R972 Trinnov User Notes - Page 2

Thanks, Curt.

I am awaiting a replacement unit, since this one is having some remote and HDMI issues, and will try your suggestions when the new one arrives.

At the same time, the subwoofer sounds really good -- it goes deep, but it is considerably better blended in than before.

In fact, everything sounds very noticeably better in my TV room -- I may sound like a fanboy, but Trinnov 3D is making such a dramatic difference for the better over Audyssey MultiEQ XT (and over no correction at all), that I am giddy

Watched My Week with Marilyn last night and my wife actually noted how good the sound is -- she called it "much smoother," which I attribute to the blending of the speakers that Trinnov does. The "Height" speakers blend perfectly, too -- basically the whole room is "alive" with sound, without making the locations of the specific speakers apparent, unless I stick my ear next to each speaker. Kind of amazing!

Haven't run Trinnov Optimizer in the Stereo room yet, will do it when the new receiver gets here. But the 7.1 + Stereo switching you suggested seems to works well with the Niles Audio SPK-1.

That's good to know. I kept trying to get it to detect the sub after I re-calibrated. But why did it show me the angle (90 deg.) on previous calibrations? Fluke?

Well, got my R-972 hooked up. Let's just say that it hates my Martin Logan Electromotion speakers. (even toed them in way more than I should) Doesn't calculate anything finfo for them, just dashes. Has my sub crossed over at 19hz. Trying to manually do the trim level without trinnov since it can't find two of my speakers and even that seems a bit cumbersome. HDMI seems to work pretty well. So far, this will not replace my Anthem MRX in the main room. Maybe just a bedroom piece.

I'm waiting for a R-972...

I have dipole speakers though, Linkwitz Orion's. Will that be a problem for Trinnov..? I'm a bit worried about the post above since Martin Logan are dipoles as well...

Also, will it also be possible to use a non-matching , closed or ported centerchannel, and let Trinnov magically match that with the Orions..?? Will I get the 360-degree bubble....?

Thanks,
CH

Don't think it's a dipole/Martin Logan issue as I just returned from setting up a friend's system with a 972 and ML Prodigys. No problems, whatsoever.

Curt and other users,

I've had one to play with for a few days now and have a few questions. Last night I ran Trinnov calibration for the first time. I am only running 5.1 right now, so the computation only took about ten minutes. As I've been playing with the Trinnov settings, I've found that any of the remapping features are sucking the life out of the sound. There is hardly any bass and just an overall hollow tone. I'm wondering if there is a setup issue? I noticed after running the cal that I had my front left toed in too far, perhaps that is messing things up. With 3D remapping engaged, all dialog seems to be coming from the far right, past my front right speaker. Sort of bizzare. My center is located about 18 inches below the tweeter level of my L/R, so I was hoping the 3D remapping would help to raise the image a bit, but so far no luck.

The good news so far is that the Trinnov EQ is outstanding and with it engaged and spatial features off, the sound is great. It really tightened up my bass and took some slight muddiness from the center speaker which is inside a cabinet. This unit replaced a Marantz SR8001 that pooped out recently and the sound is definitely improved.

As other users have noted there are a few operational quirks but none are deal breakers, at least to me. Its a little sad that a flagship product can't dance beween audio codecs as gracefully as my cheapo yamaha soundbar. Its only a 2-3 second delay though, so not a huge deal. It is most noticeble during previews and menus of discs where the audio format is different each time. No clicking or cutouts once it is locked in on a movie or TV show though.

The RF remote is a nice touch, but would have been nice if it was backlit. Overall, at this price, I think this thing is a steal. Looking forward to experimenting more with speaker placement and hopefully being able to take advantage of the more advanced Trinnov features.

Thanks in advance for any help/ideas,
Matt

Can you post the optimizer results? Clearly there's a problem and the results will hopefully give some clues.

Matt,
I'm sure Curt has better ideas, but I would would try and run the calibration again if I were you. You could also try moving speakers around and or raising or lowering the height of the microphone. After I calibrated a previous time, the same thing happened where all of the center channel dialogue was coming through the left and right speakers and not the center channel at all. It didn't sound right. But I lowered the mic (making sure the mic was aimed straight ahead) and re-ran the calibration and all was well. I also raise the sub volume a little to help with the bass issue. I watched the Matrix on Blu ray last night and it sounded incredible.

Thanks for the help guys. I can post the optimizer results later. I will try lowering the mic. I have a pretty low couch, so I bought the shortest tripod I could find to position the mic at ear level. It was positioned correctly with red dot pointing at the center speaker. My setup is a little funky because I'm in a condo right now. My SR speaker is placed a couple feet forward but still to the side of the listening position. I'm wondering also if that overly toed in FL is effecting it in a negative fashion. I guess the only way to know is to rearrange and run it again. I have a passive sub run by my multichannel amp so there is no way for me to raise the bass level after calibration, but like I said with the spatial features off and Trinnov eq set to flat, the bass sounds perfect.

Thanks Curt. I will try some repositioning and see if I can get a better result. According to the initial calibration though, there were no errors locating any of the speakers and each only had three bursts. I will play with it though until I can get better results. Thanks again!

So I took Curt's advice and played with the rake on my Martin Logans so that they were 90 degrees from the floor and the mic was halfway up the panels. I still got 9 bursts for the left and rights. 3 burst for the remaining 5 speakers. Also tired toeing them in directly at the mic as well as raising and lowering the mic to see if I could get the first speaker with 3 tones. Nothing. Got better results yesterday without playing with the rake.

Speaker are not damaged at least according to the Anthem ARC file that I have from which was done two days ago after I moved the subwoofer. The left and rights are identical in the ARC file for db and feq.

Curt,
I went through another calibration and the issue of the image being pushed to the far right still remains with 2D and 3D. As I noted earlier, my setup is far from ideal, but is dictated by my room. My right surround is actually 4 feet or so in front of the listening position but to the side and facing at the mic. Left surround is behind listening position.

Here are the results from calibration:

Front L: H Angle: 46 V Angle: 95 Dist: 3.15 m
Center: H Angle: 11 V Angle: 105 Dist: 2.72 m
Front R: H Angle: -9 V Angle: 96 Dist: 3.05 m
Surround R: H Angle: -44 V Angle: 92 Dist: 2.68 m
Surround L H Angle 133 V Angle 91 Dist: 1.97 m
Sub: 0,0 Dist: 1.61 m

What's also interesting is that my -6 db point for my Fronts was said to be 80Hz. They are Linn 5140's with the upgraded Espek drivers which are rated +/- 3db down to 30 Hz. This must just demonstrate how poorly located they are in my room for bass. No complaints there though. With the Trinnov EQ set to Flat (and currently all spatial features off), the bass sounds extremely powerful and is blending well.

How is the vertical Angle determined during calibration? I had the mic height positioned roughly at ear and tweeter level, yet all of my V Angles are over 90 degrees.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Curt,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'll play around with height and aiming and see what I can come up with.

Matt

I just wanted to join the chorus of thanks to Curt for taking the time to help out, very nice.I'll also say that Trinnov is the only RC I ever used that I like

Hi Curt,

When we set up Greg's Prodigy/Velo DD-15 2.1 system, all we did was to level match the mains/sub @ ~75dB before running the 972 Trinnov setup. Unlike newer ML's the Prodigy panels are vertical by design i.e. no rake. Toe-in was as per the ML "flashlight" technique with the inner third of the panels pointed @ the LP. Calibration completed first try with no issues.

As you know, in my ML Summit system, I also have the panels set to vertical and have run a number of calibrations with no issues. This, of course, with the ST-2 Pro vs. the Sherwood. Done with jury duty, so I'll do my best to take the set of measurements we discussed, yesterday.

Ken

I've got some reconfiguring to do too. When I engaged 2D/3D mapping, the dialogue is coming most prevalent from my right surround speaker.

Talked to Curt last night, very very helpful. (outside of showing up at my house to calibrate it, he could not have been more helpful)

Have some more things to try. There is a lot of rake on the Electromotions and it's the smallest panel. You can't get the speaker vertical with the spikes and the plastic stopper. Will try to take the plastic stoppers off of the front spikes to see if I can get the spikes in further.

Maybe I'll just go buy new speakers and put these in the bedroom

Curt has been unbelievably helpful in every possible way. Since he lives and works nearby, he actually does show up at my house!

In re ML rake: I had to purchase aftermarket spikes for my Summits to get them vertical, but there should be some simple way to accomplish this just long enough to test a vertical measurement. I wouldn't give up on the EM ESL's too fast - by all accounts they're remarkable speakers.

Just a thought... At what volume level are you doing the calibration?

Not sure the volume, didn't know you you raise the volume and have it impact Trinnov setup...usually the volume for auto calibration are fixed in the software. Except for the Emo UMC which BTW, blew one of my speakers when I went ot use their calibration.

I can tell you that the volume absolutely has an effect with the ST-2 Pro. If set too low, speakers won't cal and, instead of a successful run with three bursts, it simply keeps sending bursts until it declares failure. I've only done one cal with my friend's 972 @ 75dB and it was fine. You might try turning up the volume a bit on your next try and it shouldn't have to be so loud that there's any risk of speaker damage. If you have an SPL meter, try 75-80dB bursts.

Edited to add: Meanwhile, rake angle may also be a factor as raking the stat panel back rolls off the highs. So, try fiddling with both volume and rake.

Thanks, that might explain it. I had the mic facing my speakers but I think the dot was off to the side. Seems critical that "front" and the red dot are facing up towards the ceiling.

To be clear, the red dot should be aimed where you want the center of the sound 'image'. Hence on the optimizer output you should see close to 0 degrees for the center channel if your center channel is located at the same position as your target 'center'. The mic 'pods' should be pointing up towards the ceiling.