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2012 Samsung Pricing and Release Dates - Page 2

post #31 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyjd40 View Post

Wow, robert at ve has the samsung pn64e8000 @$3299- incredible !!! That's $400 less than the vt50 - hmmm that makes the decision much easier !! Slightly better blacks arent worth $400 imho

There's more to picture quality than "slightly better black levels". Until these are both out, who knows whether the Panasonic is "$400 better" or maybe even not better at all. Over a typical 5-year lifespan, $400 is about 20 cents a day, though. I'd pick whichever display I liked more.
post #32 of 96
Damn, people on this forum bash Samsung more than any other brand it seems.

Hope I don't end up agreeing with them eventually but so far I've been really impressed by my 59D7000.
post #33 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Damn, people on this forum bash Samsung more than any other brand it seems.

Hope I don't end up agreeing with them eventually but so far I've been really impressed by my 59D7000.

Samsung sells more TVs than anyone; so it makes sense they take the most hits. (I also don't think their build quality has been very good, which makes the situation that much worse).
post #34 of 96
I agree with rogo. Additionally, Samsung definitely needs to add more folks on the 'QC' front. I wonder what % of their sales volume comes back to them in returns? 12%? 15%?
post #35 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

How about peeling screens and subpar capacitors? Something to think about

They fixed the peeling screens last year.

And a lot of companies have run into the capacitor issue. Look back a few years ago and you'll find MANY motherboards (computer) suffered this same fate... What matters is how it's handled, sometimes issues like this don't show up in Q&A testing.

Is it at this point on my post I'm suppose to remind you of the mess the VT30 was last year? Just about every VT30 is plagued with green/pink tint and IR that gets worse as the TV ages. It's give and take... Picture quality wise the 2011 Samsung was much better... If they fixed everything and the blacks are truly .006 it'll be a killer TV. Hopefully Panasonic is actually back in the saddle again and will actually deliver something with the VT50.
post #36 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Just about every VT30 is plagued with green/pink tint and IR that gets worse as the TV ages.

I just can't find any evidence here at AVS or HDJ to back up either of these claims. In other words, I think these claims are false.

Did some small number of people have these problems? Undoubtedly. Does that constitute "just about every"? Please.
post #37 of 96
Sorry you're blind... Do a search... or even just read the 1st page of either forums.

Seriously guy...

I tried a bunch of panels all of them have it....

Just because not everyone perceives it doesn't mean it's not there. It just means they don't care or dont see it. certainly I hope not every panel has it but most do... I've seen over 20 of them by now... And every one had green tint to some degree.

My point here was panasonic had it's fair share of issues last year. Not getting into the horrid calibration controls and color issues the tv 30 had. Not sure why you always have to make every conversation about you being right. Like I said panasonic had QC issues as well...
post #38 of 96
They acted like they had never heard of this at the last shootout as well.
post #39 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Sorry you're blind... Do a search... or even just read the 1st page of either forums.

Seriously guy...

I tried a bunch of panels all of them have it....

Just because not everyone perceives it doesn't mean it's not there. It just means they don't care or dont see it.

I see, so basically by that "logic" and I use the quotes most highly intentionally, every single single-chip DLP product ever sold is defective because they all have "rainbow effect". Just because you might not see it, I promise "it's there".

I mean that's just nonsense.

This isn't about "me being right", it's about you trying to decide that "it's OK Samsung ships garbage because Panasonic ships garbage".

Here's the things. You're entitled to the opinion that Panasonic ships garbage. What you've done is base it on the product itself, including a number of things most people consider completely irrelevant.

What I've done -- and most people agree with me, whereas relatively few people agree with you -- is establish that Samsung had serious quality-control issues in 2011.

If we want to nitpick what was wrong in the engineering, Samsung's were also inferior in Panasonics in several ways and the reverse is true. But we're talking quality control, where objectively Samsungs were worse.

Let's just keep our facts separate from our opinions. Because, you see, I can be "right" when the matter is one of fact. I can try to persuade people when its a matter of opinion. As soon as you drag out the tired argument that I care about being right, you lose the argument. All I do is keep arguing my points, once you argue about me... well, yeah....
post #40 of 96
I didn't realize this was a samsung vs. panasonic thread.
post #41 of 96
Everything with this guy is like this... Just checkout his threads he posts in...
post #42 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I see, so basically by that "logic" and I use the quotes most highly intentionally, every single single-chip DLP product ever sold is defective because they all have "rainbow effect". Just because you might not see it, I promise "it's there".

I mean that's just nonsense.

Nonsense is comparing something that is specific to ones vision reception to something that is a manufacturing flaw. Not everyone's eyes are sensitive to DLP rainbows. It's actually the way DLP was designed to work. You compare it to a manufacturing flaw Panasonic had which was green/pink blotches that everyone can see once they're shown what to look foor? Some TVs are so bad you'd have to be blind not to see it. Umm... Panasonic didn't design in random green/pink spots into their TV.

Quote:


This isn't about "me being right", it's about you trying to decide that "it's OK Samsung ships garbage because Panasonic ships garbage".

Yes it is, you fight with people ALL the time. Ever ask yourself why? I'm sure your answer is telling yourself it's them and your there to educate them.

Quote:


Here's the things. You're entitled to the opinion that Panasonic ships garbage. What you've done is base it on the product itself, including a number of things most people consider completely irrelevant.

Problem you have is you state just about everything you say as fact. When it's not... you should keep repeating this to yourself until it sinks in.

Quote:


What I've done -- and most people agree with me, whereas relatively few people agree with you -- is establish that Samsung had serious quality-control issues in 2011.

So did Panasonic. Samsung addressed just about every issue that had in 2011. Peeling screen addressed, FBR's addressed (certainly not perfect).

Did Panasonic address their color issues and actually fix it?
Gamma issues?
Poor luminance?
IR problems?
Calibration controls which are wonky?
horrible menu layouts for calibration, you have to use controlcal to keep your sanity trying to calibrate the VT30
green/pink blotches?
IR glasses which barely keep sync at 12 feet.
PWM noise
poor conversion of a RGB 4:4:4 signal

My point here is they both had issues, over all the Samsung was a better TV IMO. The only thing Panasonic really did well for me in 2011 was it's blacks.

Quote:


If we want to nitpick what was wrong in the engineering, Samsung's were also inferior in Panasonics in several ways and the reverse is true. But we're talking quality control, where objectively Samsungs were worse.

I simply stated Panasonic had just as many issues if not more than Samsung did for 2011. Both quality and manufacturing related.

Quote:


Let's just keep our facts separate from our opinions. Because, you see, I can be "right" when the matter is one of fact. I can try to persuade people when its a matter of opinion. As soon as you drag out the tired argument that I care about being right, you lose the argument. All I do is keep arguing my points, once you argue about me... well, yeah....

Your version of arguing is continuing to talk repeating yourself until the other person doesn't care to respond to you anymore....

This forum has WAY more Panasonic fans than Samsung. Hell I'm one of them, I like Panasonic's stuff but 2011 wasn't a good year. They should have had the video basics down by now.

Don't bother replying, I won't respond. I have a strange feeling your ego won't put up with that though and you'll respond anyway trying to accomplish something. Nothing to save here, those who like whatever it is they like for whatever reasons will continue to... with or without you... Cheers buddy...
post #43 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Nonsense is comparing something that is specific to ones vision reception to something that is a manufacturing flaw. Not everyone's eyes are sensitive to DLP rainbows. It's actually the way DLP was designed to work. You compare it to a manufacturing flaw Panasonic had which was green/pink blotches that everyone can see once they're shown what to look foor? Some TVs are so bad you'd have to be blind not to see it. Umm... Panasonic didn't design in random green/pink spots into their TV.

You insist everyone sees this spots, most people never see them. I'm going with most people.
Quote:


Yes it is, you fight with people ALL the time. Ever ask yourself why? I'm sure your answer is telling yourself it's them and your there to educate them.

I do try to educate. Too many of you are just ignorant and don't want to learn.
Quote:


Problem you have is you state just about everything you say as fact. When it's not... you should keep repeating this to yourself until it sinks in.

Actually, I'm better than nearly anyone here at distinguishing fact from opinion. What some of you don't like is that I possess more facts than you.
Quote:


So did Panasonic. Samsung addressed just about every issue that had in 2011. Peeling screen addressed, FBR's addressed (certainly not perfect).

Panasonic did not have factory QC issues like Sasmung. They didn't have a significant number of units come out of the box with internal cracks (and then blame end users). They didn't have a gigantic number of units with misapplied AR filters. Both mfrs. have FBr issues (Panasonic was far more proactive in fixing them, but whatever). Fluctuating brightness is a design flaw, not a QC issue.
Quote:


Did Panasonic address their color issues and actually fix it?
Gamma issues?
Poor luminance?
IR problems?
Calibration controls which are wonky?
horrible menu layouts for calibration, you have to use controlcal to keep your sanity trying to calibrate the VT30
green/pink blotches?
IR glasses which barely keep sync at 12 feet.
PWM noise
poor conversion of a RGB 4:4:4 signal

By my reckoning, not one of those is a QC issue, except this blotch problem, which has yet to be defined by anyone. Maybe that's a QC issue, maybe it's not something that typical people even see.

Calibrated VT30s were still pretty much considered the gold standard of picture quality in spite of all these "flaws" you listed. How do you explain that?.
Quote:


My point here is they both had issues, over all the Samsung was a better TV IMO.

In your opinion.
Quote:


The only thing Panasonic really did well for me in 2011 was it's blacks.

I simply stated Panasonic had just as many issues if not more than Samsung did for 2011. Both quality and manufacturing related.

And you're mistaken. Which is not a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact. You think I'm the one repeating things over and over, but I promise to stop as soon as you do.

It's obvious that Samsung has no regard for QC across the board; the D series LCDs were also poorly built. I think it's fair game to raise that point again and again; especially when someone trolls Panasonic, without any real evidence that Panasonic has QC/build-quality issues.
Quote:



Your version of arguing is continuing to talk repeating yourself until the other person doesn't care to respond to you anymore....

Your version appears to be what you just wrote. Or to keep insisting you are speaking facts when I'm speaking opinion when in reality the reverse is true. I keep repeating it because most people tend to read the last page and so long as the last page contains thing I believe are false, wrong or misleading, I'm going to respond. If you don't like it, I recommend the ignore list.
Quote:


This forum has WAY more Panasonic fans than Samsung.

I'm curious if you've ever considered why that might be the case.
Quote:


Don't bother replying, I won't respond.

There you go again.
Quote:


I have a strange feeling your ego won't put up with that though and you'll respond anyway trying to accomplish something. Nothing to save here, those who like whatever it is they like for whatever reasons will continue to... with or without you... Cheers buddy...

Those who want content-free trolling will be sure to put you on a favorites list, too. I mean really, all you did here was spend a great deal of time making baseless accusations about Panasonics and me. And I'm sure you're going, "This is supposed to be a Samsung thread." Well, physician, heal thy freaking self.

As for the 2012 Samsungs, I look forward to seeing them in stores very very soon now. Since one of my possible purchases for 2012 seems to be off the list, I might just have to reconsider and add the E8000 back onto my shopping list.
post #44 of 96
Also, as a global platform go read the complaints about panasonic outside of NA. Those people call Panasonic a disaster.

And let's see, 2010 had the raising MLL. 2009 had the SERIOUS early raising MLL.

I switched to Samsung after Panasonic screwed over so many people for so many years promising fixes when all they did was bandaid the TV for 4 years in a row.

On the other hand, Samsung is fixing out of warranty TVs with the failed capacitors. They fix every peeling screen, and probably will for years to come.

Samsung is even replacing customer damaged TVs just to shut them up.

I'm very happy with what I've read about Samsung's support over the last 3 years. Not so much Panasonic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Nonsense is comparing something that is specific to ones vision reception to something that is a manufacturing flaw. Not everyone's eyes are sensitive to DLP rainbows. It's actually the way DLP was designed to work. You compare it to a manufacturing flaw Panasonic had which was green/pink blotches that everyone can see once they're shown what to look foor? Some TVs are so bad you'd have to be blind not to see it. Umm... Panasonic didn't design in random green/pink spots into their TV.



Yes it is, you fight with people ALL the time. Ever ask yourself why? I'm sure your answer is telling yourself it's them and your there to educate them.



Problem you have is you state just about everything you say as fact. When it's not... you should keep repeating this to yourself until it sinks in.



So did Panasonic. Samsung addressed just about every issue that had in 2011. Peeling screen addressed, FBR's addressed (certainly not perfect).

Did Panasonic address their color issues and actually fix it?
Gamma issues?
Poor luminance?
IR problems?
Calibration controls which are wonky?
horrible menu layouts for calibration, you have to use controlcal to keep your sanity trying to calibrate the VT30
green/pink blotches?
IR glasses which barely keep sync at 12 feet.
PWM noise
poor conversion of a RGB 4:4:4 signal

My point here is they both had issues, over all the Samsung was a better TV IMO. The only thing Panasonic really did well for me in 2011 was it's blacks.


I simply stated Panasonic had just as many issues if not more than Samsung did for 2011. Both quality and manufacturing related.



Your version of arguing is continuing to talk repeating yourself until the other person doesn't care to respond to you anymore....

This forum has WAY more Panasonic fans than Samsung. Hell I'm one of them, I like Panasonic's stuff but 2011 wasn't a good year. They should have had the video basics down by now.

Don't bother replying, I won't respond. I have a strange feeling your ego won't put up with that though and you'll respond anyway trying to accomplish something. Nothing to save here, those who like whatever it is they like for whatever reasons will continue to... with or without you... Cheers buddy...
post #45 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyjd40 View Post

Wow, robert at ve has the samsung pn64e8000 @$3299- incredible !!! That's $400 less than the vt50 - hmmm that makes the decision much easier !! Slightly better blacks arent worth $400 imho

god bless

Improved blacks,Reference color, Black bezel and better features beats slightly better blacks on the VT50. waiting for amazon to list the E8000 for preorder
post #46 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgon74 View Post

Improved blacks,Reference color, Black bezel and better features beats slightly better blacks on the VT50. waiting for amazon to list the E8000 for preorder

I'm holding out for a PNE8000 too, but I'll be surprised if it beats the VT50 on blacks and shadow detail. All CES2012 reports that the VT50 can't be beat in that category. Also, the VT50 is supposed to be brighter. Looking forward to the reviews.

Anyone know if the PNE8000 will have Samsung's upgrade module slot that the UNES8000 line will have?
post #47 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgon74 View Post

Improved blacks,Reference color, Black bezel and better features beats slightly better blacks on the VT50. waiting for amazon to list the E8000 for preorder

Speaking as if you know how the VT50 performs...
post #48 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgon74 View Post

Improved blacks,Reference color, Black bezel and better features beats slightly better blacks on the VT50. waiting for amazon to list the E8000 for preorder

Is the bezel black? I thought it was a slightly darker version of last year's grey. Regardless, it's not shiny like Panasonic, i.e. definitely a plus. All the other things you list are either (a) improved on this year's Samsung vs. last year's or (b) like reference color, were already there (and we'll assume they are remaining this year).

That kind of argument you just made is totally fair. (Just don't tell anyone or else I might lose my Panasonic Fanboy Card.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Speaking as if you know how the VT50 performs...

Well, he doesn't, but there are things about the Samsung that seem to be known and it's going to ship sooner. I can see choosing it now as a valid choice even if many of us would rather wait and compare.
post #49 of 96
PN51E550D is now available in stores at Best Buy along with other 2012 Exxx series models.

Going to check it out tomorrow and possibly purchase the above model if all goes well considering this is my first plasma purchase.
post #50 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyjd40 View Post

the samsung pn64e8000 @$3299- incredible !!! That's $400 less than the vt50 - hmmm that makes the decision much easier !! Slightly better blacks arent worth $400 imho

god bless

The problem is, you are quoting a Street price on the Samsung PN64E8000 compared to the MSRP price of the Panasonic TC-P65VT50. In the end the VT50 will Street for the same price or less the then the Samsung policy breaking PN64E8000 price listed.

**Samsung will have a new unilateral price policy that has been put in place.** Dealers do not make the manufacturers rules, but if one want to sell the manufacturers products they will need to follow the rules sooner or later. The UPP price on the PN64E8000 is $3599.

We know pricing will be close on these two models, we will have to test and see which one is better........In the end both of these units are "hot" and I do not think there will be a wrong answer.
post #51 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Also, as a global platform go read the complaints about panasonic outside of NA. Those people call Panasonic a disaster.

And let's see, 2010 had the raising MLL. 2009 had the SERIOUS early raising MLL.

I switched to Samsung after Panasonic screwed over so many people for so many years promising fixes when all they did was bandaid the TV for 4 years in a row.

On the other hand, Samsung is fixing out of warranty TVs with the failed capacitors. They fix every peeling screen, and probably will for years to come.

Samsung is even replacing customer damaged TVs just to shut them up.

I'm very happy with what I've read about Samsung's support over the last 3 years. Not so much Panasonic.

Ya, I totally agree. I owned both the VT30 and the D8000 last year. Calibrated both (wasted WAY too many hours on the VT30 huge mess) in the end the PQ was better minus ANSI contrast on the D8000. I just couldn't live with the FBR which they didn't have a fix at the time so I ended up with nothing.

He pretty much ignored all of the faults I posted about the VT30 just saying they weren't QC. And he's right but that's why I also said they had BOTH quality and manufacturing defects. It doesn't change the fact that they still all existed and it passed Panasonic QC. I even saw D-nice mention how bad Panasonic was with the VT30 calling it the equivalent of "Windows Vista". And he was right... it just wasn't ready for prime-time.

I'm interested to see what everyone brings to the table for 2012. The senseless Samsung bashing is kinda over the top. I had tried 5 panels with them last year trying to get one without FBR not knowing it was a software issue at the time. In the end they wrote me a check and took back the TV...

Just put him on ignore. I mean he takes quotes where I specifically say "IMO" and he responds "in your opinion". No kidding you don't say?. Then I said "for me" which is a personal thing, and he said I'm wrong about that too as if he knows me better than me... That's just ignorance/arrogance. I think he must have gotten his MBA he's bragging about at the University of Phoenix. No one who's *really* smart ever brags about things like that... if you do it just proves your not.

Good luck with you 2012 purchases, I'm going to bail out of this thread and stay in lurker mode
post #52 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by bparisi View Post

PN51E550D is now available in stores at Best Buy along with other 2012 Exxx series models.

Going to check it out tomorrow and possibly purchase the above model if all goes well considering this is my first plasma purchase.

Please let me know. I just checked and the e530 was in stock a good distance from me and the e550 not at all, but if you can find it in store I might take a look myself.
post #53 of 96
PN64E8000 available on amazon right now! Shipped from: Video and audio center
post #54 of 96
post #55 of 96
Quote:

Strange that it's not showing up in search yet...
post #56 of 96
Yeah i noticed that.
post #57 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian s View Post

PN64E8000 available on amazon right now! Shipped from: Video and audio center

Just searched for it,didnt see it,are you sure about this?
post #58 of 96
post #59 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian s View Post

Positive. 64 Available at pauls tv - B&h - http://www.paulstv.com/Plasma-Televi...-PN64E8000.asp http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...tialSearch=yes

WOW,ok,thanks for the link!
post #60 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Also, as a global platform go read the complaints about panasonic outside of NA. Those people call Panasonic a disaster.
And let's see, 2010 had the raising MLL. 2009 had the SERIOUS early raising MLL.
I switched to Samsung after Panasonic screwed over so many people for so many years promising fixes when all they did was bandaid the TV for 4 years in a row.
On the other hand, Samsung is fixing out of warranty TVs with the failed capacitors. They fix every peeling screen, and probably will for years to come.
Samsung is even replacing customer damaged TVs just to shut them up.
I'm very happy with what I've read about Samsung's support over the last 3 years. Not so much Panasonic.

Where does Samsung sit at the moment on the problem of Spontaneously Cracking Screens?

Am guessing that this happens to a Tiny Percentage of overall panels, but yet it seems to be most often associated with Samsung - AND, is something that has NOT been covered under warranty.

OTOH: We've had 4 60" 2011 Pan plasmas in house (technically 5, but one arrived with a cracked screen): ALL of them have had Green Blobs AND Pink Tint. So has both of our No. 1 Son's 2011 Pan plasmas. Build dates ranging from Jul to Dec. Between us, we've checked OVER 20 panels at various local stores - including having store reps involved, and even unboxing sets (CostCo can be great during Off Hours!): ALL of them have had Either Green and/or Pink TINTS, and many had actual Green Blobs.

To be fair, on some of the panels you have to Go Looking for the problem(s), and many users would never notice them in normal viewing (or would simply shrug their shoulders & assume The Source was at fault) - but it stretches the imagination to think that only a small percentage of the 2011 panels exhibit Unwanted Green and/or Pink (AKA: Magenta).

It has been a while since my last Statistics course, but - from memory - if given even a Very Large Parts Population, with a presumed 50% Fault rate, the odds are of drawing 20 Faulty Units in a row are Extremely Low.

But, perhaps that really is Just Our Luck - and if that is the case, you can see why we have not changed over to Samsung and risked the Cracking Panel Glitch!

In all, we have 3 Pan plasmas now - 4 years old, 2 years old, and about 6 weeks old (and half-way through return period): Would LOVE to see something in the next 6 weeks that suggests 2012 Samsung (or LG, for that matter!) would perform better - reliably - at similar cost to the ST30...

Anyone giving odds of that happening?
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