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Captivators and Submersive comparison in my room - Page 3

post #61 of 263
3/5/12 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

That's what I do. It makes more difference than you might guess. Quoting myself from an early observation: "Pgm 1 is excellent. Pgm. 2 is beyond belief."

Chris

I need to try PGM2 with XT32 now myself. I preferred PGM1 in my room with an anti-mode.
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post #62 of 263
3/5/12 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

I need to try PGM2 with XT32 now myself. I preferred PGM1 in my room with an anti-mode.

I run Audyssey with the SubM's in Prgm1 and then afterwards switch to Prgm2. It's like adding a "house curve" that compensates for human hearing deficiencies at ULF's. I leave it there for both music and movies.

Carp, you need to try Prgm2 before you decide about movie performance. Prgm2 can add the strong ULF's you find slightly missing for movies.

Craig
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post #63 of 263
3/5/12 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

I need to try PGM2 with XT32 now myself. I preferred PGM1 in my room with an anti-mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I run Audyssey with the SubM's in Prgm1 and then afterwards switch to Prgm2. It's like adding a "house curve" that compensates for human hearing deficiencies at ULF's. I leave it there for both music and movies.

Carp, you need to try Prgm2 before you decide about movie performance. Prgm2 can add the strong ULF's you find slightly missing for movies.

Craig

I preferred PGM1 too when I was only using the Anti-Mode and had it like this for a year or so.

Later I tried the steps that Craig mentioned. I first ran Anti-Mode with the SubMersive in PGM1, then ran Audyssey XT, then switch the SubMersive in PGM2 and now prefer PGM2.

Thx,
Claude
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post #64 of 263
3/5/12 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

I preferred PGM1 too when I was only using the Anti-Mode and had it like this for a year or so.

Later I tried the steps that Craig mentioned. I first ran Anti-Mode with the SubMersive in PGM1, then ran Audyssey XT, then switch the SubMersive in PGM2 and now prefer PGM2.

Thx,
Claude

Son of a B, you're both spot on. PGM2 sounds much better now this way. I'm sold. It didn't sound this good with anti-mode then mcacc for me originally.

I just tried it with Hanna on HBO and the difference was immediately noticeable. I didn't think the SubM could get much better, but it just did. I can't wait to try it with some test material tomorrow.
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post #65 of 263
3/6/12 at 6:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I run Audyssey with the SubM's in Prgm1 and then afterwards switch to Prgm2. It's like adding a "house curve" that compensates for human hearing deficiencies at ULF's. I leave it there for both music and movies.

Carp, you need to try Prgm2 before you decide about movie performance. Prgm2 can add the strong ULF's you find slightly missing for movies.

Craig

I'm running out of comparison time!!

I think I'll get a chance to try Prgm2 tonight though.
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post #66 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm running out of comparison time!!

I think I'll get a chance to try Prgm2 tonight though.

The best quick description of PGM2... its not as tight as prg1, but hits harder and has more impact.
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post #67 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post


The best quick description of PGM2... its not as tight as prg1, but hits harder and has more impact.

I haven't noticed any loss of definition/articulation (aka"tightness"), just a different system balance with more ULF energy. YMMV.

Craig
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post #68 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I haven't noticed any loss of definition/articulation (aka"tightness"), just a different system balance with more ULF energy. YMMV.

Craig

Good point. There's no reason there should be any change in definition or articulation. "Tightness" is just one of those terms that's used to describe a balance where the the mid-bass is high relative to the low bass.
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post #69 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:37am
OT..

How big is your screen Carp?
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post #70 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:43am
I would buy one of your Cap's from you in a heartbeat, but I live in NYC :'(


Ray
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post #71 of 263
3/6/12 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

The best quick description of PGM2... its not as tight as prg1, but hits harder and has more impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I haven't noticed any loss of definition/articulation (aka"tightness"), just a different system balance with more ULF energy. YMMV.

Craig


For what its worth.

When I was just ran Anti-Mode (No Audyssey) with the SubMersive HP in PGM1, it sounded great. When I engaged PGM2 it still sounds very good but (In my room) I noticed that the bass was not as snappy/quick in PGM2 vs PGM1 but PGM2 did have more umpf down low.

Running Anti-Mode with the SubMersive HP in PGM1, then running Audyssey XT while still in PGM1, and finally changing over to PGM2 seemed to give the best of both worlds.

Pending room, treatments, sub placement, EQ..etc YMMV.
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post #72 of 263
3/6/12 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by supercop View Post

OT..

How big is your screen Carp?

158 inches diagonal in 2:35:1 and with the masking panels in for 16:9 it's 124".
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post #73 of 263
3/6/12 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm running out of comparison time!!

I think I'll get a chance to try Prgm2 tonight though.

Carp,
Any chance you can keep the all four? All four for movies, HP's for music only? That would be incredible!
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post #74 of 263
3/6/12 at 10:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

Carp,
Any chance you can keep the all four? All four for movies, HP's for music only? That would be incredible!

Hey man, good to see you on here. You're one of the few guys that has owned both Submersives and a Cap, so I'm glad you're here.

I would love to have 2 of each!!! I just can't spend that much money right now. Maybe eventually I could do something like that, but not anytime soon.

Talking to you on the phone I remember you saying you preferred the Submersives for music but the powered Cap for movies right? If I'm remembering that right then you and I have very similar tastes.

Have you decided on what you are going to do? Another powered Cap? Sealed dual Caps? Orbit Shifters?
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post #75 of 263
3/6/12 at 5:43pm
Hey carp, did you manage to try the Submersive in PGM2? Eager to know your findings.
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post #76 of 263
3/6/12 at 7:24pm
Thread Starter 
No, the guy that came over tonight bought my Captivators and Behringer amp and we did some demo's so I never had time. I probably won't be able to try it out until the weekend now, sorry.
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post #77 of 263
3/6/12 at 7:49pm
You didn't let him listen to the SubMersive did you? That MIGHT have complicated matters.

Just kidding Archaea.
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post #78 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

You didn't let him listen to the SubMersive did you? That MIGHT have complicated matters.

Just kidding Archaea.

Haha, no didn't want to mess with that. When we demo'd the Die Hard scene with the corner loaded co-located dual Caps the Submersive wouldn't have had a chance anyway.

He told me he loved the subs but somehow expected more (he has no experience with listening to subs, just reading the forums). I have always felt the same way. The real life experiences never reach the descriptions that you read. I remember buying my first SVS cylinder a decade ago and expecting this house shaking crazy beast to arrive... ah... no.

The one exception is hearing the dual Orbit Shifters. That made all other subs seem like toys in my opinion.

I don't mean for music, I like the Submersive better, and I don't mean for movies and sane regular levels - the OS was just like the other great subs at those levels.

But when it's let loose and ran way hot the Orbit Shifter's truly deliver on all those over the top comments that you see about Subwoofers on this forum. (some of those comments made by me too over the years!!)
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post #79 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Haha, no didn't want to mess with that. When we demo'd the Die Hard scene with the corner loaded co-located dual Caps the Submersive wouldn't have had a chance anyway.

He told me he loved the subs but somehow expected more (he has no experience with listening to subs, just reading the forums). I have always felt the same way. The real life experiences never reach the descriptions that you read. I remember buying my first SVS cylinder a decade ago and expecting this house shaking crazy beast to arrive... ah... no.

The one exception is hearing the dual Orbit Shifters. That made all other subs seem like toys in my opinion.

I don't mean for music, I like the Submersive better, and I don't mean for movies and sane regular levels - the OS was just like the other great subs at those levels.

But when it's let loose and ran way hot the Orbit Shifter's truly deliver on all those over the top comments that you see about Subwoofers on this forum. (some of those comments made by me too over the years!!)

niiice.. hopefully I'll get to hear a OS someday and not do any permanent damage to my ears New England GTG anybody ?
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post #80 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

The real life experiences never reach the descriptions that you read.

But when it's let loose and ran way hot the Orbit Shifter's truly deliver on all those over the top comments that you see about Subwoofers on this forum. (some of those comments made by me too over the years!!)

On some forums I only hear how this sub would kill (Edit - just read decimate now too haha) that sub haha. I've yet to experience that.

Archaea, what would kill what in a head to head competition? A Captivator Pro or a Honey Badger?
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post #81 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:34pm
The way I would describe the OS is like punch club bass combined with automobile type of low bass all in one package. Clean and undistorted at very loud volumes.
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post #82 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

The way I would describe the OS is like punch club bass combined with automobile type of low bass all in one package. Clean and undistorted at very loud volumes.

I would also add to that it is kind of like riding on a roller coaster.
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post #83 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

You didn't let him listen to the SubMersive did you? That MIGHT have complicated matters.

Just kidding Archaea.

Doug,

ha

You know what - I still completely and honestly like my caps better than any other sub I've ever heard overall (including the orbit shifter, carp) SubM's are angelic, for music, but caps aren't far behind for music and the caps domineering for movie presentation rules the day for me...
When/If my mind changes and I hear better - I'll be happy (or maybe sad) to report otherwise - but I've not had that challenge yet.

carp, probably always liked the subm better and has been dealing with the shoulda, coulda thoughts - so he made the right switch for his personal preference. carp also could have used more amp than that EP4000 in his room with his seating position being so far away, but more power wouldn't have changed his preference for sound quality either --- so he still made the right decision. I have no problem feeling overwhelmed by bass in my room - even with an EP4000 amp on duty. My new XLS-5000 amp has more guts by a significant portion. At reference bass levels I don't see any clip lights whatsoever, and the caps are just loafing along. My theater chairs are shaking like they've got bass shakers in them --- and that's on a concrete floor. It's just too bad that's far too loud to listen to for very long --- because I really enjoy all that tactile feedback! When you feel up for it and my wife and children can have an alternate plan --- we'll get together and watch a movie over at my place.
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post #84 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

On some forums I only hear how this sub would kill (Edit - just read decimate now too haha) that sub haha. I've yet to experience that.

Archaea, what would kill what in a head to head competition? A Captivator Pro or a Honey Badger?



Honey Badger don't give a $*# ...That's a tough call.


ha -- for those that don't know the reference
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post #85 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post



Honey Badger don't give a $*# ...That's a tough call.

I figured a subwoofer is not able to kill a human since we are much larger, but come on, none of your cats were even hurt after the GTG. Not even a scratch or limp. Cats can't even carry 1 lb ankle weight. I think if anyones setups could kill a honey badger, it would be Greg's since he owns a clone amp. Either the badger will be on fire or his clone amp will get scared to death again.
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post #86 of 263
3/6/12 at 8:45pm
hhaha ^

somebody is on a roll tonight!
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post #87 of 263
3/6/12 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Doug,

ha

You know what - I still completely and honestly like my caps better than any other sub I've ever heard overall (including the orbit shifter, carp) SubM's are angelic, for music, but caps aren't far behind for music and the caps domineering for movie presentation rules the day for me...
When/If my mind changes and I hear better - I'll be happy (or maybe sad) to report otherwise - but I've not had that challenge yet.

carp, probably always liked the subm better and has been dealing with the shoulda, coulda thoughts - so he made the right switch for his personal preference. carp also could have used more amp than that EP4000 in his room with his seating position being so far away, but more power wouldn't have changed his preference for sound quality either --- so he still made the right decision. I have no problem feeling overwhelmed by bass in my room - even with an EP4000 amp on duty. My new XLS-5000 amp has more guts by a significant portion. At reference bass levels I don't see any clip lights whatsoever, and the caps are just loafing along. My theater chairs are shaking like they've got bass shakers in them --- and that's on a concrete floor. It's just too bad that's far too loud to listen to for very long --- because I really enjoy all that tactile feedback! When you feel up for it and my wife and children can have an alternate plan --- we'll get together and watch a movie over at my place.

Actually, I'd rather have the wife come along if you don't mind. We'll need to get a sitter for the little shits (I mean kids ) so we'll have to plan it.

You need to come over and ride 4-wheelers sometime soon too. I haven't had them out for like 2/3 months and I don't want the carbs getting all gunked up again.
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post #88 of 263
3/6/12 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Actually, I'd rather have the wife come along if you don't mind. We'll need to get a sitter for the little shits (I mean kids ) so we'll have to plan it.

You need to come over and ride 4-wheelers sometime soon too. I haven't had them out for like 2/3 months and I don't want the carbs getting all gunked up again.


That'd be fine! Speaking of four wheelers - I hope my carbs are all right, I've not started mine in months - yikes. I'd like to take it out sometime soon! I miss riding. There is a club called KCORR that I participated in the last couple years. They are a good group of guys and some additional riding partners if we can get out this year and want to be adventurous. I went with the group to Taylor Park Colorado a couple years ago. That was an awesome trip! We had a guide and saw the best spots and trails. I've got some of that adventure chronicled on youtube. A week worth of riding 80-100 miles a day in the mountains. Some days we'd go up and down two or three mountains! My KFX 700 did fine with two wheel drive, but at the tops of some of those peaks, even that mighty 700cc twin carb engine was bogged down with the lack of air.

check out 6:45 in this first vid - it's a good respresentation of a lot of the trip!
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post #89 of 263
3/6/12 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post


Hey man, good to see you on here. You're one of the few guys that has owned both Submersives and a Cap, so I'm glad you're here.

I would love to have 2 of each!!! I just can't spend that much money right now. Maybe eventually I could do something like that, but not anytime soon.

Talking to you on the phone I remember you saying you preferred the Submersives for music but the powered Cap for movies right? If I'm remembering that right then you and I have very similar tastes.

Have you decided on what you are going to do? Another powered Cap? Sealed dual Caps? Orbit Shifters?

Carp,
I don't blame you,we are talking close to $7k on subwoofers. As for me, after talking to both you and Arch I decided to go with another powered Cap with the 4000w amp, run them up front and maybe even add some Cinema 12's, using the Caps as stands, sound familiar?

I am a little leary about the C12's. I am still looking for some Klipsch Ultra KL650's, but want to talk to someone that has heard both. Talk to you soon and thanks for the help.

Jason
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post #90 of 263
3/6/12 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


Doug,

ha

You know what - I still completely and honestly like my caps better than any other sub I've ever heard overall (including the orbit shifter, carp) SubM's are angelic, for music, but caps aren't far behind for music and the caps domineering for movie presentation rules the day for me...
When/If my mind changes and I hear better - I'll be happy (or maybe sad) to report otherwise - but I've not had that challenge yet.

carp, probably always liked the subm better and has been dealing with the shoulda, coulda thoughts - so he made the right switch for his personal preference. carp also could have used more amp than that EP4000 in his room with his seating position being so far away, but more power wouldn't have changed his preference for sound quality either --- so he still made the right decision. I have no problem feeling overwhelmed by bass in my room - even with an EP4000 amp on duty. My new XLS-5000 amp has more guts by a significant portion. At reference bass levels I don't see any clip lights whatsoever, and the caps are just loafing along. My theater chairs are shaking like they've got bass shakers in them --- and that's on a concrete floor. It's just too bad that's far too loud to listen to for very long --- because I really enjoy all that tactile feedback! When you feel up for it and my wife and children can have an alternate plan --- we'll get together and watch a movie over at my place.

Archaea,
I agree with you 100%. I just ordered the 2nd Cap this week, 8000 watts of glory. Having owned both and with my HT preference, the Caps are for me! Let you know how it goes. Thanks for the advice the other day.

Jason
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