Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 378

Disregard some of what I say though until I finish....

The default is Standard with a Sharpness of 50, but if you change it to Movie, the Sharpness default is 20. You probably saw that and it stuck with you.

Eh, I wouldn't say people should start with mine really. If you're not going to hire someone, you really need to just find what works for your eyes and are happy with. That's why I tried so many first and suggest doing the same. Mine works for me and I can tell it's close to being right because I'm around monitors like that all day, but one, it's not perfect like a true calibration and two, people might not want to see it that way. Try a bunch and see what works for you then tweak from there. I tried Eagles and although he is right that most of the tests come out good, it's not even close to professional stuff, mostly because of his color temp and color being turned down, but he wants to see it that way and I think that's totally valid and fine and other people would probably be happy with it too. And your color temp is Standard, so your's may be too cool as well but a lot of people like that. Nothing wrong with being happy with your eyes and I know a lot of people feel a properly calibrated monitor is too warm. You're exactly right too that they aren't all the same, even panel to panel and room to room. And yeah OCD and a drink in your hand might not help haha. Nah, drinking water now here actually.

Resetting my TV did make me change some things in both modes. I'll double check it tomorrow and post the revisions based on a reset.

I've decided to buy a meter to really calibrate this thing. I honestly don't want to spend as much for the i1D3 with Chromapure or CalMAN, so I was looking at the Spyder 4 Elite, which apparently doesn't require purchasing software like the other I mentioned. I haven't done a whole lot of research, but want to do this quick. Anybody have any suggestions?

That's interesting. I didn't know that the 65 & the 60 have different panels. I assumed that the series had the same internal hardware and software. Pauls had matched prices. They have been really good about the situation. I'm likely to stick with them because I know they'll be there if (god forbid) something else goes wrong. I'm heartbroken but you've seemed to have eased the pain. I knew the 65 had some issues but I thought it was a very low percentage. So, you have both the 65 & 60 and see that big of a difference?

Thats my story :
-started with i1 display LT + HCFR (with help of fantastic kal's guide)
- then I bought chromapure standard w/o meter
-now I'm waiting for i1 display 3 from curtpalme .

-Compared price of your set with mine (about 1/3 of es8000), go with i1 D3 + chromapure (419USD).
-I have HCFR, i tested calman 4.5 an 5, i have chromapure.
-HCFR is without support and help. Author is not working on newer version. For its price (is free) it is good piece of programmers work, but prepare to learn a lot. Prepare to fight with drivers for meter...
-I1 D3 is class leading meter
-from my I1 LT I have to remove rubber suckers and is not so precise in low levels (and we want to have beautiful blacks)
-spyder has some negative reviews

I am professional programmer - from this point of view, calman is fantastic work, but chromapure is intuitive and straightforward, more user friendly
And at last, but not least, Tom Huffman or Kal will answer in few hours to any question. (not saying calman support is wrong, I have no licensed version, only betas)
Trust me, I'm playing with calibration almost once a week. It is really challenge but still pure joy to get maxx from TV. And each set is bit different, you will see how far your calibrated setting differs from forum's setting (sorry Garnoch...).
If you are not two-left-handed, also you learn much about color spaces, cie diagrams, gamma, how menu setting work, what about is warm1 or warm2 settings, what dark tone is doing with your blacks and at the end you will love your set even more..
Thats my 2cents.

FYI here is my report...
Film03012013.pdf 1343k .pdf file
Edited by prsut - 2/2/13 at 12:42am

It has been a while since I looked what is available on the market.
I also read the post from prsut.
Two years ago, I also worked with HCFR. But support is lacking. I do not know the HCFR capabilities now.
Chromapure is easy enough. Standard version would be sufficient for you.
Never tried out Calman.
Originally I had a i1D2 (Display2) which I believed in blindly. Until I got a i1Dsplay3PRO, which is much more accurate, and then I saw how much the Display2 was off.
So getting an accurate meter is important. I would now recommend i1D3 or i1D3PRO.
I am very sorry my aim to lend my calibrated i1Dispaly2 together with Chromapure license did not work out, as the meter disappeared mysteriously and did not turn up anymore. That would have been quick and easy for you.

hello prsut
Can you post your settings? I would be very interested in that.

:turboman
but note, I have another es model.. (es6710)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435194/tweak-disabling-autodimming-for-samsung-eseries-smart-led-tv-mine-is-es6710#post_22827782

I have posted calibration report as example how far default film mode is from calibrated settings on my set...

It is not uncommon for manufacturers to use panels from other companies in assembling the various models in a series Lineup. In fact, in this day and age, it is actually the norm. For instance, the Sony HX950 series uses a Samsung panel in its 65" model, but not in their 55" TV. Interestingly, owners report banding in the 65", albeit not as pronounced as in the Samsung. There are other factors to consider. The Samsung is edge lit and the Sony is full array. Even if (and I have no idea whether they do or not) both TV's use the same Samsung panel, they can (and do) wind up looking dramatically different.

Ricodome Update - Phase I Completed

(Gee, I sound like a developer!)

A couple pics of the new HT with my new Studio CC690 center - - just in time for my Super Bowl get together on Sunday. So far, an unbelievable center channel - - very clear, precise and well balanced dialogue. Perfectly matches my vintage Paradigm Studio 60's - V2. I can't believe how "out of phase" my other center channels were. This ones "like butter."

Phase II won't happen for a while - - but I now have the capability (after wall mounting the Sammy) to eventually get a projector with an electric screen going over the 65" LCD/LED panel - - strictly for Cinemascope 2.35 to 1 (or variations) movies.

Note to Bolt - - I kept the lamp. I thought I was going to replace it but it actually provides a nice, warm color and some light to my viewing environment. It works out quite well since it has a dimmer. Bias lighting used for 3D with other lights out.

Sammy panel problems...

I have to consider myself lucky - - in that the 65" replacement LCD/LED TV I received last summer shows very, very minimal banding, virtually zero clouding and flashlighting. (So far, knock, knock!)

With the new 1046 firmware upate (Standard settings, Standard Color, Auto Color Space) - - the colors are unbelievably rich and the auto dimming is much less noticeable now. Especially for movie credits. The blacks are inky dark and great shadow detail present.

For those of you who are having problems with their panels - - to paraphrase Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain." And I'm not trying to be flippant or patronizing. To spend this type of money on a TV and not get anywhere near where you should be is a crime. I know everyone is doing the best they can to get these issues fixed.

Hopefully, if you are not satisfied, you are within the "return window" and can get a full refund towards a different TV. And... as Anthony and many others have mentioned - - having an extended warranty through SquareTrade (or any other reputable company) goes a long way for piece of mind.

Great info, man, and good to see you around. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the guy that brought the wonderful CE Dimming workaround to AVS. I noticed you're not using the trick in your settings though. I realize it's a different model and may not translate at all, but I think I'll test your settings out to see how they look and add up with the WOW BD, AVS files and THX app. For the life of me, I can't understand why I had to change Movie mode after this update to Warm 1 but not Standard's. I agree and have said it many times here that if you want a truly calibrated picture to see programs the way the director meant them to be seen, you'll have to pay someone or buy your own equipment and learn how to do it yourself. Unfortunately a lot of the people doing that, don't share their settings and I understand that. One, it's mostly panel specific. Two, which rarely gets said, is they paid for it so why should it be given away. When I came here again for the ES, I knew I wasn't going to spend money on that but needed a good starting point and at least knew what to look for in general because of what I do for a living, so I make sure people coming here like I did can find some settings to start with and help them out. And a lot of those people never post. Plus a lot of people don't actually even like a calibrated monitor, so they change certain things and make it cooler or whatever they want so that their eyes are happy. I'm fine with that too, I get it. That's why I never promote my settings though. They aren't the be all end all. They're a starting point and one of many settings here that people who come hear looking for that type of thing can try before settling of what they like. By eye, and by the tools I have at my disposal, I'd say I'm 90% there though for my panel, definitely not 100 but good enough that I won't be spending money on it, although part of me would love a meter setup.

Turbo, could you post a link back to your settings again too please? I'll try them out too and see how they fair on my panel.

Feel free to plug my settings in too to see how they fair with meters and software. I will say I'm curious. I drives me a little crazy that they had to not only be tweaked after a firmware update but did indeed need to be tweaked after a full reset. I'll adjust my settings posted here with a note about that. Here's the deal for people wondering about a full reset though. Can it change how your settings look? Yes. Once you re-tweak it to get all your tests looking correctly though, it looks the same as before - for me. I'm a little ticked that I did the reset and had to change things more to get the same outcome because it took me a couple hours of back and forth between settings, inputs and tests. One glaring change being Standard's color moving from 51 to 48 - but not Movie mode's. Why? Reset aside though, I've had to tweak after every firmware update. Why after this update, for the first time, did I have to move to Warm 1 on movie mode (but not Standard), and why did Movie mode's Color have to get bumped up to 52 when it used to be on 49? No freaking idea. For someone who also is not going to hire someone or buy their own equipment, all I can say is that regardless of who's setting in this thread you decide to settle on (try many), get something like a calibration disc, the free files here on AVS and perhaps something like the THX app and simply tweak from there the basic settings like Contrast, Brightness, overall Color specific to your panel.

Prsut, great to see you back again, man!

Holy, crap, Rico!!!! What a change, looks amazing - and look at that new center channel!!!!!! Happy with the sound? Be honest now.

Deleted
Edited by Garnoch - 2/2/13 at 8:44am

Thanks, Anthony. This is addicting, isn't it! I saw the other pictures you talked about and those speakers look phenomenal!

I was in HT heaven yesterday. I went to pickup my Studio CC690 speaker and I saw some real high end stereo and home theater equipment (projectors, speakers, amps). To paraphrase the owner of the shop - - who was a great guy to work with - - we're "power hounds" here. Not so much for the loudness - - for the clarity. I could easily spend fifty grand on this stuff if I had the money. (Probably more....)

FYI - the center speaker - CC690 weighs 70+ pounds and luckily, my neighbor was able to help me carry in in and downstairs to the man cave. From there, it was a "power lift" up to the cabinet.

Happy with the sound? Ecstatic!!! I was breaking in the speaker, so to speak, last night and Mama wasn't a happy camper. She said, and I quote, "Yeah, you bet that center speaker is clear. I can hear it all the way upstairs!"

First impression and biggest improvement has to be the full matching of the Left, Center & Right soundstage and the depth and clarity of the dialogue.

The center does not seem "overtaxed" compared to other center channels I've used. The Paradigm Studio CCC690 doesn't break a sweat and it's really noticeable with movies - - seamless soundstage from left to center to right with clear vocals and resonant imaging.

For anyone who likes movies - - I strongly suggest getting the best, matching center channel you can. It's like a getting a whole new setup!

Anthony, I think you are misinterpreting the statements around the web - but who knows, given that Samsung has not been terribly clear about what is actually happening, it is hard to say.

That said, I have seen nothing that indicates any benefits (or drawbacks, depending on your perspective) of Micro Dimming is tied to having enabled Dynamic Contrast or Black Enhancer. I read the materials I've seen, as well as the link to David K's review and update differently. I currently believe that Micro Dimming is disabled in Movie Mode but enabled in Standard Mode. I further believe that both DC and BE are seperate controls, but that may do something similar to Micro Dimming. Remember, MD is software that analyzes indidivudal zones and then adjusts contrast, sharpness, and color. My best guess is that both DC and BE are doing something similar, primarily around contrast and color. In other words, I believe that MD is operating in Standard at all times, and is accomplishing some things (either good or bad) that may be similar to enabling some level of DC and BE; and that in order to accomplish the same or similar things in Movie Mode, one might play with DC and BE (or to increase the effects otherwise seen with MD in Standard, one could also juice up DC and BE).

Note that David K in his update says: "To see for myself, I tried a calibration in Standard mode and include the settings below in case readers want to try it themselves. Long story short: it does have better black levels, but they're still not as deep as the Sony KDL-55HX850 or Vizio M3D550KD, for example. In just about every other way, however, the image looked worse than in Movie mode, with less-accurate color, dim highlights and obscured shadow detail." His reference to settings includes DC and BE turned OFF. And yet he sees better blacks but degradations in other aspects of PQ -- put another way, there's something different in Standard versus Movie in his calibration, even with DC and BE turned off (i.e., Micro Dimming). He even states so: "It appears to me that some kind of active contrast control is going on in Standard (independent of any picture settings since my Standard calibration disabled Dynamic Contrast and Black Enhancer was grayed out in Standard), which perhaps is what Samsung means by "micro dimming." " So all in all I continue to believe that MicroDimming operates in Standard Mode regardless of these user-selectable settings.

FWIW, I still am happy with Standard over Movie, despite David K's stated results / concerns with the effect of MD.

I've played a little with both native pass-through and having the box scale to 1080p. Watched and (recorded) some HD sports in 720p, and some TNT reruns in 1080i, and compared the results through both native and scaled. Sometimes I think I see a difference, and other times not. Being able to watch the same material right after one another has made it a bit easier to compare. Frankly, at this point, I am not sure I see any real differences to speak of. I am going to keep playing around with it over the next few days, but early returns seem to indicate that the comcast / motorola box and the TV are pretty darn comparable when scaling broadcast content. I was hoping for more of a clear difference, and maybe it will present itself at some point, but not just yet.

Reminds me of back in the day when I got sucked in (quite happily!) to the early Oppo DV971H standard DVD player when 1080p panels were pretty rare -- the scaling capabilities of the Oppo provided a dramatic difference in image quality for standard DVDs when fed to your 720p or 1080i set - a real, demonstrable, positive difference between the typical scalers in most players and most TVs. Maybe the more commodity scalers available in typical STBs and TVs have raised their game significantly and are more bunched together in terms of performance until you step up to some of the higher end scalers available in some video components and AVRs.

Yeah, I'd read that and read a bunch of stuff when I was trying to better understand what MD was actually doing. I've come to believe that MD is a sort of "fixed formula" of dynamic image changes across the zones. DC and BE may be more "user configurable" aspects of the formula, but it's not clear if MD is doing more or is entirely a combination of software adjustments that are also enabled, wholly or partly, through manual settings of DC and BE. So I think if you're using Standard Mode, you're getting the (partial) equivalent of image modification that might happen by playing with DC and BE even when those features are off; and when you're in Movie Mode, you might get a (partial) equivalent of MD through the use of DC and BE. From a purist standpoint, that might indicate a preference to Movie Mode for accuracy within the panel's capabilities. I'm not a purist though - I just want what is most visually pleasing for me, and though I occassionally switch over to Movie Mode for awhile, I find myself gravitating back to Standard without being able to pinpoint exactly why.

Funny, I tried the picture reset on the ES7100 and the PQ did impove after the FW update.

After I re-entered my settings the blacks were darker and color more accurate.

I use Movie for Blu-rays and DirecTV, Standard for Xbox360.