R972 Trinnov User Notes - Page 10

When I tested the 972 two years ago I ran it with all the various surround modes including PLIIx. With Trinnov. Remapping adds no extra burden to the run-time DSP, just some extra calculations when creating the filters.

So you finally got your unit and set it up? What do you think (besides it being da bomb)?

Hmmm....so the Pro unit typically had about twice the filter taps as the 972.Sounds just like the same difference between the Audyssey XT equipped AVR's and the Pro units I have now.

It's looking like the 972's EQ isn't going to have the same type of correction resolution that I'm currently using now,just like the AVR Audysssey XT version is half the resolution of SEQ.

That's one of the reasons I'm skeptical about the 972's room correction being that beneficial to my system,but I'm still intrigued about the remapping.....what to do....what to do.

I've also been contemplating about the possibility of hooking the 972's pre-amp outputs to the MC-12's 5.1 analog inputs and having them re-digitize the signal with the trims zero'd out,the distance for each channel set to 0,and the x'over's all set to Full including the sub,if it would be possible to use the MC-12's surround modes on top of the straight Trinnov room EQ.

I'm thinking it won't be possible to do properly due to having dual volume controls in the mix and I don't know if it's possible to apply processing after the room EQ without screwing up the filters.It would be a great way to get the best of both worlds with the ability to use re-mapping on one unit and logic7 on another,but seperately of course,I don't think it would work with L7 on top of re-mapping....would it?

Does Trinnov automatically override the 972's main volume control and set it to reference level for the calibration or can the volume be adjusted to any point for the calibration?

I'm not quite sure if it's possible to make this work.

Considering the price they are selling for you should easily be able to resell it for $450, thus costing you only a couple of hundred to really experiment with it. Best case scenario it does improve your system or you sell it at break even (or maybe make a small profit )

What you propose will work, just not with predictably accurate results. For room EQ and/or remapping to function as intended, they should be performed downstream of any surround processing. One loophole that you could try, however, would be to perform a Trinnov calibration with your MC-12 in circuit and set to your desired Logic 7 mode. That would limit you to one Logic 7 mode per calibration memory, and the odd combination might still function sub optimally.

AJ

You're using that criteria as part of your decision? Nevermind that is isn't just filter resolution but how audessey xt32 filters were implemented in their higher frequency range corrections.

You bring up a good point I didn't think of it like that.




That's exactly how I was thinking of using the two.I just don't know exactly how to go about doing the calibration process with the two in the signal chain with both volume controls.Could you help me in this regard.I think I'm going to order one of these today

Thanks!

My MC-12 would be connected directly to my active studio monitors via unbalanced RCA's.The MC-12 also has input gain control.Does the 972 send out it's calibration signal at typical 75dB reference level?

Curt,

Does the version of Trinnov in the 972 do all of the same correction described here?

http://www.trinnov.com/technologies/...ic-correction/

Using mine as a pre/pro and it does get very warm, not hot.

My MC-12 runs pretty warm without a cooling fan.With the cooling fan it just gets mildly warm.My rack is a Sanus eurorack which is very open in design.I just don't have enough shelf space to fit the beast with it's feet attached.Only have 8 inches of clearance.

Curt,

Can the balance/fader,bass/treble,and tilt controls on the MC-12 be used on top of the remapped signal?

Also,does the Trinnov EQ optimize the crossover blend between the speakers and the sub or does it just report the -6dB point and correct each individually?

I already have; I traded the center and one of the back channels for a pair at +/-70, near ceiling height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
There's only been 2 or 3 7.1 BD's, and I expected more based on what reviews said about the surround mix.


Sorry, poorly worded on my part; I meant I've only heard 2 or 3 on the 972.

Yes, using 3D remapping.


Correct, I was mistaken about that.

I was confused by a backwards reading of the chart in the manual of which types of inputs allow which speakers to be active, combined with not understanding the 972's control and display behavior.

I discovered with a more thorough reading of the manual that the front panel Surround button toggles Auto Surround off and on; when on it disallows certain modes.

And if the mode knob is then turned the display will say "Trinnov surround", and, if in Auto Surround, sometimes only that instead of surround modes.

Returning to back surrounds:

Leaving aside notable passages such as you mention above, how often do your back surrounds make a worthwhile contribution?

Using the last chapter of the Super Speedway BD, which has multiple occurrences of the camera looking down the road and the car zooming from behind and past, the only way I could hear anything from the backs was to stand right next to one, with disconnect the side surrounds about 6' ahead of them disconnected.

I tried Trinnov set to both Cinema and Music; this is a DTS HD disc so the only playback options is DTS HD Master.

I'd sure like to hear others' experiences are with the back speakers, or is no one else using them?


Now that I've got surround mode selection straightened out I'll try some of my 5.1 discs using DPL IIx and report back.

Actually I guess that should be DPL EX, since I have only one back channel.

Academic question, but Curt, do you know what Trinnov would do with DPL IIx's stereo backs with my single back setup?

All the time. No exaggeration. My rear speakers are always producing something. Only sounds that were mixed exclusively into the left OR right surround channel are limited to my sides speakers. Any sounds that were shared between surround channels, even a little, will start showing up in my rear speakers, either slightly or completely (dual-mono sounds).

In my experience, there are just as many shared sounds as there are exclusive sounds, meaning my rear speakers are as active as my side speakers. There are rare exceptions: the recent movie 'Super 8' has a discrete 7.1 mix that uses the back channels so sparingly that, when there isn't the occasional sound effect behind me, my rear speakers are silent. Very unusual.

PLIIx Music will only output 6.1 signals if 6.1 speakers are available. There is no PLIIx Movie mode for 6.1, as that's exactly the definition of Surround EX.

Curt,

Trinnov in the 972,does it do it's calculations at 48khz sampling?

When using the 3D remapping SMPTE cinema setting does Trinnov try to remap and recreate the multiple side and real wall speaker pattern used in dubbing stages even when only using 2 rear channel surrounds?

I also have a question about the 0 +3dB +6dB hex files.Can they be unloaded from the 972 if you don't like the result?



Thanks

I believe that the Trinnov implementation in the 972 does its calculations at the incoming sample rate. However, I do not know if the 972 has a sample rate limitation (e.g. can all facets of Trinnov be applied to 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz, and 192 kHz sample rates).


As I understand it, you can load only one bass curve at a time. If you apply the +3 dB curve but wish to revert, just load the 0 dB curve, which is the default.

AJ

You're using Logic 7, right?


Hmm, no Surround EX on the 972.

It might not matter anyhow, as who knows how 972/Trinnov would treat it.

As far as I can tell, with Trinnov engaged all manual speaker settings are ignored; when I set the 972 to have only L/R and surrounds, running Trinnov sent bursts to all 7 speakers and they were all active with Trinnov engaged.

Only for 2-channel music. But for what we're discussing (multi-channel movie soundtracks) I use PLIIx.

Hi Noah!

Tech for Sherwood said yesterday that channel volume can be adjusted, post Trinnov, via rs232. Have you had the opportunity to try that?

Thank you very much

Fury

OK; I haven't had a chance to try any 5.1/DPLIIx yet


Well *that's* interesting.

What exactly would I plug into the RS232 port and what would the procedure be?

K. So You would plug an RS232 cable into the port (straight thru per tech), which would most commonly be connected to a Crestron or Control 4/similar device to transmit the strings.

The discrete commands are available from Sherwood.

Thank you very much

Fury

This isn't really R972 Trinnov User Notes related but I assume nobody would mind if I posted the RS232 commands? Attached.

 

Mod R772 protocol(RS232).xls.zip 69.9951171875k . file