Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 226

Panasonic repair shop called and said the part needed to fix my set is backordered. Bummer, I miss my plasma! He said it needs an A-board whatever that is...

If the only time you are noticing an issue is when you are running slides then there is nothing wrong with your set.

There IS a standard calibrators shoot for, so personal preference should not be a factor. Calibrators will also calibrate to compensate for ambient lighting if need be. The only thing that is somewhat of a personal preference, is gamma. Calibrators do vary in quality, and equipment used is also very important. But there are many great calibrators out there... you just have to do your research. I do agree that GeekSquad is a crapshoot and more times than not, they are not very good.
Errors are reported using various delta formulas; anything below 3 is considered unnoticeable to the human eye. Every single set on the market has errors above 5-7 out of the box and usually far worse. The human eye is a bad tool to measure color and luminance, and tweaking your set will only get you so far. Not everyone is as lenient as the next when it comes to picture quality. Some will settle for nothing less, whether it be a pro calibration, or purchasing your own equipment. Either way will produce better results than tweaking by eye.

If I recall correctly, you're the same one saying that HDMI cables make a difference. The FACT of the matter is, a pro calibration will make far more of a difference than any HDMI cable would.

And in regards to running slides. There is no proof that they cause the buzzing in plasmas. I think you're also unaware of the main purpose of running them. D-Nice uses the slides so that everyone can prep their panels the same way that he prepped his reference panel. This will at least remove one variable, because how a plasma has been used during the first 100-150 hours affects the picture when it has somewhat settled. What I do agree with, is that it's a waste of time to run them, IF you're not using D-Nice's settings.
Edited by rahzel - 11/3/12 at 11:20am

Hi all, anyone with a 65" that can give the measurement of the base?

Hi Soxfan111111, just note both HTIB and Tv has to support ARC to pass audio from Tv to HTIB. Does your HTIB have ARC (Audio Return Channel)? If not then connect an optical cable from Tv "Digital Audio out" to HTIB.

I couldn't care less how much "experience" you have. You're an amateur, simply put. You're arguing against professionals that have FAR more ACTUAL experience than you EVER had, period. I guess a 30-year cook at McDonalds is a better cook than a 5-year chef at a 5-star restaurant. You're making it sound like pro calibrations aren't worth it, yet you say HDMI cables make a difference. So in a way, you are saying that a quality HDMI cable is better than a calibration. No a pro calibration isn't worth it for everyone, but the fact of the matter is, ANY set on the market will benefit from a pro calibration. Whether the owner of the set sees the difference or not is the question. Just because you don't think a pro calibration is worth it, doesn't mean that it isn't to someone else. Again, not everyone is as lenient when it comes to PQ.
How is it a fact? Can you prove it? No, because you have no equipment to take measurements. Spectroradiometers or even colorimeters are far more accurate than the human eye is, and it has been proven that plasmas drift at a faster rate during the first 100-200 hours of use, and how the TV is used during this time has an affect (albeit minor) on how the TV performs once it settles. Make no mistake, I don't mean that it will make your set perform better, it will just remove one variable. You are obviously completely unaware of the purpose of the slides, and you ignored my reasoning above. Once again, you're basically saying that one of the most respected calibrators in the world (D-Nice) is wrong.
Yes, when have I said otherwise? Yes, all quality professionals have expensive meters and usually have signal generators. Something you DON'T have, yet are arguing against these professionals. Doesn't matter what controls the ST50 doesn't have, the grayscale can still be calibrated to < 3 deltaE, even with a simple 2pt system. In fact, most decent display can. And the ST50 doesn't have a Color Management System, but dE94 is still under 3 once the grayscale has been calibrated and by simply using the Color control. The VT50 by comparison, can be calibrated to dEuv and dE94 of <1. This has been shown in calibration reports by pros. I myself have calibrated my ST50 to an average dE of ~1.6. Don't tell me what the ST50 is and isn't capable of, when you don't have any measuring equipment.
I bought a fancy light meter because calibration interests me and so that I can calibrate all of my displays so that I can enjoy them. What's your point?
Edited by rahzel - 11/3/12 at 1:16pm

I have all that expense stuff you're raging about but the reason is more for speed than accuracy. The only reason I use a signal generator is because it offers more than basic patterns and I don't have to switch cables. Basic calibration patterns produced by ChromaPure, CalMAN, and LightSpace software are accurate as long as the computer output is not modified and that is very easy to check. Some inexpensive colorimeters such as X-Rite's Chroma 5 and Display 3 when profiled from a relatively inexpensive spectrophotometer like the X-Rite i1Pro or i1PRO2 are approved for professional use by both ISF and THX for good reason - accuracy. There are a lot of amateur calibrators using that same combination who a very, very good at what they do.

You are incorrect about many things and it doesn't make any difference how many Sansui 5000A receivers or Teac 1040 reel to reels you tried to tweak in the early 1970s. There is life beyond trolling. Go in peace and search for it....

Well I am "off the fence" and will buy the ST60 in a few weeks. I just came from Best Buy and I compared the ST55 to the Samsung 7000 series and I just liked the Panasonic better. On a side note, I put my head up to ALL of the plasma's in the store and I did NOT hear any buzzing coming from any of them. I wonder if the buzzing sound everyone hears is electrical interference coming from a improperly ground circuit or something like that.
So know I wait.. Ill have the money around Black Friday.

Thanks for your input buzz, as always.

For anyone interested in finding qualified professional calibrators the links in the signature area at the bottom of my post are good for references and for locating the best professionals that either work in your area or travel to it during calibration tours.

There has been a constant stream of sometimes helpful information in this thread. Unfortunately that constant steam is frequently nothing but hot air. Reader beware.

There is also good information to be found in the signature area of any posts by turbe.

Enjoy.

My problem is strictly with you to be completely honest. You come in here thinking that you know more than everyone else, and some of the stuff you've said is right; but anyone telling you that you're wrong, you insult.

You saying that you don't consider D-Nice a professional says it all. D-Nice is arguably the most respected calibrator on these forums and one of the best calibrators in the world. That right there should be enough for people not to believe some of the BS you're saying.

You're completely unaware of the reasoning behind the slides and why he posts his settings in the first place. He doesn't think that his settings will replace a pro calibration; why would he? He's a professional calibrator. He does so because he's nice and that it will hopefully provide a closer picture than the out-of-the-box settings. The slides are meant to remove as many variables as possible, to age your panel during the first 100 hours the same way that he aged his reference panel. Nothing more, nothing less. Having an opinion is one thing; having an opinion and speaking as if they were facts and insulting others is another. And some of the things you've said are flat out wrong, but when people call you out on it, you insult them. THAT'S what I have a problem with.

And you're not backing up your opinions with facts... you're backing them up with more of your opinions.

Look back at my 3000 posts and see how many times I have blown up on people before... MAYBE twice.
Edited by rahzel - 11/3/12 at 1:51pm

i just set up my new 55ST50 a few days ago. first plasma ever, so i have almost no experience with them. i have owned several LCDs and LEDs. i have a few things to ask.

I am -very- happy with the colors and blacks. they are so far beyond what my LCD produced i cant believe it. the sharpness of the screen is also superb. i have been extremely happy with the 2D playback of blurays, but have noticed quite a bit of crosstalk on 3D blurays (avatar, tron, prometheus). i am not sure if you can reduce crosstalk somehow through calibration.... but it is something that may end up causing me to return the set and get something else, as we bought the set with watching 3D movies in mind. some scenes will be perfectly fine but if there is ever a bright light (like a lamp or something) in the scene, you will almost always see a second "ghostly" version of it off to the side a bit. in movies like avatar and prometheus, this can really jack up the viewing experience as there are lights like this all the time.

my main concern is the TVs performance while playing games on my xbox. i have always heard that plasma has the best motion processing of any panel, but i have to say after playing games on it for a good 3-4 hours yesterday, i am horribly disappointed.

3 things stand out that have me disappointed with my first plasma purchase:

#1- moving the camera quickly in games like Assassins Creed 3 causes the picture to become completely blurred out, and everything on the screen produces a triple image with the actual object in the middle and "ghostly" versions of the object slightly to the left and right. also, these "ghostly" versions of the image are strange colors, typically either red or yellow. this is PARTICULARLY noticeable if you move the camera quickly and there is anything that is stark white on the screen, as it will produce VERY noticeable, bright yellow "ghostly" images to the sides of the object. As an example, mission markers in the game are typically white text with a symbol, but if you rotate the camera while they are up on the screen, the text will blurr out and become bright yellow while the camera is moving quickly, and then return to white when the camera stops. this happens with pretty much everything in games.... including while playing sports games, or anything that involves really fast movement. This is not "motion blur" as produced as a graphical effect by the game, i know what that looks like. this is how the panel is handling fast movement.

This is beyond distracting while playing, as when you quickly move the camera in any direction, the screen almost becomes a rainbow of colors with triple images everywhere. i have tried turning motion smoothing on.... i have tried fiddling with settings. motion smoothing works sometimes but when the framerate of the game drops it just makes the game look horribly jerky and awkward. honestly it looks exactly like an issue that i had on an LCD for my PC.... but i didnt think plasmas could have anything like this. it was also my understanding that plasmas had pretty much perfect motion processing thanks to their incredibly high refresh rate, but as it looks on my screen, motion is WAY worse on this plasma than my 5 year old sammy LCD.

#2- the screen uniformity on this plasma leaves something to be greatly desired. on a white, or grey screen, there is a 4-5" round area that is a soft pink color in the top left hand side, and then the ENTIRE right hand side, and lower right corner, are bordered in about a 3" section of soft pink. the rest of the screen seems fine. Now, when you are watching a movie or TV, you cannot see this. typically even if the screen is fairly light you cannot see it. however, in games, the screen will often go to loading screens that are light colors and you -can- see it. i am not sure if this is something that is typical for plasmas.... but again, i was told that plasmas have the absolutely best screen uniformity you can find, and with this soft pink issue, the uniformity on this set is WAY worse than anything i have ever seen out of my LCDs

#3- buzzing. 2 of the LCDs in the past buzzed when on vhite or near white screens, however if there was nearly ANY volume coming out of the TV, you could not hear the buzzing over it. This panny, however, if on a light colored screen.... or particularly when viewing 3D content of any kind (the buzzing really ramps up during 3D viewing).... buzzes, loudly. i sit about 9ft from my screen, and in a low volume sceen in movies or games, you can hear the set buzzing. even with people talking, if there is no music playing or something and the screen is very light, you can hear the buzzing over their talking. now.... im not going to say this particular thing is a deal breaker because really, it is infrequent that i notice it because the screen really has to be bright and the volume has to be relatively quiet, but there is a lot more, and louder, buzzing than i would have ever expected

if anyone has any suggestions on how to eliminate or lessen any of these issues, please let me know. im going to give the set another week or so and see if any of these things really start to bother me (im almost sure the blurring and triple images/rainbow colors while gaming will be a deal breaker though).

Thanks for the post and link. I'll let my eyes do the testing for now and see where that goes.

Thanks again.

He must have some sort of basis in having a controlled prep to use his settings. The man knows more about plasma tech than many, if not all of the members here. Not only is he one of the best calibrators in the world, he has inside information from manufacturers (which includes Panasonic) and knows these sets as good as anyone. He has the equipment to monitor the changes that plasmas go through during the earlier hours of use; you on the other hand, don't. You have little to no background and have also provided zero proof. So who would you believe? What makes your theory more credible than D-Nice'? Because you said so? D-Nice is a very busy man, but If he were here, I have no doubt he would be able provide a very good explanation.
LOL, how can you say how easy it is to calibrate (let alone teach it), when you don't even calibrate yourself? That's the main problem I have... you're speaking like you're some expert on picture quality when you have zero experience in calibration.

You have a THX certified calibrator (buzzard) telling you that you're wrong in many ways, yet you're still acting like a know-it-all.

As for what I would consider a calibrator; there are varying degrees of 'calibrators': there's the DIY calibrators (like me) who don't have ISF or THX certification that have consumer grade equipment (sometime professional grade equipment), then there's the professionals that do have an ISF or THX certification... these are the people I would consider professionals. Then there's you, people thinking that their eyes are all that are needed and anything else is a waste of money.

Bringing up my post count wasn't to show how much bigger my E-P**** is, it was to show that I have no problem with 99.9% of the members on these boards... just you, because you claimed that I have a problem accepting that people have different opinions. If anything, you have the problem accepting the fact that others have an opinion, because when they disagree with your opinion (or should I say 'facts') you insult them claiming you're superior and more knowledgeable with an incredible 50 YEARS of experience!
Edited by rahzel - 11/3/12 at 3:52pm

anyone know how to get 3:2 playback to not be greyed out all the time in the settings?

and when would people say it is appropriate to use that setting? just when viewing blurays? gaming? any HD content at all?

Input a 24 frames movie.

how do you know what is and is not a 24 frames movie?

LOL

Press Info on the TV remote control.

Actually, I believe he does and they do.

True story: A year and a half ago I received a call to calibrate a 2011 GT30. The owner had followed the D-Nice instructions to the letter. Although the odds were against it, there was not one single control that could be moved even one notch that could improve the picture. I charged him gas money for the 70 mile round trip and went home.

Whats that old saying? The pot calling the kettle black?

You may have to go into the setup of your AVR and enable it, too. For example, I had to go enable a feature called "HDMI Control", then make sure that ARC was On. Also, again this is per my experience, you might have to set the ST50 to have its default speakers set as Theater/Home Theater. That last part might have more to do with the remote controlling the sound of the AVR via the TV more than the functionality of ARC, not sure. Just throwing it out there.