or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Processors › Darbee vision darblet
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Darbee vision darblet - Page 31

post #901 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post

+1. I placed an order this week for a delivery in the 2nd half of July (currently on backorder). Now I am wondering if I need to cancel and wait for the updated batch. ____Axel


You don't need to wait to place your order. All future shipments will have the "fix," integrated.

-DD

 

Thanks, DD!

____

Axel

post #902 of 7863
with an update needed on such a new product. How quick, easy, and cost efficient will the company make the process?
post #903 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

So, Jonathan, are you recommending this then? I'm still loving eshift in part because it seems to add dimensionality to the image but this takes it to another level I guess....

I am still "reviewing" it, so to speak but it has a tentative yes from me right now. So far, tamed to the right level, I am impressed with it. It actually looks to me, to have some aspects that are similar in implementation to the JVC e-shift. In particular e-shift uses extra pixels to emphasise the contrast at object boundaries. What I am finding, interestingly, is that the Darblet seemst to complement the e-shift rather than conflicting, or over-powering it in some way.
post #904 of 7863
Still having an RS50 I am soooo anticipating seeing it with a 55 and eShift, due to everyone's description of how well they work together. I have one final seating module to add which will allow screen width closeness back to 11 feet from 8.5' wide 16x9 . It's universally being reported eShift allows that close seating in spades with only the 1080P source and that on its own it adds greatly improved apparent detail and depth.
post #905 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Still having an RS50 I am soooo anticipating seeing it with a 55 and eShift, due to everyone's description of how well they work together. I have one final seating module to add which will allow screen width closeness back to 11 feet from 8.5' wide 16x9 . It's universally being reported eShift allows that close seating in spades with only the 1080P source and that on its own it adds greatly improved apparent detail and depth.

I have the JVC RS65 with a 140" scope screen, the e-shift certainly allowed me to get closer and in fact it actually made my front row the best row in the house!

When I added the Darblet it enhanced the image even more than it was, the depth, detail, contrast and sharpness is "out of this world" I sit in awe everytime I show a movie. The Darblet is one of the best things to come to HT, thats for sure. I cant run without it now, if I turn it off the image looks flat and lacks life!
post #906 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

What I am finding, interestingly, is that the Darblet seemst to complement the e-shift rather than conflicting, or over-powering it in some way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I have the JVC RS65 with a 140" scope screen, the e-shift certainly allowed me to get closer and in fact it actually made my front row the best row in the house!

When I added the Darblet it enhanced the image even more than it was, the depth, detail, contrast and sharpness is "out of this world" I sit in awe everytime I show a movie. The Darblet is one of the best things to come to HT, thats for sure. I cant run without it now, if I turn it off the image looks flat and lacks life!

my thoughts are the same on this topic - the Darby makes changes in certain areas to increase the PQ that the e-shift doesn't - and vice versa. 2 different technologies that work surprisingly well together.

I've done some extensive A/B with the darby on the JVC-RS55, Sony HW30 and the BenQ W7000. IMO, it looks the best when combined with the e-shift - especially for close seating to my 142" screen.
post #907 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

my thoughts are the same on this topic - the Darby makes changes in certain areas to increase the PQ that the e-shift doesn't - and vice versa. 2 different technologies that work surprisingly well together.
I've done some extensive A/B with the darby on the JVC-RS55, Sony HW30 and the BenQ W7000. IMO, it looks the best when combined with the e-shift - especially for close seating to my 142" screen.

Drool! RS55/RS65 sounds like they have an awesome image...especially with a Darblet!
post #908 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I am still "reviewing" it, so to speak but it has a tentative yes from me right now. So far, tamed to the right level, I am impressed with it. It actually looks to me, to have some aspects that are similar in implementation to the JVC e-shift. In particular e-shift uses extra pixels to emphasise the contrast at object boundaries. What I am finding, interestingly, is that the Darblet seemst to complement the e-shift rather than conflicting, or over-powering it in some way.

Yep, that's what some of us have been saying.

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, I find the Darblet to have a more aggressive approach or look, particularly as it is pumped up higher and higher - I start to notice an unnaturally harsh look to the image and exaggerated high-light areas, especially on faces. So i find I have to dial it back to a more subtle point - though one that clearly makes a difference in increasing sharpness and "pop." The JVC E-shift MPC settings, as you know, do something similar, but different enough to work with the Darblet...and also more subtle than the Darblet. So once I've dialed back the Darblet to where I don't notice the harshness effect, I dial up the MPC settings and especially at "3" setting the image sharpness snaps into focus, but without the harshness of pushing the Darblet higher. At that point the image just looks amazing!

With the addition of a new Panamorph UH480 anamorphic lens I'm not using more screen space and a bigger scope image, with closer seating distance. It's hard to believe the image quality, in terms of image sharpness and detail I'm getting at 125" wide from about 9 feet viewing distance with this whole combo. I never thought it would have been possible before. It's almost like there is no longer a cost to making the image bigger and bigger in terms of sharpness and detail. (I was watching the UFC tonight in HD and first had it at around 102" diag 16:9 with the MPC/Darblet combo. Later on I made it much larger to about 115" diag and to my surprise if anything it looked even sharper as it got bigger, like ever more detail/clarity was there to see. Wild.)

As far as the conversation about accuracy and artifacts, I'm still trying to decide on settings. I watched BladeRunner and 2001 with the MPC/Darblet on and they were astounding. In terms of clarity, details and dimensionality - at a new level than I've seen before. It's just that sometimes, in some shots, it can strike me as "too clear." Sort of "ok, now I'm seeing the processing in action...no way in hell that image was ever that sharp in a theater or anywhere else" kind of thing. It CAN end up giving more of an HD video look vs film to film-based sources, bordering on the soap opera effect at some points. It's those take-me-out-of-the-film moments that I suspect I'll either eventually get over, or will force me to dial the processing down some more. But when it works it's so addictive.
Edited by R Harkness - 7/8/12 at 12:48am
post #909 of 7863
Thanks Jonathan and other "e-shifters". I haven't been following this thread much (altho I was aware of it because I come to this forum being a Radiance owner). I guess I'll have to give Mark a call and get one on order and see it first hand.
post #910 of 7863
Does ARC still work with the Darblet connected between an ARC compatible receiver and an ARC compatible HDMI input on a TV?

Thanks
post #911 of 7863
I think what the e shift does, scale any image to 4hd, and present that number of pixels to ones eyes by flashing sequentially two 1080p frames from those 4hd pixels, by shifting the second frame down and over 1 /4, overlapping the pixels to recreate the 4hd, has nothing whatsoever to do with contrast enhancement. MTF is in part a measurement of contrast resolution and while eshift creates 4hd pixels allowing one to sit closer without seeing pixel spacing (indeed eshift through overlap eliminates all but a tiny amount of spacing between 4 pixels), it actually reduces the sharpness a tad or the resolution of contrast. The Darbee increases the contrast at transition points and restores and indeed adds an increment to what eshift loss. You guys should see it operate on a true 4hd or 4K panel.
post #912 of 7863
Mark,

We JVC owners are talking about the added "MPC" processing on the projector, not just the E-shift. Though, there can be some confusion - some people seem to refer to "E-shift" when they mean the additional MPC processing (perhaps because the MPC processing is only available when the E-shift is turned on. Some professional reviewers have been guilty of this, talking about the added sharpness of the E-shift, when what they were seeing was added sharpness by the MPC processing ON TOP of the E-shift).

While the E-shift isn't true 4K in terms of physical pixels/input, it is apparently "true" 4K in terms of the amount of pixels ultimately created. And it is apparently the availability of those extra pixels that makes the special MPC processing possible (somehow using those extra pixels
to enhance contrast in a way that does not carry the costs when only regular 1080p is available). This is why the MPC processing only is available once E-shift is engaged.

Before I got the Darblet I was already enjoying a similar effect from the additional MPC processing on the JVC RS55 - a definite move forward in image detail, clarity and 3D vibe. The Darblet addition helps even more.
post #913 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Mark,
We JVC owners are talking about the added "MPC" processing on the projector, not just the E-shift. Though, there can be some confusion - some people seem to refer to "E-shift" when they mean the additional MPC processing (perhaps because the MPC processing is only available when the E-shift is turned on. Some professional reviewers have been guilty of this, talking about the added sharpness of the E-shift, when what they were seeing was added sharpness by the MPC processing ON TOP of the E-shift).
While the E-shift isn't true 4K in terms of physical pixels/input, it is apparently "true" 4K in terms of the amount of pixels ultimately created. And it is apparently the availability of those extra pixels that makes the special MPC processing possible (somehow using those extra pixels
to enhance contrast in a way that does not carry the costs when only regular 1080p is available). This is why the MPC processing only is available once E-shift is engaged.
Before I got the Darblet I was already enjoying a similar effect from the additional MPC processing on the JVC RS55 - a definite move forward in image detail, clarity and 3D vibe. The Darblet addition helps even more.

Indeed...and just to quote from JVC's own information on e-shift

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/tech_desc.jsp?model_id=MDL102123&feature_id=02
Quote:
This enhancement improves edge transitions, eliminates aliasing and stair-stepping, and increases contrast in detailed areas.
post #914 of 7863

Have Sony1000 rather than a JVC, but I'm also enjoying the Darblet effect.    I perceive it to be primarily a contrast enhancer, which seems to make the pic look sharper.    This makes an excellent combination with the Sony's 'true' 4K display.

post #915 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

You don't need to wait to place your order. All future shipments will have the "fix," integrated.
-DD

This is the post I've been waiting for. I will be ordering mine tomorrow. From what I've read, the Darbee + Lumagen Radiance + JVC combination is superb. I can't wait to get this into the system!

To chime in on the above discussion (on the previous page, I believe) of alignment of the Darbee's capabilities with the directors' intent, I think the movies are mastered on processing equipment that far exceed the capabilities of anything available in the home (until the file is converted to 1080p for Blu Ray disc), so what the Director gives his final approval for is probably still sharper than anything available in the home. If any thing--and this is just an opinion here--the Darbee likely brings home consumers that much closer to the directors' intent with the increased clarity. I'm very excited to be taking this step.
post #916 of 7863
I saw a post that the Darbee had problems with a JVC 750 which is approx. the same as an RS20 projector. Has the problem with this projector been cleared up? I'm also using an Anthem D2v audio'vido processor along with a Oppo 83 blu ray player. I'm also wondering if there are any issues using the Anthem with the Darbee.

Thanks,
Ken
post #917 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Indeed...and just to quote from JVC's own information on e-shift
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/tech_desc.jsp?model_id=MDL102123&feature_id=02

I stand corrected and will now consider the e shift process as including what evidently is a very complex scaling alg to create the two flashed 1080p frames created within the JVC processor. When observing e shift vs 1080p from the JVC RS55 and RS65 I have always preferred the picture with the e shift on. The picture simply looks to me more 3 dimensional which would be explained by enhancing the contrast transitions. In addition by adding a pixel between two pixels close but differing in contrast, the additional pixel say an average of the two adjoining would add contrast detail. But the real genius of the JVC frames would be in how they deal with large contrast differences between two pixels.

For what it's worth, while I prefer the e shift image I have always felt it looked a tad less sharp than the 1080p frame before scaling. This observation may indeed be false because the image just looks less sharp without the jaggies et al. In any event, the Darbees process enhances the contrast differentials at transitions further with a net result of appearing to make the picture sharper and having even greater depth.
Edited by AV Science Sales 4 - 7/9/12 at 7:06am
post #918 of 7863
I am having no trouble with my Darblet but I want to send in my unit for a firmware fix immediately. How do I go about doing that and what is the procedure i must follow? Please be specific because I do not want to make a mistake I am going to go through withdrawal as it is. Please advise
post #919 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I stand corrected and will now consider the e shift process as including what evidently is a very complex scaling alg to create the two flashed 1080p frames created within the JVC processor. W!hen observing e shift vs 1080p from the JVC RS55 and RS65 I have always preferred the picture w,itch the e shift on. The picture simply looks to me more 3 dimensional which would be e plainer by the processing enhancing the. Contrast transitions. In addition by adding a pixel between two pixels close but differing in contrast, the additional pixel say an ever age of the two adjoining would add contrast detail. But the real genius of the JVC frames would be in how they deal with large contrast differences between two pixels.
For what it's worth, while I prefer the e shift image I have always felt it looked a Ted less sharp than the 1080p frame before scaling. This observation may indeed be false because the image just looks less sharp without the jaggies et al. In any event, the Darbees process enhances the contrast differentials at transitions further with a net result of appearing to make the picture sharper and having even greater depth.

Mark, Your comments and observations are some of the most insightful on this thread, to date.

Hope your eye is healed up soon!
post #920 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

"Freakishly small" refers to the amount of silicon required when our processing logic is fully optimized in custom silicon, ie. logic in an existing SOC.
-DD

I have no idea and would not attempt to guess how that Darbee algorithm works but I am not surprised. Examples of high-clock (for realtime) but low silicon requirement algorithms would be those which are recursive or highly iterative. Almost any kind of real-time video processing is highly recursive or iterative, so the chances are, that it could be adopted fairly easily into existing video processors like Lumagens as long as the clock speed is sufficiently fast for the realtime processing. I doubt memory contraints are any issue as a comprehensive video buffer is already there.
post #921 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDiMura View Post

I am having no trouble with my Darblet but I want to send in my unit for a firmware fix immediately. How do I go about doing that and what is the procedure i must follow? Please be specific because I do not want to make a mistake I am going to go through withdrawal as it is. Please advise

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet/780#post_22172264
post #922 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDiMura View Post

I am having no trouble with my Darblet but I want to send in my unit for a firmware fix immediately. How do I go about doing that and what is the procedure i must follow? Please be specific because I do not want to make a mistake I am going to go through withdrawal as it is. Please advise

If you are having no troubles, there is nothing that the "fix" will do for you to warrant suffering the withdrawls.

-DD
post #923 of 7863
My Darblet is having the RGB color space issue and a
intermittent HDMI handshake issue with my JVC projector.
Also the power cable where it connects to the Darblet is not
secure and seems loose inside.A light tap to the cable will cause
the unit to power off and then back on.Please advise as to how and
where to send this in for repair.
post #924 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

If you are having no troubles, there is nothing that the "fix" will do for you to warrant suffering the withdrawls.
-DD


Yes I know but I really would like the latest firmware installed. Do you have an eta on when you will be accepting units back for firmware upgrades?
post #925 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I've had the same debate with myself, but after using the Darblet for a while, I'm of the feeling that it doesn't so much "add" anything to the picture that wasn't there before, as it helps to bring out detail that is inherently there in the picture but was harder to see before. I would equate the difference to upgrading your HDTV/display to a better model that does a superior job of resolving the image. If you toggle the device on and off, it looks as if the picture snaps into focus with the Darblet on, and slips out of focus with the Darblet off.
Would you argue that it's a director's intent that you watch his movie on a crappy TV or an out-of-focus projector? Doubtful that's often the case.
The Darblet can't add detail that isn't present in the source. So if the director shoots a scene in soft focus, or uses a mist filter, or does something in post-production to soften the image, you're still going to get a soft picture.

Josh,
Enjoyed your Darbee review on Hi-Def Digest! I'll definitely order one now. I was waiting to see what your final take would be (as I'm a "straight wire w/ gain" old school type guy too).
Hey - did you change projectors from the RS35 to the RS40???
post #926 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbeeDr View Post

If you are having no troubles, there is nothing that the "fix" will do for you to warrant suffering the withdrawls.
-DD

DD with the way everybody here upgrades equipment we have to make sure everything will work with future source components and displays.
post #927 of 7863
I have to say that the lack of future customer installable firmware updates gives me some pause. HDMI doesn't exactly have a stellar/robust reputation and what works today may not work tomorrow.
post #928 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I have to say that the lack of future customer installable firmware updates gives me some pause. HDMI doesn't exactly have a stellar/robust reputation and what works today may not work tomorrow.

That's a valid concern, but here's why I ordered one today. It's less than $300, and there are a lot of testimonies of this thing enhancing the picture in good ways. With the color space bug having been worked out, etc., I felt it a good roll of the dice. Assuming good results here, and feeling the chances are very good of that, the product isn't going to get less expensive, and at some point maybe it'll only be available inside other processors should licensing be the way it goes.
post #929 of 7863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

DD with the way everybody here upgrades equipment we have to make sure everything will work with future source components and displays.

Our policy is to make customers happy. We are not going to decide for you, whether you need the fix.
smile.gif
-DD
post #930 of 7863
DD can you please post the process for sending the DarbeeVision for the upgrade?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Processors › Darbee vision darblet