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Assassin's Creed 3! - Page 2

post #31 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Here's an article on the game that suggests the game has a lot more Colonist killing gameplay in the Revolutionary War than the early previews reveal. I was interested in this being my first AC game after seeing E3 footage, but it looks like I'll pass on it.

I didn't see any hyperlinked text in your post. Can you please provide the link.

As much of an AC fan I am (currently playing Revelations again) and have shared in the initial excitement over this game, I've been losing my warm fuzzy feeling for it. As a historical period and setting, I'm not as interested in colonial America as I would be for, say, France during the Revolution or even an Asian setting, and I prefer not to play games where intentionally killing "innocents" (including animals) is a big mandatory part of the game. I'm sure I'll pick this up regardless to continue the main story arc, but it's looking more and more like it will be a bargain bin purchase at this point.
post #32 of 230
^^^^ It's probably this article:

http://kotaku.com/5918810/can-americans-not-handle-the-sight-of-their-ancestors-being-killed-in-assassins-creed
post #33 of 230
Quote:


Thanks!

Well, if he's just killing templars (regardless of side of the Revolution) , I can understand that and won't be bothered by it. I also understand not giving away major plot points to show the full range of gameplay elements. I normally go on a media blackout for a game like this, and I in fact have yet to see a trailer or gameplay demo since the very first tease trailer that was released.
post #34 of 230
Sorry about that. I edited my post. The Kotaku link was the correct one.
post #35 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Here's an article on the game that suggests the game has a lot more Colonist killing gameplay in the Revolutionary War than the early previews reveal. I was interested in this being my first AC game after seeing E3 footage, but it looks like I'll pass on it.
I saw someone else on another board mention a similar reaction. Odd. Curious if you'd be willing to elaborate. If not, that's cool.

I've certainly had my own ideological issues with certain games (RE5, for example), but that had nothing to do with the killing itself. It had to do with the racist portrayal of Africans. I've seen nothing that suggests anything unfairly biased against the British colonists in the game. From what I understand (and based on the prior AC games), the British colonists won't be any better or worse than the British soldiers or the Native Americans or the African slaves or any other peoples that are likely in the game. In my experience with the first AC and with AC2, the development team is smart about how it deals with different ethnic, racial, and national groups.

If anything, the running theme behind the Assassin's Creed series is: "We're all equally human. We need to stop fighting each other and watch out for the evil bastards manipulating us into hating each other." It's a remarkably awesome and optimistic series. Brotherhood and Revelations aren't quite as good or interesting. But the team working on AC3 are the same folks behind the first two, so I expect it will be equally awesome, smart, and sensitive.

I wouldn't let a knee-jerk reaction against killing British colonials keep you from playing the game. It's likely more complex than you think.

EDIT: But maybe that's just me. As a person of color, I've grown up watching movies, tv shows, and games where the plot is driven by a white dude killing a bunch of people with darker skin. Maybe I'm just used to images of people not like me killing people like me. AC3 seems interesting in that it turns the tables for once.

wink.gif
Edited by confidenceman - 6/17/12 at 9:44pm
post #36 of 230
Nothing I say or do is "knee jerk", but if that's how you came to your RE5 conclusions then I suppose that's you.

I had no problem with RE5, and if others are excited about AC3 that's their choice. I won't be buying this game.
Edited by joeblow - 6/18/12 at 8:01am
post #37 of 230
As an American, I've never really understood the American double standard on this sort of thing. It also seems inconsistently applied. Few people get up in arms about games that let you play as the Nazis, Japanese, or Russians during the 1940s-70s era where you wind up killing Americans, but newer or older scenarios seem to stir up outrage. Maybe people are more accepting of it in multiplayer because there's a recognition that someone has to be the bad guy, but in single player it's a no-no because it's seen as a "bad message".

I don't know. I think it'd be really interesting to see more games that portray the U.S. as the bad guy, because there's a lot of sentiment to that effect in the rest of the world, and it would open up some more variety in storytelling. It's also interesting to take on a superior force from a gameplay perspective.

Anyway, I doubt this ties into AC3 much, as AC games have always let you kill anybody, and have often had Templars involved in some way in multiple sides of the historical conflicts they cover. This is no different.

- Jer
post #38 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhaines View Post

As an American, I've never really understood the American double standard on this sort of thing. It also seems inconsistently applied. Few people get up in arms about games that let you play as the Nazis, Japanese, or Russians during the 1940s-70s era where you wind up killing Americans, but newer or older scenarios seem to stir up outrage. Maybe people are more accepting of it in multiplayer because there's a recognition that someone has to be the bad guy, but in single player it's a no-no because it's seen as a "bad message".
I'm also curious. Which is why I asked the question above. My only guess is that it has to do with the sacredness of the Revolution and the Founding Fathers to some people in the US. I mean, any shooter or action game set in the United States has you killing Americans (everything from Batman to The Darkness to Prototype to Bioshock to GTA and so on), so there must be more to it than just that.

But AC3 is the first game where I've seen this come up as an issue for so many people. So all I can guess is that it has to do with the historical setting. I wonder if people will respond similarly to Bioshock Infinite--which explicitly is about the corruption and misguidedness of American exceptionalism.
Edited by confidenceman - 6/18/12 at 9:51am
post #39 of 230
Anyone who played ACII and Brotherhood learned through the puzzle sequences that some of the US Presidents, industrialists, financiers, and inventors were complicit, if not leading figures, in the templar's efforts, so there should be no surprises in terms of sacrosanct historical figures turning out to be "bad guys." But also as we've seen, sometimes templar agents are under the control and influence of people higher up the chain and aren't really aware of what they are doing or they feel they have no choice to protect what they see as the greater good. It's often not black and white in this game, and it's also always possible that someone will change sides, so it will be interesting to see the shades of grey ACIII presents regarding US history. I think I'm starting to get excited again.
post #40 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zookster View Post

Anyone who played ACII and Brotherhood learned through the puzzle sequences that some of the US Presidents, industrialists, financiers, and inventors were complicit, if not leading figures, in the templar's efforts, so there should be no surprises in terms of sacrosanct historical figures turning out to be "bad guys." But also as we've seen, sometimes templar agents are under the control and influence of people higher up the chain and aren't really aware of what they are doing or they feel they have no choice to protect what they see as the greater good. It's often not black and white in this game, and it's also always possible that someone will change sides, so it will be interesting to see the shades of grey ACIII presents regarding US history. I think I'm starting to get excited again.
And just as often, we learned that certain figures were assasssins, but usually those were the figures who "lost" in history. Tesla was an assassin and Edison a templar, for example. I don't remember how it broke down for the American founders, but I do remember that those divisions existed among them, as well. And for anyone who's played the series, you know that often what you think is "true" often gets turned on its head. After all, the actual "creed" of the assassins is: "nothing is true. everything is permitted" (which comes from the historical founder of the real assassins).

Conspiracies within conspiracies within conspiracies. What could be more devoutly "American" than that? wink.gif
Edited by confidenceman - 6/18/12 at 10:58am
post #41 of 230
I don't understand why they think we wouldn't want to kill the colonists. They were nothing but a bunch of tax evading traitors anyway.


smile.gif

By the way, I just found this snippet with a quick Google search:
Quote:
Socialism. It wasn’t called socialism in those days, but that is what it was – unlimited government control and taxation of everything and everybody. There were no free markets and no free enterprise. Regardless of how honest or hard working a person was, it did him little good unless he was in bed with the government.

Didn't take us very long to screw that up. I'm trying to find anything about today's America that doesn't fit in perfectly with the above description. Not having any luck so far.
post #42 of 230
Tax rates are far lower now than they've ever been.

Also, this conversation is turning uncomfortably political. Could we talk about the game instead?
post #43 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Tax rates are far lower now than they've ever been.
Also, this conversation is turning uncomfortably political. Could we talk about the game instead?

I'm betting Connor doesn't pay taxes. tongue.gif
post #44 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zookster View Post

I'm betting Connor doesn't pay taxes. tongue.gif
That's okay. As a person of mixed race, he wouldn't be able to vote either--even after the successful establishment of the supposedly "democratic" Republic.

That's why he always carries an axe. wink.gif
post #45 of 230
Quote:

Christ in a hand bag....

Honestly, if lifetime kill 1,345,002 is some fisherman from colonial America, does it really make a flipping difference? Killing gang bangers and hookers in GTA is fine, along with murdering military service members in COD/BF.

Seriously, who ever started this dreck needs to sent to the gallows. In a world where 98% of games put a gun in your hand and tell you to get killing, this is now an issue? Please. save the outrage.
post #46 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by blklightning View Post

I don't understand why they think we wouldn't want to kill the colonists. They were nothing but a bunch of tax evading traitors anyway.
smile.gif
By the way, I just found this snippet with a quick Google search:
Quote:
Socialism. It wasn’t called socialism in those days, but that is what it was – unlimited government control and taxation of everything and everybody. There were no free markets and no free enterprise. Regardless of how honest or hard working a person was, it did him little good unless he was in bed with the government.
Didn't take us very long to screw that up. I'm trying to find anything about today's America that doesn't fit in perfectly with the above description. Not having any luck so far.

Not to go all politics on AVS, but that quote seems to be from someone with a woefully inaccurate opinion of history.

True fact: the Boston tea party wasn't about taxes imposed, but Boston anger at parliament for reducing tariffs on East India Tea Company's imports in colonial ports, thus making it cheaper than what the local smaller tea merchants could do. The colonist were mad that they didn't have representation in parliament, and couldn't block the removal of the tariff. IE, support their small, local merchants over the behemoth EITC which could undercut their prices.

So yeah, the Boston Tea Party was a result of the English lowering taxes and tariffs, not increasing them, and the colonist wanting to raise them.... if were going to talk of taxes. (Really, it was about representation and governance)

Anyways, history lesson off. Pass it on, I hate when people get our history WRONG for their own small ideological points.
post #47 of 230
Interesting. Thanks for the post.
post #48 of 230
Serious props to game designers like those behind Bioshock and Assassin's Creed who insist on presenting a challenging (if fictional) version of accepted history. Even if off topic, it's cool that this game can spark this kind of discussion. Between AC3 and Bioshock Infinite, I imagine the historical and political discussion will continue to ramp up across the gaming spectrum over the next six months.

One thing I always appreciated about Assassin's Creed is that it understands the enormous power behind history and who has the power to tell it. The "Pieces of Eden" are virtual manifestations of that power. Whoever holds them, holds power over people's minds and can shape how others understand the past. That's incredibly powerful. The designers haven't chosen these moments in history arbitrarily.
post #49 of 230
It's like the dev saw the good in MGS as said, we can make a better western take on it that blends fiction and reality a bit better.
post #50 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

It's like the dev saw the good in MGS as said, we can make a better western take on it that blends fiction and reality a bit better.

I don't see any resemblance between this and Metal Gear.
post #51 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by blklightning View Post

I don't see any resemblance between this and Metal Gear.
They share quite a few things in common IMO. And the cross-branding between the two makes me think that the developers of both series know it.

Stealth gameplay. Elaborate conspiracies. Increasingly nonsensical plots. Assassin's Creed is basically one part MGS, one part Sly Cooper 2, and one part Crackdown. wink.gif
post #52 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by blklightning View Post

I don't see any resemblance between this and Metal Gear.

You don't see the mixture of real history, shady secret organizations shaping history, and protagonists stuck in the thick of it all?

Sure it's not about nuclear war and mechs, but it's the same kind of PATRIOTS thread running in the background. That true history is a facade placed over the will and actions of shady governoring groups with interests that don't always align with those of the legitimate governments.
post #53 of 230
Yeah, but Snake isn't jumping off 20 story buildings to assassinate his targets. It's a more traditional stealth game mixed with some gun play. AC is more action oriented with the excellent melee combat and overall good platforming elements. At their core, yes they both have stealth and conspiracy theories. But really, they're not the same game at all.
post #54 of 230
Oh, was deff not talking about the gameplay mechanics. Just the plot/themes/direction of their stories.
post #55 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by blklightning View Post

Yeah, but Snake isn't jumping off 20 story buildings to assassinate his targets. It's a more traditional stealth game mixed with some gun play. AC is more action oriented with the excellent melee combat and overall good platforming elements. At their core, yes they both have stealth and conspiracy theories. But really, they're not the same game at all.
I agree i don't see the distinction at all in the gameplay. The first AC was definitely the most challenging; you actually had to think about your attack plan. IMO AC is as the only comparable title. After that Ezio became more of a Rambo dispatching ten or so enemies at a time at will. MSG never played like that and I can’t see the comparison. In game play..
post #56 of 230
Spam bot fail...
post #57 of 230
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Spam bot fail...

Indeed, though they can be fun to mess with.
post #58 of 230

15
post #59 of 230
This game is a shoe in for Game of the Year. Can't wait to play it.
post #60 of 230
Forum seems to be getting hit by a few not-so-stealthy marketers today. rolleyes.gif
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