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DCI. Here I come... Ready or Not! - Page 2

post #31 of 96
3/23/12 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisx510 View Post

This looks amazing!

For the home cinema projectors we find are selves upgrading every few years to the next best thing. How long should a DCI model last before one would feel the need to upgrade to the next best thing?

Considering 4K is relatively new to commercial theaters, and far less available in the consumer world, I would say a projector like this could be had for over a decade. It can also do 3D which is almost as new as 4K (in the digital form anyways). You also have to realize that these projectors are highly modular. New boards/processors and other add on features can easily be added on or modded to update it's capabilities. These projectors also accept various lamps to accommodate a change in venue/screen size as well as a whole slew of optional lenses to accommodate a change in venue/screen size.

Considering the cost of these projectors, upgradability should be an included feature. The consumer world doesn't allow this because of smaller profit per sale so they don't usually add an upgrade option because they want you re-buy their product every couple of years.
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post #32 of 96
3/23/12 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post


Considering 4K is relatively new to commercial theaters, and far less available in the consumer world, I would say a projector like this could be had for over a decade. It can also do 3D which is almost as new as 4K (in the digital form anyways). You also have to realize that these projectors are highly modular. New boards/processors and other add on features can easily be added on or modded to update it's capabilities. These projectors also accept various lamps to accommodate a change in venue/screen size as well as a whole slew of optional lenses to accommodate a change in venue/screen size.

Considering the cost of these projectors, upgradability should be an included feature. The consumer world doesn't allow this because of smaller profit per sale so they don't usually add an upgrade option because they want you re-buy their product every couple of years.

I didn't know all that. How cool! Thanks for the explanation.
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post #33 of 96
3/23/12 at 3:53pm
Well, it would be a bit pricey to do this for home use, but DoReMi's Integrated Media Block actually has an HDMI input on it that will accept any HDCP compliant video source. The bonus is that it will also take the audio feed from that same source, and output it through the IMB's 16 channel AES (via 2 RJ45 connectors). It's a really nice method, as you can do full 7.1 audio in the same cable as your video feed, and either pick up a CP750 or JSD-100 to feed your sound with. Or a DAC, which is significantly cheaper.
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post #34 of 96
3/23/12 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isotopian View Post

Well, it would be a bit pricey to do this for home use, but DoReMi's Integrated Media Block actually has an HDMI input on it that will accept any HDCP compliant video source. The bonus is that it will also take the audio feed from that same source, and output it through the IMB's 16 channel AES (via 2 RJ45 connectors). It's a really nice method, as you can do full 7.1 audio in the same cable as your video feed, and either pick up a CP750 or JSD-100 to feed your sound with. Or a DAC, which is significantly cheaper.

I know that product. The reason it can take in an HDCP compliant source (that is allowed to be HDCP licensed) is because they encrypt the HDSDI output just as in DCI. Thus the box cannot be used to in-the-clear HDMI to HDSDI with HDCP. However it would work in the case here.

But in my case, if I want to attach a WFM to the output for monitoring, it won't work as the HDSDI is now encrypted.
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post #35 of 96
3/23/12 at 5:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

I know that product. The reason it can take in an HDCP compliant source (that is allowed to be HDCP licensed) is because they encrypt the HDSDI output just as in DCI. Thus the box cannot be used to in-the-clear HDMI to HDSDI with HDCP. However it would work in the case here.

But in my case, if I want to attach a WFM to the output for monitoring, it won't work as the HDSDI is now encrypted.

The Barco's DVI connections are HDCP compliant. They are identical to a standard HDMI jack.

They are not HDMI 1.4. The HDMI jack on the IMB board is HDMI 1.4 3D compliant but there are to many negatives, and reason why not to use that. Primarily that you can not use the HDMI jack on the IMB unless the server is connected to the PCIe jack. Which is probably about 20K. Even then, i think there are many sync and handshake issues.

The only issue is with HDMI 3D sources. Then a device like the Doremi 3Dimension converter will convert the HDMI frame packed signal into dual stream HD-SDI. That is not HDCP compliant and would require an HDCP workaround.

I really expect to hopefully keep this projector for the next 8 or 10 years. I figure it will be at least 2 years before 4K blu-ray content is available, and then 4K will be around for a while. And with other exciting upgrades coming, like the new input boards, which will deal with both 4K and HFR 3D, and the future laser light module, there should be no reason why one would need to upgrade any sooner.
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post #36 of 96
3/23/12 at 5:17pm
Thread Starter 
Started calibration!


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post #37 of 96
3/23/12 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

The Barco's DVI connections are HDCP compliant. They are identical to a standard HDMI jack.

They are not HDMI 1.4. The HDMI jack on the IMB board is HDMI 1.4 3D compliant but there are to many negatives, and reason why not to use that. Primarily that you can not use the HDMI jack on the IMB unless the server is connected to the PCIe jack. Which is probably about 20K. Even then, i think there are many sync and handshake issues.

The only issue is with HDMI 3D sources. Then a device like the Doremi 3Dimension converter will convert the HDMI frame packed signal into dual stream HD-SDI. That is not HDCP compliant and would require an HDCP workaround.

I really expect to hopefully keep this projector for the next 8 or 10 years. I figure it will be at least 2 years before 4K blu-ray content is available, and then 4K will be around for a while. And with other exciting upgrades coming, like the new input boards, which will deal with both 4K and HFR 3D, and the future laser light module, there should be no reason why one would need to upgrade any sooner.

What are the average costs of upgrade?

DCI projectors are still in the six figure range correct?

With that projector your theater is screaming for a wall to wall screen.
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post #38 of 96
3/23/12 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
Need some help from either Wolfgang or Peter or anyone else who may know!!!

I am having trouble getting the 3D RealD CE4 glasses to sync.

When I pull up a 3D test pattern on the Barco they sync fine, but when I go back to a 3D source using the doremi 3dimesion box I lose sync.

The realD emitter is still showing a sync signal, but they won't sync. Hopefully one of you know the answer!
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post #39 of 96
3/23/12 at 7:48pm
I thought I saw this come up in Wolfgang's thread and Peter told him he has to launch 2d 1st then 3d. Ill see if I can find it.
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post #40 of 96
3/23/12 at 7:50pm
Nope, I was wrong, they really don't post what they did.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=152
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post #41 of 96
3/27/12 at 9:28pm
Really awesome to see you upgraded to a DCI projector. Love watching your theater progress!
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post #42 of 96
3/30/12 at 8:28pm
Any updates?
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post #43 of 96
4/3/12 at 10:52am
Thread Starter 
Things are coming together. It was a rocky start, but I think all the bugs have just about been worked out.

Installation of the aperture was a little bit of an ordeal. It installs on the end of the intregrator rod, which is pretty deep inside the projector. As big as these machines are, they still must be made by little people. Getting hands into certain places to remove screws is just about impossible.

The initial setup for 2D went well. The 3D was a problem. Displaying a 3D image went smoothly, which i was surprised about, considering how sensitive HDMI can be. There are quit a few items in the chain, but they all played perfectly together. The problem was getting the REALD CE4 glasses to sync. For whatever reason, I can not get the REALD EXXR emitter to work with the Barco. I don't know if its a different sync output or what. I got a Volfoni 3D setup from Alan and it worked immediately.

After calibration and with the aperture installed I get 35FL with the lamp fully dimmed and 75FL with lamp at 100%. That is with the 3KW lamp.

The very next day after the projector was calibrated it wouldn't come on. I was getting a Red "OS STAT" light. The Cinema board had to be replaced. I got it replaced on friday and all was well. Then on saturday I went to turn the projector on and had a red "ICP STAT" light. The ICP board had failed. Needless to say I was not happy. But in all the furstration I did learn how incredible Barco service is. The software for the projector is incredible. On saturday I used the software to create a diagnostics package which I then emailed to the Barco NOC center on saturday. Within 30 mins they had determined the ICP board had failed. They then had one shipped on saturday via an American Arlines flight. It was delivered to me on Sunday at 1:30pm via a special courier.

I could not be an happier with the level of service from Barco! It is top notch. I was able to install the board and update the software of the board to match the projector software. Then I loaded a Clone file which was created when my projector was setup. The clone file reloads all of the settings. Within 30 minutes of receiving the board I was back up an running.

The picture is stunning. Every single aspect of the projector is better than an consumer level projector on the market, except for black level performance. The black level performance with the aperture is not quite as good as my Titan Reference 3D was, but its not to far off. I could not be any happier with the decision to get a DCI machine. Now I just hope I don't have any more board failures.

I just wish I could figure out why the REALD EXXR emitter and CE4 glasses won't sync. I really prefer those glasses and I love the 2D mode option. If I have a bunch of people over to watch a 3D movie, but someone doesn't like the 3D, they can just put their pair of glasses in 2D mode. Then both eyes either sync with the left or right image only.



The setup right now is as follows.

All sources to Lumagen XE
Output 1 of Lumagen to Anthem AVM50v for audio only
Output 2 of lumagen to HDMI splitter.
One output of HDMI splitter to DVI connector on projector for 2D sources.
The other output of HDMI splitter to (SPECIAL HDMI BOX)
Out of (Special HDMI BOX) to Doremi Dimension-3D box
Out of Doremi thru DUAL HD-SDI Cables to HD-SDI connectors on projector for 3D.

All of the switching works great, and since everything routes thru the Lumagen, any source can be sent directly to the projector for 2D or thru the Doremi box for 3D.
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post #44 of 96
4/3/12 at 11:25am
Thanks for the update Chris. Any chance you could take a picture of a projected 2D image? I just want to get an idea of your black levels with program material.
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post #45 of 96
4/3/12 at 11:41am
Thread Starter 
Here are some pictures I took during the initial setup.

Ill take some more tonight.

Test Patterns- Sharpness is just incredible. And convergence is perfect over the entire screen.



DirecTV 2D with minimum lamp power @ 35FL



3D blu-ray with full lamp power @ 75FL
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post #46 of 96
4/3/12 at 12:34pm
Wow, 75 ft/lmbs for 3D. Is that brighter than Peter's demo at Cedia? I remember that being pretty bright as well.
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post #47 of 96
4/3/12 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Wow, 75 ft/lmbs for 3D. Is that brighter than Peter's demo at Cedia? I remember that being pretty bright as well.

75FL is the 2D brightness with lamp at full power. So if you figure an 80% reduction, then I have 15FL in 3D. That is about what he was showing at Cedia. I think 16FL in 3D.
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post #48 of 96
4/3/12 at 4:16pm
Quote:


(SPECIAL HDMI BOX)

We all love DRM
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post #49 of 96
4/3/12 at 7:40pm
Wow 35FL! Does it make you squint your eyes during bright scenes? My JVC makes me squint on super bright scenes and its no where near 35FL.
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post #50 of 96
4/4/12 at 12:15am
Lookin good man!
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post #51 of 96
4/6/12 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisx510 View Post

Wow 35FL! Does it make you squint your eyes during bright scenes? My JVC makes me squint on super bright scenes and its no where near 35FL.

Actually, there have been a few times, where the screen would be entirely white, I would be squinting a little bit. But I really have gotten use to the 35fl range, and don't think I would want it much dimmer.

The only time, I could see wanting to back down to say around 20fl would be for darker movies, like Harry Potter, where the blacks would be blacker. But most of the content I have watched I find the 35fl perfect.

And I love having the ability to go up to 75fl. Especially for entertaining people during sporting events, when its nice to have all the lights on.
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post #52 of 96
4/8/12 at 8:46pm
Thread Starter 
Watched this movie last night and it was great!

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post #53 of 96
4/8/12 at 9:00pm
Thread Starter 
Finally got all of my additional sources connected and I am just amazed how well this projector upscales to 4K.

The text on my Mac Mini has never looked any sharper or clearer.

Xbox and PS3 also look amazing.

I was afraid these sources might not look as good or as sharp as they did with 1:1 pixel mapping on a 1080P display, but I was amazed how great they looked.

They look better than they ever have!!!

I have ordered a new video card for my Windows computer, so I will be able to display 4K. Im sure it will be nothing short of breathtaking.


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post #54 of 96
4/9/12 at 12:56am
Looks great! So what's the next upgrade in your theater going to be?
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post #55 of 96
4/9/12 at 2:24am
chris

when i see the pictures inside this thread i like to note that the
4k dlps are very sensitive about vibration.

when the stand is not very very stable you can see very nice at a still picture at the
screen that the picture shackes.
i know now 6 people that have a 4k barco and 4 of them see or have this problem include me.

i use very stable stands but even they have to be modify to reduce the shacking.

good to see that your dream comes true very soon
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post #56 of 96
4/9/12 at 2:27am
Damn its looking good!
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post #57 of 96
4/9/12 at 7:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisx510 View Post

Looks great! So what's the next upgrade in your theater going to be?

Im not sure.. lol But probably a new speaker system. I had been considering JBL Synthesis but have had a bunch of people recommend Procella and Genelec.
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post #58 of 96
4/9/12 at 7:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

chris

when i see the pictures inside this thread i like to note that the
4k dlps are very sensitive about vibration.

when the stand is not very very stable you can see very nice at a still picture at the
screen that the picture shackes.
i know now 6 people that have a 4k barco and 4 of them see or have this problem include me.

i use very stable stands but even they have to be modify to reduce the shacking.

good to see that your dream comes true very soon

I have noticed this too. My stand is bolted down to the wall, but when the doors are closed fairly hard, the image does shake.

I was considering some vibration pads I have seen for use with telescopes. My brother is into high-end tracking telescopes, and he has some pads he uses to stop the vibrations in the ground from transferring to the telescope.

I wonder if they would do the trick.
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post #59 of 96
4/9/12 at 9:34am
let me know if it helps.

even if the stand is 100% perfekt a small vibration comes from all the fans and the
cooling system inside.
but you can reduce it to a level that is ok.

btw i have one very large telescope as well.
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post #60 of 96
4/9/12 at 12:00pm
Thread Starter 
The hallway cabinet doors were installed today, and the box to close off the front of the projector.

I dont really like the way the bump out in the theater looks. I wanted to make it plain and just painted the wall color to make it disappear as much as possible. Now Im thinking it might look better dressed up with crown moulding and painted the trim color. Im just not sure what to do. I really wish it would of fit in the projection room!






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