Yessongs on Blu-ray with New DTS HD MA 5.1 Remix - Page 2

[quote=JimWinVA;21897902...it suffers from the tempo lag that has been an increasing problem for the band as they've aged.[/QUOTE]


LOL. If you check out the 'Making Of' bonus DVD that comes with the deluxe edition of Fly From Here your words could not be more prophetic. The entire band has these gigantic Lay-Z-Boy recliners that they spend most of their time in while in the studio. In fact, they don't spend too much time standing!


Time is a cruel mistress my friends!

I won't be checking out anything FFH-related; I am boycotting the current line-up. Have always been a huge Yes fan but the recent tours have shown that those remaining in what is called Yes have little respect for their musical legacy, little respect for their fans and little respect for what made them: it's supposed to be about the music...

How many line up changes have there been in the last 40 years? It seems like hundreds. I gave up worrying about these guys a long time ago. There is only one constant about Yes- if you don't like the current line up, wait 6 months there will be a new one!

Who knows, the next time Anderson and Wakeman come back maybe they'll bring Bruford with them!

I believe BB has retired from touring.
There have been credible reports that JA and RW have been working with Trevor Rabin, but his work on soundtracks keeps him too busy to do any touring.

I am used to Yes changing line-ups, but w/o JA it is not Yes, IMHO. But beyond that, there's the way they unceremoniously dumped him as they were too impatient for the money grab to wait for him to heal, then hired a tribute band singer (!!!) to replace him, who couldn't cut the mustard at all (and has since been replaced by another tribute band singer) and the band is just performing way below the elevated levels they previously achieved.

I won't hold my breath for the line-up to change into a healthy one, as there seems to be no one currently in the band with the slightest clue.

The memories I hold onto of Yes are best represented by the band with the lineup at The Montreux Jazz Festival in 2003: John Anderson, Steve Howe, Chris Squire, Rick Wakeman and Alan White. I have the old Yessongs DVD, but it doesn't get played much.

Yeah, Bruford retired a couple of years ago. I was kidding before, but I agree with you. It can't be Yes without JA. The last album was a tribute band because of the singer. The last I heard, both he and Wakeman's son were gone from the band already, but i hadn't heard about a new singer. I read somewhere that JA can't even do a major rock tour anymore because of his health problems.

As of now, it doesn't look like we'll se the classic lineup ever again. But you really can't rule anything out with these guys.

I don't think that's really fair, given the longevity of the band. The current lineup - the one that's touring now - includes a founding member, plus two more who've been with the band since the early 70s, and a fourth who played on Drama.

Throughout every era Yes has been recognizably Yes, and I attribute that to the distinctiveness of Squire's harmony vocals and bass sound, and to Howe's unmistakable style. Listen to Squire's solo album (Fish Out of Water) and it's clear how much Yes sounds like Yes because of him.

IMO, the one constant about Yes is that they always sound like Yes.

That is the "classic" line-up that most (but not all) Yesheads prefer. Some might substitute Bruford- the original drummer- for AW. but BB left after Close to the Edge (best album ever imho) and so that line-up (JA, CS, SH, RW & BB) only ever did one tour, the one after Fragile. AW, previously known for his work w/ John Lennon in the Plastic Ono Band, took over like 2-3 days before the CttE tour! Hard to imagine learning all those complex songs in that short of time, but he pulled it off like a champ and can be seen having a ball on Yessongs.

We Yesheads have been blessed to have many opportunities in the new millenium to still see the classic lineup play live. Makes it that much more difficult to stomach what has become of what is now passing themselves off as Yes.

The last few tours as well as the last album have been a joke, but not just because of the singer. It was HSW who decided to diss Jon and hire a singer out of a tribute band, then stick with him even when it became obvious he couldn't cut it. But the singer wasn't the only one not cutting it. H & S have lost their singing chops (not that SH was ever that great) and those harmonies are an integral part of the Yes sound.

Furthermore, S & H aren't playing like they used to- the tempos are very slllooowwwww and the fire is gone. Old age combined w/ substance abuse have really taken their toll. It seems like they just don't care about the music anymore- just getting paid.

They also chose to replace RW's son w/ Geoff Downes on keys; he is the worst keyboardist ever in this band. I think he and CS are often too lubricated to play well- not that Downes was ever in a class with any other Yes players to begin with.

One telling point is that Yes didn't actually replace the tribute band singer. As the tours progressed, he was getting worse and worse (actually did OK in the beginning- at least not off-key and voice cracking like happened later with more and more frequency, though never even close to a suitable replacement for JA- if there even is such a thing). He apparently couldn't handle the strain of touring- and HSW pack their dates really close together (that money thing again). Actually, the tour schedule has been a point of contention for a long while, once the guys got up in age- first for RW, then for JA. But even though Benoit David's voice was so wasted that they had to cancel the last couple shows of the tour, Yes planned to continue, until BD's doctor told him he had to take some time off or permanently damage his voice. It was only then that HSW found another replacement. Gotta keep that money machine rolling, no matter in what state of disrepair it is.

As for Anderson touring, he has been doing that both solo and w/ RW. His health is a limiting factor, so doing tours the way Yes has done them in the past wouldn't work, but he could tour on a lighter schedule. Many feel he would never come back after the way he's been so utterly disrespected, but some interviews seem to hint he might be.

I am holding out hope for one final tour w/ JA- not just because I'd love to see them again, but also because I'd hate to see them go out the way they are now- which seems to be a not-so-slow downwards spiral, where the band shows a real lack of respect for their own legacy. But they (H & S) need to take some time off and get their @#!* together first- if that's still possible.

and that founding member is now often too wasted to do his job well, the one long-time member (SH) is nowhere near the performer he once was, the other long-time member still drums well- I blame the slow tempos on H & S, I think AW could speed it up if those 2 could keep up- and the Drama man was never a replacement for RW or even Tony Kaye. But the worst thing about HSW these days is the choices they make and the fact that they just don't seem to care anymore about the quality of the music- which previously was so elevated.

I agree with you that CS- both his harmonies and his incredible bass playing- is critical to the Yes sound. But I would rate him as #2 most important ingredient in that sound, behind JA, w/ SH in third. If you look at the band w/o JA, even before this recent debacle, they couldn't achieve the Yes sound. While Drama was a fine album and came off well live, when they tried to play classic Yes songs on the drama tour, Trevor Horn couldn't cut it either, despite being a real professional. JA's voice is just so distinctive and integral to the Yes sound, but furthermore, he sings in such a high register that other singers cannot get there- or if they can, they have to strain so much it ruins their voice over the course of a tour (I actually think the best chance of ever replacing JA would be to use a female vocalist). TH was "marginally acceptable" early on the Drama tour, but as it progressed his voice deteriorated- just like BD's on the last tour, though not to the same extent- to the point where he was actually getting booed towards the end of the tour. It didn't help that Yes sold out most of the tour before most people even knew JA was gone (count me among the duped, though I woulda gone anyway).

Whereas when Yes formed without CS (but couldn't call themselves Yes because CS had the rights to the name since he had never left the band), that band had much more of the Yes sound than either Drama Yes or Trevor Rabin Yes- even though TR's Yes had JA as the vocalist! Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe were just like Yes to me and to many other Yesheads. They put on an awesome show. Even though I missed CS, they had an excellent replacement in Tony Levin. Compare the 90210-live video to the ABWH video- ABWH is much more of the Yes sound. TR's band (and it was his band, whereas Yes had been JA's band- he was the maestro!) was originally called Cinema- it was only at the insistence of Atlantic Records that they agreed to call themselves Yes.

Finally, as crucial as CS is to the Yes sound, he is not making it recently. His harmonies are downright bad at times and his playing is a couple notches below his past. Don't know if he can't handle his liquor anymore (he was always a heavy partyer), is drinking more and/or adding other intoxicants, but he is too often noticeably wasted at the shows these days.

I have to disagree with your statement that "Throughout every era Yes has been recognizably Yes." To me- and many would disagree, though many would agree, TR's Yes was not recognizably Yes. It was very good music and- what made it most Yes-like- it was always played at high quality. I would say, with the exception of the recent band (and arguably the Drama band, as far as live shows go), that every era Yes has been high quality music.

I agree that the one constant about Yes is that they always sound like Yes, but to me that didn't include Drama or TR's Yes. And if you think that the lineup that currently calls itself Yes sounds like Yes, I would direct you to Youtube for clips from recent shows. Off-key singing (both harmonies and lead), lethargic tempos, sloppy playing and weak keyboards is NOT the Yes sound. I just hope they can turn it around before the end, which is clearly in sight. Actually, I wish they had called it a day when JA had to drop out in '05 due to health issues.

I think you are 100% spot-on; and suspect many of us old-time Yes fans feel the same way. OTOH, I suspect the current fan base is made up of many who had little or no exposure to Yes concerts in the pre-2004 world.

Back to the thread topic; unless someone finally found the old quad master tapes (which I doubt), then the new 5.1 soundtrack will be derived from the original mono soundtrack. Like you, I'm anxiously awaiting reviews before taking the plunge.

Found a link to it on another forum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4e3m...layer_embedded

I just listened to to the Youtube trailer on a decent system (external Edirol D/A converter; Yamaha amp, B & W speakers w/Veloydyne sub). Audio sounds somewhat improved from prior releases and the CD, but it still sounds mono, and retains that talking-through-cupped-hands muffled quality to it. Video quality looks significantly cleaned up (recognizing the limited quality of the source material).

Still taking the wait-and-see approach.

From what I've read on some forums, many of us old-timers agree, but there seems to be a suprising number of fans who have "rose-colored ears." Comments on BD that he sounded just like JA, defending the slow tempos and sloppy playing, etc. Funny how much our perception can alter reality...

First saw them in "77, gfto tour- Wakeman's return! (the first one that is...) Last saw them on JA's last tour- 05 was it? What was your first and last show?


I saw that, but just watched on computer. Didn't think a YT video would be a good way to judge, so I didn't pay that close attention. Your description of the muffled sound on the dvd is very apt- sorry to hear that it seems to still be there. I would be fine even with mono if the SQ was good. Still waiting, but still feel my hopes will most likely be in vain.

Hello,
In my opinion Yes hit there absolute musical peak on Relayer. After Relayer they slowly started to loose it. Going for the one is a great album, but that was the start of the decline. Todays Yes is pretty horrific! The tempos are at a snails pace! I do not know who to blame it on. If they would ever release a revamped version of Yes live @ QPR from 75, you will see a band at there Peak! I have ordered the Yessongs BR!

I tend to agree, though I would say GftO was still at their peak. I think the next album Tormato was the first downward movement. GftO had some great songs, no filler and the absolutely sublime Awaken. I used to skip Onward, but that song grew on me over the years and after hearing the live version on Keys 1, I really love it now. And Turn of the Century ranks among their best imho.

But Yes hasn't followed a typical curve of rising to a peak and then falling. With the line-up changes, times when there wasn't a Yes and so forth, there has been a lot of rising and falling. To some, 90125 was their peak, though to me, Trevor Rabin's Yes wasn't really Yes, even if it was still high quality music. After the classic line-up reformed around '97, they put out the Keys albums and those new songs were pretty good, but then Open your Eyes came out and that was probably the low point of their career, until this current band that is Yes in name only imho.

But then the Ladder came out and, while not quite up to the standards of the classic period, it was very close and an excellent album. Magnification was just a slight drop-off, also very very good.

But Yes has always been about their live shows and regardless of the quality of their albums, they always put on transcendent shows. Current line-up excluded, of course. That's the sad part, that the current band has lost the magic that made their live shows so moving, but keeps slogging on, just to get paid, disrespecting the awesome legacy of Yes music.

But while I hate to see them going out on such a wicked down-slide (hoping against hope for a return of JA and being able to reach the heights once more before the end), I have to be very grateful at their longevity and over 35 years of amazing live shows. I first saw them in 77 and, even though there were times it seemed Yes was at an end, still had many opportunities to enjoy the almost supernatural transportation of their live shows.

QPR is a great show, but I don't think it can ever be fixed, as the problem was at the sound board. And even though Moraz was great on Relayer and did fine with the other material, he was still a notch below Wakeman live. Yessongs was their absolute peak live, though they remained at a very high level throughout, until the current line-up. I am hoping for some decent sound from the BR, though I remain dubious that much can be done to clean it up significantly. But hope remains.

Be sure to post your thoughts once you've given it a spin.

Hello,
One correction Onward was on Tormato, Wondrous Stories was on GFTO. In regards to Wakeman vs Moraz, they are both amazing musicians. Patrick Moraz does have a huge advantage over Wakeman in the fact that Moraz can improvise, being a Jazz musician as well as being classically trained from an early age. Don't get me wrong Wakeman is an amazing keyboard player, but is limited in his ability to play outside the classical genre. I saw PM in 1976, and he totally added a Mahavishinu Orch feel to Yes. It is unfair to say that wakeman played Yes music better than Moraz did, because Wakeman wrote most of the keyboard parts that Moraz had to learn.

Oops- major brain fart. Of course Onward was Tormato. As for PM, I didn't mean that he wasn't as good a musician, though I still give the edge to RW, but I am no doubt biased. But being able to improvise makes little difference in Yes, as they rarely jam- their music calls for precise execution and little variation from night to night.

As for being unfair to compare the two because RW wrote most of the parts, I don't understand that- if Yes sounds better w/ RW, what does it matter who wrote what, they still sound better. Now, if I stated that this meant RW was a better musician because of this, that would be unfair. But all I'm saying is that I like Yes's sound better when RW is playing. That being said, I missed the Moraz tours, 77 was my 1st Yesshow, so I am judging PM based on recordings only, mostly QPR, where at times PM is mixed way too loud and so that really grates (though of course no fault of his own). That is probably not very fair.

One thing in PM's favor- even if imho he didn't play non-Relayer Yes as well, at least he played it. RW won't play Relayer, except for the lil slice of Gates that is "Soon." And I would imagine that if Wakeman ever did play any Relayer, he wouldn't do as well with that as PM did with non-Relayer Yes. Except maybe To Be Over- I could see RW doing a great job with that.

GFTO was my first Yesshow also; saw every tour since (except Talk) until Anderson left. I had no interest in the semi-tribute band version, but my son, who had never seen Yes, bugged me to take him to the pre-FFH Benoit line-up, so I did. Meh.

I think GFTO stands up as a true classic; some of my most magical concert memories are from watching Awaken performed live.

It sounds like we're brothers from different mothers! I've seen every tour since gfto except Big Generator- so we both skipped 1 of the TR tours- up until they went Anderson-less. Luckily I had no one to twist my arm to go see the current bastardization. I also have a lot of great memories of seeing Awaken- probably the Union tour was my fave one, which is a lil strange given that I'm not fond of TR being in Yes (wish they had stuck to calling themselves Cinema, but then again who knows what would have become of Yes- seems like some younger fans found the band from OoaLH, then discovered the back catalog).

You catch them mostly in Calif.? I was lucky enough to see them in the beginning in Philly, which is a huge Yes town. In fact, their largest crowd ever was there, at an old football stadium (JFK)- 125k for the show they headlined with Frampton and Gary "Dreamweaver" Wright. Funnily enough (though certainly not at the time), that was supposed to be my 1st Yesshow, had my tix and all ready to go, but then got grounded the day before the show (!) and had to miss it. I thought long and hard about defying my parents and going anyway, but wussed out- didn't help that I had been up well into the night getting "lectured." One of the worst cases of bad timing in my life- that was a stupendous show.

Did you make it to SLO? I missed that and then was totally bummed when Wakeman wasn't with them on the tour that followed- though I always thought Igor did a very good job, even though he was often mixed really low. But no one gets that atmospheric Yes sound like RW.

Yes, it does sound like there are lots of parallels (pun intended). Except my story about missing my first big concert was Elton John at Dodger Stadium. All my Yesshows have been in Calif. I still kick myself about missing SLO. I'd rank Igor as my 2nd favorite keyboardist (never saw Moraz live, but plenty on Youtube!).

I saw only one Yes concert way back in the 79-81 time period(I think). It was in the round, with a slowly rotating stage, and a large multi-pointed star shape above the stage with the lights where each "arm" of the star could move independently. I was in the third row. It was heaven! Which tour would that have been?

They were "in-the-round" for the Tormato/10th anniversary tour, then again for the Drama tour (very different line-up!). I saw the Tormato tour in-the-round from the 3rd row, and it was magnificent.

Parallel our sights... Too bad about slo. I regret not seeing that, but at the time it was hard to justify flying from the east coast just to see that show. If I'd been in CA, I woulda made it for sure.

Its a shame Igor was screwed up and assaulted that guard- he really was the best Wakeman replacement. He musta been really drunk to sexually assault a security guard! I was at that show btw, though of course knew nothing of the backstage shenanigans till it hit the news.

Yes Tormato tour- 78/79 I believe. In-the-round was awesome; they also used it for the Union tour- at least the show I saw outside DC. That staging not only made for mo' better views, since it was in the middle of the venue, it also made for better sound, with 360 degree sound radiation. Too bad they (and others) didn't do more like this. PG used this staging for the Growing Up tour- tho just the 1st leg I believe.

On its way from Amazon UK! Or should I say,

Should be here by the end of the coming week. I never saw the original--someone recommend a first track for me to spin to check out the quality of this version...

Looking forward to your review. If it was me, I'd just watch it from the beginning- but I've seen it before- in all its incarnations- theatre, drive-in (remember those?), vhs, laserdisc, dvd. Still, I think the experience is best served by watching from beginning. But if you don't have the time and want to check it out quickly, I'd try Yours is no Disgrace 1st. 2nd best performance on the video, behind Close to the Edge, but that's around 20 min., so if time is a factor...

Enjoy! Should be fun even if sound and picture aren't much of an upgrade, just given the nature of the performances. Clap is killer- great shots of Steve Howe's hands as he plays his signature solo piece.

Will this, or the ELP 5.1 box sets, be available on Amazon US or is it more prudent to get them from Amazon UK?

On a somewhat related note, coming up on XM radio channel 27: "Deep Tracks" at 6pm Eastern, 5 pm my time...

Live From The BBC Vault: Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe, 1989 : 5:00 pm - 6:00 pm (1 hr)
Rediscover this historic BBC radio concert event, Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe, recorded at the National Exhibition Center Birmingham in October, 1989. The band, featuring vocalist Jon Anderson, drummer Bill Bruford, keyboardist Rick Wakeman, and guitarist Steve Howe, played together in the early 1970s in Yes. To celebrate Steve Howe's April birthday, join these four progressive rock musicians as they recreate Yes songs such as Roundabout, Close To The Edge and many more in this unforgettable performance.

I'm disappointed, but not surprised. Are you familiar with the sound quality (and I use that term loosely) of the original film and album? If you weren't, and simply comparing it to a modern release, it would indeed be horrible. My real question is whether the BD is a substantial improvement to the admittedly terrible SQ of the original film.