Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 399

TBH i dont really notice it all that much during normal viewing will stop thinking about it and just enjoy the tv

Very very very possible. What does 10k have? Even more than model, it may be panel size an type. but I do have good improvements with this update.

Great color, man. And nice signature.

now we are talkin. It looks to me that this panel calibrated to specs has plenty of punch and isn't watered down at all. i definitely need to do this.

me?

updated 5/12/13 - settings are at the bottom of this post
This post contains my efforts at calibrating my TS01 panel 55" ES8000 with an Xrite Colormunki Display
Many thanks to Turboman, prsut, jestered, and all the awesome members of this forum for helping me figure out how to do this and offering their time and knowledge throughout

Tools used:
Forked version of HCFR: http://sourceforge.net/projects/zoyd000.u/files/downloads/ updated 2/22/13
HCFR forked version discussion thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/1380
Kal's guide to HCFR: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
AVS 709 Calibration mp4's: http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration
NVIDIA RGB FullRange Toggle - https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/523992/tip-for-nvidia-users-using-hdmi-and-getting-accurate-color-format/

NOTES ON HTPC USE
The main use of my TV is connected to HTPC. I watch cable through Windows Media Center and an HDHomeRun Prime cablecard device. My HTPC has an NVIDIA card which by default will only do 16-235 RGB range, which causes problems with video vs desktop applications. Using the toggle tool above you are able to force 0-255 mode for all video and apps. I have that toggle set to "full", and my TV and avr set to HDMI "normal" (0-255).

In NV control panel
Video->Adjust video color settings->advanced->Dynamic Range: "0-255"
Display->Adjust desktop color settings->Digital Color Format: RGB and content type: fullscreen videos

This should make it so games, web video, cable, and bluray all use the same color range. I did some spot check measures of my calibration against using the MP4's via usb stick and all looks well.

NOTES ON DYNAMIC SETTINGS
I did some limited testing on dynamic contrast, black tone, and black enhancer using the meter and the following reference images - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466036/calibrators-lets-talk-shadow-detail

Dynamic Contrast
I can see how dynamic contrast set to low might be able to enhance overall picture quality. Unfortunately it is basically impossible to "calibrate" since it is dynamic in nature. I dont think using APL patterns really helps since you are just hiding the dynamic contrast function by measuring those patterns. Having this on to any degree does appear to crush blacks to a certain extent, but the benefit is that you get a better range of bright color detail. Unfortunately it never goes the other way in providing any extra shadow detail. So maybe there is an arguable improvement, but you are really trusting that Samsung got it right in how they programmed it.
Verdict: Off, Low if you trust Samsung

Black Tone: As far as I can tell, this does nothing but crush blacks.
Verdict:Off under all circumstances

Black Enhancer
The effect of this is subtle and difficult to measure. I suspect that turning this on enables standard mode CE dimming to a degree inside movie mode. Overall contrast appears improved slightly with this on, and I cannot detect any negative impact in other readings.
Verdict: On? Off if the CE dimming in Standard mode bothers you

WHICH PICTURE MODE SHOULD I USE?
A few notes on calibrated standard mode vs movie mode now that I have been using Standard for a few days.

+Standard mode visibly and substantially reduces, but does not wholly eliminate, clouding and flashlighting due to the CE dimming effect.

+Shadows in many scenes appear "blacker". It's hard to describe but while movie mode does an excellent job of displaying all intended shadow detail, certain shades of black can sometimes appear a little "hazy". In comparison, Standard mode dark areas are deeper and more "shiny". A good area to see this is to watch a hockey game and switch between the two while paying attention to the shadows behind the glass surrounding the rink. I believe this is due to realtime gamma adjustments being done in standard mode to get as much contrast out of every scene as possible, while Movie mode has a more constant picture processing.

+Color accuracy is nearly as good in Standard Mode as movie mode. Color luminance tracking is better in standard mode, with a more linear tracking of color brightness from dark to bright. For some reason, movie mode on my set is too bright at 75% saturation and not bright enough at 100% saturation in Blue, for example.

-Brightness pops in scene transitions. I really noticed this watching Mad Men this week. There were a few quick cuts between a bright scene and then a dark one with Don in the hotel room. When the dark scene came on the TV took about a quarter of a second to adjust the backlight brightness, creating a weird effect where you see the dark scene and then its almost like someone turned down/off the lights in the room. It was distracting to me but my wife didnt notice. This is probably the biggest flaw of Standard mode.

-Some minor loss of shadow detail due to the always on dynamic contrast elements of Standard mode. Easily visible on a still image but not readily apparent in moving images.

-Bright scenes in wide aspect movies still have nearly the same level of clouding and flashlighting in the black bars on top and bottom.

-Color accuracy is worse in green, and to an extent magenta. Especially in green, the color tracking is nonlinear and has a "twist" which makes it impossible to get green the correct hue across all saturations. It is hard to say how much of this flaw is actually visible when watching content though.

-I have noticed, but not tested, that Standard mode appears to have more lag than Movie mode. I never had to adjust audio offset in my receiver in Movie mode but some content in Standard mode was just desyncd enough that it was noticeable and slightly annoying.

Conclusion: For anyone watching in a light controlled environment where they are able to set backlight somewhere around 5, Movie mode is almost certainly superior as it gives a consistent picture and at those backlight levels I see nearly no clouding or flashlighting at all.

For all other uses, and especially for people with open windows, Standard mode is a clear winner if you can get past the annoyance of occasional brightness weirdness in scene transitions.



SETTINGS:
Complete
standard mode measures.zip 4k .zip file standard mode settings 5/12/13 firmware 1051 (Click to show) Standard mode calibration charts (Click to show)
movie mode settings 4/19/2013 bt1886 gamma firmware 1048 (Click to show) Calibration charts to come. In the meantime see this post -> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399319/official-samsung-unxxes8000-owners-thread/14730#post_23222323
movie mode settings 2/24/13 bt1886 gamma (Click to show) calibration results charts (Click to show)

work in progress
Edited by 10k - 5/15/13 at 8:34am

i don't know squat about this but i have started reading lots over at the calibration thread....which didn't help me at all with this random guess.

the main difference I can see bettween your settings and jestereds is in white balance and 10p. it looks like yours have more move in the gain than his and also more, maybe offsetting, moves in 10p.

CNET's Movie settings look like they are pretty accurate. As far as their Standard settings, the Pre-Calibration snapshot is more accurate than post calibration! Look for yourself
http://www.scribd.com/doc/101755962/Samsung-UN55ES8000-CNET-review-update-with-Standard-mode-calibration

I'm still using Nitra's Standard settings, but if I remember correctly his movie mode settings were pretty much the same as his Standard settings. So I'm looking into others now. Perhaps I'll just reset the default Standard mode and stick a little closer to those settings and work from there since they look fairly decent according to the pre-calibration snapshot in the link above

Here's some action shots. Definitely looking good. Calibrated Movie mode does reveal some clouding though in very dark scenes, maybe I will try messing with the dynamic settings to see if it can help reduce the clouding without compromising the picture.

full reset ? how do you do a full reset?

OK, i am lost, whats a bladerunner update?

bladerunner is a meber here and he never updated his tv but since this last update he has thats why there calling it the bladerunner update

hello Jestered,
I have a different take on this. Luminance is affected mainly by backlight setting and contrast. And minimum black depends mainly on backlight and brightness.
Target is to have maximum contrast ratio. This can be achieved by increasing contrast and reducing backlight, for a given peak white output. Contrast can be increased as long as no clipping occurs. Clipping is most likely to show if one color drops in level at 100% on the greyscale. Samsung has set the settings of the Movie mode quite conservative in order to prevent clipping. Standard Mode is not so conservative and you have to watch out for clipping.
But for Movie mode, I think you can set contrast high. I think 10ks value of 93 is good, and I have mine at 100 (post 8007), and still no clipping. With contrast maximized without clipping, set your backlight to get the target you want.

Brightness setting: select a picture with 0%black for measuring, but the whole screen should not be black to prevent dimming. APL picture is good for that. Set a higher brightness and measure. Lower brightness and measure. Continue step by step until black level does not reduce further. The highest brightness level where you reach that lowest black is the best. If you reduce brightness further, you crush blacks without reducing minimumblack level.

Also, no point calibration color and tint. All corrections can be done in the CMS custom color settings. Do the custom color settings at 100% saturation and 75% luminance (safer in case you have some clipping at 100% luminance)

hello 10k
That looks good, apart from Gamma. Jestered has a flat Gamma, and so have I. Cant explain yours.
A non flat gamma can be caused by the panel diimming. But with special modes off this should only occur in Standard. So for Standard, use large APL patterns to prevent CE-dimming. If CE-dimmng occurs, the gamma goes up at low light output.
But anyway, you have a Movie calibration, so your Gamma curve is difficult to explain.
Have you sed AVSHD patterns burnt on a disc, payed from a Bluray player? If not, try that. If you used patterns sent from a PC, then this might be a problem. Do not rust patterns from a PC unless you have crosschecked them with another source.
I also saw you did gamut calibration at 100% luminance. Recommended would be 75% to be on the safe side of not having clipping.
Take care.
Edited by turboman123 - 2/7/13 at 1:19am

Yes it's very good as a monitor & using amazing pictures off the web fro screen saver in 1920/1080 looks amazing.
gaming is also very good, i can't believe how much detail i was missing out on in diablo 3 using a 28" monitor.
There is 1 problem tho, u will NEVER like using a reg pc monitor again, stuff is too small looking & i was having a hard time reading stuff on the web using the 28" monitor.
after i lost my 50" c8000 i hated using a small 28" monitor,you'll prolly NEEVER go back to small monitors again.

Here is the result:
1000 separate
turboman123 separate
anthony5362 same
spacerpower separate
opsguy separate
bladerunner same
nick-t separate
marcojames separate
mavinwow same
arenaman separate
derekgosselin same
thebignewt separate
sharkcohen same
mickjcat same
garnoch same
quicknik same
postroad same
fleetski same
gamermwm same
7011jrs same
sympathetic separate

If I have made no mistakes, then it is 12 for keeping the same thread, against 9 for a separate thread. Of course, anyone can start a thread and these things do not depend on a vote. However, for the sake of having a lively community with members contributing, some co-ordination is helpful. In this case it means it would be best to keep calibrated settings discussions in this thread.
Thanks for all contributors.

THX, i will try this out since i have a 55" TS01 also

jestered.
thanks for posting your metered settings.
I find them little to warm.
i have the same set. 55/ts01

jester has the 65, mine is the 55. I am going to take another pass today and try and get the calibration perfect.

Turboman, many thanks for your comments, they were very informative. I'm going to try calibrating at 75% luminance as you suggested to see if that makes a difference. I expect it will since my htpc is set to output 0-255 rgb

hello Derek,
I live in Hong Kong, and I have an Asian 55ES8000 with different firmware from North America.

Oh. sorry friend. thanks for posting 10k. I input your settings quickly before going to work and the picture seemed a little to warm. Looking forward to hearing of your futur findings with your new meter. Cheers!

I was using your setting before the 1046.2 update and loved them but now the picture looks off, are you still on the same settings?

Well i have requested a panel replacement, Sent the Tech guy some pics will hear from him tomorow, But since i have sent the pics i now see banding on regular viewing other then sports just watch NCIS and could see the banding on certain scenes


The only thing we can really do with out loosing a TV for a couple weeks is panel replacement

Where i work we dont have the 60 instock id have to order it and can take up to 2 weeks but i have to give back the current one so no TV for a couple weeks

Another way i can not go with out is to call samsung and arrange for my money back and buy the 60" at a place i know has stock and come out of it with a 700$ back in my pocket

I was even supposed to get this calibrated next thursday so i had to put that of now to

Damn decisions

Blue clips bad in movie mode. I'm hoping a good cal will fix this.

hello Derek,
I am still using the same settings, but soon I will calibrate again. I calibrated up to now with my Sony BDP350 blue-ray player, which is 5years old. I kept on to it for a long time, because it is multiregion.
But now I bought an Oppo BDP103, which for sure will be better than the old Sony. So I will calibrate again with the Oppo blue-ray player.

hey shark
I did not get blue clipping in Movie, see my post 8007 or around that.
Where did you see blue clipping in Movie?