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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 345

post #10321 of 15313
1/18/13 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Regarding the talk about 3D backgrounds being out of focus, this sounds like something I heard from somebody in a 3D blu-ray discussion forum last year. They said they notice a lot of background shots seem to be blurred in many 3D films.

I believe this is actually depth-of-field that is being noticed. If you pay attention to any 3D film, or even tv show, often times the person or subject in front of the camera is sharp and in focus, and the background is intentionally blurred, or out-of-focus. This is done on purpose to bring your attention to the subject in focus. It's done very frequently in photography also. What I think is happening is when this happens in 3D, the out-of-focus background is even more noticeably out-of-focus because it is in 3D, so the sharp subject in the foreground is very noticeable, and the blurred background waaay in the distance looks even more out-of-focus. This is intentional, and how it was filmed. Remember that different cameras and different techniques can achieve different levels of focus - you can have everything in the frame razor sharp, or you can intentionally blur the background for artistic, creative, or dramatic purpose.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, since I notice this myself at times. The 3D definitely makes the blurred backgrounds stand out even more.

But how does that explain out of focus backgrounds and misplaced objects on the 60 that are in focus and correctly placed on both the 65es8000 and 65vt50?
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post #10322 of 15313
1/18/13 at 1:50pm
What you see Cmay is strange, thats for sure. To be honest, I cant tell a difference in 3D from my calibrated VT50, to my Calibrated ES8000. It all looks the same to me.
Edited by Bolt989 - 1/18/13 at 1:56pm
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post #10323 of 15313
1/18/13 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

If that's true then I think they've gotten two updates since our last one. I think people have reported improved PQ with both of those last two UK updates, so I'm wondering why we haven't received even one of those over here yet.

Maybe even more than a couple of updates because he said something about being on 2000.1 or something like that. Hopefully someone from the UK can chime in here about that
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post #10324 of 15313
1/18/13 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Thanks, Op's Guy! Glad to be posting again.

Anthony, glad to see you back too!

Thanks Eagle! Definitely glad to see you back also! smile.gifsmile.gif
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post #10325 of 15313
1/18/13 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Great info! Based on this, you don't need the quad core for the new hub, only for the motion and voice. Also interesting is that the 8000 is separated more from the 7500 by including "Precision Black" (Cinema Black?). And that the 7500 still has MD Pro, but the 8000 MD does have a name change, "Ultimate +". Thanks, man! This may give a clue on some Evo Kit features - voice and motion but no Precision Black would be my guess. Also confirms that the new hub can be had without an Evo Kit. Hopefully we'll still see some picture improvement with the quad core and new GPU anyway though but I'm not counting on it yet.

Back to having more HDMI too.

Where does it state you won't need EVO Kit to get the new smart hub?
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post #10326 of 15313
1/18/13 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Regarding the talk about 3D backgrounds being out of focus, this sounds like something I heard from somebody in a 3D blu-ray discussion forum last year. They said they notice a lot of background shots seem to be blurred in many 3D films.

I believe this is actually depth-of-field that is being noticed. If you pay attention to any 3D film, or even tv show, often times the person or subject in front of the camera is sharp and in focus, and the background is intentionally blurred, or out-of-focus. This is done on purpose to bring your attention to the subject in focus. It's done very frequently in photography also. What I think is happening is when this happens in 3D, the out-of-focus background is even more noticeably out-of-focus because it is in 3D, so the sharp subject in the foreground is very noticeable, and the blurred background waaay in the distance looks even more out-of-focus. This is intentional, and how it was filmed. Remember that different cameras and different techniques can achieve different levels of focus - you can have everything in the frame razor sharp, or you can intentionally blur the background for artistic, creative, or dramatic purpose.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, since I notice this myself at times. The 3D definitely makes the blurred backgrounds stand out even more.
Funny I think just the opposite. I think in 3D stuff in the back should be better in focus than 2D. With your eyes out a window you can focus on the near as well as the far and they both look sharp not blurry (assuming you have good vision or glasses). That's what makes real life look 3D. I think that's what they strive for in 3D movies.
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post #10327 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digimat View Post

Where does it state you won't need EVO Kit to get the new smart hub?

it doesn't but there have been rumors since someone at Samsung supposedly said it at CES. Just hearsay right now but based on the PDF I was referring to, it shows dual core TVs with the new hub and quad core TVs with advanced motion and voice control. So the rumor may be true that dual core 2012 TVs could see the new hub without the quad core Evo Kit, but not get the advanced control.
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post #10328 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Hey all, it's great to be back! I see some information is out now about the Evo kit. I've been wondering about a possible benefit of the quad-core upgrade. Is it possible that the quad-core upgrade could improve the performance of Auto Motion Plus? Currently I get intermittent stuttering on most of the AMP modes - only clear seems to actually be stutter free. I know others have experienced something similar. And I'm assuming it's the processor that is powering the generation of the new frames created by AMP. I wonder if by having more processing power it may be that AMP could run smoother without hiccups? That is if it's hiccuping is due to reasons other than the source.

I also wonder if it's possible that there could be a reduction in lag, since it might be possible for the quad-core processor to to handle the image processing faster or more efficiently, resulting in shorter lag?

Eagle, welcome back, man. Better blacks or less clouding I don't expect from the kit, but I think seeing benefits like you mention are a definite possibility. It simply makes sense. Based on the PDF I referred to, we shouldn't need the kit for the new hub, but faster CPUs and GPUs should still help other things other than simple giving us better voice and motion control. The new kit make real time 3D graphics possible too. Being Samsung had a beta program for games through the ES, I assume this will come into play for them. Games and motion & voice control aren't enough for me to buy it though.
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post #10329 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:09pm
Samsung really should be giving us the new smart hub design for free, , then give us the option to buy the kit if we want a quad core for it to run faster and the other extra features it has and I hope that they realize this and just put out the FW for it
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post #10330 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Regarding the talk about 3D backgrounds being out of focus, this sounds like something I heard from somebody in a 3D blu-ray discussion forum last year. They said they notice a lot of background shots seem to be blurred in many 3D films.

I believe this is actually depth-of-field that is being noticed. If you pay attention to any 3D film, or even tv show, often times the person or subject in front of the camera is sharp and in focus, and the background is intentionally blurred, or out-of-focus. This is done on purpose to bring your attention to the subject in focus. It's done very frequently in photography also. What I think is happening is when this happens in 3D, the out-of-focus background is even more noticeably out-of-focus because it is in 3D, so the sharp subject in the foreground is very noticeable, and the blurred background waaay in the distance looks even more out-of-focus. This is intentional, and how it was filmed. Remember that different cameras and different techniques can achieve different levels of focus - you can have everything in the frame razor sharp, or you can intentionally blur the background for artistic, creative, or dramatic purpose.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, since I notice this myself at times. The 3D definitely makes the blurred backgrounds stand out even more.

This is why I had mentioned that I don't think the technique carries over well to 3D. As for cmay asking why is was in focus on the 65", I'm not sure it was to tell the truth, although it may have been handled better. I wish I had that movie. Blurred backgrounds in 3D mess with my head, although in 2D and pictures, I love depth of field.
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post #10331 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

Samsung really should be giving us the new smart hub design for free, , then give us the option to buy the kit if we want a quad core for it to run faster and the other extra features it has and I hope that they realize this and just put out the FW for it

Based on the rumor and now the pdf you posted, I really think we will get it. The graphics just won't run as smoothly as with the evo kit.
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post #10332 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Based on the rumor and now the pdf you posted, I really think we will get it. The graphics just won't run as smoothly as with the evo kit.

I'm starting to think the same thing GARNOSH! biggrin.gif
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post #10333 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebignewt View Post

Funny I think just the opposite. I think in 3D stuff in the back should be better in focus than 2D. With your eyes out a window you can focus on the near as well as the far and they both look sharp not blurry (assuming you have good vision or glasses). That's what makes real life look 3D. I think that's what they strive for in 3D movies.

They don't but that's exactly my point - I think they should. The problem is they have to make it look the way they want in 2D first. That's most important. It's like surround mixes for TV. You'd be surprised how few 5.1 mixes are ever listened to before going out the door because how they translate in stereo is more important.
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post #10334 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Great info! Based on this, you don't need the quad core for the new hub, only for the motion and voice. Also interesting is that the 8000 is separated more from the 7500 by including "Precision Black" (Cinema Black?). And that the 7500 still has MD Pro, but the 8000 MD does have a name change, "Ultimate +". Thanks, man! This may give a clue on some Evo Kit features - voice and motion but no Precision Black would be my guess. Also confirms that the new hub can be had without an Evo Kit. Hopefully we'll still see some picture improvement with the quad core and new GPU anyway though but I'm not counting on it yet.

Back to having more HDMI too.

Great to see some new information there. Garnoch as far as the chart goes, I don't think that it's indicating that the flagship dimming feature is called Ultimate "Plus". I think it's more of just saying Ultimate dimming with/plus/and Precision Black

As far as Precision Black goes, here's a couple interesting statements I read recently

From CNET:
The company claims the microdimming system eliminates blooming effects and its Precision Black algorithm can control black levels in discrete zones without affecting light areas of the picture.
The TV incorporates a quad-core processor, which should assist with the speed of the Smart TV interface as well as provide muscle for picture-processing features such as Motion Judder Cancellation Pro, Digital Noise Reduction, and Web Picture Quality Enhancer

Samsung.com:
With Samsung’s Precision Black Pro technology, the set delivers deep, real blacks as well as pure vivacious whites. It combines an extremely high contrast ratio and Ultimate Dimming control functionality – which utilizes hundreds blocks of LEDs and precise BLU control – to deliver sharp resolutions previously unseen on large format displays
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post #10335 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

What you see Cmay is strange, thats for sure. To be honest, I cant tell a difference in 3D from my calibrated VT50, to my Calibrated ES8000. It all looks the same to me.

I'm not comparing the 65es8000 to the 65vt50, it's the difference between the 60es8000 and the other two.
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post #10336 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

I'm starting to think the same thing GARNOSH! biggrin.gif

Ha, you're funny. Think LOCHness monster smile.gif
It makes sense though. Someone else said here they doubt Samsung would want to support both. I don't think they will need to. If that's true though, that means BD players and such will be updated too.
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post #10337 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

Great to see some new information there. Garnoch as far as the chart goes, I don't think that it's indicating that the flagship dimming feature is called Ultimate "Plus". I think it's more of just saying Ultimate dimming with/plus/and Precision Black

As far as Precision Black goes, here's a couple interesting statements I read recently

From CNET:
The company claims the microdimming system eliminates blooming effects and its Precision Black algorithm can control black levels in discrete zones without affecting light areas of the picture.
The TV incorporates a quad-core processor, which should assist with the speed of the Smart TV interface as well as provide muscle for picture-processing features such as Motion Judder Cancellation Pro, Digital Noise Reduction, and Web Picture Quality Enhancer

Samsung.com:
With Samsung’s Precision Black Pro technology, the set delivers deep, real blacks as well as pure vivacious whites. It combines an extremely high contrast ratio and Ultimate Dimming control functionality – which utilizes hundreds blocks of LEDs and precise BLU control – to deliver sharp resolutions previously unseen on large format displays

AHHHHHHHHHHH great point! That's why they hadn't referred to it as + so far. They just meant MD Ultimate AND Precision Black.

As for the CNET article, it made no sense because it made it sound like MD was new. This.....
"The company claims the microdimming system eliminates blooming effects and its Precision Black algorithm can control black levels in discrete zones without affecting light areas of the picture."
...... is the same thing as was said about the 2012 models haha.
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post #10338 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

This is why I had mentioned that I don't think the technique carries over well to 3D. As for cmay asking why is was in focus on the 65", I'm not sure it was to tell the truth, although it may have been handled better. I wish I had that movie. Blurred backgrounds in 3D mess with my head, although in 2D and pictures, I love depth of field.

I've also maintained from the start that the tvs I tested were possibly damaged since I transported them in the back of an SUV laying flat face up and that could also be why the 3d was so bad.
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post #10339 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Ha, you're funny. Think LOCHness monster smile.gif
It makes sense though. Someone else said here they doubt Samsung would want to support both. I don't think they will need to. If that's true though, that means BD players and such will be updated too.

I know Mr. Garnoch, i was just breaking em on ya! smile.gif
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post #10340 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

I've also maintained from the start that the tvs I tested were possibly damaged since I transported them in the back of an SUV laying flat face up and that could also be why the 3d was so bad.

Yeah you did, but I have a feeling you may be right that the 60" is just handling that information differently. I don't think a depth of field shot will be in focus so to speak on the 65" or VT, but it may at least look better. I just love to see a 3D movie with no blurring, so my eyes can focus on whatever I want.
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post #10341 of 15313
1/18/13 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Yeah you did, but I have a feeling you may be right that the 60" is just handling that information differently. I don't think a depth of field shot will be in focus so to speak on the 65" or VT, but it may at least look better. I just love to see a 3D movie with no blurring, so my eyes can focus on whatever I want.

True, perhaps a better way to describe is that the backgrounds on the 65 are less noticeable because the 60 handles it differently which results in some background crosstalk and 3d errors (misplaced items) that make the blurry backgrounds stand out more.... And it was 3d animated films that seemed to suffer the most. I did not notice it on live action 3d and never got to test avengers and look at the scenes in question from earlier in the thread.
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post #10342 of 15313
1/18/13 at 3:28pm
Hey guys.

Thanks a bunch for the encouragement to return my last two UN65ES8000s based on having a stuck pixel on #1 and dead pixels on #2.

#3 arrived today. No stuck and no dead pixels.

When I tested on a gray screen I do see what I believe is some significant vertical banding (see picture).

I thought I remembered that some users reported this issue resolving itself over time or with settings. Is this correct?

Does this look like a significant issue? I don't see it when watching normal programming.

Thanks for any advice / help.

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post #10343 of 15313
1/18/13 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sony1717 View Post

Hey guys.

Thanks a bunch for the encouragement to return my last two UN65ES8000s based on having a stuck pixel on #1 and dead pixels on #2.

#3 arrived today. No stuck and no dead pixels.

When I tested on a gray screen I do see what I believe is some significant vertical banding (see picture).

I thought I remembered that some users reported this issue resolving itself over time or with settings. Is this correct?

Does this look like a significant issue? I don't see it when watching normal programming.

Thanks for any advice / help.


I would say take a look at the test picture in the menu and check for any banding there. If you can't see it under normal viewing, it may be good. Watch some PGA this weekend as well. That is the truest test to spot it. Doesn't look too bad to me from the picture. Settings will definitely help. I'm watching PGA golf on mine now and it looks great. Good luck with it!
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post #10344 of 15313
1/18/13 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sony1717 View Post

Hey guys.

Thanks a bunch for the encouragement to return my last two UN65ES8000s based on having a stuck pixel on #1 and dead pixels on #2.

#3 arrived today. No stuck and no dead pixels.

When I tested on a gray screen I do see what I believe is some significant vertical banding (see picture).

I thought I remembered that some users reported this issue resolving itself over time or with settings. Is this correct?

Does this look like a significant issue? I don't see it when watching normal programming.

Thanks for any advice / help.


If you don't see it when watching normal programming, then you might be OK. Just make sure you watch lots of different stuff within the return period so you can make a final decision. The six vertical bans you have especially the two on the left middle of the screen will most likely be noticeable on panning shots. If you watch a ton of sports, I'd say you are going to have a problem. If you watch mostly movies and/or shows, you probably won't be bothered by it too much if it is not bothering you so far.
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post #10345 of 15313
1/18/13 at 4:04pm
So I take it this is not something that goes away with use or settings?

What is the cause? Are all sets in this model family plagued with this issue to one degree or another?
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post #10346 of 15313
1/18/13 at 4:17pm
Mine had similar banding. Viewable in all normal content regardless of settings. And while some report that clouding goes away after a while, banding doesn't improve over time, it's there to stay. Watch normal content and see if you notice it.

1000
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post #10347 of 15313
1/18/13 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sony1717 View Post

So I take it this is not something that goes away with use or settings?

What is the cause? Are all sets in this model family plagued with this issue to one degree or another?

This year its mostly just the 65" that have the banding issue. You can also check out Amazon.com and see some new reviews there of others that are having the same issues as you. I'm shocked that this model has 40 1 star reviews and only 70 5 stars. I think most of the 1 stars are from people buying this 65". I have the 60" and its like a different TV with no banding whatsoever. I also have the 65" that has banding which you can see in my pics on here and honestly, I wish I never kept it, Which is why I'm hoping the new F series is free of bamding so I can replace my 65" with the new one.
Edited by Anthony5362 - 1/18/13 at 4:40pm
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post #10348 of 15313
1/18/13 at 6:16pm
I know there are alot of amazing picture settings floating around this post.... They all look great... But after playing around with "Dynamic"!! ,, who would have thought the picture would look so good. Even my friends agree these settings look absolutely great.. I have a 60"... Try them out... The good thing with dynamic mode is you don't have to change your heavily tweaked out movie or standard settings. smile.gif

*My Comcast HD box picture settings;

Dynamic Picture Mode:

Backlight: 6
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 33
Sharpness: 46
Color: 60
Tint: G45/R55
Color Tone; Standard
Digital Noise Filter; Auto
MPEG Noise Filter; Off
Auto Motion Plus; Off
LED Motion Plus; Off
Edited by badabing - 1/18/13 at 6:23pm
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post #10349 of 15313
1/18/13 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

Great to see some new information there. Garnoch as far as the chart goes, I don't think that it's indicating that the flagship dimming feature is called Ultimate "Plus". I think it's more of just saying Ultimate dimming with/plus/and Precision Black

As far as Precision Black goes, here's a couple interesting statements I read recently

From CNET:
The company claims the microdimming system eliminates blooming effects and its Precision Black algorithm can control black levels in discrete zones without affecting light areas of the picture.
The TV incorporates a quad-core processor, which should assist with the speed of the Smart TV interface as well as provide muscle for picture-processing features such as Motion Judder Cancellation Pro, Digital Noise Reduction, and Web Picture Quality Enhancer[/I]

Samsung.com:
With Samsung’s Precision Black Pro technology, the set delivers deep, real blacks as well as pure vivacious whites. It combines an extremely high contrast ratio and Ultimate Dimming control functionality – which utilizes hundreds blocks of LEDs and precise BLU control – to deliver sharp resolutions previously unseen on large format displays

This makes me hopeful that perhaps the Evo kit's quad-core processor could indeed give an improvement in picture processing, like improving the smoothness of AMP without stuttering. I wonder though if since these 2012 sets weren't designed with quad-core in mind, would it be able to properly take advantage of the quad-core chip for image processing, or would the quad-core only get utilized by the smarthub or motion control?
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post #10350 of 15313
1/18/13 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Hmmmm, question one, have you noticed it since or only on that program?

Maybe one other time.....
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