or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sunflower State Cinema - Page 3

post #61 of 582
Hey Grant,

I finally got a chance to come look at your build tread. Nice dogs J/k

Looks like you have a pretty good area to do your build. I am not great at coming up with ideas from pictures but if you ever need a hand or just want to hang out and brainstorm I'm all for it.

To help with your question on the DIY screen the more material the better. I would want at least 6" all the way around. But that will depend a lot on the design of your screen. The reason I say 6"s is you want enough to grab and pull out any wrinkles or waves that might develop on the viewable area. Again it will depend on how you plan to build your screen.

-Tim
post #62 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

That would be great. I have a small sample but something tells me I will get a much better idea of how the material will look with a larger chunk. I will PM you.
Congrats on watching your first movie! I just thumbed through your thread and I noticed there are a few similarities to what I already have and hope to do.

-JVC RS45
-Denon 4311
-Design of the stage (Sunset Cinema)
-Screen wall from Big's Minimalist approach to screen wall thread
............too many other similarities to list...........
Your thread is quite large so if I can ask a few questions.
1. Did you use a minisplit bc your main AC would not cut the mustard or was it bc of noise issues?
2. What made you jump onto the soundproofing wagon? (I am currently conflicted)
3. Any suggestions for me as I start my quickie build. Don't laugh. I know I'll be watch'n movies in no time!

Jedi,

Sorry I missed this post before now. Here are some answers to your questions.
1. I used a minisplit because I wanted to be able to cool my room in the middle of the winter. When I bought the minisplit, I added a low-ambient controller that allowed me this flexibility. My family visited this past Sunday to demo the room a bit - with 8 people in there, it got warm quickly. If we were watching a full movie, I would have needed cooling. Because the space in in the basement (underground), there is not much of a difference between winter and summer in the theater room.

2. I went with the soundproofing because I didnt want to regret NOT soundproofing after the room was finished. Looking back, I am glad I did it. You are spending good money on your equipment (to me at least), so additional cost of soundproofing is not really that much. When comparing the noise level both inside and outside of my room compared to others, I can tell you it makes big difference - it doesnt work miracles, but it helps a ton.

3. Suggestions. I just reread your first post, just a couple things that jump out at me.
- good call on using the Erskine design services, thats the one thing I wish I had done...mainly because I am at the room treatment point and have no idea what I am doing
- I would make sure you have a heating/cooling plan for the theater
- the screen seems a little narrow for my taste, but that is more of a personal preference. I pretty much maxed mine out, and I feel like it could be bigger.
- if you soundproof, you shouldnt have to worry about footsteps shaking your projector.

I just subscribed to your thread, so if you have any additional questions you shouldnt have to wait two weeks for a response;)
post #63 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Hey Grant,
I finally got a chance to come look at your build tread. Nice dogs J/k
Looks like you have a pretty good area to do your build. I am not great at coming up with ideas from pictures but if you ever need a hand or just want to hang out and brainstorm I'm all for it.
To help with your question on the DIY screen the more material the better. I would want at least 6" all the way around. But that will depend a lot on the design of your screen. The reason I say 6"s is you want enough to grab and pull out any wrinkles or waves that might develop on the viewable area. Again it will depend on how you plan to build your screen.
-Tim

Tim,

You are welcome to come look at it and I think the more eyes on it the better. Things make a lot more sense when you are standing in the space. I am hoping to do some major work the weekend of the 18th. And I don't know what I am doing. If you do have time to help that would be awesome but I understand either way. No obligation.
post #64 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brausch View Post

Jedi,
Sorry I missed this post before now. Here are some answers to your questions.
1. I used a minisplit because I wanted to be able to cool my room in the middle of the winter. When I bought the minisplit, I added a low-ambient controller that allowed me this flexibility. My family visited this past Sunday to demo the room a bit - with 8 people in there, it got warm quickly. If we were watching a full movie, I would have needed cooling. Because the space in in the basement (underground), there is not much of a difference between winter and summer in the theater room.
2. I went with the soundproofing because I didnt want to regret NOT soundproofing after the room was finished. Looking back, I am glad I did it. You are spending good money on your equipment (to me at least), so additional cost of soundproofing is not really that much. When comparing the noise level both inside and outside of my room compared to others, I can tell you it makes big difference - it doesnt work miracles, but it helps a ton.
3. Suggestions. I just reread your first post, just a couple things that jump out at me.
- good call on using the Erskine design services, thats the one thing I wish I had done...mainly because I am at the room treatment point and have no idea what I am doing
- I would make sure you have a heating/cooling plan for the theater
- the screen seems a little narrow for my taste, but that is more of a personal preference. I pretty much maxed mine out, and I feel like it could be bigger.
- if you soundproof, you shouldnt have to worry about footsteps shaking your projector.
I just subscribed to your thread, so if you have any additional questions you shouldnt have to wait two weeks for a response;)

I think I am going to sound proof too because once the theater is done it is nearly impossible to change my mind and I have heard that it can be highly advantageous if done properly.

The HVAC stuff is good to know. I don't have mine figured out yet but if I end up ripping out the existing drywall it will be much easier to do right.

The screen is 9 ft wide and I can't get much wider without running into viewing problems with the side seats (if I want to get in 5 seats in the back row) because my speakers are set in front of my screen and angled in. I could go a little wider (and I might) but my front seat is only 9.5 ft from the screen so that makes for a viewing angle of just over 50 degrees. That is a pretty big viewing angle. I like it that way but they do say that the screen always shrinks so maybe I should go even bigger.

Another thing about the screen is that I want to do a constant image area setup so the screen you probably saw was 2.35. My 1.78 image will be 8 inches taller (4 on top and 4 on bottom) but not as wide.

Thanks for the feedback. Keep'em coming.
post #65 of 582
Could you explain the constant image area concept a bit and the reason for going with it over constant image height? I ask because I am using a 16x9 screen now and am planing on moving to a 2.40:1 screen once I build my theater.

I have read a little about CIA but I don't fully understand it. From what I gather its a really tall and wide screen kinda like an IMax screen that you then will have taller 16x9 image and shorter by wider 2.40 image. Is this correct? How will you mask for each of these?
post #66 of 582
You can go as wide as your room allows or as high as your room allows, or both. In my room, I couldn't go wider than 110". If I had chosen a 2.35 ratio screen, for 16:9 my screen height would have ben only 46" instead of 62" and seemed too small. I decided to go with a 110" 16:9 screen. That actually now seems a little big for my viewing distance. If I had gone constant area (or close to it) my screen would have been around 2.08:1 and would have been 53" tall and 110" wide. I would have gotten the 110" width for 2.35 movies, but more height for 16:9 TV shows and movies. However, it wouldn't have needed to be as tall as a full 16:9 screen that is 110" wide.

You don't have to have constant area. You can actually choose whatever height and width you want that works with your space available and use the projector's zoom and vertical adjustment to fit anything into the screen by filling either width or height. You also only need to mask the top for 2.35 or both sides for 16:9 since you can shift the image to the bottom of the screen with different aspect ratio content.
post #67 of 582
Here are some examples of constant image area:

post #68 of 582
Thanks Deserdome, the pics really help.

I currently have a 110" diagonal 16x9 screen and sit around 11' or so feet from it. This is about as tall of a screen I can comfortably fit in my basement. I believe my image height is around 54"inches. So in my next theater I plan to be around the same distance from the screen (around 12') but will be going CIH so my 16x9 content will still look the same as it does now but my cinema scope content will look massive around 130" inches wide.

I have wanted to go this route for a while but going to carps house does not help!!!
post #69 of 582
Thread Starter 
CIH, CIW, and CIA

Here is my take on screen ratios. Whenever you fix your screen ratio you have automatically relegated the "other" screen ratio to a much smaller size. I would much rather get a roughly 2.0 to 1 screen and then put both 2.35 and 1.78 material inside of that screen so they both have the same viewable image area.

If you experiment with a projector on a large wall and vary the image size of 1.78 and 2.35 content for long enough you begin to realize that both the height and width are important and that one should not be assigned priority over the other. I think it is more appropriate to keep the image area constant between the various ratios.

I have seen it stated after choosing to utilize CIH that their 2.35 ratio films are now seen "as the director intended". I think this comment is somewhat misleading. What the director actually intended was to display the movie in a certain format with a certain framing strategy. The size of 2.35 to 1.78 has nothing to do with this artistic choice. As long as that is understood, then I think it is fine that people choose to have their 2.35 content be larger than their 1.78 content if they have to make a choice. That is what I would do if I had to make a compromise.

I have also seen it stated after choosing to utilize CIH that their 2.35 ratio films are now much more cinematic and jaw dropping than ever before. Then they go on to say that their 1.78 films are still very "pleasing". Pleasing? Personally, I did not spend many thousands of dollars to have a "pleasing" experience while watching Avatar or Hellboy or Resident Evil or Band of Brothers or hundreds of other 16:9 films. I want nothing less than to be blown away by what I am seeing. I want a completely enveloping experience no matter the format.

Everyone makes a compromise. After the compromise is made it is difficult to admit that you made one.

I feel that CIA is the way to go and presents fewer compromises.

So my screen will be roughly 2.0:1 ratio. When viewing 2.35 films I will mask the top and bottom with removable manual panels. When watching 1.78 films will mask the left and right sides. The screen area will remain constant.

I think the ultimate screen would be an infinitely variable screen size so you could tailor the size to the quality of the source. It would require complicated masking system or a very expensive one. I might do it at a much later date but after I finish my room I won't have the energy.
post #70 of 582
^ one could argue you are compromising on both fronts by attempting to meet in the middle. wink.gif
post #71 of 582
post #72 of 582
Have you run riser height calculations? I was limited on ceiling height in my room. In order to ensure my second row viewers could see the bottom of the screen, I had to keep the screen high and wide. A big 16:9 screen is useless if the viewers in the second row can't see it.

I see you have a 7'-9" ceiling, so it might be worth checking into if you haven't. If you have, and it still works, then I think there is a lot of merit to your CIA idea.

One more thing to add, I would make it very easy to add/remove masking. I don't have any yet, but if it becomes a pain I think it would be easy to get lazy and not use the masking. Maybe having a projector with good blacks makes it seem allowable.
post #73 of 582
CIA would be very nice if you had a masking system, but some people do not want to see the black bars. Also it is easier to mask a scope. Screen.
Reply
Reply
post #74 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

^ one could argue you are compromising on both fronts by attempting to meet in the middle. wink.gif

Imagine a 2.0:1 screen that is as big as your wall. You can then use ANY size 2.35 or 1.78 image and use custom masking panels to frame the image. So you are not limited in size on either format! That is an advantage worth going with in my book. Maybe not perfect but better than CIH or CIW in my opinion.
Edited by jedimastergrant - 8/12/12 at 7:48pm
post #75 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brausch View Post

Have you run riser height calculations? I was limited on ceiling height in my room. In order to ensure my second row viewers could see the bottom of the screen, I had to keep the screen high and wide. A big 16:9 screen is useless if the viewers in the second row can't see it.
I see you have a 7'-9" ceiling, so it might be worth checking into if you haven't. If you have, and it still works, then I think there is a lot of merit to your CIA idea.
One more thing to add, I would make it very easy to add/remove masking. I don't have any yet, but if it becomes a pain I think it would be easy to get lazy and not use the masking. Maybe having a projector with good blacks makes it seem allowable.

Yes, I also have a ceiling height problem. It is VERY close if I want to have a 54" tall image for 16:9 content. I have the support beam near the front of the room and it complicates thing significantly.

When Archaea was over last time he pointed out that my room would look better if I just extended the soffit that will go around the support beam towards the front of the room to meet up with my false wall and screen. He is absolutely right but then that soffit would overlap with my screen by about 1 inch. I would also be worried about reflections off of the ceiling. I would have to cover it with black velvet or something but it is still worrisome.
post #76 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

CIA would be very nice if you had a masking system, but some people do not want to see the black bars. Also it is easier to mask a scope. Screen.

It is easier to mask a scope screen for sure. I will have a masking system no matter which way I go. I will never see black bars. That would be unacceptable. My system will be manual removable panels. Either compression fit or rare earth magnets.

And like I said before, CIH is the compromise I would make if I needed to. I would just rather not make a compromise and have as large of an image that I want for any content.
post #77 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

this might help.
aspect ratios.jpg.jpg 91k .jpg file

Tedd,

Thanks for the pictures.

To take things up a notch. It would be even better to have a series of 4 masking panels for each image size you desire. That way you could have say 2 sizes of each format. Of course you have to make more panels and put them up each time.

It might be better to utilize curtain masking components for both vertical and horizontal and have an infinitely variable image size system. It is just difficult to do.
post #78 of 582
Thread Starter 
Full Sound Proofing with Ted!

The decision is made and I will be placing my order shortly. This was a tough choice bc it takes directly out of my budget for other things and since the room was already finished it means ripping out most of the existing dw. There are a few walls that are built with the studs decoupled from the foundation walls so we do not need to clip and channel them. Only need to add another layer of dw with gg between.

My plan is clips, channel, osb, dw with gg between. I will be addressing the HVAC with a soffit muffler supply and a dead vent return. I will detail that in another post. I am also doing a communicating door at the entrance and I will show some details on why that was actually an easy decision as it is related to the location of my future dead vent return.

A few days ago I ripped out the dw on the rear wall that backs to the stairwell which is of course of huge importance to decouple since as Ted informed me it is one of the few areas that is connected to your whole house!

Here is the result.

Before

photo-3.jpg

After

photo-1.jpg

photo.jpg

Well, there is no going back now!

Had to look at mini vans all day yesterday (which is also coming out of the HT budget). I think I will take out my frustration on the ceiling! Pics to follow.......
post #79 of 582
I sincerely believe you made the right choice. FYI, if you have a laser level use it, the clips and channel go up in no time.
post #80 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

I sincerely believe you made the right choice. FYI, if you have a laser level use it, the clips and channel go up in no time.

Thanks Dave I at least have access to one and so I will learn how to use it.

Now that the dw is coming out I will have no problem running wiring in the walls. I was planning to run some kind of 4" ish flex duct in a few of the ceiling joists from the rear to the front of the room. I was also planning to use 12 ga cl2 rated in wall speaker cable from mono price. I placed an order last night. My front 3 speakers could have runs of up to 60 ft. Am I covered? I used a few of the resources often cited here and it indicated that 14 was sufficient so I decided to do a little overkill bc it is pretty cheap. Am I covered?

What else do I need to run up there? I was thinking about an ir repeater and maybe an hdmi cable and possibly an Ethernet cable. I don't even know what for but just wanting to ask.

Oh yeah I need to run a cable for my orbit shifter. Since the run is so long at at least 50' what do you guys recommend? Is the mono price RCA cable ok? Edit. It uses an xlr balanced connector.
Edited by jedimastergrant - 8/20/12 at 7:16am
post #81 of 582
Monoprice should be fine. Very good bang for buck and build quality is good too. Occasionally and rarely i see a few people complain about some hum issue but are not sure if it is due to the cable or not. If you want something which is not as expensive as bluejean or not as cheap as monoprice go for what Mark Seaton recommends for his products http://www.markertek.com/Cables/Audi...C50XXJ-B.xhtml I used them and find them to be very good.

I just got back home with the orbitshifter this weekend. during the demo with bass clips in Jeff's room the sub was running hot and the room was literally trembling and vibrating including the projector so i hope the gauge for the hat channel you are purchasing is higher than what is recommended.
post #82 of 582
post #83 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by laptopdoc View Post

Monoprice should be fine. Very good bang for buck and build quality is good too. Occasionally and rarely i see a few people complain about some hum issue but are not sure if it is due to the cable or not. If you want something which is not as expensive as bluejean or not as cheap as monoprice go for what Mark Seaton recommends for his products http://www.markertek.com/Cables/Audi...C50XXJ-B.xhtml I used them and find them to be very good.
I just got back home with the orbitshifter this weekend. during the demo with bass clips in Jeff's room the sub was running hot and the room was literally trembling and vibrating including the projector so i hope the gauge for the hat channel you are purchasing is higher than what is recommended.

Hey congrats on the orbit shifter! I know we talked about how you have already owned an amazing sub in the jl audio Gotham but I trust the orbit shifter demo did not disappoint! I am glad there are a few more of these subs trickling into HT's.

My plan was to use the recommended 25 ga dw furring channel (hat channel) for added flex. What did you use for yours? I have not purchased it yet either so where is a good (and cheap) source?
post #84 of 582
I've heard best practice is to run balanced cable (like XLR) for the greatest distance and then convert to unbalanced RCA only at the end.

Not sure if there is science behind that or not because ultimately you still end up converting to unbalanced cable, but that's what I've read.
post #85 of 582
Thanks, The Orbitshifter was finally my personal preference and is awesome. I had to go back and forth multiple times on AVS going through threads about the orbitshifters,submersives,captivators and the newer caps2 before making the decision. I used 7/8" 25gauge and your best bet for the cheapest price is to shop around your local hardware stores. Regarding weight distribution information and whisper clip placement before you install hat channel and drywall, you will get pdf documents(SIM manuals) from soundproofing company when you purchase the clips and glue from them.
post #86 of 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Ding Dong!
Honey, there is something at the door called an Orbit Shifter!?!?!?!?!?
Do you know anything about this?

That's funny stuff, there!


I know I'm a little late to the party, but I enjoyed that little sub moving photo documentary!








..
Edited by J_P_A - 8/20/12 at 11:08am
post #87 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I've heard best practice is to run balanced cable (like XLR) for the greatest distance and then convert to unbalanced RCA only at the end.
Not sure if there is science behind that or not because ultimately you still end up converting to unbalanced cable, but that's what I've read.

Archaea,

I think that is exactly what I need to do. I think the XLR balanced cables are supposed to be better for long distances. But, my Denon 4311 only has RCA outputs for the sub 1 and sub 2 to my knowledge so I need to get a shorter XLR to RCA converter for that connection.

Mono price is out of the 75 ft. Drat! They seem to have the best prices yet again. I think the more expensive cables mainly have better connectors which is useful for pro applications but in an HT I am thinking I will be fine.

They do have 50 ftin stock and it might be close if I want to move the OS to the other side of the room. I don't think I will want to do that bc the only place I can put the second sub is in the rear left corner and if I remember correctly the best configuration for subs is in opposing corners (caddy corner). Maybe with the converter extension it could work.
post #88 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by laptopdoc View Post

Thanks, The Orbitshifter was finally my personal preference and is awesome. I had to go back and forth multiple times on AVS going through threads about the orbitshifters,submersives,captivators and the newer caps2 before making the decision. I used 7/8" 25gauge and your best bet for the cheapest price is to shop around your local hardware stores. Regarding weight distribution information and whisper clip placement before you install hat channel and drywall, you will get pdf documents(SIM manuals) from soundproofing company when you purchase the clips and glue from them.

I will give you the advice I was given. "Bend with your knees!"

P.S. I will add to that to take the plastic off. (:oI really can't believe I did that:o)

I still remember the fun Jeff had with us at Archaea's blind sub GTG at the end when he let the dual OS's loose. The pressurization was so intense it was like being underwater and being beaten a little bit all over your body and indeed through your body. You could feel your lungs resonating! VERY intense!
post #89 of 582
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

That's funny stuff, there!
I know I'm a little late to the party, but I enjoyed that little sub moving photo documentary!
..

Hey, it was my pleasure. I had a lot of fun doing that. I wish I had even taken a few more pics. But, here is one or two more just because they are so darn cute!

photo-5.jpg

photo-6.jpg

Nobody call CPS I promise it was not on! No twins were harmed during this photo shoot.

It does kind of look like the big bad Orbit Shifter is going to swallow them up though!
post #90 of 582
Thanks for the advice. cant wait for my room to be finished. I was just about to post about , how come you did not add the pics with the cutie pies near the orbitshifter and here they are!. I forgot to mention when purchasing the clips and glue that, its also a good idea to purchase some IB3 clips if you want to anchor the stud walls to other walls and to use them at whatever place you think is needed. they give great stability.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home