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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 259

post #7741 of 9972
Quick question, when you guys turn off your HDMI sources, does the TV briefly flicker with a horizontal line going I across? Kinda like you see the signal cutting out. I'm just wondering if this is normal since my Dad's U50 transitions seamlessly to a black screen.
post #7742 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallengt View Post

It's called dithering. All plasma have it, look it up smile.gif.

I'm told Pioneer Elites got rid of this mostly, by having essentially 7 bit video data they are able to display, out of the 8 bits they get, and dropping into black so that one wouldn't see that dithering.

Allegedly, Panasonic is only displaying about 6 bits of video data, and doesn't mask the dithering by dropping into black to mask it (I'd guess they can't without really messing up other aspects of the picture).

I'm sure I am only half remembering this correctly.
Edited by nathan_h - 12/12/12 at 9:47pm
post #7743 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post

Did he calibrate the greyscale in the service menu? I am surprised to not see any adjustments in your custom settings.
EDIT: Never mind. I just saw your 2D settings and he adjusted the greyscale there. I wonder why he didn't do the same for 3D? He's one of the best of the best, so he knows what he is doing far better than I do! smile.gif

You'll also notice he used a verboten color temp setting for 3D, in addition to "crazy" stuff like contrast at 100. He said 3D calibration and capability is still full of lots of compromises, so he was choosing the least problematic way to get as good a picture as possible. And then told me about how James Cameron's original requirements for theaters projecting Avatar meant that something like only two theaters on the planet would be allowed to show it, so they had to start adjusting the source to the capability of theaters (making compromises along the way, to get as good an end result as possible).

It does look good. But I really hired him for his 2D calibration skills. I mean, he's doing monitors for post production, etc, so when we say we calibrate to see movies the way the director intended, well, I think having the guy that calibrated some of those industry monitors also calibrate my monitor makes sense. biggrin.gif
post #7744 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Thanks for the informative response. I will leave mine at 0 as the PQ is nice and I don't want to add any distortions/errors. Having sharpness at 0 is similar to having temperature at Warm 2, in that they both provide an overall more accurate picture, but at some expense. For the former you lose a bit of text clarity and for the latter whites seem a little brownish, although that may be subjective. I'm used to a more normal color temp which makes whites more white (maybe slightly bluish), though not necessarily more accurate, so I have to get used to Warm 2.

I think in most cases, Warm 2 is the closest to "correct" out of the box, but it varies. I think my calibrator ended up using warm 1 and then adjusting temp further with the individual gray scale controls. But if it looks wrong to you after a few weeks, it might be worth trying warm 1 and see what you like better after giving it a try for a while.
post #7745 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanConquest View Post

I'm curious about the extent of testing or even perhaps hearing capability? of those that say they don't experience buzzing. Heck, just from a statistical standpoint, a poll would be great to see how many users sets buzz on bright content and those that don't.
I find it hard to believe that some users who purchased from Amazon have used all 3 exchange privileges to conclude that every damn unit buzzs on bright content. If buzzing is a defect, that's a pretty damn high defect rate don't you think? Or simply horrid luck?
If it isn't an accepted flaw (or whatever you want to label it) inherent in plasma technology and in fact a defect, then the trouble consumers are putting retailers through with exchanges is justified. No offense to anyone, but I'd hate to think that people are belaboring businesses for nothing by taking the advice of people who may be getting hard of hearing (whose sets in fact do buzz like the rest) by requesting multiple exchanges.
I say all this because I'm considering having Amazon ship me a 2nd unit to evaluate, but I don't have my hopes up from what I've read of others pursuing the infamous "plasma that doesn't buzz". Especially given that Samsung's plasmas are notorious for buzzing, and even Kuros so I've heard? Then again, I'm not very in experiencing with this display technology, but from what I'm gathering, buzzing and plasma seem synonymous.

Here's my experience. I ran D-nice's slides and could hear the buzzing from 8-9 feet away on the white slide. Less on the grays and colors. I had to get very close and/or put my ear behind. I was very critical because I wanted a "perfect" set. After, I moved the TV to my room and watched Up. The only time I heard buzzing was during the quiet scenes where the camera panned to a white cloudy sky. Since then I have really tried to listen for it and have not heard it unless I go directly behind the TV.

Something I realized is that my other electronic equipment - DVR, PS3, Xbox 360, laptop - are all louder than the buzz from the TV so A) I'm already used to ambient noise and B) whatever buzzing exists is a non-issue at this point. Will I here it again? Probably, but I don't think bad enough to ruin the experience. So far it has been minimal during normal viewing and there seems to be no other real issues with my ST50 so I don't really want to take a chance at returning and risk getting one with more issues.
post #7746 of 9972
Well I thought I'd post the 2D settings for my 65ST50 after weeks of tweaking and fiddling. This was mostly done by eye and I'll probably raise an eyebrow here and there for some choices but until I get a professional calibration some time next year I think this will be it:

Picture:
Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast: 88
Brightness: 55
Color: 47
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 10 (I Bump this up to 15 for my OTA channels)
Color Temp: Warm2
Color Mgmt: Off
C.A.T.S: Off
Video NR: Off

-Pro Settings:
Colorspace: Normal
W/B High R: +5
W/B High G: 0
W/B High B: +2
W/B Low R: +8
W/B Low G: 0
W/B Low B: +1
Black Extension: 0
Gamma Adjustment: 2.4 (Been using S-Curve a lot lately though)
Panel Brightness: Mid
Contour Emphasis: Off
AGC: 0

-Aspect adjustments submenu
Screen format: Full
HD size: Size 2
H size: [grayed out]
Zoom adjustments: [grayed out]

-HDMI Settings
Default

-Advanced picture submenu
3D Y/C filter: Off [grayed out]
Color matrix: HD [grayed out]
Block NR: Off [grayed out]
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion smoother: Off
Black level: Light
3:2 pulldown: On
24p Direct in: 60Hz


If you have the 65- try it and let me know what you think wink.gif
Edited by Chere - 12/12/12 at 11:34pm
post #7747 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

A few questions:
1. Is it better to use HD SIZE 1 + Pixel Orbiter for gaming, sports - maybe during the first few hundred hours? I could then use HD SIZE 2 after the few hundred hour mark. Does the pixel orbiter really do anything to reduce chance of IR? What about lowering contrast to reduce chance of IR. I have it set at 76 for normal viewing.
2.. For gamers, after how many hours did you start gaming regularly?
3. I know it's recommended to have the TV calibrated after a few hundred hours. I already ran D-nice's slides and input his reference settings, but plan to use the AVS HD 709 and GCD (Gamut Calibration Disc) to see if they yield a better picture. Should I wait until I reach the few hundred hour mark or could I calibrate now and then again when I reach the few hundred hour mark? For those that ran the slides + D-nice's reference settings and then used a calibration disc, which settings were better, D-nice's or the calibration disc's?
4. In addition to full screen HD programming did any of you run 1920x1080 HD Wallpaper images via usb to age the panel faster? So far I've watched a few blu-rays and full screen HD programming, but it's slow going. Is animation better for the aging process? I would assume that varied content would be better than looping a single blu-ray over and over?

Hd size 2 and pixel orbiter works just fine. I use it I get less ir with it.

2. Don't worry about gaming too much I regularly game on this sometimes for over 5-6 hours sessions. No ir, I just usually put on he content when im done anyways. I don't use game mode though I use d nice settings on custom. Lag difference isn't too big
post #7748 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanConquest View Post

I'm curious about the extent of testing or even perhaps hearing capability? of those that say they don't experience buzzing. Heck, just from a statistical standpoint, a poll would be great to see how many users sets buzz on bright content and those that don't.
I find it hard to believe that some users who purchased from Amazon have used all 3 exchange privileges to conclude that every damn unit buzzs on bright content.

Here's some more discussion on buzzing: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1444504/needhelp-plasma-buzzing-panasonic-st50-when-is-it-not-acceptabel

I do kind of wish I could hear other people's set ups or vice versa. I haven't advised anyone to exchange their set, but if it's effecting your normal viewing then I personally wouldn't find that acceptable. There have been units proven to be defective by having the issue resolved through repair. And I imagine there have been people that overreacted to watching white slides and sent them back. I am curious how many less returns there'd have been if it weren't for this thread. wink.gif
post #7749 of 9972
For the life of me I cant figure out what line bleed is. I have stared at my screen trying to notice something but just cant.

Guess my eyes are not good enough to see it or I'm to ignorant too know what it is, either way I am glad I cant see see it.
post #7750 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisFreak View Post

For the life of me I cant figure out what line bleed is. I have stared at my screen trying to notice something but just cant.
Guess my eyes are not good enough to see it or I'm to ignorant too know what it is, either way I am glad I cant see see it.

It's most noticeable on the green preview screen on DVDs (that seems to be the biggest offender). Aside from this green screen, i can only remember seeing it once over the years when watching regular content - it was during a boxing match where the ropes appeared to pass through the torso of a boxer - but otherwise i haven't noticed it on regular content. I imagine if you really look for it and pause certain scenes with railings or fences etc you'd be able to spot it here and there, but in real world viewing it rarely occurs.

Here's a picture of it from an LG thread - notice the dark lines extending to the right (and left) of the text on this warning screen:

e546a324_vbattach201379.jpeg
post #7751 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by barber76 View Post

Got my 50ST50 two days ago. On slides I can definitely see those vertical stripes that, I believe, were reported both here and at avforums by multiple owners. One is brighter vertical stripe a few inches from right bezel, another is very narrow dark, right along the bezel.
The stripes aren't visible on regular content, but distinct on slides, especially dark-grey & green ones.
I'm not a videophile, so won't be returning the set. But still, a question - can anyone with this problem comment whether screen uniformity got better with time?

After a week of regular watching I see the bright stripe washing out. That's great. The narrow dark stripe along the bezel is still going strong, though.
Also, thought I 'm going crazy being unable to change aspect ratio when in Internet->Netflix. Gave up, googled it, and found that it's an old known feature. Or should I say bug? mad.gif
post #7752 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

It's most noticeable on the green preview screen on DVDs (that seems to be the biggest offender). Aside from this green screen, i can only remember seeing it once over the years when watching regular content - it was during a boxing match where the ropes appeared to pass through the torso of a boxer - but otherwise i haven't noticed it on regular content. I imagine if you really look for it and pause certain scenes with railings or fences etc you'd be able to spot it here and there, but in real world viewing it rarely occurs.
Here's a picture of it from an LG thread - notice the dark lines extending to the right (and left) of the text on this warning screen:
I see that fairly often with text and never thought much about it. I knew it wasnt right but it really doesnt bother me. No way in the world I would return because of something like that.
post #7753 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

It's most noticeable on the green preview screen on DVDs (that seems to be the biggest offender). Aside from this green screen, i can only remember seeing it once over the years when watching regular content - it was during a boxing match where the ropes appeared to pass through the torso of a boxer - but otherwise i haven't noticed it on regular content. I imagine if you really look for it and pause certain scenes with railings or fences etc you'd be able to spot it here and there, but in real world viewing it rarely occurs.
Here's a picture of it from an LG thread - notice the dark lines extending to the right (and left) of the text on this warning screen:

Wow thanks for that picture Randy. Ok looking at that I can definitely see the line bleed. I cant say I have ever noticed it before on my TV but I will take another look tonight.

Just last night I watched part episodes of The Simpsons, Southpark, and a full episode of Family Guy and did not notice any line bleed in those shows.
post #7754 of 9972
2 quick questions first is for ps3 blu ray play back: i am assuming i set it to 60 hz instead on 48 because that causes flicker. my question is what optimal on ps3's blu rays setting setting 1080p 24 hz to auto, on or off? i have heard conflicting reports on what to use

2nd questions: i know this is marketing but exactly does it mean by 600 hz and 2500 subn field drive i thought all tvs were 60hz. is the tv on 600 hz when you put motion smoother on strong?
post #7755 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomess023 View Post

2 quick questions first is for ps3 blu ray play back: i am assuming i set it to 60 hz instead on 48 because that causes flicker. my question is what optimal on ps3's blu rays setting setting 1080p 24 hz to auto, on or off? i have heard conflicting reports on what to use
2nd questions: i know this is marketing but exactly does it mean by 600 hz and 2500 subn field drive i thought all tvs were 60hz. is the tv on 600 hz when you put motion smoother on strong?

mine is set to auto per a view different websites that all suggested this
post #7756 of 9972
I have a question, but I'll touch on the buzzing first. If you've got a source with a lot of white content on the screen, you WILL hear it in a relatively quiet setting. There's just no other way to put it. And I'd wager that if you're using this TV with relatively weak speakers, you'll still hear it. There's no other way around it; it's there and it's noticeable if you don't have sound that can offset it. When there's not a lot of white on the screen, I don't hear anything. But if you plan on using this in scenarios (as a PC monitor) where you foresee a lot of white on the screen consistently without any volume, there's no getting around it. You're going to notice it.

Now onto my specific question. So I have the 55" and I have my PC hooked up to it, and overall I find the blacks/color quality very good. I can most definitely tell a difference from my previous TV and as with most things in some cases it looks a lot better, and in same cases it's really not that much of a difference.

My question is in relation to, and I'm not sure if I will describe it accurately enough for someone to be able to answer, the "clarity" of the screen. When I'm messing around on my PC, whether it be web browsing, looking at my Steam application, or just any kind of normal PC use, it just doesn't seem to me like the image is as clear as it was on my older LCD. I don't necessarily think it looks really bad or anything....it just looks different. It's most noticeable with fonts of web pages, applications, stuff like that. I just don't know how to describe it but it's like some kind of smoothing effect that's counterproductive. Does anyone nkow what I'm talking about and if so, is there a way around this? Or is this just the way plasma Tv's output a PC image.
post #7757 of 9972
^^^

Let's all do one of the online hearing tests to see which frequencies we can't hear. Part kidding, part serious, lol. I'm so entrenched in this buzzing issue that it drives me nuts sometimes. I know I hear buzzing, but don't know if I am more sensitive to it. It would be really interesting to find out the hearing capabilities of those that say that can't hear it. No disrespect intended.
Edited by p3Orion - 12/13/12 at 12:51pm
post #7758 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mva5580 View Post

I have a question, but I'll touch on the buzzing first. If you've got a source with a lot of white content on the screen, you WILL hear it in a relatively quiet setting. There's just no other way to put it. And I'd wager that if you're using this TV with relatively weak speakers, you'll still hear it. There's no other way around it; it's there and it's noticeable if you don't have sound that can offset it. When there's not a lot of white on the screen, I don't hear anything. But if you plan on using this in scenarios (as a PC monitor) where you foresee a lot of white on the screen consistently without any volume, there's no getting around it. You're going to notice it.

Not according to everyone, which is one of the most frustrating things about deciphering this buzzing issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mva5580 View Post

INow onto my specific question. So I have the 55" and I have my PC hooked up to it, and overall I find the blacks/color quality very good. I can most definitely tell a difference from my previous TV and as with most things in some cases it looks a lot better, and in same cases it's really not that much of a difference.
My question is in relation to, and I'm not sure if I will describe it accurately enough for someone to be able to answer, the "clarity" of the screen. When I'm messing around on my PC, whether it be web browsing, looking at my Steam application, or just any kind of normal PC use, it just doesn't seem to me like the image is as clear as it was on my older LCD. I don't necessarily think it looks really bad or anything....it just looks different. It's most noticeable with fonts of web pages, applications, stuff like that. I just don't know how to describe it but it's like some kind of smoothing effect that's counterproductive. Does anyone nkow what I'm talking about and if so, is there a way around this? Or is this just the way plasma Tv's output a PC image.

I think I know what you're talking about. When I'm on my laptop for a while, which has a 16.4" 1080P screen, and then turn on my TV, the TV does not looks as crisp and detailed at first until my eyes adjust. I believe it's because the pixels on an LCD screen/monitor are so small in comparison to a large plasma.
post #7759 of 9972
maybe the buzzers should record with video and post the sound online?
post #7760 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanConquest View Post

I'm curious about the extent of testing or even perhaps hearing capability? of those that say they don't experience buzzing. Heck, just from a statistical standpoint, a poll would be great to see how many users sets buzz on bright content and those that don't.

I'm certain hearing capability is a factor. My girlfriend complained that our DVR had an annoying whine, something I couldn't hear.
post #7761 of 9972
post #7762 of 9972
Observation- Did you ever notice when you walk up close to the plasma screen it dims more or less in the shape of your shadow. This dimming does not seem to reduce the wattage.
post #7763 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTBill View Post

Observation- Did you ever notice when you walk up close to the plasma screen it dims more or less in the shape of your shadow. This dimming does not seem to reduce the wattage.

Do not walk into the light. Stay away from the light, lol

Seriously, I've never noticed this. I will try it sometime.
post #7764 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanConquest View Post

I'm curious about the extent of testing or even perhaps hearing capability? of those that say they don't experience buzzing. Heck, just from a statistical standpoint, a poll would be great to see how many users sets buzz on bright content and those that don't.

Believe there is already a poll thread here somewhere (could be for GT50) for buzz.
The orig poster attempted to correlate buzz perception with age of owner.
I do now notice a high pitched whine, which seems to exist in my ears even if I turn the set off, dang it.
So I am thinking of seeing if Radio Shack dB meter can hear anything I cannot.
I get no ST50 buzz, which I assume buzz is medium freq buzz we can all hear at any age, but I have not run d-Nice's slides so I will try to do this.
Yes if I put ear up to holes in the back panel I can hear some buzz in certain scenes.
post #7765 of 9972
Can anyone recommend a good sound bar for this tv? 55 inch screen and the sound is pretty mediocre. Thanks!
post #7766 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by shermas View Post

Can anyone recommend a good sound bar for this tv? 55 inch screen and the sound is pretty mediocre. Thanks!
Do you have a receiver?
post #7767 of 9972
I have a another dumb queston, if the tv is off as in when the light is red it doesnt accumalate hours on it does it? Cuz i got the tv on american black friday and i the service menu i have accumated 300 hours on it already. I dont know if that really adds up
post #7768 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomess023 View Post

I have a another dumb queston, if the tv is off as in when the light is red it doesnt accumalate hours on it does it? Cuz i got the tv on american black friday and i the service menu i have accumated 300 hours on it already. I dont know if that really adds up

Maybe I do not understand what you are asking, or maybe you have a non-U.S. set (based on you saying "american black friday"). But, the little red light is only lit when the TV is on, not off.
post #7769 of 9972
W/B High R:
W/B High G:
W/B High B:
W/B Low R:
W/B Low G:
W/B Low B:

Can anyone explain a little what these settings are? i.e. Is this the white balance, What's the difference between High and Low? Thanks!
post #7770 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Do you have a receiver?
No, no sound equipment of any kind... Just stock speakers.
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