R972 Trinnov User Notes - Page 17

Anybody please respond to post 479 ?????????????????

Thanks amt.

I did set it up as 2.0. The set up process was flawless. I had tried marantz AV7005 with the same set up but R-972 is definitely better that Audyssey XT. Had some troubles with matching upsamling in PS3 with R-972 upsampling but finally figured it out.

I think this is the best sounding DRC enabled 2.0 pre-pro....the key word here is DRC-enabled...I am not trying to start the flame war.

Thanks for the response. I didn't have to do much changes. I did calibrate many times but there was a big difference in between levels of my loud speakers and sub-woofer. Today after installing base molding, I re-calibrated and wallaaaa. The difference reduced to -2 only. I don't know how but it did. The only difference is that I changed sub woofer volume to -10db before I calibrated since it was distorting the sound on 0 db. After calibration, loud speakers came to -19db and sub came to -17db. Then I switched to 3D mapping and sub still works great.

What Room equalizer option I should be using? Currently I'm using Phile 1 (don't know what this means).

Also remote control of receiver only works when I'm pointing to it dead straight (very odd). Is there some settings I need to change to make this remote work like all others do?

Thanks.

Phile 1 only applies correction up to 300hz. Try using the Flat setting.The remote is pretty crappy and the IR receiver in the R-972 isn't very sensitive.No settings to fix that.

Actually A.Phile 2 is just correction up to 300hz. A.Phile 1 tries to match the FR of the all speakers to the front speakers.

The remote is not good at all, but I find the R-972 to work well with my trusty Home Theater Master MX-700....and it seems no less sensitive they other pieces in my setup.

So how does one decide which one to use?

Whichever sounds best to you.

Pick the one that sounds best to you.

I Knew it was one of them that corrected up to 300hz.Didn't have the manual to to check.

Steven, you know so much about the R972 So you also knew you could have been wrong. Maybe next time state that you may have it wrong, and/or list the possibilities.

No wonder I like Natural so much

Thanks for the more detailed explanation Curt.

Fly away clueless:rolleyes:

Curt, does the R-972 expect a center channel for the Trinnov measurements? I was so impressed by what Trinnov did for the soundstage for one of my systems that I got a second R-972 and this has been a much more frustrating experience.

Here's the setup

R972 in a 4.1 config
PreOut L/R -> Separate Power Amp
Rear speakers -> Direct to R972
Subwoofer -> PreOut to powered subwoofer

Using the Pixar Home Theater Optimizer as my test disc.

INPUT -> OUTPUT (TRINNOV DISABLED)
Dolby Digital Left -> Left Speaker
Dolby Digital Center -> Both Left and Right Speakers
Dolby Digital Right -> Right Speaker
Dolby Digital Surround Left -> Surround Left Speaker
Dolby Digital Surround Back -> Both Surround Left and Surround Right Speakers
Dolby Digital Surround Right -> Surround Right Speaker
Dolby Digital Subwoofer -> Subwoofer

INPUT -> OUTPUT (TRINNOV ENABLED, 2D or 3D remap or AutoRoute)
Dolby Digital Left -> Left Speaker
Dolby Digital Center -> Both Left and Right Speakers
Dolby Digital Right -> Right Speaker
Dolby Digital Surround Left -> No sound at all
Dolby Digital Surround Back -> Both Surround Left and Surround Right Speakers
Dolby Digital Surround Right -> Both Surround Left and Surround Right Speakers appropriate balance.
Dolby Digital Subwoofer -> Subwoofer


INPUT -> OUTPUT (TRINNOV ENABLED, DELAY/LEVEL or OFF for Spatial Mode)
Dolby Digital Left -> Left Speaker
Dolby Digital Center -> Both Left and Right Speakers
Dolby Digital Right -> Right Speaker
Dolby Digital Surround Left -> No sound at all
Dolby Digital Surround Back -> No sound at all
Dolby Digital Surround Right -> No sound at all.
Dolby Digital Subwoofer -> Subwoofer


I have tried it with PCM multichannel out instead of letting the Sherwood decode.

I've tried resetting the unit. Repeating calibration. Changing out rear speakers. Reflashing firmware. Nothing works.

The measurements seem accurate
Front L: 22 H, 85 V, 3.49m, -6dB @ 38Hz, -33dB, 10ms
Center : None
Front R: -22H, 86 V, 3.41m, -6db @ 38Hz, -32dB, 10ms
SurroundR: -92H, 89V, 2.03m, -6dB @ 48Hz, -18dB, 5ms
Surround Back R: None
Surround Back L: None
Surround L : 96H, 83V, 0.94m, -6dB @ 48Hz, -14dB, 2ms
Subwoofer: 90H, 0V ,5.18m, -6dB @19Hz, 0dB, 15 ms

Those are the correct distances, expected bass, and appropriate levels (since the fronts are planars and rears are not.)

If I put a center channel and recalibrate, it works as expected. Thoughts?

Alan

I have been using my second R-972 in a 4.1 channel system and it has worked fine for me.

mjaudio, have you tried running a formal sound check using a Pixar disc, video essentials, avia, or something similar?

Can't say I have but have not heard anything to indicate I should, everything sounds well balanced.

Please excuse me if I am posting this in the wrong place. On the Emotiva Forum where I am a member there is a thread that's just been started where members share their knowledge and experiences with the different room correction technologies. The predominance of the discussion seems to center around Audyssey. I have just received my R-972, but have not learned enough about Trinnov yet to contribute to the thread over there. The thread seems to be assuming that all correction technologies correct just for the time and frequency domains. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Trinnov (even in the version inside the R-972) corrects for more than just those two parameters, but I don't remember where I read that.

1) Can anyone shed any info on what domains Trinnov does affect and how that is different than Audyssey? I'm already a fan of Trinnov from just reading about it on this forum and the discussions here are what prompted me to order the R-972. Anyway, I also hope that exposure to Trinnov on Emotiva's site may spill over to more sales of the R-972 which hopefully will keep all "Trinnov Threads" everywhere alive longer.

2) Also, even though the R-972 only has one LFE it sums two subs better than most AVR's with one LFE out I read. But I can't find where I read that either. Supposedly Trinnov is unique in how it handles two subs from one LFE out and some regard it as about as good as Audyssey's Sub HT.

Any time spent in replying will be much appreciated! Thanks.

Devlon

What Trinnov adds that is different from any other EQ I know of is Spatial Re-mapping which as I understand it measures your speakers actual physical location then uses it's magic to make it sound as they are all located in there proper location for both movie and music playback. I actually tried placing my center speaker on the floor and after an Trinnov calibration it made it sound like voices were coming right out of the center of my TV, not on the floor. I am sure others can come on and explain it much better than I can, all I know is it makes my speakers sound like one cohesive sound system, no longer listening to speakers but rather a soundfield that envelops you.

The Audyssey XT32 receivers and pre-pro's that include SubEQ only adjust for delay and levels separately, once that is established the LFE signal is EQ'ed as one source which is the correct way to do it. From my personal experience XT32 with SubEQ in a Onkyo 5508 did a better job on the subs but Trinnov is not too far off. I actually prefer XT32 solely as a EQ but with it's lack of spatial re-mapping is what really set's Trinnov apart IMO.

I posted this in the main R-972 users thread but wanted to share it here as well:

The last 2 weekends I have experimented with one of my R-972s using dipole speakers for both side surrounds and rear surrounds. The speakers used were Boston Acoustics 575x for side surrounds and VRS Pro for rear surrounds. When running Trinnov, I found that the results were best when pointing the in-phase tweeters directly at the Trinnov calibration microphone. After calibration, I turned the speakers back to their original normal positioning. Before pointing the in-phase tweeters of the dipole speakers, the R-972 had to send the test signals 10 times to the dipole speakers during calibration. Sometimes it failed to identify one of the speakers. With the in-phase tweeters aimed at the microphone, the Trinnov calibration was successful after sending just 3 test signals to each speaker.

After playing with several different setups, I found that I preferred using a pair of side surrounds identical to the front 3 main speakers (All Boston Acoustics CR-8) in combination with a pair of smaller bookshelf speakers as front height speakers. The height speakers were hooked up to the R-972's rear surround speaker binding posts. As mentioned elsewhere in the R-972 Trinnov user notes thread, Trinnov adjusts for the rear surround speakers now becoming front height speakers. I really like the flexibility of the Trinnov calibration and I'll probably experiment with front wide speakers also before I finalize my speaker locations.

I want to stress the importance of resetting the R-972 before re-running Trinnov when making big changes like this. I used my iPhone to take pictures of all the setup screens so that I could very quickly re-enter settings after resetting the R-972.

Good point Tron, I also find it better to do a reset of the 972 before re-running Trinnov, if not I can get some really weird results.

Just got an R-972 not too long ago, and Trinnov is outstanding. I'm hoping more affordable solutions will become available to include Trinnov in the future, as I simply don't know how I could ever watch movies without it now. 3D remapping presents a soundstage that I haven't been able to recreate in any other config.

When you say crossover, do you mean roll-off point? I'm having a problem with my L/R speaker roll-off being calculated too high. I have 3 Sierra-1s L/C/R that go down to ~65Hz. Trinnov sets the roll-off point for the center at 80hz, but the L/R at 120. I have them flipped upside down (due to limited placement options) to keep the tweeter closer to ear level. Do you think the low end is falling out due to it's closer proximity to the ceiling? Would unflipping them, effectively putting the tweeter closer to the ceiling, give me better results since the 3D correction will hopefully bring the soundstage down?

Also, my rear left speaker doesn't make the same test tone noise as the rest of my speakers. It did for the first half a second, but every recalculation after that, it made a slightly less powerful sound than the rest (not volume, but texture). Did the receiver incorrectly mark my speaker out of phase and swap the polarity? It took 6 complete calculations for the Trinnov to come up with H and V angles for that particular speaker. The first 5 it only calculated distance. Any trouble shooting tips to help resolve the problem?

 

Never had the exact same issue but when the EQ numbers looked funny I always did a factory reset... which typically got the numbers back (except for one unit that never reflected anything but the Fronts) to where they belonged. I have wondered since the numbers appear to go South after so x attempts does the EQ processing do the same thing... get corrupted at some point?