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Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 276

post #8251 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedguy View Post

I could be wrong but that looks like color banding.

I thought that's what it is called too but wasn't sure. I even googled "color banding' before I asked, but saw vertical and horizontal banding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

Is that from a DVD? If so, it's an expected effect of the resolution and compression.

It's from dish satellite. I figured the quality of the source factored in. I have noticed it on blu-rays to a lesser extent.

Would a video processor like a DVDO improve color banding and compressed programming in general?
post #8252 of 9972
It's an artifact from compression or poor processing. You shouldn't see it on a decent BD played from a good Blu-ray player.
Edited by jonnythan - 1/8/13 at 12:23pm
post #8253 of 9972
I saw that today at the CES show in Las Vegas Panasonic announced some of their new products and updates. Below is a link to the Pana website that shows what has been announced. I did not know if there was anyone at the show who could talk to the changes in either quality or functionality of the plasma series of TV's that are being newly product coded the TC-P65ST60, TC-P60ST60,TC-P55ST60,TC-P50ST60, The P65ST60 has a suggested retail of $2,800 while the P60ST60 has a suggested retail value of $1,900

There is another plasma series without the 3-D functionality and the smart TV capabilities being announced. The family are product coded TC-P65S60, TC-P60S60,TC-P55S60,TC-P50S60,TC-P42S60. The suggested retail on the TC-P65S60 is $1,900 and the TC-P60S60 is $1,300.

Would love to hear from some of the knowledgeable folks on this site on their opinions of what it all means.

Here is the link.

http://www.panasonic.com/promos/ces/2013/products/viera-televisions.aspx
post #8254 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You are confusing CEC with something else. I do not use it. AVR HDMI switching has nothing to do with CEC. CEC is designed to turn things on and off together. Completely unnecessary. Are you talking about "HDMI Standy Switching" or "HDMI Standby Pass Through"? These are necessary.
LOL!

Semantics. rolleyes.gif

Denon call it "HDMI Control".

The following is cut from page 95 of UK AVR-3313 owners manual:
"If you connect the unit and an HDMI control function compatible TV or
player with an HDMI cable and then enable the HDMI control function
setting on each device, the devices will be able to control each other.
nnOperations possible by HDMI control
• This unit power off can be linked to the TV power off step.
• You can switch audio output devices with a TV operation.
When you set “Output audio from amp” in the TV audio output
setup operation, you can switch the amp power on.
• You can adjust this unit volume in the TV volume adjustment
operation.
• You can switch this unit input sources through linkage to TV
input switching.
• When playing the player, this unit input source switches to the
source for that player.
• If you switch the input source of the unit to “TV AUDIO”, you
can play TV audio with this unit (vpage 9 “About ARC
(Audio Return Channel) function”).
• When “HDMI Control” (vpage 121) in the menu is set to
“On”, signals input to the HDMI input connector are output to
the television or other device connected to the HDMI output
connector, even if the power of this unit is in standby (passthrough
function).
• To use this unit to play the audio of a TV that does not support
the ARC function, connect the TV with an optical-digital or analog
connection (vpage 9).
• To use the pass-through function, connect an HDMI connection
device that is compatible with HDMI control."

Setup offers separate option of input control and power control of selected device. I've not enabled power control, just HDMI switching control.

Harmony One controls power of devices.
post #8255 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

It's an artifact from compression or poor processing. You shouldn't see it on a decent BD played from a good Blu-ray player.

I'm using a PS3. Come to think of it I believe the color banding I saw was from the "Finding Nemo" DVD not from a blu-ray. While the dish satellite version of "Finding Nemo" is better than the DVD it sucks that there is so much compression. The ST50 really shows programming flaws.
post #8256 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

What's the layered effect in the following pictures? I can't remember the technical term for it.
The pictures didn't come out that great during the daytime, but they show the effect nonetheless.....

Although from a photography site, this is a nice description of "posterization" - which is the first term that popped to mind when looking at your photos:
Quote:
Generally, colors in an image blend gradually from one color to the next. Is impossible for the human eye to tell where one color stops and the next one picks up. However, in some cases, the transition from one color to the next can actually be seen. This usually occurs in areas of little detail (e.g., featureless skies). The result is an image where bands appear to run across the image. This problem is known as posterization (also known as banding).

Site also provides several sample pictures.

Obtaining a better source is probably the best solution, although you Might gain some improvement by running through the AVS HD709 disk....
post #8257 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

I'm using a PS3. Come to think of it I believe the color banding I saw was from the "Finding Nemo" DVD not from a blu-ray. ..... The ST50 really shows programming flaws.

Garbage In = Garbage Out. eek.gif

In general, would agree that the ST50 tends to show off source flaws more than expected.

However, after playing around with some Non-Blu-Ray disks, am leaning toward a belief that the SIZE of our panel (60ST50) plays a more significant role in the Visibility of PQ Glitches than had previously thought.

Close Comparison is to two older Pan plasmas - a 50" and a 42" - both of which appear(ed) to handle Less-Than-HD sources better than the ST50.
While there might be some "Truth" to that assumption, a couple of recent viewings have suggested - again - that SIZE is also an important factor.

1) At the end of the 3rd Bourne movie, we have always noticed significant Posterization in the underwater scene. Source is a HD DVD, and when viewed recently on the ST50, the posterization in that scene was Significantly Less Visible than it is on our 50" panel. To be sure, a HD DVD provides a better source than a SD DVD - but at least in this case the ST50 out-performs the older panel, using the same material, and the same player.

2) Someone gave us a SD DVD copy of "Day After Tomorrow" for Christmas. We are suckers for such films, but did not previously own that one.
Although the PQ was not up to what we would expect from a blu-ray, I was pleasantly surprised to find a Lack of "Distracting PQ Glitches" while watching the movie - other than rather noticeable "Film Grain," some of which might have been SD Artifacts. But then we've seen Noticeable Film Grain on any number of blu-ray movies (as well as during most theater films, of course), so without a comparison to another copy of the movie it is hard to tell what is inherent to the original.

Was also rather pleased with a SD copy of "The Promise" - the gorgeous colors in particular - although did notice some apparent compression artifacts during a couple of the Stampede shots. Again, without another (that is: Blu-ray) copy of the film, it is hard to say where the fault lies.
post #8258 of 9972
Hi! I have a question. I just set up our new ST50 and am noticing something odd. On SOME channels that use a gray bar letterbox on the sides of the screen, I am seeing a white flashing line across the top of the picture. it's not across the gray bar parts, just across the top of the actual aired video. It is at the very top of the screen. If the top has a black bar over the video, the white flashing line doesn't show up. I'm not sure if this is a tv defect, or what? It appears on every picture mode (Standard, Cinema, etc).

We are on Directv.

I recorded a program with the white banding across the top of the screen to our Directv dvr today. It still appears when you play back the video. However, when I move the dvr box to our LED tv in the other room, the banding does NOT show up when I replay that same video. So, I think I can rule out the DVR as a the problem.

Any advice on what to try next would be appreciated. Thoughts on whether this constitutes a defect would also be appreciated.

Also, this was purchased from Amazon, and I am within the 30 day return window, so thoughts on returns are also appreciated.
post #8259 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhalart View Post

Hi! I have a question. I just set up our new ST50 and am noticing something odd. On SOME channels that use a gray bar letterbox on the sides of the screen, I am seeing a white flashing line across the top of the picture. it's not across the gray bar parts, just across the top of the actual aired video. It is at the very top of the screen. If the top has a black bar over the video, the white flashing line doesn't show up. I'm not sure if this is a tv defect, or what? It appears on every picture mode (Standard, Cinema, etc).
We are on Directv.
I recorded a program with the white banding across the top of the screen to our Directv dvr today. It still appears when you play back the video. However, when I move the dvr box to our LED tv in the other room, the banding does NOT show up when I replay that same video. So, I think I can rule out the DVR as a the problem.
Any advice on what to try next would be appreciated. Thoughts on whether this constitutes a defect would also be appreciated.
Also, this was purchased from Amazon, and I am within the 30 day return window, so thoughts on returns are also appreciated.

this is NOT a problem.

This is what 4:3 source will do. The first few lines are reserved normally for data that goes from the sender to the TV station, things like clock and time sync and so on. You're seeing it because the TV is showing every line instead of only 95%.

There is a HDMI Size setting that you can change that will reduce the image displayed from 100% to 95%.
post #8260 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhalart View Post

Hi! I have a question. I just set up our new ST50 and am noticing something odd. On SOME channels that use a gray bar letterbox on the sides of the screen, I am seeing a white flashing line across the top of the picture. it's not across the gray bar parts, just across the top of the actual aired video. It is at the very top of the screen. If the top has a black bar over the video, the white flashing line doesn't show up. I'm not sure if this is a tv defect, or what? It appears on every picture mode (Standard, Cinema, etc).
We are on Directv.
I recorded a program with the white banding across the top of the screen to our Directv dvr today. It still appears when you play back the video. However, when I move the dvr box to our LED tv in the other room, the banding does NOT show up when I replay that same video. So, I think I can rule out the DVR as a the problem.
Any advice on what to try next would be appreciated. Thoughts on whether this constitutes a defect would also be appreciated.
Also, this was purchased from Amazon, and I am within the 30 day return window, so thoughts on returns are also appreciated.

I'll take a stab before someone more qualified answers. It might be part of the video signal. Are you using HD Size 1 or HD Size 2? HD Size 1 has 5 percent overscan while HD Size 2 has zero overscan. On some programs that don't fill the entire screen when using HD Size 2 there will be a bright green or pink line on the edges. If you're not using HD Size 1 try it and see if the white line disappears. Press Menu>Picture>Aspect Adjustments>HD size>Size 1
post #8261 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

I assume the ST50 is suppose to be vertically straight when mounted on the stand. Mine is tilted slightly upward. Are others experiencing this?....

"Upward" - -- As in "Backwards" - ???

Our 60ST50 initially leaned toward the right (right edge was lower - closer to the tv cabinet - than the left edge), but we resolved that by loosening the screws on the stand, and supporting the right edge when re-tightening them.

Upon reading your post, grabbed a 2-foot level and found:
1) Our panel is currently Level from side-to-side. This actually surprised me a bit, as would have guessed it might still lean Slightly to the right (even if not Visibly so).

2) The panel also Leans FORWARD slightly. Again, am trusting the level here, as this forward tilt is not visually apparent, regardless of viewing angle (at least to my eyes).
However, an additional measurement with the level revealed that the CABINET upon which the tv sits is ALSO leaning Slightly Forward. eek.gif

Working hypothesis, for the time being, is that our Floor is not level - and, indeed, other furniture in the same room supports that conclusion, unless we've had Very Poor Luck in our furniture choices...

FWIW, when the tech was assembling the stand there was a bit of confusion as to how to piece it together: at least with our panel (from spring 2012), there was a Metal Insert for the stand that was packaged with the Documentation (and/or Remote), as opposed to the balance of the parts for the stand.

I don't know whether the stand WOULD have gone together without that insert, but the Tech was certainly prepared to TRY!

(Hmm: don't really want that to sound Too COLD: all-in-all was Very Pleased with the service we received from the local Pan Svc Techs. Tech installation was due to the panel being a replacement for a defective set - AND, after all, wouldn't MOST of us Just Assume that ALL OF THE STAND COMPONENTS would be packaged TOGETHER?!?)
post #8262 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

"Upward" - -- As in "Backwards" - ???
Our 60ST50 initially leaned toward the right (right edge was lower - closer to the tv cabinet - than the left edge), but we resolved that by loosening the screws on the stand, and supporting the right edge when re-tightening them.
Upon reading your post, grabbed a 2-foot level and found:
1) Our panel is currently Level from side-to-side. This actually surprised me a bit, as would have guessed it might still lean Slightly to the right (even if not Visibly so).
2) The panel also Leans FORWARD slightly. Again, am trusting the level here, as this forward tilt is not visually apparent, regardless of viewing angle (at least to my eyes).
However, an additional measurement with the level revealed that the CABINET upon which the tv sits is ALSO leaning Slightly Forward. eek.gif
Working hypothesis, for the time being, is that our Floor is not level - and, indeed, other furniture in the same room supports that conclusion, unless we've had Very Poor Luck in our furniture choices...
FWIW, when the tech was assembling the stand there was a bit of confusion as to how to piece it together: at least with our panel (from spring 2012), there was a Metal Insert for the stand that was packaged with the Documentation (and/or Remote), as opposed to the balance of the parts for the stand.
I don't know whether the stand WOULD have gone together without that insert, but the Tech was certainly prepared to TRY!
(Hmm: don't really want that to sound Too COLD: all-in-all was Very Pleased with the service we received from the local Pan Svc Techs. Tech installation was due to the panel being a replacement for a defective set - AND, after all, wouldn't MOST of us Just Assume that ALL OF THE STAND COMPONENTS would be packaged TOGETHER?!?)

I included a picture showing the direction. Looking at the TV screen the top leans toward the wall, if that makes sense. I don't have a level anymore, but I will get one to see if the dresser is level. I don't know if remounting the TV on the bracket would do anything because to my eyes it looks as if the bracket isn't completely vertical. If the dresser turns out to be level I may place something either under it or the TV stand rather than messing around with the bracket.
post #8263 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain- View Post

LOL!
Semantics. rolleyes.gif
Denon call it "HDMI Control".
You call it "Semantics". Others call it "Details" and they can be very important when setting up electronics. Note that CEC is never mentioned in the info you provided. It is good that you set the record straight and noted that you were wrong. That info may help others.
post #8264 of 9972
Which setup is better, less likely to have issues?

Setup 1

DVR/PS3/Xbox 360==>Denon AVR-1712===>ST50 HDMI 1

Setup 2

DVR===========>ST50 HDMI 1

PS3============>ST50 HDMI 2

Xbox 360========>ST50 HDMI 3

*optical from Denon 1712 to DVR/PS3/Xbox 360

Trying to find out if there is a consensus between setup 1 and 2.
post #8265 of 9972
Setup 1
post #8266 of 9972
Not bothering to look it up, if your AVR supports ARC, then use HDMI 2.
post #8267 of 9972
Hey everybody. After weeks of reading and hours in stores staring at TVs I think I'm going to be picking up the 50" st50 within the next month. It will be my first plasma and also the largest TV I've had. I use it mainly for bluray, PS3 gaming and the monitor for my Mac Mini. All is sent through my Pioneer 1122k receiver. I'm mainly wanting to know about setting it up for the first time. I've read a lot on IR and burn in and it's the only thing I'm not sure about. A lot of the movies I watch have black bars top and bottom. What, if any steps so I need to take to miniseries any risk of IR? Even if there's just a link to read I'd be happy to do so. Just hoping to clear this up. Have had LCD for years now so never really looked into this.
post #8268 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert8252 View Post

Hey everybody. After weeks of reading and hours in stores staring at TVs I think I'm going to be picking up the 50" st50 within the next month. It will be my first plasma and also the largest TV I've had. I use it mainly for bluray, PS3 gaming and the monitor for my Mac Mini. All is sent through my Pioneer 1122k receiver. I'm mainly wanting to know about setting it up for the first time. I've read a lot on IR and burn in and it's the only thing I'm not sure about. A lot of the movies I watch have black bars top and bottom. What, if any steps so I need to take to miniseries any risk of IR? Even if there's just a link to read I'd be happy to do so. Just hoping to clear this up. Have had LCD for years now so never really looked into this.
I don't know what your specific habits are but I would be careful about choosing any plasma if you do much gaming and intend to use it as a monitor. Have you ever seen a plasma monitor?
post #8269 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert8252 View Post

Hey everybody. After weeks of reading and hours in stores staring at TVs I think I'm going to be picking up the 50" st50 within the next month. It will be my first plasma and also the largest TV I've had. I use it mainly for bluray, PS3 gaming and the monitor for my Mac Mini. All is sent through my Pioneer 1122k receiver. I'm mainly wanting to know about setting it up for the first time. I've read a lot on IR and burn in and it's the only thing I'm not sure about. A lot of the movies I watch have black bars top and bottom. What, if any steps so I need to take to miniseries any risk of IR? Even if there's just a link to read I'd be happy to do so. Just hoping to clear this up. Have had LCD for years now so never really looked into this.

Personally, I wouldn't use a plasma as a Mac monitor.

There's an extensive FAQ in the 2012 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread page 3, post #4 on high def junkies.

This site is linked in the FAQ: http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html
post #8270 of 9972
As far as a monitor goes I never leave it on for extended times. Mainly browsing the Internet once in a blue moon, iTunes for music and movies. As for gaming, how is that bad for plasma? Just a honest question. I'd understand of you left it on a menu or something?
post #8271 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert8252 View Post

As far as a monitor goes I never leave it on for extended times. Mainly browsing the Internet once in a blue moon, iTunes for music and movies. As for gaming, how is that bad for plasma? Just a honest question. I'd understand of you left it on a menu or something?
Its ok if you're careful. People game on them all the time but some games have "health monitors" and so forth that are always on the screen in the same place. That is where you should be careful.
post #8272 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert8252 View Post

As far as a monitor goes I never leave it on for extended times. Mainly browsing the Internet once in a blue moon, iTunes for music and movies. As for gaming, how is that bad for plasma? Just a honest question. I'd understand of you left it on a menu or something?

Any prolonged static image increases the chance of IR. The longer the static image is displayed typically the longer the IR. Many games have HUDs, health meters, scoreboards, etc. which are often the culprits. These static images also cause uneven aging of the phosphors.

I game a lot so IR was of particular concern to me. I have used two other plasmas dating back to 2006 without real issue. Some temporary IR on occasion, but nothing that I saw in regular content. I mostly noticed it if I switched to an input with no signal showing a black screen. For whatever reason(s) there have been reports that the 2011 and 2012 panels are more prone to IR. Based on my research of the ST50 some experienced it others didn't, or rarely did. There have been a few cases were some had really bad IR.

Check out the forum I mentioned as well as the link. A good starting point.
post #8273 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

I'm interested in this as well. When I made my comment about the sub-par internal speakers I wasn't aware that the ST50 had EQ settings. Live and learn.
While I intend to use an external speaker setup, it would be nice to optimize sound output of the internal speakers for when I use them.
*These EQ settings are for the American version too, right? I can't remember if Metal's set was AU, UK, or US.



Here is a photo i have taken.

This shows you what the Sound EQ settings screen looks like on Australian ST50 Panels.

ST50 EQ Settings.jpg 1435k .jpg file
post #8274 of 9972
Does anyone on here game on their ST50? Been reading more and more and haven't read anything to turn me away 100% from this set. I don't game 24/7 but I'd say once every few months I get a wild hair and might play COD, Gran Turismo, or something for a 4-6 hour session. Does anyone on here have first hand experience with gaming on this?
post #8275 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Personally, I wouldn't use a plasma as a Mac monitor.
There's an extensive FAQ in the 2012 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread page 3, post #4 on high def junkies.

I've searched and searched and can't find this thread or post on their site.
post #8276 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert8252 View Post

Does anyone on here game on their ST50? Been reading more and more and haven't read anything to turn me away 100% from this set. I don't game 24/7 but I'd say once every few months I get a wild hair and might play COD, Gran Turismo, or something for a 4-6 hour session. Does anyone on here have first hand experience with gaming on this?

Yup, and love it!
post #8277 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

Yup, and love it!
Has there ever been any extensive IR? From reading it sounds like burn in is close to non existent any more but IR is common to have. This does worry me a bit. Never had to baby a tv before but I'm willing to be cautious. Really I'm down to either the Panasonic ST50 or Samsung ES6500. Really want the plasma but am worried now that its been said not to for gaming.
post #8278 of 9972
You guys really cant provide or show me where to find some decent 3D settings? (I asked yesterday) (could not find any through google)
post #8279 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert8252 View Post

I've searched and searched and can't find this thread or post on their site.

I've now found this but don't see anything wrong with using the Mac on it. Only the extra step of formatting the flash drive for the slides. Nothing about it not working.
post #8280 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMX23 View Post

Here is a photo i have taken.
This shows you what the Sound EQ settings screen looks like on Australian ST50 Panels.
ST50 EQ Settings.jpg 1435k .jpg file
Nice. I'm jealous.
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