Darbee vision darblet - Page 29

Been wondering the same thing while I'm waiting for mine. Ordered 2 weeks ago lol.

Hi There!

I’m looking at getting a Darblet but am a little confused on the best insertion point in my setup. So I’m putting it out to the masses here at AVS for some opinions.

I currently run a Crestron DM System so I have 6 sources going to 2 displays. I’m wondering if it makes sense to put the Darblet after the source prior to being routed by the Crestron DM or if it makes sense to put it on after the Crestron Room Controller right before the display.

It’s a Catch 22… Because I see some benefits to both…

The Pros I see for doing it at the display is 1) I only need 2 Darblet’s (Right Now) and processing is completed for all current content, 2) all the processing is done at the last possible step prior to being displayed, 3) the Menu/IR functions on the Darblet will be easier to work with since I won’t have to go to my A/V Rack to make an adjustment and then go to my display to see if I like it (More Of An Initial Setup Pain Though).

The Pros I see for putting in on each source and is huge, is 1) I can customize the output for each source (i.e. Sat Boxes(Full Pop), Blu-Ray (Hi Def), HTPC (Hi Def), etc.) and set it / forget it.

I should also note that I used the Crestron DM 8G Cable from the DM to the Room Controller and notice no visual loss in image quality.

Thoughts?

Thanks In Advance!
MD
Edited by Butt_Love - 7/3/12 at 1:24pm

While I'm a little trepidatious about someone with your screen-name being "confused" about where to insert your Darblet (hint: not there!)...

...I think it's generally recommended for the Darblet to be placed after all source devices, VPs included, so it's just before your source. That's how I, and most others use it.

Well I guess I'm going to be the one dissenting voice in this thread. I got one though AVS and tried it out for a week or so. My sources would be Blu and netflix streams. In playing with the unit on settings of 45% to 55% (HD) most of the time I could not see any improvement to the picture (when switching the on/off mode with the remote.) The few times I did I was mixed on if I liked the changes or not.

Some of the effects it seemed to have on the picture that I did not like.

Some of the shots of hair in CG movies it seemed like it removed 'Ani-Aliasing' and the look of some of the hair became jagged.

Some of the lesser streams it seemed to make compression issues more pronounced than when on. (which makes sense based on what it is doing.)

And the final nail for me was watching How to Train Your Dragon in 3D, with it in the chain ghosting was worse than with it removed. (even on off setting.) and when it was in processing mode, caused more artifacts and issues with frame interpolation. (which I can't watch 3D with out at least the low setting to help remove the flicker with 3D.

It really came down to I think I like how my HW30 looks and I'm sitting close enough that some of the 'sharpening' effect makes the loss of some of the smooth edges on fine lines too noticeable. (I don't want to notice the pixels just the picture as a whole.) ;-)

To me it was not worth the money and the issues introduced.

Although I do think I liked the effect more when I looked from my equipment stack which is another 10' behind where I sit. (I sit right under the projector lens. on a 92" FireHawk screen.)

So it's not for everyone. Maybe if I was a sports watcher I would like it more, but the issues with the frame interpolation which is another case where I hear one wants to use that, might also be a problem.

Just my thoughts and what I saw on my setup. Mine will be heading back to AVS so they should have a used one for sale before long. ;-)

I have to admit sometimes I am not so sure I want to keep it. Especially with the problems it creates in my dual projector setup. I never thought my image wasn't sharp in the first place. I also find I keep fiddling with the settings. Plus sometimes it doesn't have any effect with some scenes. I also have noticed that on or off in a lot of cases I don't see much of a difference.

However some days i like it more than other days on Directv. It really depends on the image quality. I will hold on to it for now but at some point I will remove it and decide if I miss it. If not I will probably sell it.

Over time I've been dialling my Darblet back - now at 30% HD (JVC RS35). Because of the way it sharpens detailed areas and leaves softer areas alone I find myself, at higher settings, being aware that some objects seem too sharp compared to others and find the differences a little distracting. I'm also aware of a certain artificiality above this setting. Perhaps I will dial back even further over time, but right now 30% is my sweet spot and still very much appreciate the resulting image.

I also have found that 40 percent was the highest I could accept and
have since gone down to 35 percent but still find it a plus overall.

My first Darblet burned up and I was sent a second one. The second one only worked one night with an HDMI detective and I could not get it to work again no matter what I tried. My money was refunded after I returned the product. I think you can get a lot of the same effect if your using a HTPC and have it in photography mode. I noticed sharpening to the display (VW85) but was not overwhelmed by it. I had my computer in the previously related mode already.

HTPC can't be used for all sources though.

What do you mean burned up? Did it actually smoke or did it just stop working? Also what burned up? Power supply?

I want to add that since we have started shipping product, we have received (2) Darblets back to our lab for failure reasons.
The first was for a catastrophic failure of an HDMI support chip on the circuit board and the second was for an apparent complete blanking of the firmware/software.

Both cases are unfortunate, and the second case is particularly odd, because:
1) the Darblet boards are delivered with our firmware pre-installed so that the CM can test for video passing during their testing, prior to the Darblets being delivery to us - even if a Darblet slipped completely past our in house testing, it would have DVP code in it and pass video. If the Darblet passes video, our DVP firmware will work as the code will not function separably.
2) we re-flash the Darblets ourselves (with the latest firmware, as we are always in development for efficiency, right up to shipping) and retest with a paired power supply - power or intermittent function should show up
3) the Darblet and power supply have been heat stress/burned in - DOA or problem power supplies and boards would be identified.
4) each Darblet is packed with the remote control that it is tested with.

We are interested to know what "could not get it to work" means. Particularly if it worked at first, then stopped working. I take it to mean that the firmware/software has blanked somehow. We have only the one case of a Darblet being returned in a blank condition and we don't understand how a Darblet would get blanked in the field.

In the case of the returned Darblet that was blanked, a re-flash was quite successful in restoring its function and we are using it without issue in our lab.

-DD

On my "humble" 55" Samsung TV the effects on good material are limited.
However I find the Darblet does a good job on really bad video, like old movies- sometimes doing +60 in yellow sharpens them up.
There are side effects, but generally I prefer it to sharpness problems...
And it's a one button solution!

Using it between my Edge scaler and the TV.

Artifact or Accurate?

I've been following this thread from the beginning and have read every post. What I find interesting is that most of the posts on AVS adhere to the "purist" view that the image must always be as close as possible to what the director actually shot and/or intended. For example, members have been arguing ad nauseum on hundreds of threads about whether or not there is a slight green tint in the exteneded LOTR - FOTR disk. If someone ever suggests he/she likes a manipulated image here he/she is flamed unmercifully.

Yet here we are talking about a device that definitely adds some artifact that can be masked or hidden at lower levels but is generally present. Yet most users are willing to accept the artifact if it makes the picture sharper and/or adds some "depth." In other words, a pleasing image is preferred over an accurate image.

What if the director wanted a "softer effect" or didn't want the actor's facial pock marks to be visible or was trying to get an effect that has less sharpness and/or less depth than this device delivers? Why does this device get a pass but others that induce artifacts are flogged?

I personally don't care but I find this change in attitude to be somewhat hypocritcal and amusing.

It's the reasonable position to take, and indeed the position I'm sure many of us advocate, but once you've seen the Darblet in action it's more difficult to argue against it.

But that does then open up the enhancement can of worms... However, if we assume that the blu ray holds the Director's intent, then it could be argued that a soft projector obscures that intent and that if the Darblet allows you to sharpen the image you get closer to how the image should look... The sharpening of the Darblet, at low settings, seems to come without any objectionable side effects.

After the last comment I made that I am not quite sure I will keep tha darblet...well last night I watched the fireworks show in Boston and was amazed at how realistic it looked with the darblet. I even cranked to up from 40% to 70% and it really felt like I was standing there in person. Wow!

So no more comments from me that I might sell it. It really does flush out all the detail in any image.

I've had the same debate with myself, but after using the Darblet for a while, I'm of the feeling that it doesn't so much "add" anything to the picture that wasn't there before, as it helps to bring out detail that is inherently there in the picture but was harder to see before. I would equate the difference to upgrading your HDTV/display to a better model that does a superior job of resolving the image. If you toggle the device on and off, it looks as if the picture snaps into focus with the Darblet on, and slips out of focus with the Darblet off.

Would you argue that it's a director's intent that you watch his movie on a crappy TV or an out-of-focus projector? Doubtful that's often the case.

The Darblet can't add detail that isn't present in the source. So if the director shoots a scene in soft focus, or uses a mist filter, or does something in post-production to soften the image, you're still going to get a soft picture.

Darblet not working with JVC HD 750

I bought three darblets. I tested all three with my sony qualia 004.
I am using one. I sent one overseas, to be used with a JVC HD750. It gives a black screen with the jvc.
The same unit worked with a Sim2 projector and a LCD flat panel TV, just fine, when they tested it there.
Has anyone used the darblet with that model of JVC?

BTW, I think the dablet is an excellent processor. I enjoy using it every day. I am disappointed that the unit I sent overseas did not work.
Edited by audvid - 7/5/12 at 10:47am

We will put that projector in our matrix of ??? devices and get back to you, we will have to work on reproducing the problem.

Can you list everything else in the chain?

-DD

I installed a Darbee unit shortly before upgrading my DirecTV receiver from a HR21 to a Home Media Center. (This new HD DVR allows you to watch recorded programming on four separate TVs at the same time, including the one directly connected to the HMC. It can record up to 10 programs simultaneously and has a 1TB storage capacity.)

Now, whenver one switching channels, the monitor becomes confused and loses the HDMI connection. It can be restored by either (a) switching to another HDMI input on the Sony STR-DA5600ES AVR and then switching back to the satellite receiver or (b) removing the HDMI cable from the Darbee in the chain and then putting it back. A programmed Griffin HDMI Detective unit failed to solve the problem. The prior HD DVR worked OK.

This device is indeed life changing. Before I got one, I never ever ever said in my HT, Darbee off, Darbee on, Darbee off, Darbee on. Now I say it all the time. Go figure.

My feeling on this is that on any source including Bluray I will adjust the picture with what I have available to adjust it with, to what makes me most happy visually with what is there as long as color is accurate. Specifically I am after as much realism and depth to digital projected images as I can get, and if I do that to where nothing bothering me of a negative sort then fine. If it's slightly different then I decide between the tradeoffs its no big deal. But I also project and display a lot more than just bluray movies....HDTV, sports, still photography. Because what is there varies so wildly film to film and transfer to transfer. And I find all the angst and guilt about doing anything whatsoever that might change some pixels "from what the director intended" to be "wow are you kidding me"?. I imagine if you paid your money in the theater and even better, now as well with buying the Bluray disc of the same production....that he or she doesn't care really all that much. Theatrical presentation much more so likely to them, since home displays are all over the map too. So much hand wringing! But that's just me.
Edited by RonF - 7/5/12 at 3:19pm

All this talk of trying to display what the director intended is really foolish:cool:

Take a projector 10 years old and show any movie.......
Take that same movie and display it with any new projector from today, the results will be 100% better and different to the 10 year old projector.

Its no different with sound, the same movie played on a $500.00 setup will sound amazing on a $10,000.00 setup.
Still the same movie, the director doesn't have any control over this.

Look at all the mono films that were shown in cinemas years ago and have since today been cleaned up and enhanced to 5.1 or 7.1. The director didn't intend them to be DTS MA or the rest, but its still heaps better than it was.

The Darbee Darblet is no different to the situations above....
It doesn't change the way a movie was intended, its more like an inexpensive way of upgrading your HD TV or projector to a higher end model. It will make a $1000.00 or $16,000.00 projector look better!

I think the Darblet is "magic accessory" that anyone who cares about their image needs in their arsenal of tricks!

I have spent thousands and thousands over the years doing everything to improve my screen presentations, the Darblet has been a very small price to pay for a truly breathtaking image.

Gary Reber's review of the Darblet is now available in the digital version of the July/Aug, Wide Screen Review, page 24.

I don't have rights to post the pages, so go get the edition and read this review.

I will post his set up.

"conducted side-by-side demonstrations on our reference JVC
Professional DLA-RS65 projection system and dnp denmark Sigma
Screen (Rear Projection) sourced from an OPPO BDP-95 3D Blu-ray
Disc™ player and a Classé SSP-880 Controller. As would be expected,
this display system is perfectly calibrated, as it is used to evaluate the
picture quality of 2D and 3D Blu-ray titles."

He liked the Darblet...a lot.

-DD

I have had the Darblet for 6 weeks now and since the minute i hooked it up all i can say is WOW . I love it. it has been flawless since day 1. My setup is Sony bdps350 + directv hr21 into Onkyo 705 out to (3 ft hdmi )Darblet (15 ft hdmi) into Epson 8500ub shooting onto Carada BW 120 inch screen. Just watched African cats on bluray and it blew me away with the depth it adds.

Started off at about 40-45 full pop, dialed it up to 60 full pop and thats where its stayed for weeks. I will agree the better the source material the more it adds, blu rays are amazing with it but i dont see as dramatic an improvement with Directv material.

Thank you Darbee.
Edited by TITANS1 - 7/5/12 at 8:10pm

Larry, so you're saying it is available now to read in the digital version on line? I have the physical print subscription and get the on line access. But when I go there and log in, then search in "Equipment" for Darblet....the drop down for issue only goes to 167 and July/Aug appears to be issue 168. Maybe I am doing something wrong. Anyone else able to access this yet?

Full pop! Wow! I like the hd mode best...it does a better job with fine detail. Fine detail in backgrounds scenes just look better. Have you tried the lesser hd mode and used a higher setting like 100+?

No but once football season starts i will be playing around with the settings to see what else this great lil box can do. Thanks for the suggestion.

Apparently all the link functions are not fully created. Issue 168 is not linked to the Equipment Search page.

Use this link to the WSR website, and scan through the article links until you see the Darblet Review link.
http://www.widescreenreview.com/wsr_issuedetail.php?current

-DD

The vast majority seem to like the look of Darbee vision but I still wonder about it.

Gary Reber really likes the result but he does raise the question of the possible compromise of seeing what you weren't meant to see. That's all I'm wondering about. Did the director and cinematographer want you to see the actual bulbs inside the sign or did they really want us to see the glow of an illuminated sign without the bulb detail?

I'm very interested in trying one just because so many rave about it but I still wonder if we're missing what the director intended.

Wow Larry......he sure did like it. I bet his last paragraph made Paul, you and everyone else at Darbee very happy and proud. Worth the wait....major props!

Get a Darblet, set it up and decide for yourself.

AVS and DVn have a generous return policy.

-DD