Darbee vision darblet - Page 66

Originally Posted by lovingdvd 

My new Darbee with the updated code to work with the Lumagen in YCrCb 4:2:2 arrived today and I just finished testing it. It has software version: 2.8.2214 and Firmware version 1.3.21. I can confirm that this works with the Lumagen now in both RGB and YCrCb 4:2:2 without color issues.
However... unfortunately this has now introduced a side effect in the HDMI handshaking. Specifically when running in 4:2:2 mode with my Comcast STB there is a full screen flash of magenta when I change channels which involve a resolution change. For instance when I go between a channel that is 720p to a channel that is 1080i, or vice-versa. When doing so the channel change is now rather messy with this bright magenta full-screen flash. I put the Radiance into RGB mode and the magenta flash does not happen. I put it back into 4:2:2 and it happens. Just to make sure that the Darbee was involved, I removed the Darbee from the chain and retested the channel changes. Without the Darbee in the chain the channel changes involving a resolution change are perfectly clean - black during the brief transition, no flickering, no magenta. I put the Darbee back in and once again confirmed the messy channel changes and magenta flash. I worked extensively with Lumagen several months ago to help them test firmware that ultimately gave us these clean channel changes so I'm not so thrilled to see this issue introduced. Maybe it's something Lumagen can tweak in their firmware to compensate, I'm not sure. The channel changes with the magenta flash are rather bothersome, so much so that I may just run in RGB mode for now until this gets resolved. It may also be specific to my chain and projector. For reference I'm going Comcast DCX-3400 -> 6 foot HDMI -> Lumagen XS -> 6 foot HDMI ->Darbee -> 50 foot HDMI -> Sony VW95 projector.
I reported this to Larry at Darbee as well as Lumagen support. All this said I still love the Darbee and would never consider getting rid of it even with these issues here in the early days.

Originally Posted by lovingdvd 

It will try it just as a test the next chance I get and will report back the findings. However I'm not keen to run it this way even if it works. Lumagen does all its processing in 4:2:2 and there's a chance the VW95 natively uses 4:2:2 itself. If that's the case then what you suggest would result in the Lumagen converting it to 4:4:4 and then the VW95 just converting it back to 4:2:2. I believe the general advice from Lumagen is to output in 4:2:2 and let the display convert it to what it wants.
Well, its quite possible this falls more into the Lumagen camp then the Darbee camp, in which case I would anticipate a firmware update for the Radiance to clean it up.

Originally Posted by henrich3 

You can configure the Radiance to output whatever resolution & color space you want, regardless of the input resolution/color space. If you configure the Radiance to convert 720p/RGB to 1080p60/YCbCr then the Darblet should never see an input resolution of 720p or a color space of RGB. If your Radiance is already configured to scale 720p to 1080p but it just misses the first few frames, try configuring your Comcast box to output 720p content as 1080i. The Lumagen should do a better job of scaling however.
I'm not saying that Darbee support shouldn't investigate this, but hard-coding the Radiance to only output 1080p and 4:2:2 should hopefully resolve any resolution change or color space change related issues.

Originally Posted by sjschaff 

This is probably more about the Comcast color space settings and the associated Lumagen input setting for that specific input. The Comcast can either be set, unless there's been a change to firmware function, to either 4:4:4 or RGB. So, choosing one of these it would make sense to set the Lumagen's input to the same. Setting the Lumagen input to 4:2:2 would result in a mismatch. The other thing that's going on here, seems to be a resolution change. He didn't say which one is set on the Comcast. I think the default is 1080i though you can specify others. And there's another interesting setting that allows you to select the native mode operation. Not clear to me just how that impacts the way the Comcast presents to downstream, though I'm thinking that specifying 1080i here allows for 4:4:4 color space.

Originally Posted by Dundas 


Yea but the Darbee does its processing in 4:4:4 so it is taking the 4:2:2 from the Lumagen and converting it to 4:4:4 for processing then converting it back to 4:2:2 for output. It's a question of which way works better in a given system.

Originally Posted by millerwill 


Has this actually been established, that the D processes in 444?    Where did you find out about this?

Originally Posted by Dundas 

Yea but the Darbee does its processing in 4:4:4 so it is taking the 4:2:2 from the Lumagen and converting it to 4:4:4 for processing then converting it back to 4:2:2 for output. It's a question of which way works better in a given system.

Originally Posted by sjschaff 

I can confirm that when I output Native from my Tivo HD that I too see a magenta flash whenever channels having differing resolution (i.e. 720p to 1080i) but not when switching to channels from the same resolution. Last about 1/10 of a second I think.

Originally Posted by BakeApples 

I`m interested in buying the Darbee Darblet, where can i order this online that ships to Sweden?

Originally Posted by BakeApples 

I`m interested in buying the Darbee Darblet, where can i order this online that ships to Sweden?

Originally Posted by sjschaff 

Go here and fill out your question https://shop.avscience.com/crm.asp?action=contactus
There are other potential dealers as well http://darbeevision.com/#dealers

Originally Posted by sjschaff 

Go here and fill out your question https://shop.avscience.com/crm.asp?action=contactus
There are other potential dealers as well http://darbeevision.com/#dealers

Originally Posted by Waboman 

A member here who lives in Australia ordered his thru Smarthome. If they ship down under, there's a good chance they ship to Europe too. Send them an email and me some baked apples.

Originally Posted by lovingdvd 

Darbee working just fine with my Motorola DCX3400 DVR (aside from the colorspace issue with known Darbee bug for Lumagen users). I used to have the 3416 box. If the DCX3400 is available in your area IMO its a much better box and your hard drive capacity will be a lot more. I think I went from like 160GB to 500GB when I upgraded my DVR to the 3400.

Originally Posted by Dundas 


It's in the manual

Originally Posted by rfpublic 

At this point we don't know why some people, who have a Darbee with the latest software, connected to the Radiance, are sometime seeing some flashes of color when the resolution changes. We doubt that this is caused by the Radiance, but we will try to get a Darbee with the latest software, to check it's operation with the Radiance. Often we can do something in the Radiance to help with this type of issue.
Randy Freeman
Lumagen

Originally Posted by Dundas 

What a great company!

Originally Posted by rfpublic 

At this point we don't know why some people, who have a Darbee with the latest software, connected to the Radiance, are sometime seeing some flashes of color when the resolution changes. We doubt that this is caused by the Radiance, but we will try to get a Darbee with the latest software, to check it's operation with the Radiance. Often we can do something in the Radiance to help with this type of issue.
Randy Freeman
Lumagen

Originally Posted by Dundas 

Yea but the Darbee does its processing in 4:4:4 so it is taking the 4:2:2 from the Lumagen and converting it to 4:4:4 for processing then converting it back to 4:2:2 for output. It's a question of which way works better in a given system.

Originally Posted by millerwill 


Has this actually been established, that the D processes in 444?    Where did you find out about this?

Originally Posted by millerwill 


Yep, you're right!    Thanks, I had missed that.

SO, since one might expect the Lumagen to do the color space conversions better than any other component, it might very well be best to send 444 out of the Lumagen to the Darb.     Still better to do what Ronomy advises, i.e., check out all possibilities with the M&S disk.

Originally Posted by sjschaff 

'
Sorry to hear you're running into this. I thought you can only specify either YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB on your STB. Maybe it's been updated...
I guess with my luck (TIVO HD which outputs YCbCr 4:4:4) I'm not seeing these types of issues, though there is quite a bit of back and forth flickering on the screen, sometimes seeing a burst of green rather than magenta. But I fully expected that the EDID negotiation would have that result. Certainly glad I'm not much of a channel surfer...

Originally Posted by sjschaff 

This is probably more about the Comcast color space settings and the associated Lumagen input setting for that specific input. The Comcast can either be set, unless there's been a change to firmware function, to either 4:4:4 or RGB. So, choosing one of these it would make sense to set the Lumagen's input to the same. Setting the Lumagen input to 4:2:2 would result in a mismatch. The other thing that's going on here, seems to be a resolution change. He didn't say which one is set on the Comcast. I think the default is 1080i though you can specify others. And there's another interesting setting that allows you to select the native mode operation. Not clear to me just how that impacts the way the Comcast presents to downstream, though I'm thinking that specifying 1080i here allows for 4:4:4 color space.
I can confirm that when I output Native from my Tivo HD that I too see a magenta flash whenever channels having differing resolution (i.e. 720p to 1080i) but not when switching to channels from the same resolution. Last about 1/10 of a second I think.

Originally Posted by Ronomy 

Folks! Get a copy of the Spears and Munsil disc and test each color space to see what is best. 4:2:2 into my JVC RS1 is not good so don't just go by what somebody else says you should use. You have to see it for yourself.

Originally Posted by millerwill 


Yep, you're right!    Thanks, I had missed that.

SO, since one might expect the Lumagen to do the color space conversions better than any other component, it might very well be best to send 444 out of the Lumagen to the Darb.     Still better to do what Ronomy advises, i.e., check out all possibilities with the M&S disk.

Originally Posted by lovingdvd 

I did not mean to imply what I am sending 4:2:2 from the STB. As you and others have mentioned, the only options are RGB and 444. So I have 444 going from my STB to the Lumagen. I do not tell the Lumagen what the input is so it figures it out on its own I presume. I only tell it what to output.
Lumagen spent a lot of time several months ago optimizing their HDMI handshaking especially related to resolution changes. I did a lot of testing for them and the result was fantastic. They got it cleaned up and very tight. With the Darbee in the chain and 422 set it is now messy with the magenta flash. Whether this is more on the Lumagen or Darbee end I couldn't say. All I know is that its clean without the Darbee in the chain.
I am using the Native option on the STB. Yes exactly - changing to a channel that uses a different resolution results in the flash. Changing channels within the same resolution is smooth and very fast.

### Well it seems with the Tivo HD - Lumagen XS - Darblet - JVC RS35 I'm having the same magenta issue as you. Interesting...(we'll leave it to Randy and his team to puzzle this one out).

I do not have this disc, but am curious what the procedure is for using it to test this specifically. Can you explain?

### I have the disc and if you go to their site for this article http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/articles/choosingacolorspace.html you'll see it's a lengthy process. I went through it with the Darblet active in the chain at HD level 50 testing 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 with the Lumagen and JVC and saw no visible difference, to my tired eyes. So, I don't think it really seems to matter whether the Darblet or the JVC is doing the work of converting (Darblet to 4:2:2 or JVC to 4:4:4).

So then does the Darbee note whatever the color space is on the way in, do its processing in 444 regardless, and then convert back to the original space? So if it comes in via the Lumagen at 4:2:2 the Darbee then converts it to 444, does it work, then converts it back to 422, then the projector gets it and may very well convert it back to 444 (anyone know what the Sony VW95 does)? With this in mind then perhaps it is better to output 444 from the Radiance regardless of the magenta issue. At any rate I'll try it and will let you guys know if it still flashes magenta in 444.

Originally Posted by sjschaff 

### Looking forward to hearing what your testing uncovers on the flashing issue. I was under the impression that you get a single magenta flash and then everything works. Others seem to have a sync / flashing problem that seems never to settle. Hope I'm understanding that correctly.

Originally Posted by lovingdvd 
....
So then does the Darbee note whatever the color space is on the way in, do its processing in 444 regardless, and then convert back to the original space? So if it comes in via the Lumagen at 4:2:2 the Darbee then converts it to 444, does it work, then converts it back to 422, then the projector gets it and may very well convert it back to 444 (anyone know what the Sony VW95 does)? With this in mind then perhaps it is better to output 444 from the Radiance regardless of the magenta issue. At any rate I'll try it and will let you guys know if it still flashes magenta in 444.