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Sunflower State Cinema - Page 9

post #241 of 582
Thread Starter 
And then there were 3.

1. FR701



2. Anchorage (sorta Grey's)



3. Anchorage (sorta Beige's)



Just to reiterate with the FR701 I can cover the speaker. With the Anchorage I will have Triad do a custom finish on the grill.

-I like number 1 because my surround speakers will be hidden.
-I like number 2 because it is dark so there is no concern with screen wash out. I also think these colors really look great together.
-I like number 3 because it is brighter and more inviting. If we have low level lighting on for parties or just listening to music it would be nice. But, those occasions are not my priority.

I am willing to change my carpet color if need be which would mean buying new carpet but rather not.

Also leaning towards painting the ceiling a darker color. Not black but just darker than I was considering before.
Edited by jedimastergrant - 6/9/13 at 7:43pm
post #242 of 582
Since you're worried about the lighter colors, could you setup an experiment to see how much light will make it past the "pillars" your L/R will be in. They'll act sort of like a shadow box for your screen so it may give you a little flexibility with colors. I really have no idea, and some of you guys may already know the answer without testing it out.
post #243 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Since you're worried about the lighter colors, could you setup an experiment to see how much light will make it past the "pillars" your L/R will be in. They'll act sort of like a shadow box for your screen so it may give you a little flexibility with colors. I really have no idea, and some of you guys may already know the answer without testing it out.

I did a little searching and found this link.

http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=966

HopefulFred posted it in this thread recently.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475294/why-is-dark-walls-so-important

It is a test from Jeff Meier of AccuCal. It does something very similar to what you are describing. The results are pretty dramatic. According to this test a light colored room will cause the image to lose a great amount of contrast.

I think you are spot on in regards to just how important the first few feet are and the proscenium will help tremendously in my opinion.

I really don't want to go too dark with the room but I also don't want to have any regrets. So it looks like it will be a darker color scheme for me to preserve as much contrast as I can. Another concern is how light colored walls would light up during bright scenes. Especially a scene that quickly transitions between dark and light. I can imagine it would be very distracting for me to have the walls light up suddenly and take me out of the experience.

Of course everyone's tolerance is different for these types of things. But, I tend to go to extremes with my AV obsession as many of us do. Here is a short clip that describes what I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zIY6DQSlbY
Edited by jedimastergrant - 6/10/13 at 12:40pm
post #244 of 582
Thread Starter 
Primer question.

I going to prime the theater this week with drywall primer. I think I saw it posted somewhere to get the primer tinted gray in order to get it a few shades closer to black if it will be painted black eventually. Just to make it a little easier. Makes sense to me. Any objections?

Paint question.

The area behind my false wall will be completely covered in black sound treatments so I was not planning to paint it. It will have gray primer on it though. Is this a mistake?

The walls for the rest of the theater will be covered in fabric so I am unsure if I need to paint them either. I don't want the walls to show through of course. The fabric will be fairly dark in color. I have pretty much decided to go with the darker grayish tones color scheme in an above post. The way I understand it you don't want to have a big difference in the color or it will show up. So is gray sufficient or does it need to be black? I might be able to test this out for myself but if someone knows the answer it would save me some trouble.

And how about the fabric frames themselves? I assume they need to be painted as well.

I have seen a few people put black fabric behind the outer fabric but that seems like a lot of fabric, money, and time.
Edited by jedimastergrant - 6/10/13 at 2:01pm
post #245 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Primer question.

I going to prime the theater this week with drywall primer. I think I saw it posted somewhere to get the primer tinted gray in order to get it a few shades closer to black if it will be painted black eventually. Just to make it a little easier. Makes sense to me. Any objections?

It's just me but I wouldn't worry about it. Two coats of a high quality flat black and you'll never know that you used a light colored primer. I DO recommend a primer though, I didn't prime my ceiling anf it took three coats for good coverage and I was using commercial Sherwin Williams paint that covers great!





Paint question.

The area behind my false wall will be completely covered in black sound treatments so I was not planning to paint it. It will have gray primer on it though. Is this amistake?

I wouldn't have anything but black behind an AT screen. The only downside to blackening everything behind the screen it that you can't see diddly squat back there afterwards, when your working! Even with the work light on (I installed a 100w closet fixture with a pull rope) I can't hardly see what I am doing and laugh at my "black hole" visibility.

The walls for the rest of the theater will be covered in fabric so I am unsure if I need to paint them either. I don't want the walls to show through of course. The fabric will be fairly dark in color. I have pretty much decided to go with the darker grayish tones color scheme in an above post. The way I understand it you don't want to have a big difference in the color or it will show up. So is gray sufficient or does it need to be black? I might be able to test this out for myself but if someone knows the answer it would save me some trouble.

And how about the fabric frames themselves? I assume they need to be paintedas well.

The walls, no. The frames...maybe. I did a test on my frames and placed a painted board (black) and a non-painted one behind my fabric and decided. My tapestry fabric was ok for either, but the brown and black GOM had a tiny amount of see through under direct lighting. I know it would never see direct lighting in the theater, but I painted all of the frames anyway.
post #246 of 582
Thread Starter 
Bronco,

-My treatments that will go behind the front wall are all black so I thought that I would not need to paint the wall since it would all be covered in black treatments.

-One of my regrets is not installing a light at all back there. I will have to place a battery operated light somewhere behind the false wall.

-So it looks like I do need to paint the frames. I figured. I was planning to paint all of the false wall and the removable frames that will go on that wall as well.
post #247 of 582
Painting the frames isn't that bad if you buy one of those 4" rollers and just touch up the inside corners with a brush. That's what I did and it was fast and easy. If I had to do things all over though, I would have drug my airless sprayer downstairs and sprayed everything. (ceiling and screen wall) the frames weren't built until the columns were built and installed.
post #248 of 582
I didn't want any unfinished drywall in my room, so I chose to texture and prime the walls even though they would be covered with fabric panels. I guess the thought was I could remove all the panels and furring strips without too much trouble if someone wanted to convert/modify the room, but I think it was mostly my ocd rearing it's ugly head. Most of my panels have a 1" linacoustic insert for acoustic reasons, but a few panels towards the back of the side walls are empty (no treatment). At these locations, the standard primer did show through the fabric under flash photography so I went back and hit those wall sections with some leftover black paint. Perhaps a tinted primer will make this a non-issue. If not, I'm sure you'll have some black paint leftover from painting your fabric frames. You would only need to hit the sections not covered by linacoustic.

A tinted primer could have probably saved me one extra coat on the black soffit, so I would recommend a tinted gray primer.
post #249 of 582
Thanks Grant, For letting my wife and I come see your progress. It really helped get us motivated and gave us a lot of great ideas for our room. It has helped my wife really visualize what our room will look like once we get drywall up. To her it just looked like wood on a wall. Where yours really looks like a room. I can't wait to see yours completed.
post #250 of 582
Thread Starter 
Hey, thanks Tim. Glad it helped. For whatever reason I am kinda hitting a wall and having trouble motivating myself to finish things off. Probably because all of the work involved with constructing the fabric panels. So it helps to have folks drop by and give the ol' thumbs up.

I finished painting the room after you left and it has darkened things up in there considerably. I am a little shocked at how dark it is in there right now just with the gray primer. I need to get the can lights wired so I can see again. The plan is to do that this week.
post #251 of 582
Well I have been through your thread over the last several days and it has been quite nice and informative as I plan for a build in the future. Keep on truckin! Looking forward to the finished product!
post #252 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well I have been through your thread over the last several days and it has been quite nice and informative as I plan for a build in the future. Keep on truckin! Looking forward to the finished product!

Thanks! Getting ready to prime the rope light bar and the door casing tomorrow before it gets put together. Will try to post some pics after it is done.
post #253 of 582
Thread Starter 
Bit of Electrical

We did some of the electrical. Still have some to go but here is the progress.

Step lights installed. They are ELCO ELST62 mini incandescent step lights. There is another step on the other side of the room.

Also installed the receptacle that goes on that side. There is another one on the other side. I went with a brown receptacle and a paintable wood cover but might change my mind.



Here are the 2 outlets behind the false wall. One is a dedicated 20 amp for the JTR Orbit Shifter. The other is on a separate circuit and is for possible powered speakers. That same circuit is run to my AV rack to power my amplifier currently.



This is the outlet for my secondary sub. The same circuit runs to my AV rack in case I want to go with a passive DIY sub down the road and use a rack mountable amplifier. (hmm pic looks dark so might need to retake)

post #254 of 582
Thread Starter 
Surround speakers ordered

Shawn Byrne of Erskine Group spec'd Triad in wall Bronze Surrounds in my Pro Theater Layout so I ordered them from Dennis today.



http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/iwb4sur.html

I am getting the custom painted grill option. My plan is to flush mount the speaker with my 4'' fabric covered panels. They will not disappear but as long as they don't scream "here I am " I think I will be ok with it.
post #255 of 582
Thread Starter 
Projection booth/AV rack area

We did some work on the 3' x 9' area behind the theater where my projector will go. It will also have the front face of my AV rack and the pull out media rack.

-Subfloor was put in. I am thinking about putting hardwood in this area so my slide out media rack has something hard to roll on. It will use castors to support the large weight.
-A light switch was hooked up to a large can light. It is so nice to have light in there again!
-We framed out a 3/4 door leading to the area underneath of the stairwell. It can only be 3/4 because the projector will go right in front of the door.
-A dedicated 20 amp outlet was hooked up where the projector shelf will go.



This angle shows the area framed out for the AV rack on the right and the slide out media rack on the left. And to the far left is the door to the storage area to get to the rear of the rack.
We put a series of 2 x 4's and 3/4 plywood down as a base for the AV rack.

post #256 of 582
Wow man, everything is really coming along!!!

I missed a bunch of posts somehow, I had this thread in my profile list of threads but lost track of it for the last couple pages or so. This is going to be the best room I've ever been in. Come to think of it, I haven't even been in a room with an AT screen or a truly dedicated room. Your room is dedicated and then some, I'm loving it man. smile.gif

Do you have any evenings next week that I could come by and take a look? Love to see it in person.
post #257 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Wow man, everything is really coming along!!!

I missed a bunch of posts somehow, I had this thread in my profile list of threads but lost track of it for the last couple pages or so. This is going to be the best room I've ever been in. Come to think of it, I haven't even been in a room with an AT screen or a truly dedicated room. Your room is dedicated and then some, I'm loving it man. smile.gif

Do you have any evenings next week that I could come by and take a look? Love to see it in person.

Oh sure now that the 5,000 lbs of sand is already safely tucked away in the stage you somehow "find" the thread again!wink.gif

Ha! Yeah, I would love to show you around. I had MrSmithers and Stitch1 here recently too. Any evening after 8 is fine. My day off is Thursday.

If we end up having a KC home theater tour you need to take the opportunity to go to Randy Bessinger's room. It will quickly take top honors. His room is a big reason I decided to go "all in" or at least as much as I can afford to be in. His room has Procella speakers, Quest treatments, and was professionally calibrated by Shawn Byrne to name a few things that set it apart. It is a true surround sound experience the likes of which most people do not even realize exists.
post #258 of 582
Thread Starter 
Door Questions.

I am having trouble figuring out how to get a door to open up with 2'' treatments on both the door and the wall. I need the door to swing out 90 degrees.

I would really like to have a flush look with the overall design I am going for as illustrated in the target theater pic I posted a week or so ago. I imagine that my fabric frames covering my 2'' treatments will need to be 2 1/4'' in order to prevent the treatments from touching the fabric. So we cut down some 3/4 mdf to make our own door jambs and made them extra wide so that they can come out into the room the 2'' or so if that is necessary. It is my understanding that if using a standard hinge configuration that the hinge point will need to come out just a hair beyond the fabric panels themselves and that would be 2 1/4''. So now do I need to find a hinge that will have the screws located at least 2 1/4'' from the hinge in order to meet up with the door?

I am a little confused and I could use some direction. I have never hung a door before much less one that weighs several hundred pounds and needs to clear all of the panels.

Here is my plan for the doors.

-Buy a solid 1 3/4'' slab door from a local building supplier. (I have not located one yet)
-Add a layer of 1/2'' mdf to both sides of the door using green glue between. So that would be a 1/2'' layer on each side.
-That makes the door 2 3/4'' total width. It will be a 32'' door and approx 78'' high.
-Zero International seals all around

Here is my plan for the hinges (or lack thereof).

I was planning to use ball bearing heavy duty hinges. Use between 3-4 based on mfr specs. We cut down our extra wide door jamb material so I think we could mount the hinge into that as it comes out into the room? Am I mistaken? We were planning on putting a 2x2 or similar on the wall behind the mdf so the screws have something more to grab onto if needed.

It may be difficult to locate an affordable heavy duty ball bearing wide throw butt hinge with the dimensions I need but if someone has a source please share it. I was also looking at the following hinges from stanley. They are specialty hinges for applications like this but they would stick out onto the wall in the room and prevent me from having the completely flush look I was hoping for. Still, I could go that way if forced to. http://www.stanleyhinges.com/CatalogCuts/Stanley-FBB268.pdf

In way over my head! Help!

(do I dare bring up door handles too!) 2 3/4'' door with 2 1/4'' panels on top of that. Oh my.......
post #259 of 582
Thread Starter 
I found this heavy duty ball bearing butt hinge from hardware source. It is 8 x 8 steel. I would only need 3 according to the weight specs.

http://www.hardwaresource.com/hinges/SPECIALTY+HINGES/Heavy+Duty+Hinges/Heavy+Duty+Door+Hinges/Heavy+Duty+Butt+Hinge%2C+Steel%2C+8%22+x+8%22%2C+Ball+Bearing#

Does the actual hinge need to be just clear of the 2 1/4'' fabric wall frame? Or can the hinge be flush with the wall panel? This will make a little bit of difference. I need as much biting into the door as possible.

There is not a diagram of this hinge so can I assume that the hinge will be 4'' across when folded closed? If so, then after I subtract 2 1/4 for the panel I would still have 1 3/4 that could bite into my 2 3/4 door. That is assuming the hinge can be flush mounted just within the depth of the 2 1/4 panel.

Too many assumptions here. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
post #260 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Oh sure now that the 5,000 lbs of sand is already safely tucked away in the stage you somehow "find" the thread again!wink.gif

Ha! Yeah, I would love to show you around. I had MrSmithers and Stitch1 here recently too. Any evening after 8 is fine. My day off is Thursday.

If we end up having a KC home theater tour you need to take the opportunity to go to Randy Bessinger's room. It will quickly take top honors. His room is a big reason I decided to go "all in" or at least as much as I can afford to be in. His room has Procella speakers, Quest treatments, and was professionally calibrated by Shawn Byrne to name a few things that set it apart. It is a true surround sound experience the likes of which most people do not even realize exists.

Haha, oops!!

Ok, cool maybe Tuesday evening?

Speaking of Randy, I still have his Pioneer speakers that I need to get back to him so that will give me a great excuse to check out his theater! smile.gif
post #261 of 582
Thread Starter 
Tuesday is great.

You need to have Randy play the Master and Commander scene. It is the first time I really understood what surround sound was supposed to sound like. Very impressive. The entire system is so well integrated it just acts as a cohesive unit. From the front channels to the surrounds and the subs. It is all completely seamless just the way it should be.
post #262 of 582
Which one?
post #263 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Tuesday is great.

You need to have Randy play the Master and Commander scene. It is the first time I really understood what surround sound was supposed to sound like. Very impressive. The entire system is so well integrated it just acts as a cohesive unit. From the front channels to the surrounds and the subs. It is all completely seamless just the way it should be.


I remember you describing that way back when you first saw his room, so yeah I definitely want that scene.
post #264 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Which one?

The one he used is the first ship to ship battle at the beginning of the movie. Is it called "opening battle"? Not sure.

But, it has many cannon shots that rip through the ships and the surround mix is excellent. In Randy's room the cannon fire seems to be tearing the room that you are sitting in apart. It is a level of immersion that I bet very few people have in their theaters and I am trying to get as close as I can to it. It was a pinnacle experience for me as far as surround sound is concerned. The sub integration is amazing as well. Very tight and cohesive surround field. Everything is just locked in place. Nothing seems to be acting on its own. You don't get the sense of discrete channels. Instead, you just get the sounds from the battle coming from exactly where they look like they are coming from in the movie and then it actually seems to move through the room and exit the other side. Cool stuff. I could go on and on but I won't.
Edited by jedimastergrant - 6/24/13 at 8:43pm
post #265 of 582
What kind of surrounds does Randy have? Dipoles?
post #266 of 582
Thread Starter 
He has Procella P6's as surrounds. They are direct radiators but apparently the dispersion characteristics were well applied to his dimensions because you don't get the sense of a speaker being anywhere. Just that the sounds are coming from where they should come from in the soundtrack. He also has a full Quest treatment plan with QSC processing and I would guess several days worth of professional audio calibration from Shawn.

I don't want to hype it up for you too much. You should just go listen for yourself. But I think it is a well calibrated and balanced room with an immersive surround field.
Edited by jedimastergrant - 6/25/13 at 7:05am
post #267 of 582
Thread Starter 
I put a coat of drywall primer on the theater. It was tinted gray as I had seen suggested in a few other threads. It made the room SO dark! These pics are pretty dark because of the low lighting in the room. I plan to get some more pics for you guys with better lighting but here goes for now.

Front wall



Entry way wall



Rear



My tentative plan is to leave the walls behind the fabric this gray color unless someone knows that I would be able to see the walls from behind the fabric.
post #268 of 582
Man, you aren't kidding those pics look way darker. I'm excited for you man, it's all coming together! I'm nervous though, the last thing I need is the itch to do a dedicated room and I think you might inspire that. Ha, doesn't matter though, I can't afford it.

Have you decided what to do for speakers? Are you thinking SEOS at all? Sorry if you posted about it and i missed it.
post #269 of 582
Congrats on progress ! Looking good.
post #270 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Man, you aren't kidding those pics look way darker. I'm excited for you man, it's all coming together! I'm nervous though, the last thing I need is the itch to do a dedicated room and I think you might inspire that. Ha, doesn't matter though, I can't afford it.

Have you decided what to do for speakers? Are you thinking SEOS at all? Sorry if you posted about it and i missed it.

The budget being what it is the SEOS designs are very interesting. I am waiting to hear MrSmithers SEOS speakers he is putting together. Hopefully compare them to the Noesis 212 and the 228 at your place. As always the budget rules all. I would like to hear the Triad Golds up against the Procella P6's as well.
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