Captivators and Submersive comparison in my room

I own 2 passive Captivators and love them, however I have heard the Submersive twice and absolutely loved it for music and have always wondered what it would sound like in my room.

Fortunately I don't have to wonder anymore thanks to Counsil who is letting me borrow one of his Submersives. Thanks again Doug, you made it seem like no big deal at all, but it is a very big deal to me, I really appreciate it.

So, I fired it up and level matched it with the mains at -10 on my Pioneer Elite exactly like I have my Caps set up. I usually have the volume around 0, or 10 hot for both music and movies btw.

I started with music and right off the bat I recognized the sound I love so much about this sub. I'm thinking, ok, it's time to put the Caps up for sale and buy a Submersive.

Not so fast. I demo'd a couple of my favorite movie scenes and the Submersive didn't do it for me as much as the Caps. In the Die Hard 4 apartment shootout scene the Caps make my couch feel like it's moving all over the place and tons of body impact. The Submersive did the same thing but it was more subdued. Same kind of thing from the lord of the rings cave troll/whatever that devil thing is called scene. The Caps do it more for me there too.

I have always been a music first guy so this should be an easy decision. However, since I bought the projector and have the huge screen movies have suddenly increased in their importance.

The other thing is right now the Caps are naked. Meaning they have no eq, no HPF, nothing. My sms-1 was causing loud pops anytime the audio was cut (which is all the time) so I sent it into Velodyne.

However, I have heard my Caps eq'd relatively flat with the sms-1 in here so at least I'm not completely in the dark.

I guess what it comes down to am I more a music guy or a movies guy...

Here is a pic with the Caps. BTW, just got my new eD center channel today, exchanged it for the eD 6" cinema center channel. I like the 12 much better.



Hey, the Caps have a new friend.









Depth is pretty much equal, Submersive is just a bit deeper.




Finally, here is the Submersive in the Caps place. Don't worry Counsil, I already have rubber pads on the bottom of the eD's and I put a towel in between them just to be extra careful.



Those of you that want measurements, I don't have an omnimic. All measurements done in the past were done by Luke Kamp. I do plan on getting an omnimic but I'm not going to until I get my sms-1 back.

Yes, in fact that's how I listened to the Captivator for the longest period of time. I had a single Cap eq'd with the sms-1 from last May until this January when I bought the 2nd Cap.

This is very preliminary, but I would say that my order of preference would be:

Music:

1. Dual Caps nearfield on the side walls back by my LP
2. Submersive up front (haven't tried it nearfield yet)
3. Dual Caps up front
4. Single Cap

Movies:

1. Dual Caps up front
2. Single Cap up front - right corner
3. Submersive
4. Dual Caps nearfield

I don't know if any of this is helping anyone since we all have different preferences, but oh well. I like reading comparison threads myself so maybe you guys will too.

I remember Counsil saying that the Sumbersive and the Empire sound very similar for music (although they don't blend well together) so if you liked the Empire then yes, I'm betting you'll like the Submersive too.

Correct me if that's wrong Counsil.

I still think a single Cap has more impact for movies. Keep in mind this is with a Behringer ep4000 amp which isn't pushing the Cap to it's full potential.

I had a single Cap in here for over 6 months before I bought the 2nd Cap, so I'm very familiar with having just a single. However, since audio memory is terrible I'm going to do some more comparisons using just a single Cap vs the Submersive.

I just want to add that Counsil's room is a sight to behold. He has all full range towers surrounding him (I would love to do this but don't have the space) and quad Sumersives up front (a 5th Submersive which is now at my house is his end table) and then in the back there is a mountain of Epik Empires, and yet another Empire greets you upstairs right as you walk in the front door. Love it!!

Check out his picks in his signature. The difference now is that the Ultras have all been replaced with Submersives and he doesn't have his Submersive end table yet in the pics.

Da**it, if I buy a Submersive I'll have to bury yet another cable under the carpet. Just now thought of that...

Is there really any such thing as future proofing your room when it comes to wiring??

You are the Subwoofer Santa Claus!!

Just watched Return of the King battle scene with the elephants. AWESOME! I haven't watched that scene in a very long time.

I had the Submersive at 6db's hot (pretty tame for me) with master volume at 6 under reference. Man, these eD speakers are so good too.

Ok, next up try the same scene with the front left Cap only at also 6db hot same master volume level.

Just watched a couple of minutes on the same scene with just the single Cap. AWESOME!!

Unfortunately, it is still giving me more impact than the Submersive. When I say unfortunately, I want my decision to be easier. After staying up way too late listening to music, I can say for sure that the Submersive is my pick for music and it would be so much easier if it beat the Caps (or just a single Cap) on movies too.

I know it sound silly but I hate to give up the crazy wow factor of showing off my system with dual Caps to people that come over. I've demo'd the Die Hard scene at least 7-8 times now for people including over 20 people before the super bowl and that was really fun.

It's not like the Submersive is far behind but it is.

That's also with the Cap in the "weak" corner. The front right corner puts out a lot more db's (I assume that's because there are 2 concrete walls there, in the front left it's just drywall on one side).

No, the Caps have no eq and no HPF right now. I do have a frame of reference though, because for 7 months I had the single Cap eq'd with the sms-1.

You are right, I should wait until I get my sms-1 back. If someone gave me a good offer on the Caps right now though, it would be tough to resist since at the end of the day I'm a music first guy (I am liking movie bass a lot more than I used to though).

Just watched the same scene with the subs at 10 hot. I didn't really get much more out of either one of them, so the Submersive and Behringer amp must be at their limits - holy clip lights - confirmed that was the case for the Behringer.

I know if I try a Cap in the corner where the Submersive is I'll get more output, and that's without duals.

Highest levels on the radio slp meter at my LP C weighted slow response (remember I am 17 feet away from subs and have never had huge numbers in my room) was 115 for the Cap and 113 for the Submersive.

I'll have to try the same scene with the Cap in the right corner where the Submersive is because the highest I ever had there was 116 and I think I would be higher since I got 115 from the weak corner. If you missed it before, the highest I've had with dual Caps is 120.

I don't normally listen at these levels of course, but I want to know the power is there when I do want it.

Yes