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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 368

post #11011 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

My ES7500 has the latest update, and the"V" is still right where it always is. It has not improved.

Which mode, Eagle. I know yours seems a little worse off than other, but on the 7500, I'm really not seeing a difference in Standard but Movie mode for me is much better than before.

Edit:
Sorry, just saw your other post. Being you have a 7500, it's not surprising me you're not seeing a difference. Personally, I can't imagine my Standard mode having less flashlighting than it already has though.
post #11012 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-t View Post

As I continue to panic over my GT50 I went back to Best Buy this morning to look at the ES8000. The sales drones there are never that great and I asked them about the firmware on the panel they had showing, the first guy didn't know much about it, the second guy was maybe worse, they grabbed "the guy who knows everything" and he went in to find it was some old version. I asked him to update it because everyone here has been going nuts over it. So he did. Then he also went nuts. He basically left me standing there after his jaw dropped and got on the phone to the rest of Best Buys to update this firmware so they can start pushing out sets before the 2013 shows up. He then went on and on about blacks and flash lighting.

So my dilema is now that I haven't been impressed with the GT50 for the first few days, but I haven't really given it time and I have an offer from them where the price seems just below market but they are going to throw in this kit whenever it comes out. What would you guys do?

That's a hard one. I think if I was given a deal that cheap with the evo kit thrown in, I'd probably wind up getting it instead of waiting for the new model. Hard decision though. Good luck.
post #11013 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

I played a little with it tonight. Mirroring from my iPhone 5 to the ATV2 was pretty cool. Your assumption about HDMI and 5.1 audio is correct. You pick the mfr of your tv, receiver and speakers, and the type of mobile connection. However, using an iPhone 5 requires the use of a Lightning Port to HDMI cable (which is about $45)!. I listened to the audio instructions and viewed the THX video files and they looked really good on our tv (all of the points to look for were clearly visible). The app is free from the App Store until Feb. 4th I believe. I'm toying with the idea of getting a cable to do the 5.1 audio check.

Very cool. It started to make me wonder why Disney didn't port their WOW setup like this, but now I'm thinking it doesn't matter - does Disney now own THX now that they bought all Lucas' properties?
post #11014 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Nope, I haven't done a full reset. I really don't like the idea of doing a full reset after every update. That's way too much effort having to put all my settings into every single port for every 2D and 3D mode. If there was some concrete evidence like Samsung saying "this update requires a full reset to take effect", then at least I could see the benefit. But unfortunately for every person that says they see a difference after doing a full reset, another person says that see no difference. The last time I did a full reset, I saw no difference, if that's anything to go by.

I agree, but I'm going to do one this weekend anyway because I'm curious - and I'm curious what the default settings look like now.
post #11015 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Funny you mention that, because I started playing around with some settings tonight, after I posted that, and I decided that I do think standard color tone looks more natural for flesh tones. I also turned off black tone because the more I play with it, the more I think it probably does more harm than good. I don't think this has anything to do with the updates though, because things honestly look pretty much the same as I'm used to seeing. The test images on the WOW disc still look just like they always did to me, I just think I'm liking the standard color a bit more than warm1.

One thing I'll say - I spent a couple hours tonight switching back and forth between standard and movie modes - I haven't done that for quite a while. Standard still has just as much auto-dimming as ever for me - I still use the workaround and I can't see myself ever not needing to use it. With the workaround, standard seems the best mode for me - it offers the best image quality with the lowest backlight setting. Movie mode still needs to be set around 5 points higher to equal the brightness of standard mode. Standard mode is set to 7, and it's plenty bright enough at that setting. Movie mode on 7 is quite dim - noticeably dimmer than standard at 7, and too dim to enjoy viewing. At 12, it looks more like standard in terms of brightness, but then the "V" is much more visible thanks to the increased backlight. And I think movie mode just looks too dull and murky honestly, compared to standard. Standard looks quite natural to me - not blown out, not over-saturated - just natural. I have things pretty nicely balanced now. Movie mode just doesn't seem to compare.

Regarding the standard mode workaround - I've veered quite a bit from the original posted fix that was posted. I've managed to get what I feel is excellent color while completely eliminating the auto-dimming effects of standard mode. The trick is bumping the offsets in white balance way, way down and bumping up the brightness higher. My brightness is on 60 which sounds really high, but keep in mind my offsets are very low, which balances it back out while defeating auto-dimming. The test images on the WOW disc look good with these settings, and it allows me to enjoy standard mode, which gives me the benefit of a great image while keeping the backlight low.

Yep, the dimming workaround I feel is still needed to. My Standard settings look awesome but I didn't feel I had to go to the extreme you did. I bumped Brightness up by 7 to 53 and then lowered all my White Balance Offsets down by 7. It's a perfect match to what it was before but without the dimming effect.
post #11016 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamermwm View Post

For those of you interested in 3D blurays check out bluray.com (If you don't already know about it). I'll provide a link below that will you take you straight to the Trading Forum which is for members only (you won't be able to see the listings until you sign in). If you're not already a part of the forum it's pretty quick and easy to sign up (and free of course). On that page you'll find the 3D Blu-ray Buy/ Sell/ Trade thread - which is where people seek trades and list their 3D movies for sale

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48

I've been a part of the community there for going on 2 years now, and when I first joined most 3D discs went for around $15 there, but I'd say most average around $10 for just the 3D disc now. That way instead of limiting yourself to one $25-30 3D movie once a month, you could go there and get 3 3D discs for that price. It's not uncommon for people to list them at $8 each. And if you're looking for complete combo packs, you'll find them there as well. I've never had one bad trade and most people who trade there are trustworthy. Give it a look if you want.

I don't normally go out of my way to tell people about it because it's kind of my and a handful of others go-to niche for new 3d releases on the cheap. But I like you guys so I thought I'd share the info. Good luck. Disclaimer: Please note that I am not advertising anything here as bluray.com is not a retail site. It's a lot like AVS but with various bluray centric threads for bluray movie & hardware enthusiasts

Thanks, man, great info!
post #11017 of 16125
Bolt?? I'm curious to know how your cherry picked 65" is doing after this update? I'm wondering if since Samsung hand picked your set for you, if it already had this 1046.2 update on it rolleyes.gif

Garnoch, did you get a chance to try out that THX app last night? If so, what do you think about it?
post #11018 of 16125
I downloaded it, but just haven't had time to do anything. Hopefully this weekend. As of now, I'm thinking Friday night.
post #11019 of 16125
E2-

RE: "Standard still has just as much auto-dimming as ever for me - I still use the workaround and I can't see myself ever not needing to use it. With the workaround, standard seems the best mode for me - it offers the best image quality with the lowest backlight setting. Movie mode still needs to be set around 5 points higher to equal the brightness of standard mode. Standard mode is set to 7, and it's plenty bright enough at that setting. Movie mode on 7 is quite dim - noticeably dimmer than standard at 7, and too dim to enjoy viewing. At 12, it looks more like standard in terms of brightness, but then the "V" is much more visible thanks to the increased backlight. And I think movie mode just looks too dull and murky honestly, compared to standard. Standard looks quite natural to me - not blown out, not over-saturated - just natural. I have things pretty nicely balanced now. Movie mode just doesn't seem to compare."

I am not sure if this is the difference between the 8000 and other sets but there is a profound difference in how dimming is working on my TV after firmware update 1046 - - and for the better. The "V" is gone. Extremely dark black, inky blacks and absolutely pristine colors - - I mean I looked at CNN last night and even an old movie and I could not believe my eyes! Not trying to be a fanboy - - I'm just amazed that one firmware update can have this big a change in PQ.

As I mentioned in an earlier post - - "Standard" setting with all other processing off, Color Tone is "Standard" with "Auto" for Color Space. Brightness at 40 - Contrast at 90 - Backlight at 10. All other default settings.

Can this be the difference in dimming between the larger 65" 8000 and the other models?

Dimming is still present - - and a great way to check is to invoke the menu where you make your changes and you can see things going on. But I can see movie credits now. Before, they would dim out. Much more detail and the "V," for me, is gone. And without question, the blackest blacks I've ever seen on my TV.

Again, for all users, it seems that YMMV. Not sure why.
post #11020 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

I downloaded it, but just haven't had time to do anything. Hopefully this weekend. As of now, I'm thinking Friday night.

Here's a interesting article from when these models first came out. At the bottom, it sounds like this dude says when he tested this set at CES, it has the "Smart LED" feature.. Strange. I never checked the settings when I saw it, but I wish I did back then.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/samsung-2012-tv-briefing
post #11021 of 16125
Rico, it can't just be the 65" because my 60" is the one I notice the difference in even more. That's the one I updated first where my relative asked me what I did to make it look so bright and colorful. With that THX app, I was able to dial in my settings with Dynamic contrast on low and black tone on low without crushing anything. Last time I spoke to Samsung about this whole micro dimming, they told me that the "Dynamic contrast" enhances the Micro dimming or something like that, which is why I try my hardest to use them and dial them in where nothing gets crushed.

About the CE dimming, your right! It is still there, but no where as bad as before..thank god
post #11022 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

Rico, it can't just be the 65" because my 60" is the one I notice the difference in even more. That's the one I updated first where my relative asked me what I did to make it look so bright and colorful.

Well then it's settled...E2 has gone into his set and somehow tampered with default settings to render firmware update 1046 null and void. Just kidding! smile.gif

Outside of a complete "reset" (not picture reset) - I'm at a loss as to why E2 wouldn't see what we are seeing or what others have posted about this update.
post #11023 of 16125
I'm not seeing the CE Dimming difference in Standard either and Eagle and I have the 7500. If CE Dimming is controlled by the supposed 600 Micro Dimming zones, and the 7500 has half that many, that may be the answer as to why they react differently. It doesn't mean Samsung can't change it though via software being Eagle and I are both able to diminish it's effects with the Brightness trick.
post #11024 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

As I mentioned in an earlier post - - "Standard" setting with all other processing off, Color Tone is "Standard" with "Auto" for Color Space. Brightness at 40 - Contrast at 90 - Backlight at 10. All other default settings.
I run similar settings. I had a free hour last night to play around with the Disney WOW disk. The color accuracy of this set is pretty great on "standard" at default levels, I think I ended up with color at 48 just based on personal preference.

With brightness and contrast though I really think test patterns can lead you astray with this set. It's most obvious If you pull up the composite checkboard and star pattern which has both the black and white calibration ranges on it. It is basically impossible to get invisible white and invisible black in the same place at the same time using the brightness and contrast controls on this test. Despite the fact that you can get a "correct" calibration by pulling up the brightness and contrast checkerboards individually and configuring that way!

I was able to get the composite pattern to have both the correct white and black be invisible but it took brightness at 57, contrast 98, dynamic contrast "low", and black level "darker". What is funny is that even though these settings made the chart look perfect, firing up the Dark Knight Rises was a completely different story. Dark scenes were washed out and I was getting a pretty heavy amount of "halo" type light bleed coming out of the bottom of my set during the scenes with black bars across top and bottom.

Anyway that was a fun hour spent, but I'm back to standard mode with setting similar to yours Rico and the picture of actual content could not be better, even though the test patterns say otherwise.
post #11025 of 16125
Here's an article that confirms Samsung noting that the Dymanic Contrat and Black Whatever controls the... Also, I think the default setting in standard has the dynamic contrat enebaled. I think it also depends on the source. Like maybe blu rays, its best off. Idk..

http://hometheaterreview.com/samsung-un55es8000-ledlcd-hdtv/

From the article..

I immediately noticed the absence of two controls that were offered on last year's UND8000: Smart LED and Cinema Black. Both of these controls were tied to Samsung's local-dimming function. Smart LED adjusted the aggressiveness of the local dimming, while Cinema Black turned off the LEDs in the black bars of a 2.35:1 film to make them completely black. When I asked my Samsung rep why these controls were gone, I got a surprising answer. Samsung has decided to no longer use local dimming in its edge-lit LEDs, primarily because of the potential for the glow/halo effect. So, while "Micro Dimming Ultimate" technology may sound like some type of local dimming, it is not the independent dimming of the different LED zones to suit the content onscreen. Rather, it's a form of electronic dimming, using the TV's Dynamic Contrast and Black Enhancer tools to adjust black level and brightness. The one LED-dimming effect that remains is that, when the TV detects an all-black screen (such as a transition between scenes), it will turn off all the LEDs to make the screen completely black.
post #11026 of 16125
Rico, have you checked out Standard def on your direct TV yet? I know standard def sucks and I never watch anything but HD, but check it out now with this update. It looks so much better now. Almost close to HD.. Atleast that's how it looked with my Comcast cable.. I would imagine direct TV would look even better?
post #11027 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

Here's an article that confirms Samsung noting that the Dymanic Contrat and Black Whatever controls the... Also, I think the default setting in standard has the dynamic contrat enebaled. I think it also depends on the source. Like maybe blu rays, its best off. Idk..

http://hometheaterreview.com/samsung-un55es8000-ledlcd-hdtv/

From the article..

I immediately noticed the absence of two controls that were offered on last year's UND8000: Smart LED and Cinema Black. Both of these controls were tied to Samsung's local-dimming function. Smart LED adjusted the aggressiveness of the local dimming, while Cinema Black turned off the LEDs in the black bars of a 2.35:1 film to make them completely black. When I asked my Samsung rep why these controls were gone, I got a surprising answer. Samsung has decided to no longer use local dimming in its edge-lit LEDs, primarily because of the potential for the glow/halo effect. So, while "Micro Dimming Ultimate" technology may sound like some type of local dimming, it is not the independent dimming of the different LED zones to suit the content onscreen. Rather, it's a form of electronic dimming, using the TV's Dynamic Contrast and Black Enhancer tools to adjust black level and brightness. The one LED-dimming effect that remains is that, when the TV detects an all-black screen (such as a transition between scenes), it will turn off all the LEDs to make the screen completely black.

Very very interesting. Thanks, man. That would explain why the definition of Dynamic Contrast almost perfectly matches that of Micro Dimming, and Black Enhancer in Movie mode definitely creates a CE Dimming feature. This would also explain why Black Enhancer is not able to be activated in Standard - because it's always on. But based on this, I'm surprised Dynamic Contrast can be activated in Standard, because like CE Dimming, I can tell something similar (Micro Dimming?) is always on in Standard. Almost as if adding Dynamic Contrast to Standard mode is doubling the amount that it's using. This would also explain why I can get Standard and Movie modes to look more closely alike by having Dynamic Contrast ON in movie mode but OFF in Standard mode.
post #11028 of 16125
I am contemplating which TV to buy right now. Due to the light in my room LED is the only way to go for WAF.
How does the 8000 look for sports - specifically soccer but would be interested in American football too? I would be getting the 65" version if that makes a difference. Sorry for not trawling my way through this thread, but its buge and the latest firmware seesm to make a big difference.
post #11029 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerednai View Post

I am contemplating which TV to buy right now. Due to the light in my room LED is the only way to go for WAF.
How does the 8000 look for sports - specifically soccer but would be interested in American football too? I would be getting the 65" version if that makes a difference. Sorry for not trawling my way through this thread, but its buge and the latest firmware seesm to make a big difference.

Honestly, your better off getting the 60" unless you don't mind playing the lottery. What I mean is, the 65" seem to have vertical banding issues, where as the 60" don't have noticeable banding like the 65" if you get the 65" just be prepared to maybe have to return some until you get a decent panel. Or, you can wait until March and check out the F8000.

If your looking for even bigger then 65", Samsung confirmed that they are releasing a few models in a 70"

Here's their 2013 lineup

http://un65f8000.com/uploads/Samsug_2013_LED_Product_Guide.pdf
post #11030 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerednai View Post

I am contemplating which TV to buy right now. Due to the light in my room LED is the only way to go for WAF.
How does the 8000 look for sports - specifically soccer but would be interested in American football too? I would be getting the 65" version if that makes a difference. Sorry for not trawling my way through this thread, but its buge and the latest firmware seesm to make a big difference.

If you want 65" I would wait for the F8000's to come out in the next few months.
post #11031 of 16125
Thaks for the thoughts. I am going to send back this GT50 and go with the ES8000. Fingers crossed.
post #11032 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick-t View Post

Thaks for the thoughts. I am going to send back this GT50 and go with the ES8000. Fingers crossed.

Good luck man! Are you going 60" or 65? I think you will be "wowed" when you get it set up
post #11033 of 16125
55
post #11034 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

Rico, have you checked out Standard def on your direct TV yet? I know standard def sucks and I never watch anything but HD, but check it out now with this update. It looks so much better now. Almost close to HD.. Atleast that's how it looked with my Comcast cable.. I would imagine direct TV would look even better?

I haven't but I will. I avoid SD like the plague. Our hometown basketball/hockey station (Altitude Sports) is so cheap (Kroenke - Wal Mart billions) that they broadcast in SD from their studio here in Denver. I have the sports package via Directv and nobody, I mean nobody's other "Sports" stations broadcast a crappy signal like Silent Stanley. Everything is in pristine "HD." It 's funny because all the interviews with the coaches & players after the game are in "HD" and then they go back to a plastered looking TV set in SD!

I'll check it out.
post #11035 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony5362 View Post

Here's an article that confirms Samsung noting that the Dymanic Contrat and Black Whatever controls the... Also, I think the default setting in standard has the dynamic contrat enebaled. I think it also depends on the source. Like maybe blu rays, its best off. Idk..

http://hometheaterreview.com/samsung-un55es8000-ledlcd-hdtv/

From the article..

I immediately noticed the absence of two controls that were offered on last year's UND8000: Smart LED and Cinema Black. Both of these controls were tied to Samsung's local-dimming function. Smart LED adjusted the aggressiveness of the local dimming, while Cinema Black turned off the LEDs in the black bars of a 2.35:1 film to make them completely black. When I asked my Samsung rep why these controls were gone, I got a surprising answer. Samsung has decided to no longer use local dimming in its edge-lit LEDs, primarily because of the potential for the glow/halo effect. So, while "Micro Dimming Ultimate" technology may sound like some type of local dimming, it is not the independent dimming of the different LED zones to suit the content onscreen. Rather, it's a form of electronic dimming, using the TV's Dynamic Contrast and Black Enhancer tools to adjust black level and brightness. The one LED-dimming effect that remains is that, when the TV detects an all-black screen (such as a transition between scenes), it will turn off all the LEDs to make the screen completely black.
So the ES8000 doesn't have the ability to dim multiple sections of the screen independently, that's what you learned? Interesting, because in all of these discussions and in reading the Samsung pimps for the TV I assumed it did. Oh well.
post #11036 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerednai View Post

I am contemplating which TV to buy right now. Due to the light in my room LED is the only way to go for WAF.
How does the 8000 look for sports - specifically soccer but would be interested in American football too? I would be getting the 65" version if that makes a difference. Sorry for not trawling my way through this thread, but its buge and the latest firmware seesm to make a big difference.
I watch a lot of football and golf. The thing looks great.
post #11037 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

E2-

RE: "Standard still has just as much auto-dimming as ever for me - I still use the workaround and I can't see myself ever not needing to use it. With the workaround, standard seems the best mode for me - it offers the best image quality with the lowest backlight setting. Movie mode still needs to be set around 5 points higher to equal the brightness of standard mode. Standard mode is set to 7, and it's plenty bright enough at that setting. Movie mode on 7 is quite dim - noticeably dimmer than standard at 7, and too dim to enjoy viewing. At 12, it looks more like standard in terms of brightness, but then the "V" is much more visible thanks to the increased backlight. And I think movie mode just looks too dull and murky honestly, compared to standard. Standard looks quite natural to me - not blown out, not over-saturated - just natural. I have things pretty nicely balanced now. Movie mode just doesn't seem to compare."

I am not sure if this is the difference between the 8000 and other sets but there is a profound difference in how dimming is working on my TV after firmware update 1046 - - and for the better. The "V" is gone. Extremely dark black, inky blacks and absolutely pristine colors - - I mean I looked at CNN last night and even an old movie and I could not believe my eyes! Not trying to be a fanboy - - I'm just amazed that one firmware update can have this big a change in PQ.

As I mentioned in an earlier post - - "Standard" setting with all other processing off, Color Tone is "Standard" with "Auto" for Color Space. Brightness at 40 - Contrast at 90 - Backlight at 10. All other default settings.

Can this be the difference in dimming between the larger 65" 8000 and the other models?

Dimming is still present - - and a great way to check is to invoke the menu where you make your changes and you can see things going on. But I can see movie credits now. Before, they would dim out. Much more detail and the "V," for me, is gone. And without question, the blackest blacks I've ever seen on my TV.

Again, for all users, it seems that YMMV. Not sure why.

We might have different screens, but I get a lot of crushed black detail with my brightness at 40.
post #11038 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by digimat View Post

Both

What resolution is your Apple TV outputting? What colorspace is it outputting?
post #11039 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

My ES7500 has the latest update, and the"V" is still right where it always is. It has not improved.

What is this "V" that I keep reading about?
post #11040 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

We might have different screens, but I get a lot of crushed black detail with my brightness at 40.

Which is why YMMV. I've even backed down Brightness from 40 and it's o.k., but it looks better to me at this setting. Also I'm running my Directv and Bluray source material through my Pioneer SC65 with Marvel QDEO video processing.

Again - - everyone has different tastes and you'll find people with higher or lower Brightness settings. No black crushed detail for me at 40. Out of curiosity - what are your settings (Standard/Movie - all default?) What size TV?
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