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Captivators and Submersive comparison in my room - Page 2

post #31 of 263
3/4/12 at 3:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by morrischestnut60 View Post

Beautiful room and equipment. Follow your gut and go with the Caps. Duals look even better in the room. Also, if it is not a multi-purpose room then it is unlikely that you will spend a lot of time there listening to music only. Really nice room.

Thanks Morris

Problem is my gut tells me to go with the Submersive. We've lived in this house for 10 years and this is "my" room, well now "daddy's" room and I almost always have music playing down here in my hideout.
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post #32 of 263
3/4/12 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Thanks Morris

Problem is my gut tells me to go with the Submersive. We've lived in this house for 10 years and this is "my" room, well now "daddy's" room and I almost always have music playing down here in my hideout.

Congrats on the "daddy" man.
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post #33 of 263
3/4/12 at 3:50pm
I wonder if you might like PGM2 better on the SubM. Give it a try, I think you might like it a little better in your room.
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post #34 of 263
3/4/12 at 4:29pm
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Well, I put the Caps and Behringer up for sale.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=17121

Music first, for me. If they don't sell I may go with Archaea's idea of keeping the Caps for movies and nearfield Submersive for movies. That does sound pretty killer.
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post #35 of 263
3/4/12 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Well, I put the Caps and Behringer up for sale.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=17121

Music first, for me. If they don't sell I may go with Archaea's idea of keeping the Caps for movies and nearfield Submersive for movies. That does sound pretty killer.

Pmed!
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post #36 of 263
3/4/12 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Well, I put the Caps and Behringer up for sale.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=17121

Music first, for me. If they don't sell I may go with Archaea's idea of keeping the Caps for movies and nearfield Submersive for movies. That does sound pretty killer.

Wow. If I lived closer and didn't get the SubM last month I'd be a Cap owner.

Interested in your opinion on PGM 2 of the SubM. Is your receiver XT32 as well? I just upgraded to the Denon 4311 and XT32 made my whole system sound even better than it was. It would probably make the eDs shine even more. I even took off my anti-mode because XT32 did a great job with the SubM. The 4311 is going for quite a good price now (Under $1,300 price matching from an authorized dealer).
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post #37 of 263
3/4/12 at 5:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Wow. If I lived closer and didn't get the SubM last month I'd be a Cap owner.

Interested in your opinion on PGM 2 of the SubM. Is your receiver XT32 as well? I just upgraded to the Denon 4311 and XT32 made my whole system sound even better than it was. It would probably make the eDs shine even more. I even took off my anti-mode because XT32 did a great job with the SubM. The 4311 is going for quite a good price now (Under $1,300 price matching from an authorized dealer).

No, I have a Pioneer Elite so no sub eq there. My mbm-1 is getting fixed. I'll play with PGM 2 when I get a chance, it's sounding so good for music that I haven't messed with much.
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post #38 of 263
3/4/12 at 5:47pm
Thread Starter 
My Caps are looking at me like, "how could you?" right now.
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post #39 of 263
3/5/12 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Well, I put the Caps and Behringer up for sale.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=17121

Music first, for me. If they don't sell I may go with Archaea's idea of keeping the Caps for movies and nearfield Submersive for movies. That does sound pretty killer.

Man, you are crazy! Now I haven't heard the SubHP in person yet but I can't imagine the difference being significant enough (in terms of SQ or output) to offset the costs of this "exchange". Figure you're only asking 2400 for the cap PAIR and a new single SubHP is going to run around the same cost.

P.S. - Still loving my Caps and even stopped looking for new options, which is rare for me, heh.
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post #40 of 263
3/5/12 at 10:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Man, you are crazy! Now I haven't heard the SubHP in person yet but I can't imagine the difference being significant enough (in terms of SQ or output) to offset the costs of this "exchange". Figure you're only asking 2400 for the cap PAIR and a new single SubHP is going to run around the same cost.

P.S. - Still loving my Caps and even stopped looking for new options, which is rare for me, heh.

I know, it's ridiculous. Now that I have my Caps sitting next to each other with their grills off they look so bad a** that a part of me is sick that I'm selling.

Yep, the Caps are the best sounding movie Sub I have heard in my room.

However, there is just something about the Submersive when it comes to music. I know I'll always want that bass sound if I don't end up with a Submersive so I'm biting the bullet now.

BTW, I'm not having a shortage of interested people I can tell you that!!
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post #41 of 263
3/5/12 at 10:47am
Carp,
Not a bad dilemma to have though. Congrats on making a difficult choice.
Tim
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post #42 of 263
3/5/12 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I know, it's ridiculous. Now that I have my Caps sitting next to each other with their grills off they look so bad a** that a part of me is sick that I'm selling.

Yep, the Caps are the best sounding movie Sub I have heard in my room.

However, there is just something about the Submersive when it comes to music. I know I'll always want that bass sound if I don't end up with a Submersive so I'm biting the bullet now.

BTW, I'm not having a shortage of interested people I can tell you that!!

Have you thought about adding the amp used in the powered cap to one of your caps instead of selling it? Its just about the same one used in the SubM. Maybe you can get the musicality of that amp/dsp combo, with the movie impact of the cap? Maybe Jeff will give you a good price on it too.
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post #43 of 263
3/5/12 at 12:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Have you thought about adding the amp used in the powered cap to one of your caps instead of selling it? Its just about the same one used in the SubM. Maybe you can get the musicality of that amp/dsp combo, with the movie impact of the cap? Maybe Jeff will give you a good price on it too.

It's not a lack of power, I think I'm just a Submersive guy when it comes to music. I picked it over the Cap for music once at a GTG that wasn't blind, picked it again in a blind test, and I like it best in my room too (once again, just talking music here).

If I only watched movies I would never have looked any further than dual Caps. I probably would have bought a more powerful amp for them eventually, but other than that was was completely set as far as movies go.
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post #44 of 263
3/5/12 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Have you thought about adding the amp used in the powered cap to one of your caps instead of selling it? Its just about the same one used in the SubM. Maybe you can get the musicality of that amp/dsp combo, with the movie impact of the cap? Maybe Jeff will give you a good price on it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

It's not a lack of power, I think I'm just a Submersive guy when it comes to music. I picked it over the Cap for music once at a GTG that wasn't blind, picked it again in a blind test, and I like it best in my room too (once again, just talking music here).

If I only watched movies I would never have looked any further than dual Caps. I probably would have bought a more powerful amp for them eventually, but other than that was was completely set as far as movies go.

I think you might be missing the point that bhazard was trying to make. It's not about power. The amp in powered Cap, much like the amp in the Submersive, uses DSP processing to optimize the performance of the sub it's powering. It flattens and tailors the response as well as provides limiters and filters and such. The passive Captivator doesn't get the benefit of DSP processing and optimization unless the user has the external equipment to do what would be done inside the amp of the powered sub. Did you optimize the performance of your Caps and tailor them to their peak performance? If not, they were performing at a disadvantage compared with the Submersive which had been factory tweaked by Seaton.
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post #45 of 263
3/5/12 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

It's not a lack of power, I think I'm just a Submersive guy when it comes to music. I picked it over the Cap for music once at a GTG that wasn't blind, picked it again in a blind test, and I like it best in my room too (once again, just talking music here).

If I only watched movies I would never have looked any further than dual Caps. I probably would have bought a more powerful amp for them eventually, but other than that was was completely set as far as movies go.

I think you would like the submersive better for movies too if you had two of them.
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post #46 of 263
3/5/12 at 1:52pm
Perhaps you should consider the Cap S. In that blind shootout you almost gave it an identical score to the SubM for music (12 compared to 11). Fact is maybe you should just go for a pair of the Cap S2's and be done with it!
Real easy to spend others people's money!

Regards,
Patrick
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post #47 of 263
3/5/12 at 2:15pm
I have dual Submersives and in my 6000+ cu ft, open on the left to the rest of the house and they are still the best sub(s) that I have heard so far for SQ. It's like they have a certain finesse in the SQ that has detailed/spl in this room. I have had a Conquest in this room in the past as well as Quad Empires and I would say that the dual Submersives are hard to beat. Spl output is one thing, but detailed SQ wins out for me when discussing 112 vs 115 db's. Things still fall off the wall either way.
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post #48 of 263
3/5/12 at 2:54pm
Carp, are you going to try splitting the locations of the SubM's when you get the eventual 2nd one (we all know its coming)? Maybe having one near field and one up front will give you the impact that you love with your Cap's and the SubM sound that you enjoy with music.
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post #49 of 263
3/5/12 at 3:00pm
Hi carp,

Good to hear you are enjoying the SubMersive HP. Nice to have friends local with "extra" SubMersives like counsil!

I suspect there are a few things you might prefer more with the PGM1 setting (switch in), but do play around with the PGM2 setting (switch out) as it will subjectively give you more wallop and weight to the bottom. Do remember you need to cycle the power to engage either response curve (power switch off, press PGM switch, power switch back on).
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post #50 of 263
3/5/12 at 3:17pm
Never heard the cap. I would like to one day. It seems like a great sub. For me, in my small room, the SubMersive HP does sound great with music. Craig did such a great job integrating with my 1027's that all it does is add weight to the music and does not call any atention to itself. Now, maybe because my room is small, but the HP is just fantastic for movies as well. It has scary output for me. But I have to also say the SQ for movies is also very good.

I honestly think that sometimes we get silly and way to attached to our own gear. It is always situation based. There will be some times when the Cap will work better and there will be times when a SubMersive will work better. That does not mean, at least in my eye, that one buries the other. It has been shown that both subs are at or near the top of the food chain. I can be happy for someone who has a Cap and loves it. I think it's great if it works out that the Cap works for some people over a SubMersive. That doesn't mean that my SubMersive HP is all of a sudden no good. It just means that it is no good for that person. Would I change subs? Nope. I just don't see how I could get the perfomance I am getting in a sub that is the same form factor as a SubMersive. Like it has been mentioned before, if I move to a bigger room and I feel it is lacking, I would just get another one. Anyway, Carp, looking forward to your thoughts with the SubMersive for music AND movies. Who knows, if you get another one so you have duals, then that would be very interesting to hear your thoughts. Anyway, I look forward to reading about your experince with the SubMersive HP. Also, I think it would be cool to try both DSP's, as Mark noted above, and see which you like better.
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post #51 of 263
3/5/12 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Never heard the cap. I would like to one day. It seems like a great sub. For me, in my small room, the SubMersive HP does sound great with music. Craig did such a great job integrating with my 1027's that all it does is add weight to the music and does not call any atention to itself. Now, maybe because my room is small, but the HP is just fantastic for movies as well. It has scary output for me. But I have to also say the SQ for movies is also very good.

I honestly think that sometimes we get silly and way to attached to our own gear. It is always situation based. There will be some times when the Cap will work better and there will be times when a SubMersive will work better. That does not mean, at least in my eye, that one buries the other. It has been shown that both subs are at or near the top of the food chain. I can be happy for someone who has a Cap and loves it. I think it's great if it works out that the Cap works for some people over a SubMersive. That doesn't mean that my SubMersive HP is all of a sudden no good. It just means that it is no good for that person. Would I change subs? Nope. I just don't see how I could get the perfomance I am getting in a sub that is the same form factor as a SubMersive. Like it has been mentioned before, if I move to a bigger room and I feel it is lacking, I would just get another one. Anyway, Carp, looking forward to your thoughts with the SubMersive for music AND movies. Who knows, if you get another one so you have duals, then that would be very interesting to hear your thoughts. Anyway, I look forward to reading about your experince with the SubMersive HP. Also, I think it would be cool to try both DSP's, as Mark noted above, and see which you like better.

I agree. I often say to myself that after I purchase something AV, I will just stop reading this forum so that I won't k ow there is anything different.

I think you should keep the caps and add two submersives on top of them and just switch over for music and movies. Problem solved. You got the room.
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post #52 of 263
3/5/12 at 7:34pm
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I think you would like the submersive better for movies too if you had two of them.

I prefer the a single Cap to a Submersive for movies (just barely), so I assume the same would be true for dual Submersives.

However, it could have just been the specific clips I chose. Check post 21 of the thread, and some others on the front page of the thread about comparing the Cap and Submersive.

For movies I just like the slam/impact/couch shaking crazy output, music is a different thing.

Don't get me wrong, the Submersive has crazy output too, it's like it's magic or something... I don't see how it can do what it does in such a small box. That sounded really dorky.
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post #53 of 263
3/5/12 at 7:37pm
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Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Carp, are you going to try splitting the locations of the SubM's when you get the eventual 2nd one (we all know its coming)? Maybe having one near field and one up front will give you the impact that you love with your Cap's and the SubM sound that you enjoy with music.

Haha, yeah the 2nd one will be coming for sure.

I'm going to try putting both in the right front corner. The way I see it, I already love what it does in that spot for music and if I put them together that should give me what I want for movies too.

But then again there is the nearfield thing too that I like for music...

Luke Kamp is right, he told me awhile back that I'm going to end up with 2 Submersives up front and 2 nearfield.
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post #54 of 263
3/5/12 at 7:46pm
We all need friends like Counsil, though my bank account wouldn't get along with the choices I made afterwards.
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post #55 of 263
3/5/12 at 7:46pm
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Hi carp,

Good to hear you are enjoying the SubMersive HP. Nice to have friends local with "extra" SubMersives like counsil!

I suspect there are a few things you might prefer more with the PGM1 setting (switch in), but do play around with the PGM2 setting (switch out) as it will subjectively give you more wallop and weight to the bottom. Do remember you need to cycle the power to engage either response curve (power switch off, press PGM switch, power switch back on).

Ok, will do Mark thanks for the advice. I looked and the switch has been in this whole time. Sounds like I should have the switch in for music and out for movies? I'll give it a try as soon as I get a chance.
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post #56 of 263
3/5/12 at 7:48pm
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Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

I agree. I often say to myself that after I purchase something AV, I will just stop reading this forum so that I won't k ow there is anything different.

I think you should keep the caps and add two submersives on top of them and just switch over for music and movies. Problem solved. You got the room.

Yes, I have the room but not the money!!
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post #57 of 263
3/5/12 at 7:49pm
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Originally Posted by leninGHOLA View Post

We all need friends like Counsil, though my bank account wouldn't get along with the choices I made afterwards.

One thing is for sure, don't borrow someone's sub unless you know you might end up buying one!!
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post #58 of 263
3/5/12 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

One thing is for sure, don't borrow someone's sub unless you know you might end up buying one!!

A good disclaimer for your OP
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post #59 of 263
3/5/12 at 7:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

One thing is for sure, don't borrow someone's sub unless you know you might end up buying one... or two!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by leninGHOLA View Post

A good disclaimer for your OP

Ha, true and I fixed my quote.
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post #60 of 263
3/5/12 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ok, will do Mark thanks for the advice. I looked and the switch has been in this whole time. Sounds like I should have the switch in for music and out for movies? I'll give it a try as soon as I get a chance.

That's what I do. It makes more difference than you might guess. Quoting myself from an early observation: "Pgm 1 is excellent. Pgm. 2 is beyond belief."

Chris
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