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Darbee vision darblet - Page 18

post #511 of 6129
6/12/12 at 8:55am
I've got a question.

People really like the Darblet, and I know that a projector should be calibrated first for the best benefit, but....

What if you could only afford to do one right now (Get calibration gear and DIY it, which I am fine with, OR get a Darblet)?

In time I will do both, but which would offer the biggest advantage, in all of your opinions?

The projector is a JVC RS45 on a 137" 1.78:1 Seymour XD screen.

Sources are Panasonic Blu-Ray, Toshiba HD-DVD, Dish 722K.

If I wasn't so over budget on my basement finish, I would just get them both, but I have father's day and a birthday coming, so I think I can scrape up some bucks to get one or the other...

Thoughts?
Edited by nickbuol - 6/12/12 at 9:18am
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post #512 of 6129
6/12/12 at 9:01am
One other observation - I wish the GAME mode used BLUE to indicate it was active. With colour blindness I can barely see the difference between GREEN and YELLOW mode, and R,G,B would have been an obvious nod to the image industry biggrin.gif
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post #513 of 6129
6/12/12 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

I've got a question.
People really like the Darblet, and I know that a projector shoudl be calibrated first for the best benefit, but....

You've answered your own question wink.gif
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post #514 of 6129
6/12/12 at 9:21am
Ha. Thanks Mark. So calibration will give me the biggest (if not the most "correct") improvement then.

The Darblet is better for down the road. Maybe when my bulb starts dimming and I need a little more "pop" biggrin.gif
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post #515 of 6129
6/12/12 at 10:44am
Calibration is the foundation of a great image. Things like the Darblet can build upon that foundation.
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post #516 of 6129
6/12/12 at 11:14am
Of course, by the time I get around to getting a Darblet, they will be on V2.0 with a solid black case, HDMI ports on the same side or at least angled, 4:2:2/4:4:4/RGB changed, and other improvements and start charging $500.....
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post #517 of 6129
6/12/12 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jslaw81 View Post

Any timetable on that? I will probably have to return my unit.

It is hard to provide a delivery date, however creating that switch function is at the top of the priority list.

We will be at CEDIA Indianapolis and I will suggest that one way to get the fix and any upgrades (that become available) is to bring your Darblet to our booth. (#712)

-DD
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post #518 of 6129
6/12/12 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Also so much for DarbeeDr saying they don't touch color!


Sorry for the confusion.

Avoiding hue vector rotation while clipping the intensity to avoid excursion into another color space is a commonly prescribed and accepted practice and therefore why we allow ourselves to claim that we "do not touching the colors."

-DD
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post #519 of 6129
6/12/12 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

Sorry for the confusion.
Avoiding hue vector rotation while clipping the intensity to avoid excursion into another color space is a commonly prescribed and accepted practice and therefore why we allow ourselves to claim that we "do not touching the colors."
-DD

I seem to see more artifacts when I send the darblet 4:4:4 and it outputs RGB and especially in color. I don't see any of that when I stick with all RGB in and out. Somebody mentioned text smearing...I haven't seen any artifacts since I changed to all RGB even when I crank it up to 100%. I can over enhance but the weirdness I was getting is gone. 70-80% looks clean now. Before it was 50% and I had problems.
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post #520 of 6129
6/12/12 at 4:50pm
Pronto hex codes for the Darblet. I learned the codes to a Pronto. Using the Pronto all codes work. I also copied the hex codes to a MX-980 and they also work with it. Hopefully other can find these useful.


Quote:
On/Off
0000 0000 0000 0000 006B 0000 000B 0045 0023 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0022 0069 0023 0046 0022 0046 0022 0023 0022 0023 0089 0045 02F8

Up
0000 0000 0000 0000 006B 0000 000B 0045 0023 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0023 0023 0022 0023 0022 0046 0022 0046 0022 0069 0089 0045 02F8

Down
0000 0000 0000 0000 006B 0000 000A 0045 0023 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0023 0046 0045 0046 0022 0046 0022 0023 00CD 0045 02F8

Menu
0000 0000 0000 0000 006B 0028 0000 0045 0023 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0022 0023 0067 0046 0022 0046 0022 0046 00AB 0045 02F8 0045 0022 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0044 0069 0022 0023 0067 0046 0022 0046 0022 0046 00AB 0045 02F7 0045 0022 00D2 0023 0023 0044 0023 0045 0069 0022 0023 0067 0046 0022 0046 0022 0046 00AB 0045 02F8 0045 0022 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0022 0023 0067 0046 0022 0046 0022 0046 00AB 0045 0023

Hi Def
0000 0000 0000 0000 006B 0000 000B 0045 0023 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0023 008C 0023 0023 0022 0046 0022 0023 0022 0069 0044 0045 02F8

Gaming
0000 0000 0000 0000 006B 0000 000B 0045 0023 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0022 0023 0022 0046 0022 0023 0022 0046 0022 00AF 0044 0045 02F8

Full Pop
0000 0000 0000 0000 006B 0000 000C 0045 0023 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0022 0046 0022 0023 0022 0023 0022 0046 0022 0023 0045 0046 0044 0045 02F8

Demo
0000 0000 0000 0000 006B 0000 000C 0045 0023 00D2 0023 0023 0045 0023 0045 0069 0023 0023 0045 0023 0022 0023 0022 0046 0022 0046 0022 0046 0044 0045 02F8
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post #521 of 6129
6/12/12 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I seem to see more artifacts when I send the darblet 4:4:4 and it outputs RGB and especially in color. I don't see any of that when I stick with all RGB in and out. Somebody mentioned text smearing...I haven't seen any artifacts since I changed to all RGB even when I crank it up to 100%. I can over enhance but the weirdness I was getting is gone. 70-80% looks clean now. Before it was 50% and I had problems.

Dr. Darbee. Can you comment on this? I know you are working on this, but is this the 'workaround" that we can live with for a while before you had the FW update?
I remember people telling me that I should stick with 422 all the way, although I forget exactly why using RGB is not OK...
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post #522 of 6129
6/12/12 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post


 .....
We will be at CEDIA Indianapolis and I will suggest that one way to get the fix and any upgrades (that become available) is to bring your Darblet to our booth. (#712)
-DD

This is a great idea--I'll be at CEDIA and will indeed come by with my Darblet!    Thanks much for mentioning this possibility.

 

To be clear, is the intended upgrade to allow different color spaces, e.g., 422, to be output from the Darblet, in addition to RGB?

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post #523 of 6129
6/12/12 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Dr. Darbee. Can you comment on this? I know you are working on this, but is this the 'workaround" that we can live with for a while before you had the FW update?
I remember people telling me that I should stick with 422 all the way, although I forget exactly why using RGB is not OK...

I think if you use 36 bit color some projectors will only work that way with 4:4:4. The projector usually does all its processing using 4:4:4 so you want to avoid multiple conversions. I would like to eventually go back to 4:4:4 but I did some comparing without the darblet and I am hard pressed to see a problem on my projector.
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post #524 of 6129
6/12/12 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Another observation with the Darblet (outputting from a Radiance Mini to a Sony1000ES): with the Radiance set to output RGB, as recommended by others above (thanks!), not only are the colors much better (accurate and vibrant), but when I check Contrast with the S&M disk, I find that I can set it all the way to 100% (Max) without ANY clipping of any of colors, R, G, or B. And the White bars are resolved all the way up to 250 or so. Without the Darblet, I could set Contrast no higher than ~ 85 to 90 without clipping some of the colors to some extent. This is perhaps consistent with the increased contrast in the pic that the D provides.
I am liking it now (in HiDef mode, ~ 50%) esp with the suggestion by some of you about setting the Radiance to output RGB to it. This is the great thing about the Forum!

Did you look at any of the other S&M patterns, such as sharpening?
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post #525 of 6129
6/12/12 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post


Did you look at any of the other S&M patterns, such as sharpening?


I did look at the sharpness patterns in S&M and didn't see any artifacts with the Darblet in the mix; i.e., no white outlines around dark figures, etc.     I have Sharpness set to 15 in the Sony1000--don't really notice much diff from 0, but also don't see any harmful effects, so went with it.    

 

I've now moved the D down to 40% (in Hidef mode); still experimenting, but I've backed off from being too aggressive.  

 

I'm still playing with the D.   E.g., on very high quality HDTV--e.g., the NBA finals--I pause the pic and then look carefully with switching the D 'on' and 'off' (I like this better than using the split screen).    It's not a world-shaking enhancement--the !000 is pretty remarkable in itself--but I can discern a small increased contrast and sharpness.   I thus do think it is an improvement and so far haven't seen any downsides.

 

PS   OTOH, I don't see that the D improves the PQ of weak sources--e.g., SD TV, as an extreme--very much.    As others have said, it works best when a high quality source is input to it, and it takes this to the next level.


Edited by millerwill - 6/12/12 at 6:36pm
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post #526 of 6129
6/12/12 at 6:44pm
I have a Duo VP and think it makes a noticeable difference on the NASA channel that is still in SD on Directv. The Duo scales it to 1080p and the Darblet enhances it afterwords. The Darblet works great on the old RS1. I too might find some shows with lower bit rates will be better with a lower setting. At least it is easy to change.
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post #527 of 6129
6/12/12 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I have a Duo VP and think it makes a noticeable difference on the NASA channel that is still in SD on Directv. The Duo scales it to 1080p and the Darblet enhances it afterwords. The Darblet works great on the old RS1. I too might find some shows with lower bit rates will be better with a lower setting. At least it is easy to change.

Interesting.   Maybe a more aggressive setting of the D would be more effective with poorer sources.

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post #528 of 6129
6/12/12 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Interesting.   Maybe a more aggressive setting of the D would be more effective with poorer sources.

Well lower res clean sources. If there is blockiness because the bitrate is too low at that point you can't do much with it but the softer images can come to life. I found some shows tonight where I had to turn it down to 45% so it does vary.
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post #529 of 6129
6/12/12 at 9:36pm
Dear Doctor Darbee:

I think there is a design defect in the DARBLET when viewing 3D video.

The feature film "John Carter 3D" is the first Blu-Ray I've tried with the Darblet. As usual the Darblet resolution improvement was spectacular and unique.

Using the HDMI 1 (primary video) output from an OPPO 93 direct to the Darblet and the output from the Darblet direct to an Epson 5010.

The problem is 3 second blackouts (no signal from the Darblet occuring at random intervals from seconds apart to minutes apart.
This occurs even at the opening title if left on or in player pause if the player is outputing the 3D signal.

Switching the Darblet from HD, Game, or Pop at any percentage including zero (0%) does not change the existant problem.

Tried HDMI 2 from the OPPO (secondary output). No change.

Tried different 2D videos and there was never a problem with any Blu-Ray or DVD in the same linkage.

Tried "Hugo 3D" and "Arabia 3D". Same problem. Switching "Hugo" to the 2D playback; the problem disappears.

Took the Darblet out of the circuit; HDMI 1 from the OPPO direct to the Epson 5010 and played all three Blu-Ray 3D videos in 3D mode with NO problems at all.

Reconnected the Darblet and the same symptoms of exactly 3 second 'dropouts' reappears at random intervals with all three 3D features and not with any DVD or other Blu-Rays.

Please confirm and advise.

Gil
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post #530 of 6129
6/13/12 at 12:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Arroyo View Post

Dear Doctor Darbee:
I think there is a design defect in the DARBLET when viewing 3D video.
The feature film "John Carter 3D" is the first Blu-Ray I've tried with the Darblet. As usual the Darblet resolution improvement was spectacular and unique.
Using the HDMI 1 (primary video) output from an OPPO 93 direct to the Darblet and the output from the Darblet direct to an Epson 5010.
The problem is 3 second blackouts (no signal from the Darblet occuring at random intervals from seconds apart to minutes apart.
This occurs even at the opening title if left on or in player pause if the player is outputing the 3D signal.
Switching the Darblet from HD, Game, or Pop at any percentage including zero (0%) does not change the existant problem.
Tried HDMI 2 from the OPPO (secondary output). No change.
Tried different 2D videos and there was never a problem with any Blu-Ray or DVD in the same linkage.
Tried "Hugo 3D" and "Arabia 3D". Same problem. Switching "Hugo" to the 2D playback; the problem disappears.
Took the Darblet out of the circuit; HDMI 1 from the OPPO direct to the Epson 5010 and played all three Blu-Ray 3D videos in 3D mode with NO problems at all.
Reconnected the Darblet and the same symptoms of exactly 3 second 'dropouts' reappears at random intervals with all three 3D features and not with any DVD or other Blu-Rays.
Please confirm and advise.
Gil

Sorry to hear about this issue.

We will work with Oppo to determine the cause.

Please stay tuned.

-DD
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post #531 of 6129
6/13/12 at 1:02am
Anyone has an idea of who will ship international, want to get one for my VW-1000 biggrin.gif
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post #532 of 6129
6/13/12 at 1:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Somebody mentioned text smearing...I haven't seen any artifacts since I changed to all RGB even when I crank it up to 100%.

Check Chronicles of Riddick if you have it. I just verified I was setup to RGB/PC output into the Darblet, so should be seeing same as you. Start with POP mode at 120% to make the issue very obvious. Chapter 2 - when the planet name is on screen there are clear trails/shadows on some of the letters. When you switch to other modes you can then see them too. Backing down to about 40% and they blend away.

I'm pretty certain this isn't in the source because it looks clean with no processing and I suspect this is simply to do with the algorithm used and the particular colours in that scene. BUT it *IS* a visual artefact, and one that is likely to occur in other parts of the image; the sharp text just makes it obvious. Thus one needs to be careful about the amount of processing used.

This was noted on my 15' wide 2.35:1 projection setup. But also on my 40" LCD TV I see artefacts in the EPG. However, due to the smaller screen size I can push processing higher before it becomes obvious.

Having said this I HAVE ordered a second Darblet so that I can support my cinema and TV separately as I *DO* like what it does biggrin.gif

I guess my point is that, as with all processing, often LESS is MORE...
Edited by Mark_H - 6/13/12 at 2:28am
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post #533 of 6129
6/13/12 at 1:13am
AVS offer international shipping ..
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post #534 of 6129
6/13/12 at 1:57am
A simple question for DarbeeDr (or anyone else who might know):

I just got the Darblet last night and LOVE it! My question is: is the Darblet meant to be left on 24/7, or should it be shut off when not in use? If it is shut off, will I lose the settings and have to reset the Darblet again upon turning it on?
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post #535 of 6129
6/13/12 at 3:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

AVS offer international shipping ..

I tried ordering, they only ship to USA/Canada
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post #536 of 6129
6/13/12 at 4:13am
Smarthome.com offer international shipping.
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post #537 of 6129
6/13/12 at 5:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by didrikc View Post

Smarthome.com offer international shipping.

Thanks! Order placed biggrin.gif
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post #538 of 6129
6/13/12 at 5:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Arroyo View Post

Dear Doctor Darbee:
I think there is a design defect in the DARBLET when viewing 3D video.
The feature film "John Carter 3D" is the first Blu-Ray I've tried with the Darblet. As usual the Darblet resolution improvement was spectacular and unique.
Using the HDMI 1 (primary video) output from an OPPO 93 direct to the Darblet and the output from the Darblet direct to an Epson 5010.
The problem is 3 second blackouts (no signal from the Darblet occuring at random intervals from seconds apart to minutes apart.
This occurs even at the opening title if left on or in player pause if the player is outputing the 3D signal.
Switching the Darblet from HD, Game, or Pop at any percentage including zero (0%) does not change the existant problem.
Tried HDMI 2 from the OPPO (secondary output). No change.
Tried different 2D videos and there was never a problem with any Blu-Ray or DVD in the same linkage.
Tried "Hugo 3D" and "Arabia 3D". Same problem. Switching "Hugo" to the 2D playback; the problem disappears.
Took the Darblet out of the circuit; HDMI 1 from the OPPO direct to the Epson 5010 and played all three Blu-Ray 3D videos in 3D mode with NO problems at all.
Reconnected the Darblet and the same symptoms of exactly 3 second 'dropouts' reappears at random intervals with all three 3D features and not with any DVD or other Blu-Rays.
Please confirm and advise.
Gil

I watched John Carter 3D last weekend with no dropout issues (Oppo -> Radiance -> Darblet -> pj). Try installing (or re-installing) the latest Oppo firmware, then reset the Oppo (Device Setup -> Reset Factory Default). Configure your personal settings after the reset. Give JC3D another watch after that to see if it helped.
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post #539 of 6129
6/13/12 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cR4p View Post

Anyone has an idea of who will ship international, want to get one for my VW-1000 biggrin.gif

You might want to hold off ordering until after the Darblet firmware is updated with fixes for the color space & luminance range issues...
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post #540 of 6129
6/13/12 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by geodon005 View Post

A simple question for DarbeeDr (or anyone else who might know):
I just got the Darblet last night and LOVE it! My question is: is the Darblet meant to be left on 24/7, or should it be shut off when not in use? If it is shut off, will I lose the settings and have to reset the Darblet again upon turning it on?

Glad you like it.

The Darblet runs at a temp that it is designed to be left on.

The Darblet settings persist when it is powered off.

The factory default settings can be reset from within the Settings Menu.

-DD
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