New iPad resolution gripe - Page 10

Jobs really turned me off in how he handled the antenna fiasco on the IPhone. He lost a lot of credibility in my eyes when he had the chutzpah to tell people they 'weren't holding the phone right'. I know the old "Apple way or the highway", but wow, this totally redefined that saying.

After insisting there was no problem and then later offering people free cases to mitigate the issue, this was a PR nightmare for Apple. This is not what I would call the work of a 'perfectionist'. I know some will deny even today that the issue existed or that similar issues don't exist on other phones. I've had many phones and the issue did exist on the Iphone and was worse than what I've seen on any other phone. This was not anyone's imagination and apparently CR felt the same way.

Apple makes great products, but they are not always the best products within that product niche IMO.

Interestingly on the video editing front, Apple used to be the 'only' way to go. That has changed dramatically over the years. Today there are many superb editing programs that are not available for Mac and only reside on Windows. Many of these are used by broadcasters. These are very very deep programs, extremely stable and operate in real time unlike some aspects of Final Cut.

Anyone frequenting either HD camera or editing software forums, will find what seems like a disproportionate number of people having issues with editing on Macs. Some if it is due to video capture issues, others to codec issues, but all is not as peachy as some might think in the Mac video editing world.

We have certainly strayed from the original topic of this thread and I'm as responsible as anyone. So I apologize for that and will bow out of this thread and return it to the sponsor.

Yep, I did appear a dumb$hit with "use" popping in there. Sorry, I was typing at work, changed a word, got pulled away, and forgot to go back and delete the other before posting. Oops.

As for the latter "point", jesus, have someone read this aloud to you and tell me what you think:

"Perhaps just perhaps there are those people who don't rely in browser rendering when trying to maximize image fidelity. That way it does not matter what size screen we view it on (think about it it may be hard I have faith in you - hint Chrono's pics are PNG which is a bitmap file type - hmmmm).

"In" for "on" is understandable in the day of iphone/ipad/pda spell correction, but "it" and "it' back to back followed by what appears to be an omission of at least one other word to complete an idea?

Crikey.

And yes, the ipad 2 and 3 still look fantastically similar at a typical user distance and neither appear anything close to some of the "screen shots" that have been vomited upon this thread.

James

I am new to AVS Forum. However, one reason I did sign up is because of how pleasantly surprised I have been with my Apple TV and the way AirPlay works with my iPad. But I do agree with some of your observations and as someone who has spent over 15 years in the high tech market here is my perspective. Feel free to disagree of course

1. 'Best' is a relative term in that what is best for one class of users may not be for another. However, if you change it to 'most powerful' then it's true that Apple does not make the most powerful products in their category. They have never made the most powerful products in their class ever since I can recall.

2. As far as the antenna fiasco (if you can call it such, given that the iphone 4 and 4S are by far the best ever selling products in the industry AND have the highest customer satisfaction). As far as Apple goes they extended the do questions asked return policy to 30 days. More importantly, no product is perfect for all users - so if the iphone didn't work for you you could return it. Tech sites like AnandTech did s detailed study of the iPhone 4 antenna and basically said that the antenna design worked better in some situations than other phones and worse in other situations. So it was a trade off. Another data point to consider is that the iPhone 4 had the lowest customer return rate and the highest customer satisfaction rate. That tells me the phone was NOT defective and met it's market objectives.

3. There is always the 'stupid customer' point of view. One that you seem to be espousing. The one that says, Apple customers tend to buy Apple products because they just aren't as smart as they could be - perhaps as smart as you are. While, that line of thinking may have merit (the whole iSheep thing) the reality is that a LOT of people we consider smart would then have to be considered stupid by that definition. If you spend any time in the Googleplex in Mountain View or in the Stanford Campus at Palo Alto you'll see Macs everywhere. In fact, even Larry Page, Brin and Zuckerberg have openly said they use and prefer Macs. Attend any conference, whether it is of lawyers, doctors, tech or even police and you'll see iPads being used everywhere.

4. Apple products may not be the best for your needs. They may not be the most powerful. But they are certainly the best products for a lot of other people out there. I am not sure if you read tech blog sites like the Verge. Or when tech writers describe the products they carry themselves...you'll see a lot of Apple. There are a lot of highly satisfied Apple customers.

I see their products aren't up to your standards, but I love using my iPad and Apple TV. Like they say - to each his own

You're accusing someone of drinking Apple Kool Aid, while it's obvious you're drinking the Apple Sour Aid yourself. So very bitter. There were people claiming that Blu Ray didn't look any better than a DVD and the proof was...'I can't tell the difference so it must not be so..."

'huge difference' is subjective.

@jaffrey yes Apple was never really focused on having the best hardware. It's about usability. In fact Apple is primarily a software company. Jobs said it many times. Making hardware is incidental to the objective of making great software that works.

@Jaffrey & Ken the atenna implementation was certainly not perfected but it was a new concept that has its birth pangs. They also had their schedule to rush and I'm ok with deficiencies in new tech. Innovations cannot be perfect but make do with what was available.

But I agree with Ken in the sense that Jobs knew there was a problem IMHO. If you view the iPhone 4 launch presentation, he sort of sheepishly out of the blue introduced the bumper that has no relevance to the phone unless he knew ahead. In the end of antennagate saga he did give out free bumpers for a limited time. This to me was a pretty uncool episode.

Moving back to topic, if Apple says the iPad is pretty much retina indifferent at that viewing distance, I pretty much take it. There are talks of android tablets moving to >300ppi to score against the iPad in a numbers game.

That's not correct. Apple is primarily a hardware company that focuses on making great software in order to sell it, unlike other companies that build the hardware but have poor software integration. Apple doesn't want to be reliant on anyone else, as much as they can avoid it. (one of the reasons they're looking to ditch Google Maps in iOS 6 for example)


If there are any >300 PPI Android tablets, I have to imagine that they will be Pentile, which essentially means that they are lower resolution than the iPad display. (Pentile only has about 2/3 of the subpixels for any given "resolution")

These days, it's looking like we should be moving towards subpixels-per-inch as a measurement of display resolution, rather than pixels-per-inch.



The pro video market is relatively small. With the discontinuation of the XServe line, the lack of a Mac Pro update in almost two years, and Final Cut X essentially being "iMovie Pro" it is clear that with their newfound popularity, Apple as a company is far more focused on the mass market these days.

Why cater to a 10,000 strong pro market selling a $1000 box of complex-to-develop software requiring expensive support, when you can sell hundreds of thousands if not millions of people a cheaper product that is far simpler to produce and support? It's a market they're happy to lose to Adobe.

Suffice to say that I don't think you want to argue with Steve Jobs

The way Jobs keeps popping up in conversations, people from another planet may think he's still alive

little jimmie......

You are incapable of realizing I respond on the go. That was a response while driving in traffic. But you are missing the trees because of the forest. This is not about English its about AVS and you are making something out of nothing.

Now back to what the point was. The png are bitmaps and a true representation of his screen which I can (using the right screen res and pic size) get it look extremely close to the original screen that was captured. The fact that you can't says more about you than the English lessons that you conveniently dismiss as not important when you were distracted but are not acceptable from someone on a phone in traffic. Brilliant!

^ No, it's about communicating ideas and thought with a modicum of intelligibility. If you cannot do so- whether driving a car or flying an airplane- please spare us.

You have a marked track record of this garbage...mine was an aberration. Massive distinction, there. Get a clue.

Last, the notion that a marked few here cannot understand/acknowledge that those "images" are NOT representative of what users SEE at a typical user DISTANCE is what's really tragic here. It simply cannot be put more plainly (and factually) than that.

Again, those depictions are absolutely WORTHLESS within a dialogue that's centered around the differences between the ipad 2 and 3 screen during NORMAL use. I can guarantee you that if you handed 50 people a 2 and 3, allowed them to view them, and then let them digest those images (and the laughable "substantiation" that go with them) at least 45 would understand and agree with the aforementioned.

And that's saying quite a bit when you consider "modern" society and the shocking number of knuckle-dragging neanderthals that dwell within it.

But for the love of god- again- please spare everyone of the painful drivel above.

Just dreadful.

James

little jimmie...

Opps you did it again. Is it intelligent to start a sentence with "Last" and the next one with "Again"?

If you knew how to properly deal with bitmap images then they would be of value. That is the only fact here. PERIOD.

^ ummmmm, that would of course be predicated upon the context.

And in this case?

Yep, stating "last" as a response to a final idea/thought and then- TWO sentences later- starting with "again" to reiterate a posit for someone who's seemingly too thick to comprehend it is perfectly fine, thanks.

The fact that you feel any of this has anything to do with how any human handles "bitmap images" speaks volumes.

And then there's that bizarre, ok, idiotic, unnecessary capitalization again. Where the h3ll did you attend grammar school?

Don't answer that.

James

I'll bet any amount I can find samples of you capitalizing something in the same manner. Be a man take the bet...

It has everything to do with how a bitmap is displayed / sized/ rendered.

This post was probably the most telling of all of your nonsense...

How does fooling people into thinking an ipad TWO is a THREE simply by notching the brightness a step and doing absolutely NOTHING with regards to the RESOLUTION? Not EQUALS mind you, but a TWO is/was a THREE.

Think about it. You cannot make this $hit up.

You're right, it proves absolutely nothing.

Besides the absurdly obvious of course.

James

Ok, to pursue this any further would be excruciating (for all, I'm certain), so I'll exit and leave behind a thought that I'm sure can assist others in this life:

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

nuff said.

Enjoy those ipads.

James

Fooling a handful does not prove the 3 is not sharper (marginally, minimally, clearly, significantly, whatever...).

Oh and Please capitalize Hilarious and Go you look moronic.

And the continued use of the word $hit - where did you go to grammar school?

And the clincher - threat? Please proofread your work. You appear to not follow your own advice!

You berate me on unnecessary capitalization and then you do it 7 times????

Ok, to pursue this any further would be excruciating (for all, I'm certain), so I'll exit and leave behind a thought that I'm sure can assist others in this life:

"Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

nuff said.

Enjoy those ipads.

James

Adobe is not a 'professional' editing product and you won't find any broadcasters using their software seriously. The fact is that Apple was trying to pitch the professional market and just didn't succeed. No point in making excuses. Other companies had no problems developing successfully '$1,000 box of complex-to-develop-software requiring extensive support'.

Sometimes, believe it or not, Apple does fail.

I think many of the Apple fan-boys do think he's still alive!

I think that is most definitely the point that is missed by many. Just like with the old argument of 720p vs 1080p, it's all about viewing distance. As experts told people back when we were transitioning from 720p to 1080p, it depends on screen size and seating distance. For some seating positions the improvement going to 1080p would be totally lost. In this case, it depends on how far the user is holding the IPad from his eyes that would determine how visible the difference in resolution is.

For some it might be quite noticeable and for many others it might border on invisible. One thing I noticed about the 2 that never seems to be discussed, is that the font rendering is darker than the 3 and therefore tends to show more contrast against a white background.

In the world of displays, it's often reported that contrast is more important than resolution. That's very true IMO. Thus, the darker fonts probably make up for the lesser resolution...at least to a degree and again, very dependent on viewing distance.

But your point is very valid regardless of what others might think. Anyone that thinks viewing distance is a non-issue doesn't understand the factors involved in perceived resolution.

Of course contrast, viewing distance and angle are critical to overall PQ.

That was not the point. Having successfully written and installed imaging systems for large companies regulated by state statues for content production of contracts where a lossless format was deemed necessary and many times that naturally led to PNG format and then to read what has been written about it is whats problematic. So instead of learning how to work with these formats people are blaming the source incorrectly which is funny as with most threads here we always turn to the source as the biggest problem but with this its the opposite. It is not the source it is how it is being viewed.

Or stated another way png is a lossless format.

My mistake, I wasn't aware that despite being used on projects like Avatar, Premiere is not a "professional" tool. (though Final Cut Pro has more exposure as it's only in the last version or two that Adobe has stepped up their game)

Go tally the broadcasters and see how many are using Adobe. And we were talking about Apple and their lack of significant inroads into the professional arena.

Weren't you the guy who brought Steve Jobs into this thread? What exactly have 'you' done that's so great? Just curious.

I see. So nobody is allowed to comment on Jobs or Apple. Have another sip of that Kool Aid...very tasty!

Wow. 18K plus posts and this is what you have to show!

Just curious. Do you sell Kool Aid? You really seem to want people to drink it pretty badly! What's up with that?

When I see people attack others because they have the slightest degree of criticism for Apple, I know they've been sipping that juice and won't accept anything but bowing at the altar of Apple.

When you demand to know what 'others have done in their life' before they criticize Jobs, it tells me a lot about your tolerance of other opinions. Have a nice night.

We certaihly agree there! I will never forget on the iPad 2 ios 4.?.? my wife had just surpassed the 500 contacts mark. She simply went in and add a few more and without even a message they all vanished into thin air. Could not get anyone to even consider it was a known bug and not addressed. Well I found hundreds of others who had it happen to them and what was the Apple fanboy answer. You should never trust such important information only in one place it should be backed up etc etc. I have no problem with that advice but they miss the point. It is a bug and they were wrong but somehow its your fault. Priceless.