or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Processors › Darbee vision darblet
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Darbee vision darblet - Page 7

post #181 of 7863
Hi! Does it also make black areas in the pic more black, or is that just something percieved
with the contrast enhancement? It looks like it does the areas more black on the test pics
at darbee home site.
post #182 of 7863
I wonder what would happen if you were to put 2 darblets in series feeding one display? - in other words darbonizing the first darblet output -
would it work?
would the effect double?
would you introduce artifacts even if you ran both darblets at the HD 40% setting?

I wonder
post #183 of 7863


Probably something like that.
post #184 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSignal View Post



Probably something like that.

Bummer!
post #185 of 7863
Of course that's just a theory, even in the movie they ended up doing it anyway
post #186 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSignal View Post



Probably something like that.

Win.
post #187 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by batborsen View Post

Hi! Does it also make black areas in the pic more black, or is that just something percieved
with the contrast enhancement? It looks like it does the areas more black on the test pics
at darbee home site.

Since black is the absence of light or the displays best attempt at it, I would say the observed improved black/dark areas of the picture appear that way due to the clearer/sharper lighted areas of the picture which as you noted is contrast enhancement. I have the vw95 which probably has the best black levels with DI except for the newer JVC units and the apparent deeper blacks and 'pop' is just beautiful.

Having spent way too much money on this hobby since the days of expensive Faroujda video processors, CRT projectors and regular calibration costs this little puppy for it's price is astounding for what it is able to do for picture improvement which is even more astounding that it can do it with a $25,000 upconverted 4K pj
post #188 of 7863
It would be very interesting to see if any worthwhile improvements would be observed on say a Sim2 Lumis 3 chip dlp. Since sharpness , brightness and no motion blur are some of the top qualities of this technology would the little D improve anything further? I seems that although black levels on these units don't match lcos, but the improved sharpness and brightness these do have in spades seems to make the black levels still very acceptable and believable that the little D couldn't add to it... or could it???
post #189 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmassie View Post

I wonder what would happen if you were to put 2 darblets in series feeding one display? - in other words darbonizing the first darblet output -
would it work?
would the effect double?
would you introduce artifacts even if you ran both darblets at the HD 40% setting?

I wonder

It would not seem possible to have an image processed and that image passed through the same level of processing and get any improvement unless you had a better processor.
post #190 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

It would not seem possible to have an image processed and that image passed through the same level of processing and get any improvement unless you had a better processor.

Makes sense - does your darblet increase the apparent brightness of your projector?
post #191 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmassie View Post

Makes sense - does your darblet increase the apparent brightness of your projector?

That's an interesting question, but I don't think so. I think the 'pop' effect and richness come from increased sharpness/clarity of the light/dark areas and can only assume those effects on color make them look richer. But now that you've brought that up, I'll have to focus on that this weekend with more viewing and adjusting.
post #192 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

It would be very interesting to see if any worthwhile improvements would be observed on say a Sim2 Lumis 3 chip dlp. Since sharpness , brightness and no motion blur are some of the top qualities of this technology would the little D improve anything further? I seems that although black levels on these units don't match lcos, but the improved sharpness and brightness these do have in spades seems to make the black levels still very acceptable and believable that the little D couldn't add to it... or could it???


I think you know the answer........
post #193 of 7863
Has anyone taken before and after measurements of on/off cr and ANSI cr?
post #194 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmassie View Post

I wonder what would happen if you were to put 2 darblets in series feeding one display? - in other words darbonizing the first darblet output -
would it work?
would the effect double?
would you introduce artifacts even if you ran both darblets at the HD 40% setting?

I wonder

Think of a non-linear enhancement getting non-linear enhanced. The result of double-Darbonizing could be interesting at the right levels, however it is again purely a matter of preference. The result would be in many ways, qualitatively different than simply turning up the Darbee level. How about setting one Darblet on one Mode and in line put another Darblet on a different Mode? That would be another interesting venture.
-DD
post #195 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Has anyone taken before and after measurements of on/off cr and ANSI cr?

Interested also, is there any color shift at all before after?
post #196 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

Think of a non-linear enhancement getting non-linear enhanced. The result of double-Darbonizing could be interesting at the right levels, however it is again purely a matter of preference. The result would be in many ways, qualitatively different than simply turning up the Darbee level. How about setting one Darblet on one Mode and in line put another Darblet on a different Mode? That would be another interesting venture.
-DD

So you don't dismiss it outright - have you guys tested such a configuration?
post #197 of 7863
I am Using Darblet with sony Qualia 004 - 145" Wide screen.
My personal opinion - the darblet is preferable - actually desirable - whether at 40% or at 100% - it would be an individual preference but it certainly makes the picture look "better". "Much better", actually. If this Darblet were priced at $1000, I would have said that it was absolutely worth the money! The fact that it is only $250 makes this device, IMHO, "a must own" for almost all of us, with very few exceptions, if any.
My sincere compliments, Mr. Darbee. You seem a genius in this field. You have improved the picture without any negative visual side effects.

ps: The ONLY "weakness" I see is that in dark scenes, there is a very small "mosquito noise" (dish hopper - watching ncis - darblet at 100% HiDef). But the positives are so superior that I don't bother to reduce the "darbee effect number" even for dark scenes.

Suggestion for next level of improvement - Mr. Darbee - auto reduction of "darbee number", for night/dark scenes(entire frame being mostly dark).. Don't get me wrong.. You have an amazing product. I am happy to enjoy this for a few years, until you come up with the next version.
post #198 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

Think of a non-linear enhancement getting non-linear enhanced. The result of double-Darbonizing could be interesting at the right levels, however it is again purely a matter of preference. The result would be in many ways, qualitatively different than simply turning up the Darbee level. How about setting one Darblet on one Mode and in line put another Darblet on a different Mode? That would be another interesting venture.
-DD

I will order another one and try it.
post #199 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post

I am Using Darblet with sony Qualia 004 - 145" Wide screen.
My personal opinion - the darblet is preferable - actually desirable - whether at 40% or at 100% - it would be an individual preference but it certainly makes the picture look "better". "Much better", actually. If this Darblet were priced at $1000, I would have said that it was absolutely worth the money! The fact that it is only $250 makes this device, IMHO, "a must own" for almost all of us, with very few exceptions, if any.
My sincere compliments, Mr. Darbee. You seem a genius in this field. You have improved the picture without any negative visual side effects.

ps: The ONLY "weakness" I see is that in dark scenes, there is a very small "mosquito noise" (dish hopper - watching ncis - darblet at 100% HiDef). But the positives are so superior that I don't bother to reduce the "darbee effect number" even for dark scenes.

Suggestion for next level of improvement - Mr. Darbee - auto reduction of "darbee number", for night/dark scenes(entire frame being mostly dark).. Don't get me wrong.. You have an amazing product. I am happy to enjoy this for a few years, until you come up with the next version.

I wonder if the algorithm can be improved - more pop with less artifacts? It would also be great if you can save certain settings for certain material
post #200 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Interested also, is there any color shift at all before after?

We only process luma in our algorithm.
We chroma track to avoid, ie. making red look pink, but never rotate the vector.
- DD
post #201 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

We only process luma in our algorithm.
We chroma track to avoid, ie. making red look pink, but never rotate the vector.
- DD

Thanks DD, so if we shoot color before and after it would be exactly the same?
post #202 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Thanks DD, so if we shoot color before and after it would be exactly the same?

During the time that Darbee Visual Presence was applied to a couple of Robert Altman films, some Hollywood colorists discovered (with their instruments) that a tiny bit error in Paul's math, caused a tiny modification of the color. They gave him a pretty rough time over it. It was fixed a long time ago and today we live by the mantra, don't mess with the colors. The DVP process will not change the chroma other than lengthening or shortening the vector. You should find no change to the colors, with your instruments.
-DD
post #203 of 7863
Avs, when can we start placing order again?
post #204 of 7863
Hi DarbeeDR I was hoping you could answer A couple questions concerning the Darblet..

looking at the User Guide the Darblet performs internal processing in YCbCr 4:4:4, so assume will only output YcBcR 4:4:4.. If one was using 4:2:2 throughout the entire video chain the Darblet would convert to, then out put only in 4:4:4 colorspace ?

Also will the Darblet process custom resolutions such as (2:35.1 AR) 1920x818 @47.95Hz..

Thanks
post #205 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

Hi DarbeeDR I was hoping you could answer A couple questions concerning the Darblet..

looking at the User Guide the Darblet performs internal processing in YCbCr 4:4:4, so assume will only output YcBcR 4:4:4.. If one was using 4:2:2 throughout the entire video chain the Darblet would convert to, then out put only in 4:4:4 colorspace ?

Also will the Darblet process custom resolutions such as (2:35.1 AR) 1920x818 @47.95Hz..

Thanks

1. Despite our internal processing performance and color space, we give back exactly what we were handed.
2. If your video format is supported in the HDMI 1.4a spec, we support it.
-DD
post #206 of 7863
Thankyou DarbeeDR for taking the time to answer my questions..

So if I understand you correctly
The Darblet will convert back to 422 if it was sent 4:2:2 initally?
or will remain at 4:4:4 out?

Its just that Displays that internaly process in the 422 domain such as Panasonic VT plasmas perform best when fed 4:2:2 & avoid any unnecessary colorspace conversion issues..

( confirmed using Chroma Multiburst patterns 4:4:4 is not optimum for such displays )

Thanks again...
post #207 of 7863
After bunches of years fighting resolution technology every step aong the way, from Kinescope Recordings to Blu-Ray; and all the testing and writing of system specifications for the Hughes Aircraft Maverick Television guided missile, I thought we had reached a nirvana (for the present anyway) with Blu-Ray on the 10 foot diagonal (1.3) flat white sceen fed by the Epson 5010 and an OPPO 93.
Blu-Ray (and HD-DVD) are great formats. Closer to whatever is on the film. A superb picture; and, I think most of we videophiles felt that was 'it' until 4K.
Well, it's not true, Paul Darbee, after years of development, has pulled one out of the hat, no question about it, the picture is greatly improved.
This ain't no ordinary "peaker" enhancement booster. The sweeping "demo" comparator proves it to be pure magic.
The higher the bit rate (like Blu-Ray Discs), the better the result of this clever processing.
Detail enhancement is in no way detrimental to the original pic. Resolution and detail contrast (even in very tiny areas) is solidly improved over the high bit rate scenes in the new Blu-Ray "Albert Nobbs" (around 20MBps). Colors and Brightness appear unaffected. Using the "HD" and "Pic Pop" modes at 50 to 80%.

It is a step closer to a real-life viewing of the scenes in the film, from the facial closeups to the distant scenes, the picture 'quality' is flat out, far better viewing.
I'll be looking for, and expect; great improvements from the Darblet for DVD, ROKU, and local sports Broadcasting (Phd Tuner) as well as Blu-Ray from LG200 and Denon 2500.
gil
post #208 of 7863
Well stated, Mr. Arroyo, I've quoted you at the Solid Signal Blog on the front page!
post #209 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

Thankyou DarbeeDR for taking the time to answer my questions..

So if I understand you correctly
The Darblet will convert back to 422 if it was sent 4:2:2 initally?
or will remain at 4:4:4 out?

Its just that Displays that internaly process in the 422 domain such as Panasonic VT plasmas perform best when fed 4:2:2 & avoid any unnecessary colorspace conversion issues..

( confirmed using Chroma Multiburst patterns 4:4:4 is not optimum for such displays )

Thanks again...

Sorry, sometimes a short answer leaves ambiguity.

The Darblet will always process YCbCr 4:4:4 internally, but converts the video back to whatever format it was originally, after processing. This is intended to make the Darblet as transparent as possible when inserted into any existing HDMI chain, while maintaining the highest quality of the internal mathematical calculations.
-DD
post #210 of 7863
zombie, did you get yours and what's your take?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Processors › Darbee vision darblet