Originally Posted by noah katz
Curt, I’d appreciate feedback on the following plan for speaker placement.
The surrounds are now as shown in the pic; left side speakers mirror the right.
I put the side surrounds where they are because it’s close to what the ITU/972 manual recommends, and so Trinnov wouldn’t have to work so hard to re-map them.
But now, after your additional explanations and ensuing discussion, I wonder if a more useful way to think about it is that Trinnov will try to create phantom images where they belong over 360 deg azimuth (not sure about the very back though).
Therefore it would be better to have more even angular spacing of the surrounds, which I could do by moving the sides from the back edge of the fireplace to the front.
Is that about right?
Yes you could try it. Also- the mic in the pic looks too far forward, as its 3-4 ft in front of listening position.
Another possibility, which would give me back two of the speakers I removed after the Denon 4311:
- Use a phantom center to free up one channel (assuming I don’t have the same issue as Chris).
You won't have Chris' issue because you have the minimum 5 speakers connected for surround remapping.
- Connect the two surround back speakers to one amp channel, freeing up another one
Yes, I would give this a try- when cal, aim the speakers directly at mic if needed to get a good cal, then aim away if you like. Same for sides. Keep in mind, as you aim away, the hi's will roll off or vice versa. For film, not so bad to rolloff, ITU (music) you want to keep them aiming at listener to maintain EQ.
- Use the two newly available channels for a pair of front speakers, located at the former Audyssey DSX wides' locations at 60 deg azimuth from the center speaker and about a foot above ear height, or at the former Audyssey DSX heights locations' at45 deg azimuth from the center speaker and 45 deg elevation from the listening position (see pic), or somewhere in between.
I see pic, but not the spkr with 45 azmith, 45 elevation.
Speaking of height channels, the user notes say
"Trinnov 9.1 with height
Some of you want more channels, up to 9.1- typically to fill in long rectangular rooms. The best way to accommodate
more channels such as 9.1 is to share the side outputs with two speakers each, thereby leaving the rear outputs for use
as height channels in the front."
To be clear, this is intended only to correct soundstage height errors, as with a below-screen center speaker, not to expand the soundstage height as with DPL IIz or Audyssey DSX - right?
You are on the right track, but the answer is not so simple as we imagine. Some like to say Trinnov creates imaginary speakers. We don't. We create cohesive spatial images based on existing speaker locations. An example: lets consider a soundtrack has a pinpoint sound at 60degees right. If you want to hear that sound with spatial accuracy and there is no speaker there, say they are where they should be at 30 and 120 deg= 90 deg apart. You'd have to be in exact the sweet spot to hear the image correctly. Move sideways to the image and it will shift accordingly (like a stereo image would) because the speakers creating the image are widely spaced. Now consider what happens if you place a speaker at 60 degrees with Trinnov spatial correction. Trinnov places the spatial sound created for 60 deg there, and one can move beyond the sweet spot and still correctly hear it. Place the speakers where you want high spatial accuracy. Within the limitations of the variables, you'll get it.
A very interesting thing happens when no speaker duplicates the original content's placement: the image floats. Example you are about to try: 4 speakers across the front. Image content is +22/0/-22 degrees. Speakers placed at +40/+15/-15/-40 could be very interesting. It's an alternative the "W" discussed in the User Notes.
Where the content has specific height information- a decoder is required. Where one is comparing playback formats with synthesized channels, be it Yamaha or others, by all means, examine the possibilities with Trinnov. With 3D we do use a form of height to build the image. Placing height channels with Trinnov will give a sense of vertical openness/space and it's very effective. In the real world, we don't listen to sounds in only one plane, its 3D.
This should answer your question in your later post regarding the difference between autoroute and 2D/3D. Autoroute has no spatial manipulation other then locating speakers and fixing mis-cabled systems where 2D/3D is not used.