Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 305

A true pro calibration is more involved and can take upwards of 4 hours, what best buy offers is time compressed and not always good unfortunately. Just so I don't misrepresent anything the cuts and drives I mentioned are only part of gray scale calibration. There are lots of other pieces to a good cal, for example gamma, maximizing contrast ratio, color calibration etc

I was under the impression that even in the ST50 service menu there was not other calibrations available outside of a two point greyscale (i.e. no CMS, no 10 point gamma, etc.).

Of course, and I remember reading that BB only allows for a limited time for any given calibration. I was also aware a good calibration took a few hours, I know they provide a full service for the money. I just thought they made changes in the service menu that you wouldn't be able to replicate in the user menu (for custom at least). You're saying that all of those elements can be done in just the user menu though, correct?

There are no additional controls in the service menu that are already available in the user menu (ST50). That's not to say that the ST50 doesn't benefit from a calibration, or that anyone can calibrate their ST50... you still need a measuring device to tell you what changes need to be made to make the picture accurate.

Yes the ST50 is a pretty straight forward calibration. Many higher-end models have 10pt or 20pt white balance/gamma controls, which takes A LOT longer to do compared to a 2pt system. Some sets also have a color management system to dial in the color gamut. Some sets need to be calibrated in the service menu. So all in all, there is a lot more to calibration, depending on the available controls.

I'm also curious why best buy calibrates cinema mode... there's no gamma control and you need to access the service menu. I know some experienced calibrators calibrate in the service menu anyway, so that the customer doesn't mess with the settings... maybe GS calibrates cinema for the same reason.

Very good point. Higher end models are much better candidates.

My settings are very similar to yours. My tv was also calibrated in cinema mode and the grayscale was done in the service menu. Though my calibration was done by one of the calibrators on here not Best Buy.

Can you list what service menu changes were made?

Did he provide you with calibration charts that you could post?

A good calibration does take time, skill and art. If you use the link in the signature area at the bottom of my post, you'll find the first two posts in that thread are lists of links to owners reaction to their calibration and some information about the professionals who did the work.

I've included every report that I've been able to locate where the calibrator was identified by an AVS user name, and almost without exception, the owners have been satisfied. Of course that doesn't include the reports about free BB-GS calibrations. Many think they are too expensive.

I thought you were surprised that anyone would pay for a calibration that didn't involve going into the service menu.

Agreed. I just meant that I thought they made changes completely different from what I could do in my own menu. Yes, their results are going to be more accurate, but I wonder how much better it could really look if that's only the case. Personally I think what defines the picture is the right balance of contrast/brightness and gamma. I can't say I really care about accurate colors as long as I know what it is I'm looking at. Of course that's not the case for everyone, and some people settle for nothing less than reference.

Now... if I paid 2-3 thousand, then I might owe it to myself to get it looking perfect.

So if you paid say $1k for your plasma you still wouldn't want the best PQ possible? PQ that might rival or better a $2-3k plasma.

Bill

If they can cut my black levels in half with that calibration too, sure.

No one is trying to sell you a calibration.

Based on my AVS reading, the people who are most interested in professional calibration are the same people who are most interested in film and movie making. For those people seeing the movie as close to what the director intended is worth the cost of a calibration.

As for price, a good example would be the ST/GT50 models. When they first came out it was possible to have a 65" ST50 and have it calibrated for very close to the price of the 65" GT50 out of the box. According to D-Nice, the calibrated GT50s were no more accurate than the calibrated ST50s. Given that choice, the movie lovers would chose the ST50 with a calibration. Others who were primarily interested in TV might have paid the extra money for the GT50 because it's bezel is more attractive and it might look better in their home. My guess is that most of people who paid upward of $8,000 for a 70" Sharp Elite, didn't bother with a professional calibration, but those who did are very happy with the results.

Based on the calibration reports that I've collected, the people who wanted a calibration for the right reasons, and used someone with good references were happy with the results.

Without an interest in the "director's intent", I see no reason for most people to do more than use a do it yourself calibration disk to get normal looking faces and grass. In fact, most HDTV owners have never even thought about doing even that much.
Edited by htwaits - 3/9/13 at 1:02am

Just happened to see this before catching some sleep.

Fair points, I agree. I was simply referencing the VT50 in response to his question.

I can agree with that. I was just surprised is all, meant no offense to calibrators.

here ya go. and no, you cant get the calibration just by using the normal tv's settings. all this was done i the service menu setting. i think he was here for about 3 hrs or a bit longer. the pq is deffinately better.

As Left Calibration Settings:
Manufacturer: Panasonic
Model: TCP55ST50
Manufacturer: XRite
Model: Chroma5
Manufacturer: Sencore
Model: Sencore VideoPro
400 Series (RS232)
Picture Mode: Cinema
Color Temp: Warm
Gamma: NA
Backlight: NA
Brightness: 51
Contrast: 90
Color: 48

Low Red: Pre 80/Post 85
Low Green: Pre 80/Post 7E
Low Blue: Pre 80/Post 7E
High Red: Pre FD/Post FD
High Blue: Pre 77/Post 7E
High Green: Pre FF/Post F7

2.4792 5.2614 9.199 14.8771 21.0088 28.6228 38.9468 49.7851 62.6945
x 0.3029 0.2992 0.301 0.3026 0.3038 0.3053 0.3056 0.3077 0.3067
CCT 7140.1106 7417.2415 7313.8967 7148.3932 7093.5379 6980.1276 6944.0013 6811.8039 6883.4025
RedPercent 92.4102 89.4528 91.5161 91.7514 93.3383 94.5288 94.311 96.0814 95.4408
GreenPercent 100.4743 100.6256 99.1659 101.3153 99.8331 99.8844 100.8255 100.4003 100.1313
BluePercent 107.1155 109.9217 109.318 106.9332 106.8287 105.5868 104.8635 103.5183 104.4279
dEuv 8.7126 12.1234 11.2177 8.7676 8.2495 6.753 6.124 4.3646 5.3912
GammaPoint 2.0128 2.0659 2.105 2.089 2.1276 2.1863 2.1226 2.1778 2.2



it not reall letting me copy/paste the info on here. and i cany post the pdf file i got as it has my name and addy on it. like ther color graphs, gama scale, ect. i was worried when he put the color analyzer on my tv screen. lol was worried it was gonna scratch it. lol

Just sent you a PM,with the answer.

Yes you can, as we've already discussed. This was done in Custom mode... didn't touch the service menu. Some calibrators choose to use Cinema mode for whatever reason, but most use Custom mode on the ST50.

edit: nm, I'm guessing you meant that your settings can only be used in the service menu... if so, disregard the above. FWIW, your settings are useless for others even in the service menu because service menu settings are different from panel to panel... you must know how many 'clicks' up or down your calibrator changed each setting to be useful for others. Just a warning for anyone that's thinking about going into the service menu and trying your settings.
The numbers above are most likely pre-calibration.
Edited by rahzel - 3/9/13 at 5:39pm

One thing I noticed with my ST50 65" last night was how much it flickered during hockey on camera flashes but it is almost like it blinks out during them is the best way I can describe it. Though it just may be the way my eyes perceive the change. I assume the set is hitting the ABL? Anyway pretty annoying I must say I hadn't noticed this before but haven't watched much hockey either. Oh well I got it for movies anyways as I was tired of floating blacks on my G20. This is the only annoyance with the set so far just wondered how much others have noticed it?

Cam

A lot of people who watch hockey have commented on it.

Hello all, I have a question and I understand my ignorance will be laughed at but here it goes anyway-
If I change the the input label to GAME (for my 360) does that switch the Panny to the game mode? I'm a new owner and play the Xbox 360 first person shooters and it appears to have some input lag.

No, you need to access the Picture settings in the menu and choose, " Game" mode. Just naming the input label does not enable game mode.

And to the above posts on hockey, I too have the annoying brightness fluctuations watching hockey games on my 60ST50.

Really? I always thought there was vast differences between the way a xbox 360 and Ps3 outputs color.

so your trying to tell me he could have made ALL the adjustments in custom mode (which has a blueish tint) vs making adjustments in cinema mode. sorry not buying it, unless your a qualified calibrator WITH all those fancy diagnostic equipement to dial in a picture. ill stick wiht my FREE BB calibration. cause from MY eye it looks better. i can physically see a difference in PQ. and if you dont know my background, i inspect show car paint work for one of the big3 auto companies and i will find paint blems most others cant see. so my eye sight is well above average.

That is not a brightness fluctuation. Its camera flashes/strobes at the game. I had true Fbr on my last Samsung 8000 (returned it because of it). The ABL would cause the whole screen to brighten and darken randomly during hockey, not flash. My GT50 had no Fbr issues, but i do see the camera flashes. They are exaggerated but don't bother me much.

Well you have to go into the SM for Cinema. If it was Custom he could have done it in the user menu though.

Whether he could have made the two settings look identical, I can't say.

It's the 360 that generally outputs an incorrect picture... the 360's gamma for games is generally wrong. The PS3 outputs everything as it should, assuming everything is set correctly. That's why a lot of 360 games have crushed blacks and overblown whites. Sure it looks punchy and vibrant, but it's wrong.
Believe whatever you want to believe. But FWIW, I do have measuring equipment (i1Display Pro / i1 Display 3) that's considered better than what Bestbuy used for your calibration (Chroma 5). To calibrate a display, you essentially need three things: 1. a measuring device (colorimeter, spectrometer) 2. test patterns (calibration disc or pattern generator) and 3. calibration software (CalMAN, Chromapure, HCFR). You don't need ISF or THX certification to own the equipment professionals use. I'm not THX or ISF certified, but I have been calibrating for a few years now. And on the topic of equipment, professionals (and even many DIY calibrators) have higher quality equipment than what BB GS typically uses (which again is the Chroma 5) There are some DIY calibrators that are more capable than BB's GeekSquad (generally speaking as GS calibrations vary in quality).

The only controls the ST50 has in the service menu are the GAINS and CUTS, which are essentially the same as W/B High and W/B Low in the Pro settings menu in Custom mode. The purpose of these settings are to balance Red, Green and Blue so that your set is displaying white correctly (D65 for REC.709) which is why it's appropriately called White Balance. Custom mode actually has more control over the picture than Cinema mode does, because Custom mode has a gamma slider whereas Cinema mode has essentially no control over the gamma.

Look at the link I posted above. I was able to calibrate my ST50 to dEuv 1.5 (grayscale) and dE94 1.3 (color gamut) in Custom mode. Delta E u'v' and Delta E 94 are commonly used error reporting formulas used for grayscale and color gamut calibration... the lower the number the better. Typically you aim to get dE under 2-3. Compare those numbers to your GS calibration and tell me again that a good calibration can't be done in the user menu. For reference, the numbers you posted above have an avg dEuv of ~7.96, which is why I said that those numbers are most likely pre-calibration measurements.

Look, I'm not judging the quality of your calibration so I don't know why you're being so defensive. Seeing as how your calibrator was there for ~3 hours, he was probably better than most GS calibrators. I'm just stating the fact that a perfectly good calibration can be done in the user menu on the ST50 (and many sets these days) because all of the available controls are in the user menu.
Edited by rahzel - 3/10/13 at 5:23pm

I noticed this for the first time recently. It was probably the third time I watched hockey. Every few seconds the screen flashes. The difference that particular time was that I was watching in a completely dark room. The other times when I didn't notice it was during the day and/or with light on.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I'll calibrate on Ps3 gaming mode using my Disney WOW disc and hopefully I can use this on PC.