Bang for Buck Large Room Bass

looks like your selling something here man --- both sellers are the same at the auction links ---

if so -- that is not allowed... if not --- meh --

For PA use - yeah it'd probably be fine, though the specs are made up ---- 20hz FR on that sub setup = no way.

from the video - - "[subwoofer surround has] accordion edge so it won't rot away" -- huh?

He is selling them for $400 min bid price for two new 18" subs and cabs, and includes free freight truck shipping (which costs anywhere from $150 to $250 depending on distance. That makes the price of these subs to him only a $150 or a couple hundred at most or he wouldn't be able to sell them and make a profit after ebay fees of about 15%. What kind of subwoofer quality do you expect for two 18"s that cost $150-$200?

I can't imagine these things being very impressive at all.

^

word.

Might be decent for a music only setup but no way would I run that for HT. Those probably roll off around 40hz or so....

1) podium amp are a no name and on top of that have crappy statse, get a behringer inuke

2) what do you mean by auto EQ?? Auto EQ does nothing but boost the ENTIRE sub range, it doesnt apply a low shelf to your sub, and it definitely shouldnt when the sub is ported, because that means youll blow your sub when it bottoms out and tears the spider 5 minutes into a scene because its playing 10db hot below tuning freq.

A ported sub cant magically gain a bunch of output below tuning.

Oh Boy.

Tuning is defined by box vol and port vol, your receiver has nothing to do with it.

no... they don't.

Timothy

I have a bit of experience -- and even some with 18" PA gear - having owned the Yamaha CW218V in the last year.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1175641

I've hosted 2 subwoofer meets in the last year (linked in my signature), and attended a third (huskeromaha's in Omaha). I've owned (in the last year) a pair of Infinity HPS-1000 subs, a pair of THX II Ultra rated Jamo D7subs, a pair of PB13 Ultra subs, a pa sub - the Yamaha CW218V with two 18" drivers, and now own a pair of JTR Captivator subs. I've heard just about all of the best of the best commercial and internet direct offerings since 2011 - some more than thrice.

Strictly between 2011 and Feb 2012 I’ve heard –

Dual DIY Dual Cinema F-20 (lilmike designed)
BIC America Formula F12
BIC V1220 pair
Klipsch RW-12D pair
DIY Rythmik 15"
Elemental Designs A7s-450
Motor City Custom Audio Dual MFW-15 Turbos pair
DIY MFW-15 dual opposed sealed in quad boxes (8 drivers)
DIY Custom Ottoman with four 15" drivers.
Chase Home Theater SS 18.2
Chase Home Theater SS 18.1 pair
Chase Home Theater 18.1VS pair
JTR Speakers Captivator Pro pair
JTR Speakers Captivator pair
JTR Speakers Captivator Sealed pair
JTR Speakers Orbit Shifter pair
JTR Speakers Growler
Seaton Submersive HP quintuple'd!?! :P (yes I heard five in the same room)
Danley Sound Labs DTS-10
SVS PB12+
SVS PB13 Ultra pair
HSU VTF-15H pair
Epike Empire (heard four in the same room)
Yamaha CW218V
Jamo D7sub pair
Jenson MS500
Infinity HPS-1000 pair
and even an Onkyo HTIB sub.

Previous to 2011, I’ve heard many different vendors and models at friends houses and home theatres, clubs, concerts, churches, etc. I’ve heard expensive velodynes to cheap JBL subs. I’ve heard multiple DIY type projects. I’ve heard (and loved) gads of different car audio equipment, up to some of the best types of subs like JL w7's and competition Orion drivers --because I and many of my friends were into car audio. Inexperienced, I am not. Though my very intentional exploration of all things subwoofer related started more heavily in 2011.


The Yamaha PA sub I owned (which would decimate that piece of junk you posted) wouldn't and didn't compete well with most of the actual home theater subs I've heard for home theater use. I too initially had high hopes they would -- they don't. Dollar for dollar the PA subs are fun and they were an eye opener for me the first time I listened to them (you can easily see my enthusiasm in the PA thread I linked above), but the more quality subs I've heard over the last year or so, the more my initial enthusiasm for the PA Sub idea has been curbed. Massive SPL above 35-40hz might be great for most any pre-21st century music, but it can't compete with a good subwoofer that has strong authority down to 15-20hz for modern music (electronica/dubstep) and movies (modern movies have increasingly more ultra low LFE). EQ won't do it, that driver isn't meant to output those low frequencies. A traditional PA sub will do nothing but make bad noises in trying. Give it a shot and see for yourself. I did.

You mustve gotten deaf or lost some hearing from all those subs!

Can you provide a link to this 25Hz limit.

How do you know? You are making up specs and hazarding guesses. Slow down and read.

IF the two trustworthy 18" Eminence drivers in the Yamaha CW218V 18" sub powered by American Audio V3000 amp bridged (http://audio.manualsonline.com/manua...?idRes=1474287) couldn't compete with a single PB12+ in the deep notes category during the 2011 sub meet --- then why do you think your linked inferior PA subs in singles could do better when auditioned against a single high excursion 12" driver like the PB12+?

Voting List from 2011 Meet with Yamaha Vs SVS PB12+

In the deep notes category the Yamaha scored 14 and the SVS scored 20 --- total vote scores combined from 5 voters using a 1-5 voting scale.

NOW --- when you crank up the volume and overurn the PB12+ the Yamaha started fairing better for the movies section because we didn't use a standardized volume at that meet for the movies section, like we did for the music section. But, the Yamaha didn't get higher scores because of it's amazing extension and ability to produce huge levels of ultra low frequencies - it got higher scores because it was one of the loudest subs of the day --- which is aslo fun - but fun for a different reason! If you flatten out the EQ on the Yamaha, or any PA, then you sacrifice all that headroom, and still don't get the comfortable extension of the true home theater subs ----- so you loose out on both ends. (it's like driving a square peg into a round hole -- sure you can make it fit -- kinda...

Not to mention, too much EQ and it starts sounding like rubbish. I tried EQing some of these speakers heavily to make them have a flat FR using the Inuke DSP 3000 and the whole SQ aspect suffered for it ---across the spectrum.


Drop the attitude and learn. Better yet - buy those subs and try to do what you propose with them. Then audition one of the highly recommended subs around here that is made to do what you are trying to accomplish and you'll realize it just doesn't work as well.

I would certainly trust your reply below. You are a king when it comes to listening to subs, and knowing what that sound means.

Archaea is right guys. Without seeing ground plane measurements of Podium stuff, I'm going to follow the trend of pro audio subwoofer drivers and assume they are designed for high SPL mid bass, not ULF extension. I wouldn't use those drivers for HT, Timothy91.

Oh brother...

This comment alone deserves a double head slap, but the one above drives my point home well enough. There are a lot of movies with content below 20Hz which has been intentionally added by the studios for effect. Search this very forum to find the threads that list which movies, which exact portions of these movies and even measurements to go with them.

By the way, you're the one losing the argument here, and I did not insult you or anyone else. My post was the same thing as this:


Ahh, but they will, and they do. An enthusiast is defined as this:

a : one who is ardently attached to a cause, object, or pursuit
b : one who tends to become ardently absorbed in an interest

You really don't think the HT enthusiasts want to experience all of the content in the ultra low frequencies for movies? Now if you would have said the average Joe you would have had a case, but you didn't so you're just flat out incorrect here.

After everyone telling you you're wrong (which you are), you're still not getting it. That's your prerogative, but I doubt it'd be worth wasting any more of our time proving what's already been proven.

This is so AVS. I love it.

These PA subs will -

a) output 20hz at high SPL
b) not output 20hz at high SPL
c) don't need to output 20hz because that is in the range of dangerous nazi infrasonics


If a) everything we know about drivers, enclosures, and PA gear in general is wrong
If b) OP is having a laugh by creating this thread
If c) Auditor has 2 accounts, this is the more aggressive personality

Actually you don't, because I never answered it. The content in live performances (lets say music - a live amplified concert) generally doesn't use ULF content. HT/movies do, which has already been proven by the measurements I mentioned above (that you refuse to look at).

Tell you what, contact the production studios and share you claims with them. If you're right, have them prove who they are and post here explaining all of the sub ULF content in every movie it exists in is accidental. Then we might take you seriously...but probably not.


Wow - you just don't get it. Did you go and look at the measurements that prove this content is there? Nope! Hmm...shall I believe measurements or someone's incorrect opinion? That's a tough one...I'll have to think it over for a while.


So you're saying that the content below 20Hz was accidentally added in every instance for every movie? And you're saying it was never intended to be used as well. Wow...We're done here. You're simply a person who cannot be reasoned with, even when the facts are staring you straight in the face.


Hehe, good post.

Y
You keep saying that the movie industry can't provide deeper bass than this supposed 25Hz limit and then reference movie theaters were budget constraints would keep them from investing in what it would take to pressurize that area with sub 20Hz thats not the same thing as its not in the actual movie when for years there have been charts showing there is material below 20Hz and you can bet it was not done by accident it spurs sales.