or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Elemental Designs A7-450
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Elemental Designs A7-450 - Page 6

post #151 of 185
Thread Starter 
Boom!!!
post #152 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Exactly! I have had so many talks with Alex, none of which were ended by him. Those guys are the type that you could talk to all day about your setup or new gear.

+3. The first time I called, I spoke to Alex and he was fantastic answered all of my questions and just talked away. Next time I called I spoke too someone else who was a jerk he didn't talk much just answered yeah or no. No help at all acted like he was just wanted to end the phone call. I got on there website and did that live chat thing and it was Alex online. I told him I had a bad person and knew he was better. He asked for my cell and called me in 5 mins. He kept talking and helping even past there closing times. My phone dropped the call and he called me back. Prolly the best CS I have ever worked with. Althought Alex seems like a great person too work with. I see a lot of like 2+ months waiting for the subs and unreliable shipping times and info. So I'm not sure...
post #153 of 185
Thread Starter 
My subs were custom dimensions so mine took a little longer.
post #154 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

My subs were custom dimensions so mine took a little longer.

How long total?
post #155 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

How long total?

Maybe 2 months. problem was I ordered them which I knew that I would be put at the end of the line considering they had other orders in front of me. I had them built and right before they were going into paint, I changed my mind and had to have them shrunk down widthwise. They had to be rebuilt, painted, and qced.

Good thing was, that my cabinets went to one of the other members.
post #156 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Maybe 2 months. problem was I ordered them which I knew that I would be put at the end of the line considering they had other orders in front of me. I had them built and right before they were going into paint, I changed my mind and had to have them shrunk down widthwise. They had to be rebuilt, painted, and qced.

Good thing was, that my cabinets went to one of the other members.

Thanks. I wonder if you can buy just the driver itself?
post #157 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Thanks. I wonder if you can buy just the driver itself?

not sure. Give Alex a call and ask him. I know they custom build the drivers in house. This was the other reason mine took a little longer. custom stuff takes time.
post #158 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

not sure. Give Alex a call and ask him. I know they custom build the drivers in house. This was the other reason mine took a little longer. custom stuff takes time.

Just chatted with online sales over at eD. Price quoted was $450 plus shipping.

That seems like a great price for such an impressive looking driver.

I just wonder why more DIY'ers don't seem to use this driver in their own builds. There's always driver shortages from other companies. And if not shortages, just problems in general.

I don't think I can recall anyone using this driver in a build.
post #159 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Just chatted with online sales over at eD. Price quoted was $450 plus shipping.

That seems like a great price for such an impressive looking driver.

I just wonder why more DIY'ers don't seem to use this driver in their own builds. There's always driver shortages from other companies. And if not shortages, just problems in general.

I don't think I can recall anyone using this driver in a build.

Not sure either.

Big driver, Promise!
post #160 of 185
Yes, it is surprisingly HUGE! And can take a real beating too!
post #161 of 185
Thread Starter 
Well, I did some tests yesterday with placement of the subs. I did the sub crawl and found some pretty weird results in my room. I found that between my seating and the front of the room the bass was more pronounced. I also found that behind my seating about 5-6 feet and on the right and left walls the bass was the best. This is a very odd spot for my subs considering they have always been up front. Aesthetically they look best up front but I have a null or void about 8-12 feet in front of them. The bass is just not the best it can be where they were at. Obviously my room is doing some crazy things with the lower frequencies.

My main concern is that even though they sound the best in the back, they are so large, that they might not "look" the best there. Again I'm open to the best sound of course but still want the best look. I plan on taking some pics of the room to see what you guys think.
post #162 of 185
Can they fit if you keep them where they are but turn them 90 degrees so the driver faces the side walls? Myself and other local members have all experienced a 50hz null when both subs are facing forward and the null goes away when they are turned.
post #163 of 185
Thread Starter 
That's my next tests which I plan running tomorrow. I'm at the fire station today.

Alex mentioned the same thing you did about turning them. Carp, im not sure if it's a 50 hz null or a complete void. I played a 40 hz test tone and crawled around the room and found they were best halfway between my seating and the mains on the sidewalls.
post #164 of 185
Thread Starter 
Placed the subs back up front today facing the wall.
post #165 of 185
I always enjoy stopping by here and checking out the exploits of this sub



What you're experiencing really isn't that unusual. I would recommend one sub up near the front, with the driver either facing the wall, or sideways so the driver acoustic output is near the front wall boundary. I'd place that sub approximately 1/4 to 1/3 of the width. Now I'd place the second sub similarly, however in the rear of the HT, and opposite diagonally if possible.

Your subs, arrayed in this manner, should significantly smooth modally induced peaks and nulls in the room. By spreading LF sources on each side of a hypothetical mid-point of the room, room modes in that direction are addressed. In your case, your subs spread across both the front to back axis, as well as the left to right axis, this should yield significant response smoothing at the LP. Now certainly every room is different, and boundary (walls, floor, ceiling etc.)impedances can prevent optimal results from the method I suggested, but it should offer some solid results and perhaps a platform from which you can continue further experiments.

If you don't have any measuring gear/software, this is much more difficult. Something like OmniMic from Parts-Express would simplify your optimization tasks immensely. It's very easy to use and you can be up and measuring in minutes. However, with the Galaxy meter, you need a freq chart and plot some points and make some graphs. I believe those charts are in various places on-line. Rives used to have one,...maybe Thomas at The Cult has one.


Best of luck
post #166 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

I always enjoy stopping by here and checking out the exploits of this sub



What you're experiencing really isn't that unusual. I would recommend one sub up near the front, with the driver either facing the wall, or sideways so the driver acoustic output is near the front wall boundary. I'd place that sub approximately 1/4 to 1/3 of the width. Now I'd place the second sub similarly, however in the rear of the HT, and opposite diagonally if possible.

Your subs, arrayed in this manner, should significantly smooth modally induced peaks and nulls in the room. By spreading LF sources on each side of a hypothetical mid-point of the room, room modes in that direction are addressed. In your case, your subs spread across both the front to back axis, as well as the left to right axis, this should yield significant response smoothing at the LP. Now certainly every room is different, and boundary (walls, floor, ceiling etc.)impedances can prevent optimal results from the method I suggested, but it should offer some solid results and perhaps a platform from which you can continue further experiments.

If you don't have any measuring gear/software, this is much more difficult. Something like OmniMic from Parts-Express would simplify your optimization tasks immensely. It's very easy to use and you can be up and measuring in minutes. However, with the Galaxy meter, you need a freq chart and plot some points and make some graphs. I believe those charts are in various places on-line. Rives used to have one,...maybe Thomas at The Cult has one.


Best of luck

thank you so much. Me and carp have been talking about the Omnimic. I hate to buy it for 300 bucks and use it maybe a hand full of times.

I plan on doing some more moving of the subs, but as of now. Back of the theater behind the seating facing toward the seating on each side is nice. Facing the walls up front is also very nice. I plan on moving them inside the mains to try that. I will also try what you just suggested.

thanks.
post #167 of 185
Thread Starter 
With them facing the wall like carp and Alex suggested, my ears are telling me that it is a lot better.
post #168 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

With them facing the wall like carp and Alex suggested, my ears are telling me that it is a lot better.

Makes sense,...as that would provide less SBIR cancellation due to path length.
post #169 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Me and carp have been talking about the Omnimic. I hate to buy it for 300 bucks and use it maybe a hand full of times.

I understand, however you not just using it a handful of times. Every time you sit and enjoy a nice smoothed response you're benefiting from those measurements. There's a multitude of very beneficial measurements included in the design. Also, the designer, Bill Waslo, is an AVS'er and he's been releasing upgraded software occasionally that you merely download and the OmniMic feature set and measurement capability has been expanded quite a bit since it's initial release.

No offense, please, but until you really measure the LF in your room a various positions, you're really flying blind. You've got a nice potent system, and you could really benefit from it. Plus, many find that it's actually quite fun and educational. And you'd likely be surprised how often you use it.
post #170 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post


I understand, however you not just using it a handful of times. Every time you sit and enjoy a nice smoothed response you're benefiting from those measurements. There's a multitude of very beneficial measurements included in the design. Also, the designer, Bill Waslo, is an AVS'er and he's been releasing upgraded software occasionally that you merely download and the OmniMic feature set and measurement capability has been expanded quite a bit since it's initial release.

No offense, please, but until you really measure the LF in your room a various positions, you're really flying blind. You've got a nice potent system, and you could really benefit from it. Plus, many find that it's actually quite fun and educational. And you'd likely be surprised how often you use it.

+1

It's one of the best pieces of equipment in my rig and has given me the eyes to make huge improvements! It has saved me hours upon hours of playing test tones and graphing....That alone is worth the investment!

With such nice equipment, you'll really be able to get the most out of them with the OM...
post #171 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post


I understand, however you not just using it a handful of times. Every time you sit and enjoy a nice smoothed response you're benefiting from those measurements. There's a multitude of very beneficial measurements included in the design. Also, the designer, Bill Waslo, is an AVS'er and he's been releasing upgraded software occasionally that you merely download and the OmniMic feature set and measurement capability has been expanded quite a bit since it's initial release.

No offense, please, but until you really measure the LF in your room a various positions, you're really flying blind. You've got a nice potent system, and you could really benefit from it. Plus, many find that it's actually quite fun and educational. And you'd likely be surprised how often you use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post


+1

It's one of the best pieces of equipment in my rig and has given me the eyes to make huge improvements! It has saved me hours upon hours of playing test tones and graphing....That alone is worth the investment!

With such nice equipment, you'll really be able to get the most out of them with the OM...

Damn u two. Lol

I think that will be my next purchase. I thought hard about purchasing the audyssey pro kit to go with my mult xt32.
post #172 of 185
That is very interesting about the Omnimic. I will have to think about getting one when I get my second 450.
My HT has seen minimal use over the last couple weeks though. Ever since I destroyed several items that USED to hang on the walls, during my first viewing of Underworld Awakening. ;-) I plugged one of the ports, and holy cow! Pictures got shaken off of the wall, and a china cabinet fell down in the next room. The wife was not happy! One silver lining is that it makes it pretty obvious to her that I need a dedicated theater room now.
post #173 of 185
Thread Starter 
How did you like plugging of the ports? I tried that with my a5350s. I measured with one port plugged and both ports plugged. I noticed though not as much output with ports plugged, defiantly more headroom.

Again this was with my old subs.
post #174 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

How did you like plugging of the ports? I tried that with my a5350s. I measured with one port plugged and both ports plugged. I noticed though not as much output with ports plugged, defiantly more headroom.

Again this was with my old subs.

Both ports plugged greatly reduces output, but it definitely digs alot deeper. It's nice to be able to get more extension, but I just don't want to sacrifice the output. One port plugged is a nice compromise. Especially now that I have to consider my surroundings. LOL But If I had a dedicated room, I'd probably leave both ports open and enjoy the output.
post #175 of 185
Thread Starter 
The numbers told me on my old subs that ported was definately more output.
post #176 of 185
If you plug the ports, you'd need to re-EQ the subsequent response.

The system would change from a 4th order roll off (24dB/octave) below tune, to a second order roll off (12dB/octave). However, you'd likely introduce a huge peak in the response say around 50hz. So you'd have to knock down the peak, and bring up the bottom.

The good thing is your vented design is tuned very deep. Most commercially made vented subs aren't tuned similarly to yours. You could experiment and plug the ports and allow Audyssey to re-tune the subs response and see what happens.


It be a fun experiment...

Good luck
post #177 of 185
Thread Starter 
Forgot I had this video of the lt1300 amp on the a7450

post #178 of 185
So its tuned at 43hz? Love those bass notes!!! I built my own custom 18's at 7.75 cubic ft tuned at 17hz. 12" port 18" long. Picks up all notes below 120hz just fine and wont go above that lol, cant even hear those higher notes and each one pushed by a crown CE2000 bridged at 2ohm. The output is way too much even for my neighbors. Every light in the house dims when I fire up my setup. Starts with a onkyo TX-DS989, yamaha RX-V870, harmon kardon DVD-50, lexicon CP-2, rotel RDA-975, yamaha DSP-E200, technics SH-AC500D, kenwood GE-89, ADC-SS-115, kenwood GE-4030, crown CE2000 X 2, APC XS-1300. Infocus projector, 120" screen. As for speakers, the mains are definitive tech BP-30's, vintage mohogany phillips made in belgium, center is a single cerwin vega AT-15, side surrounds KLH vintage, rears vintage advents, rear back wall klipsch, rear center vintage marantz, 2 custom built 18's using sundown ZV3 parts on 6 spoke baskets and koniki big boy motors, triple stack 13.1" diameter. Boxes 7.75 cubic ft tuned at 17hz. All monster 8g wire with banana connectors. Sound loud? Is very loud. 143.3db @25hz and 153.3db @ 33hz. Paperwork to prove it and IASCA tested using termlarb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Audyssey XT32 ON

Dynamic EQ ON

PLII Music

Volume 70 Absolute (-12)

Galaxy CM140 SPL meter used. Calibrated by Cross Spectrum Labs.

C-Weighting Slow


10hz 78.6db

11hz 85.0db

12hz 91.8db

13hz 98.0db

14hz 98.0db

15hz 99.2db

16hz 101.7db

17hz 100.7db

18hz 101.2db

19hz 101.1db


20hz 99.3db

25hz 103.5db

29hz 103.0db

30hz 103.1db

35hz 104.1db

40hz 104.0db

41hz 104.1db

43hz 104.2db

45hz 102.8db

50hz 102.3db

55hz 102.2
post #179 of 185
I have a 2008 A7-450 that has the 3 ports. I don't play the system as loud as it will go, and believe blocking one or two ports will sacrifice some efficiency/output, while giving a few more Hz on the end before dropping off.

1. Is this accurate?

2. Where can I get/what can I make port blockers from now that eD is TU?

Gratuitous photo:
post #180 of 185
98, do you have yours facing the wall or the listening position?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Elemental Designs A7-450