calibrate a ST50 you're trying to tweak the settings by messing for example with the high and low settings in the pro settings menu by prime color adding or taking away from the white value. Not as effective.

Finally while light meters are for sure more accurate than the human eye and can detect trivial differences we can't both in color and luminance I got a simple question. Did you buy your tv for some fancy light meter or are YOU going to be the actually watching it using your eyes?
post #6755 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi all, anyone with a 65" that can give the measurement of the base?
'''

The base is 23.5 wide and 15.5 inches deep... North American version.
post #6756 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

Oh please... I have over 50, that's FIFTY years experience messing with all kinds of electronic equipment starting when I was a kid, everything from ham radio, to all manor of electronic gadgets, including main frame computers, to tv's including building one from scratch and for sure some of the crap posted here and elsewhere makes me roar with laughter.
I couldn't care less how much "experience" you have. You're an amateur, simply put. You're arguing against professionals that have FAR more ACTUAL experience than you EVER had, period. I guess a 30-year cook at McDonalds is a better cook than a 5-year chef at a 5-star restaurant. smile.gif
Quote:
I don't usually respond to Stawman comments, like you trying to suggest I said getting a better quality HDMI cable is better than a calibration. Get serious.
You're making it sound like pro calibrations aren't worth it, yet you say HDMI cables make a difference. So in a way, you are saying that a quality HDMI cable is better than a calibration. No a pro calibration isn't worth it for everyone, but the fact of the matter is, ANY set on the market will benefit from a pro calibration. Whether the owner of the set sees the difference or not is the question. Just because you don't think a pro calibration is worth it, doesn't mean that it isn't to someone else. Again, not everyone is as lenient when it comes to PQ.
Quote:
The point about the slides is there is NO POINT in running them. That's call FACT. If you can dispute it, then supply some facts, not just opinion. The idea you're suggesting is laughable. Person A tellling others hey do this and your set will be the same as my reference set is commical and shows ignorance on the part of the person offering such advice especially if said person is suppose to be a "professional" calibrator, whatever that's suppose to be.
How is it a fact? Can you prove it? No, because you have no equipment to take measurements. Spectroradiometers or even colorimeters are far more accurate than the human eye is, and it has been proven that plasmas drift at a faster rate during the first 100-200 hours of use, and how the TV is used during this time has an affect (albeit minor) on how the TV performs once it settles. Make no mistake, I don't mean that it will make your set perform better, it will just remove one variable. You are obviously completely unaware of the purpose of the slides, and you ignored my reasoning above. Once again, you're basically saying that one of the most respected calibrators in the world (D-Nice) is wrong. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
The FACT is all sets off the assembly line are a tad different. As I explained before this is in part due to the components having relatively loose tolerances.
Yes, when have I said otherwise?
Quote:
Now some FACTS on so-called "professional" calibration. It all depends on who comes to your home and what tools he brings and if he knows how to properly use them. He should bring a pattern generator, sometimes called a signal generator. A good one USED costs at least $1,000. He'll also need a pro grade light meter. Again good ones are expensive. VERY expensive, thousands. Then there's the software. Calman and a couple others are the most often used. That isn't cheap either.
Yes, all quality professionals have expensive meters and usually have signal generators. Something you DON'T have, yet are arguing against these professionals.
Quote:
As far as your comments on Delta scores, hate to break the bad news to you, that too has a large BS factor. The ST series while a fairly expensive set, is NOT the top of the line. There's two models above it. This is one of those read the fine print times. When it comes to calibration how good a result you get also depends on WHAT can be adjusted. Take gray scale which is a very important setting. The ST series only has two levels. The two higher Panasonic models have a 10 step grayscale. In fact Calman has a feature where it can be plugged directly into the Panasonic and automaticlly make adjustment changes through software. Trying to calibrate a ST50 you're trying to tweak the settings by messing for example with the high and low settings in the pro settings menu by prime color adding or taking away from the white value. Not as effective.
Doesn't matter what controls the ST50 doesn't have, the grayscale can still be calibrated to < 3 deltaE, even with a simple 2pt system. In fact, most decent display can. And the ST50 doesn't have a Color Management System, but dE94 is still under 3 once the grayscale has been calibrated and by simply using the Color control. The VT50 by comparison, can be calibrated to dEuv and dE94 of <1. This has been shown in calibration reports by pros. I myself have calibrated my ST50 to an average dE of ~1.6. Don't tell me what the ST50 is and isn't capable of, when you don't have any measuring equipment.
Quote:
Finally while light meters are for sure more accurate than the human eye and can detect trivial differences we can't both in color and luminance I got a simple question. Did you buy your tv for some fancy light meter or are YOU going to be the actually watching it using your eyes?
I bought a fancy light meter because calibration interests me and so that I can calibrate all of my displays so that I can enjoy them. What's your point?
Edited by rahzel - 11/3/12 at 1:16pm
post #6757 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post


Now some FACTS on so-called "professional" calibration. It all depends on who comes to your home and what tools he brings and if he knows how to properly use them. He should bring a pattern generator, sometimes called a signal generator. A good one USED costs at least $1,000. He'll also need a pro grade light meter. Again good ones are expensive. VERY expensive, thousands. Then there's the software. Calman and a couple others are the most often used. That isn't cheap either.
Lets be brutally honest. While for sure there are some skilled, certified experienced people that do calibration, the odds of you finding one are slim. The typical guy doing calibrations is somebody trying to earn a few extra bucks, probably knows barely more than you do on the topic, will bring some cheap light meter or if he brings a better one bet the farm the light meter has never itself been calibrated the guy wouldn't know how to if his life depended on it. So this guy does the calibration, the readings are far from accurate, still he adjusts your set to these lame reading, he gives you a report with pretty color charts and your wallet is thiner by several hundred dollars.

I have all that expense stuff you're raging about but the reason is more for speed than accuracy. The only reason I use a signal generator is because it offers more than basic patterns and I don't have to switch cables. Basic calibration patterns produced by ChromaPure, CalMAN, and LightSpace software are accurate as long as the computer output is not modified and that is very easy to check. Some inexpensive colorimeters such as X-Rite's Chroma 5 and Display 3 when profiled from a relatively inexpensive spectrophotometer like the X-Rite i1Pro or i1PRO2 are approved for professional use by both ISF and THX for good reason - accuracy. There are a lot of amateur calibrators using that same combination who a very, very good at what they do.

You are incorrect about many things and it doesn't make any difference how many Sansui 5000A receivers or Teac 1040 reel to reels you tried to tweak in the early 1970s. There is life beyond trolling. Go in peace and search for it....
post #6758 of 9972
Well I am "off the fence" and will buy the ST60 in a few weeks. I just came from Best Buy and I compared the ST55 to the Samsung 7000 series and I just liked the Panasonic better. On a side note, I put my head up to ALL of the plasma's in the store and I did NOT hear any buzzing coming from any of them. I wonder if the buzzing sound everyone hears is electrical interference coming from a improperly ground circuit or something like that.
So know I wait.. Ill have the money around Black Friday.
post #6759 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I have all that expense stuff you're raging about but the reason is more for speed than accuracy. The only reason I use a signal generator is because it offers more than basic patterns and I don't have to switch cables. Basic calibration patterns produced by ChromaPure, CalMAN, and LightSpace software are accurate as long as the computer output is not modified and that is very easy to check. Some inexpensive colorimeters such as X-Rite's Chroma 5 and Display 3 when profiled from a relatively inexpensive spectrophotometer like the X-Rite i1Pro or i1PRO2 are approved for professional use by both ISF and THX for good reason - accuracy. There are a lot of amateur calibrators using that same combination who a very, very good at what they do.
You are incorrect about many things and it doesn't make any difference how many Sansui 5000A receivers or Teac 1040 reel to reels you tried to tweak in the early 1970s. There is life beyond trolling. Go in peace and search for it....
Thanks for your input buzz, as always. smile.gif
post #6760 of 9972
For anyone interested in finding qualified professional calibrators the links in the signature area at the bottom of my post are good for references and for locating the best professionals that either work in your area or travel to it during calibration tours.

There has been a constant stream of sometimes helpful information in this thread. Unfortunately that constant steam is frequently nothing but hot air. Reader beware. wink.gif

There is also good information to be found in the signature area of any posts by turbe.

Enjoy. biggrin.gif
post #6761 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

I couldn't care less how much "experience" you have. You're an amateur, simply put. You're arguing against professionals that have FAR more ACTUAL experience than you EVER had, period. I guess a 30-year cook at McDonalds has more knowledge than a 5-year chef at a 5-star restaurant. smile.gif
You're making it sound like pro calibrations aren't worth it, yet you say HDMI cables make a difference. So in a way, you are saying that a quality HDMI cable is better than a calibration. No a pro calibration isn't worth it for everyone, but the fact of the matter is, ANY set on the market will benefit from a pro calibration. Whether the owner of the set sees the difference or not is the question. Just because you don't think a pro calibration is worth it, doesn't mean that it isn't to someone else. Again, not everyone is as lenient when it comes to PQ.
How is it a fact? Can you prove it? No, because you have no equipment to take measurements. Spectroradiometers or even colorimeters are far more accurate than the human eye is, and it has been proven that plasmas drift at a faster rate during the first 100-200 hours of use, and how the TV is used during this time has an affect (albeit minor) on how the TV performs once it settles. Make no mistake, I don't mean that it will make your set perform better, it will just remove one variable. You are obviously completely unaware of the purpose of the slides, and you ignored my reasoning above.
Yes, when have I said otherwise?
Yes, all quality professionals have expensive meters and usually have signal generators. Something you DON'T have, yet are arguing against these professionals.
Doesn't matter what controls the ST50 doesn't have, the grayscale can still be calibrated to < 3 deltaE, even with a simple 2pt system. In fact, most decent display can. And the ST50 doesn't have a Color Management System, but dE94 is still under 3 once the grayscale has been calibrated and by simply using the Color control. The VT50 by comparison, can be calibrated to dEuv and dE94 of <1. This has been shown in calibration reports by pros. I myself have calibrated my ST50 to an average dE of ~1.6. Don't tell me what the ST50 is and isn't capable of, when you don't have any measuring equipment.
I bought a fancy light meter because calibration interests me and so that I can calibrate all of my displays so that I can enjoy them. What's your point?

What's your point in having a public HISSY fit? You're idea of who's a "professional" and mine are obviously quite different. Any claimed professional that suggests running slides for hundreds of hours in some feeble attempt to pretend that does anything is not by any stretch of the word professional anything in my opinion, expect maybe a BS artist. Quote any professional that claims slides do anything. I'll wait, how long you think it will be? Besides suggesting somebody who's only experience is tweaking the settings of a tv is an electronics engineer or whatever you fancy them to be or even a bench tech that repairs tvs for a living is for sure a stretch. Anyone that does anything for a living can be called a professional if you are a bit free with labels. As I'm writing this there's two professionals slowly going down the street using some giant vacuum cleaner sucking up the mounds of leaves... and a fine job they're doing. I wouldn't hire them as landscape architects though. tongue.gif

I'm still waiting for anyone to come close to offering ANY reason even a flimsy one why using slides does anything. Because I know they do nothing. They can't. If you knew anything about electronics, you'd already know that. Again, you're just trying to build a strawman. I agee... any tv should be broken in before any calibration attempt. That's just so all the components stabilize as I said earlier. Simply running the tv will do that. You and a few others that fell for this con game simply pretend using slides somehow does something. You and everyone else supporting slides have failed to explain what or how. Yeah, that's embarrassing. For you.

Again you make wild assumptions. How do you know what equipment I have access to? Oh you don't, you're just blowing smoke. You need to calm down and realize anyone can have opinions in a forum. That's what they're for. I backup my opinions with facts. Try it some time.
post #6762 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

What's your point in having a public HISSY fit? You're idea of who's a "professional" and mine are obviously quite different. Any claimed professional that suggests running slides for hundreds of hours in some feeble attempt to pretend that does anything is not by any stretch of the word professional anything in my opinion, expect maybe a BS artist. Quote any professional that claims slides do anything. I'll wait, how long you think it will be? Besides suggesting somebody who's only experience is tweaking the settings of a tv is an electronics engineer or whatever you fancy them to be or even a bench tech that repairs tvs for a living is for sure a stretch. Anyone that does anything for a living can be called a professional if you are a bit free with labels. As I'm writing this there's two professionals slowly going down the street using some giant vacuum cleaner sucking up the mounds of leaves... and a fine job they're doing. I wouldn't hire them as landscape architects though. tongue.gif
My problem is strictly with you to be completely honest. You come in here thinking that you know more than everyone else, and some of the stuff you've said is right; but anyone telling you that you're wrong, you insult.

You saying that you don't consider D-Nice a professional says it all. D-Nice is arguably the most respected calibrator on these forums and one of the best calibrators in the world. That right there should be enough for people not to believe some of the BS you're saying.

You're completely unaware of the reasoning behind the slides and why he posts his settings in the first place. He doesn't think that his settings will replace a pro calibration; why would he? He's a professional calibrator. He does so because he's nice and that it will hopefully provide a closer picture than the out-of-the-box settings. The slides are meant to remove as many variables as possible, to age your panel during the first 100 hours the same way that he aged his reference panel. Nothing more, nothing less.
Quote:
You need to calm down and realize anyone can have opinions in a forum. That's what they're for. I backup my opinions with facts. Try it some time.
Having an opinion is one thing; having an opinion and speaking as if they were facts and insulting others is another. And some of the things you've said are flat out wrong, but when people call you out on it, you insult them. THAT'S what I have a problem with.

And you're not backing up your opinions with facts... you're backing them up with more of your opinions.

Look back at my 3000 posts and see how many times I have blown up on people before... MAYBE twice.
Edited by rahzel - 11/3/12 at 1:51pm
post #6763 of 9972
i just set up my new 55ST50 a few days ago. first plasma ever, so i have almost no experience with them. i have owned several LCDs and LEDs. i have a few things to ask.

I am -very- happy with the colors and blacks. they are so far beyond what my LCD produced i cant believe it. the sharpness of the screen is also superb. i have been extremely happy with the 2D playback of blurays, but have noticed quite a bit of crosstalk on 3D blurays (avatar, tron, prometheus). i am not sure if you can reduce crosstalk somehow through calibration.... but it is something that may end up causing me to return the set and get something else, as we bought the set with watching 3D movies in mind. some scenes will be perfectly fine but if there is ever a bright light (like a lamp or something) in the scene, you will almost always see a second "ghostly" version of it off to the side a bit. in movies like avatar and prometheus, this can really jack up the viewing experience as there are lights like this all the time.

my main concern is the TVs performance while playing games on my xbox. i have always heard that plasma has the best motion processing of any panel, but i have to say after playing games on it for a good 3-4 hours yesterday, i am horribly disappointed.

3 things stand out that have me disappointed with my first plasma purchase:

#1- moving the camera quickly in games like Assassins Creed 3 causes the picture to become completely blurred out, and everything on the screen produces a triple image with the actual object in the middle and "ghostly" versions of the object slightly to the left and right. also, these "ghostly" versions of the image are strange colors, typically either red or yellow. this is PARTICULARLY noticeable if you move the camera quickly and there is anything that is stark white on the screen, as it will produce VERY noticeable, bright yellow "ghostly" images to the sides of the object. As an example, mission markers in the game are typically white text with a symbol, but if you rotate the camera while they are up on the screen, the text will blurr out and become bright yellow while the camera is moving quickly, and then return to white when the camera stops. this happens with pretty much everything in games.... including while playing sports games, or anything that involves really fast movement. This is not "motion blur" as produced as a graphical effect by the game, i know what that looks like. this is how the panel is handling fast movement.

This is beyond distracting while playing, as when you quickly move the camera in any direction, the screen almost becomes a rainbow of colors with triple images everywhere. i have tried turning motion smoothing on.... i have tried fiddling with settings. motion smoothing works sometimes but when the framerate of the game drops it just makes the game look horribly jerky and awkward. honestly it looks exactly like an issue that i had on an LCD for my PC.... but i didnt think plasmas could have anything like this. it was also my understanding that plasmas had pretty much perfect motion processing thanks to their incredibly high refresh rate, but as it looks on my screen, motion is WAY worse on this plasma than my 5 year old sammy LCD.

#2- the screen uniformity on this plasma leaves something to be greatly desired. on a white, or grey screen, there is a 4-5" round area that is a soft pink color in the top left hand side, and then the ENTIRE right hand side, and lower right corner, are bordered in about a 3" section of soft pink. the rest of the screen seems fine. Now, when you are watching a movie or TV, you cannot see this. typically even if the screen is fairly light you cannot see it. however, in games, the screen will often go to loading screens that are light colors and you -can- see it. i am not sure if this is something that is typical for plasmas.... but again, i was told that plasmas have the absolutely best screen uniformity you can find, and with this soft pink issue, the uniformity on this set is WAY worse than anything i have ever seen out of my LCDs

#3- buzzing. 2 of the LCDs in the past buzzed when on vhite or near white screens, however if there was nearly ANY volume coming out of the TV, you could not hear the buzzing over it. This panny, however, if on a light colored screen.... or particularly when viewing 3D content of any kind (the buzzing really ramps up during 3D viewing).... buzzes, loudly. i sit about 9ft from my screen, and in a low volume sceen in movies or games, you can hear the set buzzing. even with people talking, if there is no music playing or something and the screen is very light, you can hear the buzzing over their talking. now.... im not going to say this particular thing is a deal breaker because really, it is infrequent that i notice it because the screen really has to be bright and the volume has to be relatively quiet, but there is a lot more, and louder, buzzing than i would have ever expected

if anyone has any suggestions on how to eliminate or lessen any of these issues, please let me know. im going to give the set another week or so and see if any of these things really start to bother me (im almost sure the blurring and triple images/rainbow colors while gaming will be a deal breaker though).
post #6764 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

Try here for starters: http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-559444/panasonic-tc-p55st50-picture-settings/
As with any setting they should be taken as a starting point, not absolute. Every tv is slightly different and other factors such as ambient lighting and personal preference should also be considered.
So-called "professional calibration" is in the eyes of the beholder and also is greatly impacted by the skills (or lack of) AND the equipment such a "calibrator" uses. As far as Geek Squard I've seen high praise and utter disgust with the results of their "service", so like with the "buzzing" issue it is really a matter of the luck of the draw. If you luck out and hire a truly skilled calibrator AND he has the right equipment AND you set is really way out of calibration then the differences can be night and day. That is the exception, not the rule.
The question really is does the typical person NEED a professional calibration for their brand new tv? I would counter that by asking when is the last time you bought a new car and within the first 2 months took it in to the dealer for a complete tune-up? Duh! You only would if the car was not performing correctly. So, is your tv performing as you expected AFTER you tweaked settings? If yes, then don't blow hundreds of dollars trying to fix what isn't broken.
Calibration of a digital flat screen is a topic few really understand, but some think they need. It boils down to so-called specs. Simply stated is your particular tv set to specs? There's tons of information on this all over the web for those interested. Somebody a couple days ago posted his before and after results with a popular calibration program. While the color charts might look impressive, they are also highly deceiving and deliberately skewed to make it look like tiny adjustments make huge differences. Sorry, that's baloney.
What few calibrators or those selling calibration software tell you is human eyesight and how humans preceive color and levels of brightness is quite different than how adjusting a tv to some set of specs. In others words a calibration might bring your set closer to specs, but surprise, your eyes won't be able to tell much if any difference. So if you like bragging your set has been "professional calibrated" fine, but if you actually want results you can see, you might be quite disappointed.

Thanks for the post and link. I'll let my eyes do the testing for now and see where that goes.

Thanks again.
post #6765 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

My problem is strictly with you to be completely honest. You come in here thinking that you know more than everyone else, and some of the stuff you've said is right; but anyone telling you that you're wrong, you insult.
You saying that you don't consider D-Nice a professional says it all. D-Nice is arguably the most respected calibrator on these forums and one of the best calibrators in the world. That right there should be enough for people not to believe some of the BS you're saying.
You're completely unaware of the reasoning behind the slides and why he posts his settings in the first place. He doesn't think that his settings will replace a pro calibration; why would he? He's a professional calibrator. He does so because he's nice and that it will hopefully provide a closer picture than the out-of-the-box settings. The slides are meant to remove as many variables as possible, to age your panel during the first 100 hours the same way that he aged his reference panel. Nothing more, nothing less.
Having an opinion is one thing; having an opinion and speaking as if they were facts and insulting others is another. And some of the things you've said are flat out wrong, but when people call you out on it, you insult them. THAT'S what I have a problem with.
And you're not backing up your opinions with facts... you're backing them up with more of your opinions.
Look back at my 3000 posts and see how many times I have blown up on people before... MAYBE twice.

I'll quote from a famous movie... "you can't handle the truth." Trying to elevate a simple task of calibrating a tv to world status all knowing electronics guru is a bit much. I have no ax to grind with this D-Nice character or anyone else. I'm simply asking for FACTS to back up what some here claim the benefit of using slides is suppose to be. Nobody can say. That speaks volumes. We're really taking word semantics. What is a calibrator? Oh, some guy or gal that's a knob twister. Sorry, if that offends anyone, but lets call a spade a spade. Calibrating a tv either with some DVD or even instruments is not black magic or sorry, particually difficult. I could show anyone how to do it in 30 minutes. Big yawn. So it really boils down to a simple question. Is it worth the cost to Joe Average to plop down hundreds of dollars to get his set tweaked to what even the calibrators admit is often a tiny nudge to some theortical spec that they also admit is often beyond the capacity of the human eye to detect just to brag you had your set "professionally" calibrated? For most, I don't think so. I'm not questioning those that forever what reason want to do it, rather I'm questioning is it worth it? I can't decide for you.

You keep bringing up variables using slides are suppose to cure. Your job is to explain WHAT variables are removed, how and why? You and the other slide supporters have totally and repeated failed to even attempt any actual response. You say repetaedly do it because this D-Nice said so and he's a nice guy. That too speaks volumes. Fine, D-Nice is a nice guy. I'll take your word for it. It doesn't address the REASONS for using slides or they are suppose to magically do and you know it. Don't try and hand me BS I don't understand. I have over 20 years posting in forums, newsgroups, etc., and have been both the creator of and mederator of many and still am. I know your type of poster well. You're not going to shout me down or think you can pull rank on me just because you've been here longer or whatever makes you think you have some right to lecture me or others.
post #6766 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

I have no ax to grind with this D-Nice character or anyone else. I'm simply asking for FACTS to back up what some here claim the benefit of using slides is suppose to be. Nobody can say. That speaks volumes.
He must have some sort of basis in having a controlled prep to use his settings. The man knows more about plasma tech than many, if not all of the members here. Not only is he one of the best calibrators in the world, he has inside information from manufacturers (which includes Panasonic) and knows these sets as good as anyone. He has the equipment to monitor the changes that plasmas go through during the earlier hours of use; you on the other hand, don't. You have little to no background and have also provided zero proof. So who would you believe? What makes your theory more credible than D-Nice'? Because you said so? D-Nice is a very busy man, but If he were here, I have no doubt he would be able provide a very good explanation.
Quote:
We're really taking word semantics. What is a calibrator? Oh, some guy or gal that's a knob twister. Sorry, if that offends anyone, but lets call a spade a spade. Calibrating a tv either with some DVD or even instruments is not black magic or sorry, particually difficult. I could show anyone how to do it in 30 minutes.
LOL, how can you say how easy it is to calibrate (let alone teach it), when you don't even calibrate yourself? That's the main problem I have... you're speaking like you're some expert on picture quality when you have zero experience in calibration.

You have a THX certified calibrator (buzzard) telling you that you're wrong in many ways, yet you're still acting like a know-it-all.

As for what I would consider a calibrator; there are varying degrees of 'calibrators': there's the DIY calibrators (like me) who don't have ISF or THX certification that have consumer grade equipment (sometime professional grade equipment), then there's the professionals that do have an ISF or THX certification... these are the people I would consider professionals. Then there's you, people thinking that their eyes are all that are needed and anything else is a waste of money.

Bringing up my post count wasn't to show how much bigger my E-P**** is, it was to show that I have no problem with 99.9% of the members on these boards... just you, because you claimed that I have a problem accepting that people have different opinions. If anything, you have the problem accepting the fact that others have an opinion, because when they disagree with your opinion (or should I say 'facts') you insult them claiming you're superior and more knowledgeable with an incredible 50 YEARS of experience!
Edited by rahzel - 11/3/12 at 3:52pm
post #6767 of 9972
anyone know how to get 3:2 playback to not be greyed out all the time in the settings?

and when would people say it is appropriate to use that setting? just when viewing blurays? gaming? any HD content at all?
post #6768 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dameaus View Post

anyone know how to get 3:2 playback to not be greyed out all the time in the settings?
and when would people say it is appropriate to use that setting? just when viewing blurays? gaming? any HD content at all?

Input a 24 frames movie.
post #6769 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Input a 24 frames movie.

how do you know what is and is not a 24 frames movie?
post #6770 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

You are incorrect about many things and it doesn't make any difference how many Sansui 5000A receivers or Teac 1040 reel to reels you tried to tweak in the early 1970s. There is life beyond trolling. Go in peace and search for it....
LOL
post #6771 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

He must have some sort of basis in having a controlled prep to use his settings. The man knows more about plasma tech than many, if not all of the members here. Not only is he one of the best calibrators in the world, he has inside information from manufacturers (which includes Panasonic) and knows these sets as good as anyone. He has the equipment to monitor the changes that plasmas go through during the earlier hours of use; you on the other hand, don't. You have little to no background and have also provided zero proof. So who would you believe? What makes your theory more credible than D-Nice'? Because you said so? D-Nice is a very busy man, but If he were here, I have no doubt he would be able provide a very good explanation.
LOL, how can you say how easy it is to calibrate (let alone teach it), when you don't even calibrate yourself? That's the main problem I have... you're speaking like you're some expert on picture quality when you have zero experience in calibration.
You have a THX certified calibrator (buzzard) telling you that you're wrong in many ways, yet you're still acting like a know-it-all.
As for what I would consider a calibrator; there are varying degrees of 'calibrators': there's the DIY calibrators (like me) who don't have ISF or THX certification that have consumer grade equipment (sometime professional grade equipment), then there's the professionals that do have an ISF or THX certification... these are the people I would consider professionals. Then there's you, people thinking that their eyes are all that are needed and anything else is a waste of money.
Bringing up my post count wasn't to show how much bigger my E-P**** is, it was to show that I have no problem with 99.9% of the members on these boards... just you, because you claimed that I have a problem accepting that people have different opinions. If anything, you have the problem accepting the fact that others have an opinion, because when they disagree with your opinion (or should I say 'facts') you insult them claiming you're superior and more knowledgeable with an incredible 50 YEARS of experience!

Can't you stop your BS? You seriously are trying to suggest this guy has insider information and that Panasonic and other manufactuers shared it with him? ROTFLMAO! This is a gem "...equipment to monitor the changes that plasmas go through during the earlier hours of use" Again to srtoke your ego you need to follow that will pretending I have no expereince. Did I share my background? You are obviously making crap up as you go. You need to take a chill pill. Two or three maybe. I'll say this, you're entertaining. biggrin.gif You just admitted you have no proof of anything claimed. Funny, I checked this guy out. Not only doesn't this forum allow links to the forum he posts in, but in big red letters this guy boldy states nobody dare copy what he says without his permission. Sounds like we're really talking about a world class prima donna type. Still I give him the benefit of the doubt and accept he's a nice guy. biggrin.gif

You are a bubbling fountain of misinformation. Where did I say I never calibrated a tv? Again you just throw stuff out and see what sticks. You can try to make this about me, but in trying you look clumsy. I ask again PROVE the value of using slides. What's that, you can't? Yeah, I've noticed. Just hot air coming from you.
post #6772 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dameaus View Post

how do you know what is and is not a 24 frames movie?

Press Info on the TV remote control.
post #6773 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

You seriously are trying to suggest this guy has insider information and that Panasonic and other manufactuers shared it with him?

Actually, I believe he does and they do.

True story: A year and a half ago I received a call to calibrate a 2011 GT30. The owner had followed the D-Nice instructions to the letter. Although the odds were against it, there was not one single control that could be moved even one notch that could improve the picture. I charged him gas money for the 70 mile round trip and went home.
post #6774 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dameaus View Post

anyone know how to get 3:2 playback to not be greyed out all the time in the settings?
and when would people say it is appropriate to use that setting? just when viewing blurays? gaming? any HD content at all?

The 3:2 option is available in the custom menu, if it also is from elsewhere I don't know since I just use the custom option. This option is an attempt to get movies to play more like movies, ie meaning look less video like. Most movies are made at 24 frames a second. Ever since the dawn of tv way back in the 40's for most people that caused a problem because frame rates for tv was different. It also depends what part of the world you're in. The two big standards are NTSC in North American and several other places, which operate at 29,997 frames a second while much of the rest of the world uses PAL which if I rememer right is 25 frames a second.The reason NTSC is such an odd number has to do the FCC imposing a standard to support color tv back in the 50's, the trick they used was to cut some lines of resolution and add the color portion of the signal as a sub carrier, but I degress.

To make movies viewed on tv less jerky several "smoothing" methods were developed. The most popular was called 3:2, more formally 3:2 pulldown. Tv's had circuity that added frames over the span of every second, thus making movies smoother playing. That was the idea anyway. The extra frames don't really exist, they're made form the real frames and just plugged in. Panasonic along with other makers have kept trying to improve how this technology works. I have mine turned on and just forget it is there. How much if any real difference you can see is quite subjective. If you're going to be more selective turn in on for movies broadcast over the tv. For things like bluray chances are your blu ray player has already processed the movie and is feeding the tv an adjusted version. Since most DVD and blu ray players have this kind of feature already build in applying it again at the tv probably not a good idea. Time to dig out the manual of both devices, see how to enable/disable and pick the one that does a better job. Don't be surprised if you can't really tell.
post #6775 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricST View Post

I wonder if the buzzing sound everyone hears is electrical interference coming from a improperly ground circuit or something like that.

No. Any complaints of excessive buzzing you see on any Plasma TV are due a defect in an internal electronic component or in the panel itself. Grounding has been suggested and looked into but poor grounding or "dirty" voltage issues have never been attributed to someone' buzzing problem in the 10 years i've been reading this forum.
post #6776 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBoyBlue View Post

I'm having way too much fun outing the BS artists here.biggrin.gif
Gosh darn, they even ID themselves. Too funny!
Whats that old saying? The pot calling the kettle black?
post #6777 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi Soxfan111111, just note both HTIB and Tv has to support ARC to pass audio from Tv to HTIB. Does your HTIB have ARC (Audio Return Channel)? If not then connect an optical cable from Tv "Digital Audio out" to HTIB.

You may have to go into the setup of your AVR and enable it, too. For example, I had to go enable a feature called "HDMI Control", then make sure that ARC was On. Also, again this is per my experience, you might have to set the ST50 to have its default speakers set as Theater/Home Theater. That last part might have more to do with the remote controlling the sound of the AVR via the TV more than the functionality of ARC, not sure. Just throwing it out there.
post #6778 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

No. Any complaints of excessive buzzing you see on any Plasma TV are due a defect in an internal electronic component or in the panel itself. Grounding has been suggested and looked into but poor grounding or "dirty" voltage issues have never been attributed to someone' buzzing problem in the 10 years i've been reading this forum.

so if i hear any buzzing, the panel is faulty?

nobody seems to want to respond to my post, so im not sure if all the issues i seem to be having with my ST50 are just from it being a faulty panel.... or if that is just how the panel is. based on all the praise the ST50 has been getting, i expected a nearly flawless TV. what i got, however, makes me want to go back to LCDs, even though i would sorely miss the exceptional colors and black levels.
post #6779 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dameaus View Post

so if i hear any buzzing, the panel is faulty?
nobody seems to want to respond to my post, so im not sure if all the issues i seem to be having with my ST50 are just from it being a faulty panel.... or if that is just how the panel is. based on all the praise the ST50 has been getting, i expected a nearly flawless TV. what i got, however, makes me want to go back to LCDs, even though i would sorely miss the exceptional colors and black levels.
Its really very simple. If the buzzing is loud enough to bother you during regular viewing then return, exchange or call Panasonic. No sound meters or cell phones or data charts or endless technical jargon is required.
post #6780 of 9972
I want to find out if my new 65ST50 is exhibiting too much unusual noise/ dithering. Is it usual to see that much when you're right up close to the panel? An older samsung lcd a family member owns doesn't show and and this got me wondering if this is normal. I sit 9.5 feet back and I've noticed that certain sources (OTA and even blu ray) look very pixelated while others like Avatar look really good. I just finished watching The Raid: Redemption on blu ray and that was the worst out of all of em. Unfortunately I can't sit further back because of my living room size limitation so that's out of the equation. I barely have six hours on the set using the cnet recommended picture settings and I'm really hoping that it gets better once my panel starts to age............
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