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Picked up a sharp LC-60LE640U - not happy

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hey all,

I picked up a Sharp LC-60LE640U (LED/120HZ/no 3d) this weekend at Best Buy. After having it at home for a couple of days I'm just not liking some things about it. Maybe you can help:

1) Soap Opera Effect:
I've taken the default "standard" configuration and turned off motion enhancement and film mode yet the SOE lingers. Only after I switch to game mode does it fully go away.

2) "clouding"
This effect was not nearly as obvious in the store (I checked by switching to a dead input to get a feel for how bad it would be in the store). It's pretty apparent on very dark scenes.

3) Screen glare.
If the thing I'm watching is dark at all the floor lamps (and window) I have put a glare on them that makes that part of the screen unviewable. This is why I was avoiding plasma in the first place. It does seem to be angled a degree of two up which may be part of the problem but the base is what it is and there's no moving it.

I'm thinking this is just not the right tv for me (though if you have suggestions for fixing the issues I'm all ears). I was replacing a Samsung ln46a550 (60hz/1080p/lcd/4.5 yrs old) which has served me well but I felt like getting something bigger. I don't care about 3d or internet apps or motion interpolation tech that's going to make stuff look like a mexican soap made with cgi. I just want a good clean picture that's viewable in light and dark conditions and will be good for gaming, pc input, television, and blu-ray. Should I go back to an LCD and leave this LED non-sense behind or did I just not get that great of a tv?

Thanks,
Jason
post #2 of 13
you bought an entry-level edge-lit LED. unless you get an LED backlit set any led or lcd set that large will exhibit clouding. you can try and alleviate this by pouring some more money into a set with better motion processing and pseudo dimming like a sony 60nx720, or just get a plasma with a good AR filter (samsung 7000/8000, panasonic st/gt/vt)
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Man this stuff moves to fast. Everything I learned 4 years ago when I last bought seems worthless. Your response indicates that I have some things wrong in my head so any help you can give is appreciated.

> you bought an entry-level edge-lit LED. unless you get an LED backlit set any led or lcd set that large will exhibit clouding.

I thought LCD didn't have as much of a clouding problems because the ccfl was behind the lcd colored pixels instead of to the sides so the geometry made a smooth light source much more feasible?

> you can try and alleviate this by pouring some more money into a set with better motion processing and pseudo dimming like a sony 60nx720,

I assume this is the "full array" led I've read about. I looked at a couple at fry's and they seemed to have the same issue but the clouding was in weird chunks, like a quilt of clouding instead. Of course what I was looking at wasn't a Sony. (by the way has Sony become a reasonable option again? They used to be equal quality with a 20-50% premium on price... but let's not start a flame war...)

> or just get a plasma with a good AR filter (samsung 7000/8000, panasonic st/gt/vt)

Alright so I rejected plasma out of hand. Have things changed dramatically? The things about plasmas that scared me still seemed to be issues:

1) glare (seriously this window behind me is pretty big)
2) static image burn-in. Especially regarding video games and pc inputs.
3) Letting them sit in a non-vertical orientation and ruining them.

Thanks so much for your help so far. There seems to be a lot of old information and just plain dis-information floating around it makes your head spin.

Thanks,
Jason
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by lennyManhattan View Post


I thought LCD didn't have as much of a clouding problems because the ccfl was behind the lcd colored pixels instead of to the sides so the geometry made a smooth light source much more feasible?

True, backlight homogeneity has the potential to be better on CCFL-backlit models, but they are not perfect. A couple years ago, I bought a 46" CCFL Toshiba LCD and it still suffered from mild flashlighting in the corners and middle of the screen. Also worth mention: aside from a single model by Sharp (LC-60E79U), no major manufacturer produces CCFL-backlit LCDs in a 60" size anymore. The 60E79 also (to me) only has "decent" picture quality. I have not seen it in a dark room but don't expect uniformity to be perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lennyManhattan View Post


> you can try and alleviate this by pouring some more money into a set with better motion processing and pseudo dimming like a sony 60nx720,

I assume this is the "full array" led I've read about. I looked at a couple at fry's and they seemed to have the same issue but the clouding was in weird chunks, like a quilt of clouding instead. Of course what I was looking at wasn't a Sony. (by the way has Sony become a reasonable option again? They used to be equal quality with a 20-50% premium on price... but let's not start a flame war...)

The Sony NX720 is kind of in-between set, it's not full-array but edge-lit with a software-controlled form of local dimming. It never works as well as a real local dimming set, as there are only 12-16 "zones" on the screen, but it helps. IMO Sony sets have some of the best picture quality currently available and the NX720 sets have the best picture I've ever seen from a local dimming set. They are seem to suffer a bit less from clouding vs. brands like Samsung. Of note, the NX720 series was recently discontinued so stock on these models is thin.

Full-array sets offer real local dimming, with clusters of LEDs behind the panel being dimmed independent of one another. The "chunk" clouding you may be referring to in a full-array model might be "blooming," an artifact found in full-array sets when light from an LED cluster behind a very bright on-screen object spills over into a zone that is switched off, or very dark. Proper set-up and seating distance can attribute to the severity and notice-ability of blooming, so an in-store setup may not be representative of what you'll see when the TV is set up properly. The number of controllable zones in a full-array set can also alleviate the instances of blooming. For instance, I've read here that Sony XBR models have a zone count somewhere in the mid-to-high hundreds, while the Sharp Elite models have around 330 (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

2011 Models with Full Array + Local dimming: Sharp Elite PRO-X5FD (60" and 70"), Sony XBRHX929 (55" and 65"), LG LW9800 (55"), and a Vizio model which I don't know the model of.

2011 Models with Full Array without Local Dimming: Any of the 70" non-Elite Sharps (LE632, LE732, LE733, LE734, LE735) and the 80" LE632.

LG has an upcoming LM9600 model for this year that will feature local dimming, and Sharp will release an LE945 later this year that is also backlit with local dimming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lennyManhattan View Post


> or just get a plasma with a good AR filter (samsung 7000/8000, panasonic st/gt/vt)

Alright so I rejected plasma out of hand. Have things changed dramatically? The things about plasmas that scared me still seemed to be issues:

1) glare (seriously this window behind me is pretty big)
2) static image burn-in. Especially regarding video games and pc inputs.
3) Letting them sit in a non-vertical orientation and ruining them.

High-end plasmas tend to have very good AR filters that hold up well against light, although it should be kept in mind that it's still glass and isnt going to work miracles. A big window directly behind you is an environ in which I'd avoid a plasma. Burn-in is very difficult to get these days but is still a possibility.

Plasmas look best in dark or light controlled environments, but feature perfect uniformity as there is no backlight and look great during dark and mixed-contrast scenes are usually much cheaper than an LED that offering a similar level of performance.

A note on reflectivity: Aside from lower-end Sharps and already-discontinued 55" 2011 LG sets, most midrange and high-end LED sets feature a glossy panel and will reflect light to some degree.
post #5 of 13
With regards to glare and being a degree or two pointing up, put a few half inch thick shims under the back of the stand so that it will make the screen point slightly downward. This will eliminate the glare and actually produce a better viewing angle while seated from top of screen to bottom of screen. I did that with my 70 inch screen that sits on a 27 inch high stand. A proper stand height for tv's greater than 60 inches should be about 18 inches, so that center of screen is more in line with your eyes while seated. The higher the stand, the greater the angle that top of screen should be angled downwards.
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by lennyManhattan View Post

Hey all,

I picked up a Sharp LC-60LE640U (LED/120HZ/no 3d) this weekend at Best Buy. After having it at home for a couple of days I'm just not liking some things about it. Maybe you can help:

1) Soap Opera Effect:
I've taken the default "standard" configuration and turned off motion enhancement and film mode yet the SOE lingers. Only after I switch to game mode does it fully go away.

2) "clouding"
This effect was not nearly as obvious in the store (I checked by switching to a dead input to get a feel for how bad it would be in the store). It's pretty apparent on very dark scenes.

3) Screen glare.
If the thing I'm watching is dark at all the floor lamps (and window) I have put a glare on them that makes that part of the screen unviewable. This is why I was avoiding plasma in the first place. It does seem to be angled a degree of two up which may be part of the problem but the base is what it is and there's no moving it.

I'm thinking this is just not the right tv for me (though if you have suggestions for fixing the issues I'm all ears). I was replacing a Samsung ln46a550 (60hz/1080p/lcd/4.5 yrs old) which has served me well but I felt like getting something bigger. I don't care about 3d or internet apps or motion interpolation tech that's going to make stuff look like a mexican soap made with cgi. I just want a good clean picture that's viewable in light and dark conditions and will be good for gaming, pc input, television, and blu-ray. Should I go back to an LCD and leave this LED non-sense behind or did I just not get that great of a tv?

Thanks,
Jason

Hi Jason:

Would you please post some pictures? Thanks.
post #7 of 13
When I got my 632 it initially had some clouds but in a week or two they greatly diminished and completely dissipated after a month or so. Give it few days and see if they get weaker. Not sure what menu options does 6400 have comparing to 632 but here we mostly use User, Movie, or Game settings for viewing. If your TV has advanced color controls then you can try settings posted here for 633/632 series otherwise try 6300 settings.
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Myoda:

What specifically would you like pictures of?
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon7 View Post

When I got my 632 it initially had some clouds but in a week or two they greatly diminished and completely dissipated after a month or so. Give it few days and see if they get weaker. Not sure what menu options does 6400 have comparing to 632 but here we mostly use User, Movie, or Game settings for viewing. If your TV has advanced color controls then you can try settings posted here for 633/632 series otherwise try 6300 settings.

Thanks Gordon. Just to be clear this is the 640U not the 6400, and from what I could tell it appears to be nearly identical to the 632 (settings I found in the forums here were exactly the same).
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hey all. Figured I'd post an update. After some more tweaking I decided the glare wasn't so much of an issue. I just needed to move my floor lamp and not watch super dark stuff during the day (which really isn't an issue). However I couldn't get rid of the weird motion effects without being in a Game or PC mode. This might have worked but the calibration settings I needed for my TV and for my gaming systems were WAY apart and with what I had I just couldn't get it dialed in in a way that would work for all of my inputs.

So I took the TV back and (after some more research) got a Sony 55NX720 (thanks fatuglyguy... wow that doesn't sound very nice ). So far I love it. The colors were great out of the box and all I needed was to turn off/down the motion settings.

tl;dr
LC-60LE640 - thumbs down
55NX720 - thumbs up
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

you bought an entry-level edge-lit LED. unless you get an LED backlit set any led or lcd set that large will exhibit clouding. you can try and alleviate this by pouring some more money into a set with better motion processing and pseudo dimming like a sony 60nx720, or just get a plasma with a good AR filter (samsung 7000/8000, panasonic st/gt/vt)

I have this exact same set and I have no problems with clouding at all. That or I'm blind! I picked mine up at Walmart and I'm quite happy with it. Their is a post for the 632 model which is very similar here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1376737
Also CNet did a calibration of this set in Movie mode here: http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...message5300479
Personally I'm using game mode setting by DaGamePimp for his 632 and I like them pretty well. But I wouldn't write this set off. I'm extremely happy with mine, maybe he just got a bad set?

Bill
post #12 of 13
I've got a 640u, and I'm having serious lag problems when I play xbox, even in game mode. Any advice?

Other than that, I'm pretty pleased with my set.
post #13 of 13
Was in thebrick store and me and another guy thought of all the sets that the sharp tv looked the best.i thought I checked price and it was about $1800.looked on the Internet and seen The 60 inch version of this tv is $1800.i would say there was a high probability that the tv picture settings were adjusted better than others.
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