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Official 2012 Sharp LC-XXLE640U/XXC6400U - Page 2

post #31 of 1345
I picked up the 52" version (LC-52LE640U) on an open box special a couple of weeks ago. So far, so good with the set but like all goods it is not perfect.

My Sharp unit is replacing a 37" Westinghouse LVM-37w1 1080p monitor. The old set had no onboard tuner. My wife hated having to boot up a second box just to watch OTA-TV. The Sharp solves this problem quite nicely and its tuner is excellent. It handles our Houston (comcast) clear-QAM channels nicely.

Here's what I'm using it for, in order of frequency of use:

1) HTPC display @ 1920x1080 via HDMI. Web surfing + video content.
2) Front end for a gen 1 Apple TV via HDMI (720p iTunes content and XBMC).
3) HDTV via clear-QAM (local channels only from local cable provider).

A 52" panel is so much larger than the 37" it replaced that the visual comparison is slightly unfair. Visually at this point I am very happy with the unit as an upgrade to my older westy display. The westy had vertical banding issues on black or any other solid-color screens. The Sharp unit fixes most of that but replaces it with what I will call slight "ponding" where the entire panel is not homogeneously dark on completely black screens. For me even in dark movies it does not cause a noticeable effect but if I go looking for it using my HTPC with bitmaps I can see it.

There have been no noticeable input lag issues with this set, but my gaming use has been extremely limited.

The remote is nice, very much an upgrade from my old set. It is all to easy to accidentally hit the Netflix app button and launch their app unexpectedly. Beyond that the layout is reasonable. I like the "favorite channels" buttons the unit has - a very nice touch. The "Universal Remote" capabilities of the remote are almost laughably bad but I wasn't expecting it to be a real universal remote. I did expect the remotes "Audio" function to control more than Sharp's audio equipment. I use an Onkyo receiver and it's nowhere mentioned in the remote's capabilities. If you expect the remote to only control your VCR (yes, VCR) and BD/DVD/LD player in addition to the TV then you probably won't be disappointed.

The digital image processing that is enabled out-of-the-box drove me nuts. Even my wife (not an AV snob) asked why everything looked like it was a clay-animation or stop-motion video. I've gone through the settings and turned off all of the imaging processing the set has. That makes things much better; the closer the set gets to a dump 1080p panel the better. Kudos to Sharp for making the set remember my settings for every input and remembering the settings across turning the unit on and off and even unplugging it. This is one of the main reasons I stayed far far away from some other brands.

Philosophically speaking I see zero value add in basically all of the image processing modern sets have. Sets should trust the HD sources - sources know the content better than the set does.

I have the Sharp set connected to the internet via a wired connection. The set has WiFi capability but since my WiFi router is mounted right next to the set it was easy for me to wire it in. I've updated the set's firmware and watched one a few Netflix items over the internet connection. The wired works great for these purposes but I haven't tried WiFi - I assume WiFi works fine too. I have tried to get the DLNA capabilities (play photos, video, and music off the network) of the set to work, unsuccessfully. I think my DLNA server (Ubuntu Linux) is the problem here and not the set. I've heard Windows 7 systems should work with this set but I haven't tried it yet.

I tinkered with controlling the set over TCP/IP from a computer as the manual specifies. This works surprisingly well using Ubuntu and Net Cat (nc) even though it is ridiculously geeky. It's hard to imagine using this in a home, however. I'm sure this feature is intended for commercial installations with some kind of centralized management system for several displays.

I have noticed something I do not like about this set:

The set appears to not pass Dolby Digital 5.1 brought in via an HDMI input out through its optical audio output. It looks like sources of 5.1 that are not the on-board ATSC/QAM tuner get passed through the set as digital PCM audio (and not 5.1) out the optical audio output.

My receiver only has only two digital inputs: one optical and one coaxial. The Sharp set only has optical digital audio output which means my lone fiber cable now goes from the Sharp set to the receiver. Before I had the Sharp I ran the fiber audio from my my media player (the apple TV) directly to the receiver and used component video to connect the media player to my panel.

When watching movies from my media player in my old setup my receiver would switch it's display to "Dolby D" when playing movies. It was obviously playing 5.1 digital content this way. Today with the media player patched into the TV via HDMI and the TV feeding audio to the receiver over fiber my receiver's display never switches to "Dolby D". I've also tested this from my HTPC and it behaves the same way; 5.1 audio content does not get passed through the set to via it's digital output. So far I've watched two films in pro-logic mode on my receiver - I don't like this at all.

I'm thinking at this point I'm going to route my media player and HTPC audio lines back directly to my receiver and patch the Sharp in over analog audio. We watch much more digital content that broadcast content and I'd rather have the movies in 5.1 than whatever we watch on television. The risk run by doing this is exposing lag that the set may have. Hopefully passing through Dobly D to the digital output is something that will get addressed in a future firmware update for the set.

I'm curious what other owners of the LC-xxLE640x units are seeing with audio. Can you pass 5.1 dolby-digital through your set in through HDMI and out via the set's digital fiber output? If so please share your setup so I can mirror it.

Cheers,
--Adam
post #32 of 1345
Hi Adam:

The TV will pass 5.1 audio from the optical output, but you have to select DD 5.1 in the menu. It does not work as a pass through device. You could get an optical to coax converter for the Apple box.

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...FUGo4Aod_2hCYg

From page 30 of the owners manual:

You can output digital audio to an AV amplifier or
similar device whose DIGITAL AUDIO INPUT terminal
is connected to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT terminal
on the TV. Please select an audio output format
compatible with the audio format of the program you
are watching and the equipment connected.
PCM: The optical output terminal outputs audio signal
in PCM form. If your digital audio system does not
support Dolby Digital, select "PCM".

Dolby Digital: The optical output terminal outputs audio
signal in Dolby Digital form. It reproduces sound from
surround program of digital.
post #33 of 1345
@myoda - Thanks for the details and the link to the converter box. I might go that route in the future.

I had already setup the TV to pass DD5.1 from it's own tuner. From that I assumed it would also pass DD5.1 audio in from HDMI sources. That's rather unfortunate, I don't understand why the unit can't do it.

I read on (some other forums) that there is some negotiation via HDMI between the source and playback device about the playback device's capabilities and that most panels, including those from manufacturers other than Sharp, also have this problem.

That seems like a real short coming.

If we can configure this TV to output DD5.1 from its tuner, effectively telling the set that there is a DD5.1 capable device on the other end of the optical link, then the TV should inform it's HDMI connected devices that it is capable of playing back DD5.1 even if that means disabling on-board audio and passing the DD5.1 through the digital output to the off-board equipment. It seems silly that we have all these HDMI inputs on the set and it can't even MUX the audio streams at high quality. One discussion I read mentioned that this is done because the set may not be able to de-mux the DD5.1 stream down to its own two speakers. That doesn't make sense because the set still plays audio out its two built in speakers even when it outputs DD5.1 over the optical from its own tuner..... sigh.

I'll re-wire my digital audio later this week so my media player again goes direct to my receiver.

As an update to users who have this set, or one in the family of sets, Sharp released a firmware update today (April 10, 2012) called version "213U1203281". There is no mention of this firmware or release notes for it on the Sharp USA site. My set prompted me if if wanted to update to this version and I said yes.

From what I can tall all this firmware version does is remove the Blockbuster application from the set. I'm not sure if any of the Blockbuster rental service customers were interested in buying this TV but if you were you might think again.

Cheers,
--Adam
post #34 of 1345
txhambone: You've won for the longest post in internet history!
post #35 of 1345
For those of you that don't like or use the 120Hz motion processing feature on this set, have you experienced what televisioninfo.com is reporting? ...

"The biggest offense is the motion processing on this unit. You have the option to watch film based content that is overly smooth with the 120Hz Fine Motion Enhanced feature on, or a super juddery picture with it off. Every now and again, the judder speeds up and looks interpolated, even with the motion processing off. This could be passable performance on a smaller television, but when the picture takes up most of the room, it’s hard not to notice a jerky video, followed by sections of super smoothness, only to return to jerkiness again. We could forgive poor color performance, but viewing this Sharp without the motion processing is very jarring."
post #36 of 1345
Could you guys please do an input lag test? This could be the perfect gaming tv with 3d. If you don't now how to do it let me know.
post #37 of 1345
got this the other day to replace my lc-6088un. set in a blacked out theatre room looks good so far ................
post #38 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by comp56 View Post

got this the other day to replace my lc-6088un. set in a blacked out theatre room looks good so far ................

With the 120Hz motion processing turned OFF, do you notice any stuttering or speedup + slowdown for broadcast video and/or movies? televisioninfo.com bashed this TV repeatedly in its review for this issue. With 120 motion turned OFF, I'm wondering if they had film mode turned ON and were trying to watch a 24p bluray movie which many reviews say this TV does not handle well, however, they said they tried turning off all processing which still resulted in "jerky video" which I can only assume was for any video frame rate.
post #39 of 1345
is this set edge lit or full array backlit? the 3D 745 is edge lit.

Best,
jeff
post #40 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruudboek View Post

Could you guys please do an input lag test? This could be the perfect gaming tv with 3d. If you don't now how to do it let me know.

The 640 series is not 3D capable.

Jason
post #41 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

is this set edge lit or full array backlit? the 3D 745 is edge lit.

Best,
jeff

With the exception of the 80 inch panels, all of the 70 inch displays are edge led.
post #42 of 1345
Hi Jason, I followed your settings journey in the 632 thread, and have seen you post here. We just received a 70_640, and I put in the CNET settings. Coming from a 6 year old 61' Samsung DLP, the soap opera effect we are experiencing on this Sharp is a new one for us. Any thoughts on what I can tinker with in the settings on this set to reduce/eliminate the SOE?

Thanks in advance.
post #43 of 1345
Hi that thanks for the reply. I went out to look at the new 70's and while was not looking at test patterns, I could not really see any flaws in normal programming material (720p input). There was a bit of contouring, but I could see no edge lit artifacts. My experience you can usually tweak the contouring down to a pretty low level. I'll be coming from a 73'' mits (circa 1998 rptv). I also was really looking for how bad the off axis viewing issues were. I was *very* pleasantly surprise how good it was, compared to the crt mits we're currently using. the 70 seemed much better than the 80 in this regard.

Also, with all the skews mits is rolling out this month to b&m's, is the main decision between 3d or 2d capability, followed by quatro versus non-quatro, then 120hz versus 240hz? In plasmas, you are forced to buy 3D (at least in panny's) to get good anti-glare coatings and better overall performance. Can anyone comment on this in the sharp 70'' er's? (note I have a 3d capable panny 50'' plasma in the bedroom and 3d capable bluray, but really have no interest in 3D).

Best,
jeff
post #44 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overscan View Post

Picked up a 60" model from costco a couple of weeks ago... been using the CNET settings for about the past week. It's my first LCD TV, finally moving up from a 32" HD CRT. I'm very happy with the color and picture quality. Not so thrilled about the quality of HD content available, most of what I've watched so far has had distracting macroblocking... OTA, blu-ray, Netflix streams.

My TV has noticeable clouding in the lower left hand part of the picture. It doesn't show up often while watching most content but I keep looking for it when the screen gets dark, so right now I'm finding it very distracting. It appears to be a problem where the minimum brightness for that part of the screen is a little brighter than the rest of the screen. It's only noticeable when that part of the screen is intended to be less than say 5% bright.

I'm attaching a picture taken during the day when the screen was picking up a lot of reflections. You can see the clouding in the lower left part of that picture, it's the blue-ish spot. That's about how bright it looks during viewing. The clouding looks worse as I move to the right.



I've also attached a picture taken in the dark that shows up a lot more flaws that are nearly invisible to the naked eye.



So I'm thinking of exchanging the TV, but that a PITA because I'll have to borrow a friend's truck and I'll need to figure out how to safely secure the old box back together once I drop the top back on. But before I go through all that... how much clouding should I expect? If I exchange the TV am I likely to get one with less clouding? I've never run into this on my LCD monitors, so I have no frame of reference.

I have the 640 myself and mine has no clouding. I think you just got a bad set. My picture is very uniform. My only complain is the off axis viewing isn't the greatest. you really need to be fairly close to straight in front of it to get the best picture.

Bill
post #45 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by pton57 View Post

Hi Jason, I followed your settings journey in the 632 thread, and have seen you post here. We just received a 70_640, and I put in the CNET settings. Coming from a 6 year old 61' Samsung DLP, the soap opera effect we are experiencing on this Sharp is a new one for us. Any thoughts on what I can tinker with in the settings on this set to reduce/eliminate the SOE?

Thanks in advance.

I'm using Jason's setting for the 632 on mine and I like them. CNet did a calibration in movie mode and I'm not all that happy with the look. Jason's Game mode settings seem to be very good on my set, not perfect. Out of the box you will get the soap opera effect. Try his game setting I think you will like them.
post #46 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by billlh View Post

I'm using Jason's setting for the 632 on mine and I like them. CNet did a calibration in movie mode and I'm not all that happy with the look. Jason's Game mode settings seem to be very good on my set, not perfect. Out of the box you will get the soap opera effect. Try his game setting I think you will like them.

I did some more research and ended up continuing with the CNET settings in Movie mode, but I adjusted the Motion Enhancement: 120Hz from High to Low. That did the trick. HD Cable and blu ray / dvd images now have a HD film look rather than HD video.

I will try his Game settings and see which I prefer.
post #47 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfas34 View Post

With the 120Hz motion processing turned OFF, do you notice any stuttering or speedup + slowdown for broadcast video and/or movies? televisioninfo.com bashed this TV repeatedly in its review for this issue. With 120 motion turned OFF, I'm wondering if they had film mode turned ON and were trying to watch a 24p bluray movie which many reviews say this TV does not handle well, however, they said they tried turning off all processing which still resulted in "jerky video" which I can only assume was for any video frame rate.

Actually my 88un had the SOE real bad with improper settings but this TV does not..........
post #48 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfas34 View Post

For those of you that don't like or use the 120Hz motion processing feature on this set, have you experienced what televisioninfo.com is reporting? ...

"The biggest offense is the motion processing on this unit. You have the option to watch film based content that is overly smooth with the 120Hz Fine Motion Enhanced feature on, or a super juddery picture with it off. Every now and again, the judder speeds up and looks interpolated, even with the motion processing off. This could be passable performance on a smaller television, but when the picture takes up most of the room, it's hard not to notice a jerky video, followed by sections of super smoothness, only to return to jerkiness again. We could forgive poor color performance, but viewing this Sharp without the motion processing is very jarring."

I bought the 52" set today for about $250 less than the going price - Best Buy's loss is my gain - and I'll have it hooked up in a few days. I'm stuck with it as an open item either way, but I'll let you know my honest opinion.

txhambone, thanks for your post, though I feel like I'm not sure what you're saying exactly. Does this pass DD5.1 through its optical out or not? This line from myoda confused me:

"The TV will pass 5.1 audio from the optical output, but you have to select DD 5.1 in the menu. It does not work as a pass through device."

Here's hoping it works for us since we can't take it back!
post #49 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by pton57 View Post

Hi Jason, I followed your settings journey in the 632 thread, and have seen you post here. We just received a 70_640, and I put in the CNET settings. Coming from a 6 year old 61' Samsung DLP, the soap opera effect we are experiencing on this Sharp is a new one for us. Any thoughts on what I can tinker with in the settings on this set to reduce/eliminate the SOE?

Thanks in advance.

Sorry, just noticed your post.

Film Mode is what gives you the Soap Opera Effect (where film looks like live action video), turn it off and you should be much happier.

Jason
post #50 of 1345
I recently purchased a LC-60LE640U/LC-60C6400U from Costco for a great price. As you know, it's not a full array set like the larger 70" 732U. I have the opportunity to get a 732 with the full array panel. Should I consider returning the 640? I've read the 732 has a better picture and there have been some problems documented with the 640. Ideally, I'd like to stay within my budget of $1500 to $2K. Thanks in advance
post #51 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancas View Post

I recently purchased a LC-60LE640U/LC-60C6400U from Costco for a great price. As you know, it's not a full array set like the larger 70" 732U. I have the opportunity to get a 732 with the full array panel. Should I consider returning the 640? I've read the 732 has a better picture and there have been some problems documented with the 640. Ideally, I'd like to stay within my budget of $1500 to $2K. Thanks in advance

Since you bought it at Costco, you have 90 days to play around with the set. I would suggest living with it for awhile, and see how it performs for you. I now have a lc-70le640 - after a 632, 2 732 units, an open item 632, and now a 640. I don't have any of the issues I had with the previous 4 sets: clouding, or a diamond like structure behind the picture. The only minor issue I have is some flashlighting in all 4 corners, but it's only noticeable when the screen is completely dark, and you have to really be looking for it. Other than that, I am quite pleased with the set, and the great service from Sharp.
post #52 of 1345
Myoda - I understand you returned the other sets over specific issues, but assuming that you had gotten sets that did not have the problems you mentioned, can you comment on picture quality, off angle viewing, etc. on the 732 and 632 vs the 640.

Looking to pick up a 70 in 6400 shortly but if I can find a 732 or 632, considering them as well.

Thanks.
post #53 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgrokkos View Post

Myoda - I understand you returned the other sets over specific issues, but assuming that you had gotten sets that did not have the problems you mentioned, can you comment on picture quality, off angle viewing, etc. on the 732 and 632 vs the 640.

Looking to pick up a 70 in 6400 shortly but if I can find a 732 or 632, considering them as well.

Thanks.

The specific issues were problems with clouding. The 640 seems not to exhibit that behavior. (see attached) Other than that, the color quality on the 5 panels that I've evaluated since January is actually very good. It's just hard to watch a hockey game with cotton puffs behind the ice - but your mileage may vary depending on how critical an eye you have.
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post #54 of 1345
More shots from this evening. I sometimes use the tv in the living room for a computer monitor. Over the air HD signals are my main source of commercial television. I find the quality of OTA is much better that satellite or most cable signals due to the lack of compression. Blu-ray looks outstanding on this entry level display. No issues with off-axis viewing as most of the time it's just me and my lovely spouse watching - at the most, she is 40 degrees from the center of the television. I'm finding that 640 series set has excellent black levels, and accurate color. Personally, I could not tell that much of a difference between a full array or newer edge led Quattron panel and a non Quattron panel. My wallet could...

This was a significant upgrade from my 5 year old Mits 65 inch DLP - I gained over a foot of depth back in my living room, and no fan noise. I'm surprised that I have not seen more reviews online about the 640/6400 series. It really delivers a fantastic picture (once calibrated properly), even for a purist on a budget like me. lol.
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post #55 of 1345
Thanks for the pictures myoda, I am debating on getting this 70 640u set, or the 847u set. there is about a grand difference between the two and i do not need 3d. the pictures you took of your set looks great! are these blu ray or just hd? The colors are very rich looking.
post #56 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdogmr View Post

Thanks for the pictures myoda, I am debating on getting this 70 640u set, or the 847u set. there is about a grand difference between the two and i do not need 3d. the pictures you took of your set looks great! are these blu ray or just hd? The colors are very rich looking.

They were shots from Imax Space Station, and the Disney WOW disc, both on blu-ray.
post #57 of 1345
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

More shots from this evening. I sometimes use the tv in the living room for a computer monitor. Over the air HD signals are my main source of commercial television. I find the quality of OTA is much better that satellite or most cable signals due to the lack of compression. Blu-ray looks outstanding on this entry level display. No issues with off-axis viewing as most of the time it's just me and my lovely spouse watching - at the most, she is 40 degrees from the center of the television. I'm finding that 640 series set has excellent black levels, and accurate color. Personally, I could not tell that much of a difference between a full array or newer edge led Quattron panel and a non Quattron panel. My wallet could...

This was a significant upgrade from my 5 year old Mits 65 inch DLP - I gained over a foot of depth back in my living room, and no fan noise. I'm surprised that I have not seen more reviews online about the 640/6400 series. It really delivers a fantastic picture (once calibrated properly), even for a purist on a budget like me. lol.

Is that a Sony DHG DVR I spy in your rack? Even with all of its quirks it's been a great OTA DVR, it's like one of the family. It'll be a sad day when it goes kapootz or TVGOS is dropped. Anyway, I've narrowed my TV search down to 2: the 52LE640 and the Samsung 50EH5300 which is due in June but comparable models are out now. The Samsung has the edge in many areas IMO but I keep coming back to the Sharp for its matte screen, bezel, and more natural picture... have always viewed Samsung's video as being over processed. I'm also looking for a decent audio performer. I've tried to demo the audio on the 640 at Best Buy and Sears and while it doesn't sound too bad but it's another thing to isolate it in a home setting. Even though you may use your HT audio, how do you like the audio from the 640? Does it sound like it's coming out of a tin can (as most Sony's do) or can it be tweaked to add a little warmth?
post #58 of 1345
The audio supplied by the speakers in this tv are a little tinny, but I don't use them. If you don't have a home theater system, I'd suggest a good sound bar and subwoofer.
post #59 of 1345
I just purchased the 60 inch version and this is my first LED set. I have an LCD and a plasma as well. I am not happy with the picture as it seems a bit washed out and I notice light reflections on the faces and foreheads of the actors. I am using the cnet settings listed in one of the earlier posts. I am actually not typically a "picky" viewer as I have had DLP in the past and never noticed rainbows etc. The reflections on the faces of the actors is driving me crazy. I am planning on returning the set unless this is just a settings issue. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated as I really don't want to return the set. Thanks.
post #60 of 1345
Pedbones,
you're refering I think to SOE (soap opera effect), I think. Try turning down the motion enhancement, picture settings->advanced->motion enhancement, to normal if it's on high. you'll probably want to turn of OPC also, automagic screen brightness adjustments.
Also from the 632 thread, turning film mode off will eliminate SOE.
Best,
jeff

Note: a quick read of the manual for the 640/6400, shows motion enhancement cannot be turned off for the 640 but can for the 6400. It can also be turned off in the 745 (3D version of this 2012 model). I'll be buying in the next couple of weeks and have just started studying this hard....
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