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Why do most go for an LED when Plasmas have better PQ? - Page 5

post #121 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by emp99 View Post


They look better in the typical store environment, with the bright lights.

Plus they're more idiot proof, no dealer wants to confuse Mr. & Mrs. stupid with complicated sentences or guidelines.

Good point besides imagine the sales person telling them if they buy plasma
they MUST calibrate it via the user menu to get the best possible picture.
And he's not ever going to mention the whole 'burn in' period thing and possible IR.
Yep, way more easy to sell LCD. I don't blame them one bit.
post #122 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Chances are if you ask 10 people if they know about plasma screen tech, only a third may know about it.

I'll bet more than 1/3 have heard of plasma. And they think pasmas are all crappy discount TVs that burn in.

I went to several Best Buys trying to look at a Panasonic ST50, which isn't exactly their top-of-the-line. But even though Best Buy supposedly carries the ST50, the only ones they actually have on display are the absolute cheapest model, the U50, and sometimes the UT50. I've never seen the GT50 or VT50 in a store, and the only place I've caught the ST50 was in a Sears. And it didn't really look like anything special under the store lighting.

It seems like most people who own decent plasma got it because of word of mouth and they had to order it.
post #123 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by tostada View Post

I'll bet more than 1/3 have heard of plasma. And they think pasmas are all crappy discount TVs that burn in.
I went to several Best Buys trying to look at a Panasonic ST50, which isn't exactly their top-of-the-line. But even though Best Buy supposedly carries the ST50, the only ones they actually have on display are the absolute cheapest model, the U50, and sometimes the UT50. I've never seen the GT50 or VT50 in a store, and the only place I've caught the ST50 was in a Sears. And it didn't really look like anything special under the store lighting.
It seems like most people who own decent plasma got it because of word of mouth and they had to order it.

Best Buy only carries the 55" ST50 in-store, other sizes can be specially-ordered. Only stores with a Magnolia inside will have the GT/VT50s on display, in addition to the samsung E7/E8000s (select stores may have Runco plasmas on display as well).
post #124 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphna12d View Post

Plasma's are heavy, energy hogs and possibly lose some of their great black levels over time. In certain darker environments, Plasma's can be ideal but not everyone has an ideal environment for a Plasma.

i dont think the OP intends to drag his set all around the house, so hes ok to get a plasma. and food for thought, i never owned a plasma that "lost" its blacks over time, or whatever the hell that means.
post #125 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by whityfrd View Post

i dont think the OP intends to drag his set all around the house, so hes ok to get a plasma. and food for thought, i never owned a plasma that "lost" its blacks over time, or whatever the hell that means.
Judging by the sheer number of threads found by searching 'rising black' you are certainly one of the few lucky ones...http://www.avsforum.com/search.php?search=rising+black&containingforum%5B%5D=167&output=all&action=disp
post #126 of 144
Complainers will always be louder than those who are content, and the problem most certainly affected several year models from Panasonic (only). They purportedly got a handle on it this year.
post #127 of 144
I think that there is a fundamental disconnect between the people posting in this thread and the majority. I assume that most if not all of you buy mid to high tiered tvs? Most people buy bargain to midpriced tvs. They want the tv to look bright, sharp and clear (that is also the wording you will find in most walmart and amazon reviews). Pretty much all hdtvs do that. Both lcds and plasmas sell well. Plasmas may not dominate the marketplace but they have a very well established niche. They're not in immediate danger of going extinct.

When oleds become the thing, quality high end lcds and plasmas will be threatened but the bargain line entries won't be for years.
post #128 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Both lcds and plasmas sell well. Plasmas may not dominate the marketplace but they have a very well established niche. They're not in immediate danger of going extinct.

I'm not so sure that Plasmas are selling all that well: http://mashable.com/2012/05/11/panasonic-plasma-tv/
post #129 of 144
No plasma <= 37".
post #130 of 144
Well I am currently waiting on a my Panasonic Viera tc-p55gt50 to arrive from Amazon. I am replacing a 50" rear projection (sony kds-r50xbr1) which had the bulb go out I think 3rd time. It still has a great picture, and I think I will replace the bulb and find room for it elsewhere. The reason I went Plasma over Led/lcd is 90% motion blur/soap screen effect. My older(2005 model) rear projection does not do it either. I will not put up with motion blur ans I watch a lot of football and movies as well. The "fix" which creates the unatural effect called soap screen effect is very unacceptable to me as well. I enjoy a film like appearance as well. I am concerned about IR but that is my trade off babying the set for the first 6 months I hope and ending up with a good set.
post #131 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Good point besides imagine the sales person telling them if they buy plasma
they MUST calibrate it via the user menu to get the best possible picture.

And he's not ever going to mention the whole 'burn in' period thing and possible IR.
Yep, way more easy to sell LCD. I don't blame them one bit.

Not true, a lot of late model plasmas have extensive calibration controls in the User Menu (Samsung, LG, some Panasonics). Sony LCDs and LED LCDs are somewhat lacking in calibration controls (color management is non-existant).

Besides, the majority of J6P consumers just plug them in and watch in default mode.
post #132 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottiz View Post

"Why do most go for an LED when Plasmas have better PQ?"


This is a very ignorant statement. I can easily argue that plasmas don't have better PQ. While plasmas do look better with dark content, they perform poorly with bright content. There are many reasons to not get a plasma: power consumption, heat, buzzing, burn-in, flickering, fuzzyness, ABL and list goes on.


Also I would say plasmas are pretty bad choice for gaming. Main reason is burn-in, flickering and ABL. All of these will gradually make you hate plasma for games more and more, since majority of games tend to be much brighter than movies. My eyes get tired extremely fast if I use plasma for gaming, and ABL just makes bright games look horrible.

I take it your an LCD guy.

Just a hunch.
post #133 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

OLED smokes both technologies without even trying. The only weakness OLED will have is price.

OLED

Coming REAL SOON(tm).
post #134 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottiz View Post


Clearly you know nothing about me. I have a 51" plasma, so tell me how does that make me a biased LCD fan? If not being blind to and admitting numerous drawbacks of Plasma technology makes me a biased LCD fan then so be it, better that than living in denial.

I love guys that slaughter a particular tech then claim they own a product with said tech.

I guess it's to make one look like not as much of a fanboi.
post #135 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanclayton View Post

Burn-in is the ultimate killer: Video game HUDS, computer taskbar/dock, still pictures, etc. Only thing that it exceeds is watching movies...

And NOBODY around here does that!
post #136 of 144
I think some uninformed know nothing about Plasma. Everyone has heard of LCD.

So, they come into a store and say they want an LCD TV.

Some get hooked on the uber bright screens that are set to "torch" mode.

You would be surprised how many people like that kind of screen.
post #137 of 144
Quote:
gr8 thanx guys for all your replies. will stick with an LED
Quote:
Because that's what the vendors are pushing, LED.
Quote:
Why do most go for an LED when Plasmas have better PQ?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because Samsung started this misleading marketing ploy is no reason it should be continued here.

Call it what it is: a LCD TV with a LED backlight. OLED's are another technology. Huge difference.
Quote:
LEDs are still sexier.
Double negative. rolleyes.gif
Edited by videobruce - 8/9/12 at 4:17am
post #138 of 144
The average person knows very little about televisions. They won't notice the difference between SD and HD unless they're side by side, and often thinks "LED TVs" are the latest and greatest.

Go into an electronics shop and their plasmas are mostly 768p models with huge coarse pixels that give a gruesome screen door effect at the 1 metre viewing distance. Many look faded or glared under intense fluorescent lighting. Really big panels can have a level of flicker some people will find intolerable - with TVs becoming larger all the time this undermines plasma technology.

The reps who work in electronics chains don't want to risk having someone coming back mad because they've got burn-in after a 16 hour MMORPG marathon.

And to most people an LCD does have "better" picture quality. We may think "better" means more realistic but most people want sharper and over-saturated and actually like the soap opera effect because it looks advanced and modern.
post #139 of 144
Not only are there no small plasmas, but trying to find one with 43 inch size or less is a challenge. There's a handful. And none of those are 1080p (not that I care too much, as for my purposes 720p should be fine, but it would be nice to have the choice between 720p and 1080p).
post #140 of 144
Quote:
and often thinks "LED TVs" are the latest and greatest.
Hence enters the CEA with their misleading advertising and terms to sell something that has a slight 'twist' from everything else.
post #141 of 144
I dunno. I think it's just bad marketing or something. Or maybe a total lack of Panasonic doing anything to inform sales people.

Because what are the real advantages of LED LCD? I thought it was thinner TVs. But plasmas are absurdly thin now, too. Thin enough that all the new Panasonics do the same silly thing where they stick the HDMI connectors sideways so the TV can be 1" thick.

I mean, maybe the average consumer is a total moron, but there's not really a huge difference. I think the black levels on plasmas are still considerably better. But modern TVs are all thin and all have good viewing angles and all have decent color. It certainly seems like LCDs look more cool and bluish and unnatural and blown-out, but I'm sure if you set them up right they'd be pretty decent.

I mean, modern plasmas look badass in a dark room and modern LCDs look badass in an absurdly bright room, but they're all OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homerging View Post

The reps who work in electronics chains don't want to risk having someone coming back mad because they've got burn-in after a 16 hour MMORPG marathon.

Does anybody have any actual data on burn-in on any plasmas made in the past five years? I haven't seen any evidence of it. Is it realistically an issue at all for anybody except maybe a sports bar that plans on leaving the ESPN logo burning in 16 hours a day for years?

I got a 55" ST50 two weeks ago and I didn't do any kind of break-in. I turned it on and put in DNice's settings, and it's had about 20 hours of movies with black bars and 20 hours of Diablo III with a HUD and about 3 hours of the Olympic logo, and I don't get any kind of hint of burn-in or even minor image retention.
post #142 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by tostada View Post

I dunno. I think it's just bad marketing or something. Or maybe a total lack of Panasonic doing anything to inform sales people.
Because what are the real advantages of LED LCD? I thought it was thinner TVs. But plasmas are absurdly thin now, too. Thin enough that all the new Panasonics do the same silly thing where they stick the HDMI connectors sideways so the TV can be 1" thick.
I mean, maybe the average consumer is a total moron, but there's not really a huge difference. I think the black levels on plasmas are still considerably better. But modern TVs are all thin and all have good viewing angles and all have decent color. It certainly seems like LCDs look more cool and bluish and unnatural and blown-out, but I'm sure if you set them up right they'd be pretty decent.
I mean, modern plasmas look badass in a dark room and modern LCDs look badass in an absurdly bright room, but they're all OK.
Does anybody have any actual data on burn-in on any plasmas made in the past five years? I haven't seen any evidence of it. Is it realistically an issue at all for anybody except maybe a sports bar that plans on leaving the ESPN logo burning in 16 hours a day for years?
I got a 55" ST50 two weeks ago and I didn't do any kind of break-in. I turned it on and put in DNice's settings, and it's had about 20 hours of movies with black bars and 20 hours of Diablo III with a HUD and about 3 hours of the Olympic logo, and I don't get any kind of hint of burn-in or even minor image retention.

Exactly along with some get sales incentives for certain brands along with whats in stock for a particular size.
The burn in/iIR has been beat to death so bad of late you would think this has turned into a PS3 versus XBOX forum where rabid fanboys try to cut into one another for any sign of weakness perceived but not often proved.
post #143 of 144
A thread like this pops up every other week on this forum...
The OP has already made the generalization that plasmas have better picture quality in the title.

As a consumer you really must compare Model VS Model, not display technology VS display technology.


What really constitutes "better" picture quality though?

TV sets today are over-driven right out of the box.... and most all of them look terrible.


There are LED-LCDs that have better color accuracy, grayscale linearity and the correct white point just by switching a picture mode, and then there are plasmas that get all that wrong, with an unadjustable color gamut, colored grayscale, and uniformity issues.

You can reverse all of that and say the same thing backwards: there are plasmas that get all that right, and LCDs that butcher color, etc...

I have seen some terrible plasmas, and some terrible LCDs...




The fact of the matter is both technologies have good eggs, and bad eggs.

I have had countless Panasonic Plasma sets (in the past), and I have a few LCDs and an LED driven LCD set today. I think they both have ups and downs. I could not stand spacial dithering honestly, and needed more light output in the viewing area, so I made the switch.

I went from a Panasonic TCP50S1 to a Samsung UN55D6000, and if anyone knows the history and performance of each set, then they will also know that the Panasonic was a terrible performer in comparison to the D6000 (a set that got color and grayscale correct out of the box).

So it all really depends!


My advice: A consumer should buy the set that performs the best regardless of the technology that drives it. I personally like Home Theater's reviews as a reference. Once you find the best performer for the price, then you know whether you are buying an LED driven LCD or a Plasma. smile.gif

Don't be eager to generalize that plasmas always outperform LCD sets however, as many plasmas have got it wrong. There are plasmas out there that cannot achieve linear grayscale's, have bad color gamuts that cannot be adjusted, and simply cannot produce any light output before going wonky.

You will find inexperienced complainers on this forum also. You have LED-LCD guys crying over flashlighting and uniformity, but they are running their set at 80ft/l, and cannot figure out why they are experiencing light bleed. Then you will have people crying on the plasma end that they cannot get a linear grayscale on their plasma set, but have the contrast overdriven when they attempt calibration, etc, etc, etc. The complaints go on and on.

I still recommend plasmas in most lower light situations, but there are pieces of sh*t out there, from the flagship brands. You really must compare model to model, not display technology to display technology.
Edited by redwolf4k - 8/22/12 at 10:11am
post #144 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Best Buy only carries the 55" ST50 in-store, other sizes can be specially-ordered. Only stores with a Magnolia inside will have the GT/VT50s on display, in addition to the samsung E7/E8000s (select stores may have Runco plasmas on display as well).

Found that out today and wondering why? I want the 50" but it's only available by special order direct from Panasonic while the 55" is in the store ready for pickup. I just don't trust UPS delivering my tv in one or two pieces to my apartment which I won't be home all day and night till the following morning?
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