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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 404

post #12091 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

Ok. So after many more hours of messing with this meter, I've finally finished the calibration (I think). I was aiming for the highest contrast I could get, so there were some things that suffered slightly because of it, but nothing that should be noticeable.

Here's my grayscale readings. All of excellent except the first one and it's not bad by any means, just not as good as the others. Average gamma is at 2.28 and contrast at 3,244:1, which is the highest I was able to record.

The color space is pretty good, but I wish I could get the blue and red primary colors exactly where they're supposed to be, but simply can't. I've tried everything and spent many hours trying to get those correct, but I just can't figure it out. In fact, the only way I was able to get red even close was by using the color and tint settings to set red. Otherwise, red was way off and inside the triangle. It looks like I simply need to rotate the triangle slightly using green as the anchor, but I can't figure it out. If any of you experienced calibrators know how to do that, please let me know!

Overall, I'm very happy with it. The things that are slightly off are probably not noticeable by eye, so I'm not worried about it. I'm sort of a perfectionist, so it bothers me that I can't get the color space exactly right, but...

I'll post my new settings later.

hello Jestered
That looks very good. I am especially surprised about your very high contrast ratio. Really fantastic. You have mild clipping at 100% but dE is still acceptable. But I would be happy to have this contrast ratio despite the mild clipping. So it seems you are at the limit of the Movie mode.

About the dots in the triangle , I would not worry about that. More important is to have minimum dE errors. I did not see any graph with your color dE errors. Can you add them please?
Since you have mild clipping at 100%, it would be preferable to do the color calibration at 75% luminance. Even better would be to do the calibration at 75%saturation/75%luminance. I saw now that Fork of HCFR has that capability:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/1380#post_22944530
I think it would be worth checking Fork of HCFR.

You have a mild slope in the gamma curve. Maybe due to the mild clipping. But I would not worry about that. That slope goes in the direction of a BT1886 calibration. For BT1886, see this thread, post 175. Fork of HCFR also has BT1886.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409045/how-power-law-gamma-calibration-can-lead-to-crushed-blacks/150
post #12092 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

My 55" did not exhibit this.

Hmm another user had the same prob maybe its hit or miss
post #12093 of 16125
Are Jestered's settings current after his most recent calibrations?
post #12094 of 16125
I'd like to see the settings as well to try them out.
post #12095 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

OMG...12,000 plus posts! Thank you all. What an amazing community for this amazing television.

I second that. If it wasn't for this community I wouldn't have all these wonderful settings to try and wouldn't have swapped my dodgy 65" for a sublime 60" model, I would have returned it and been unhappy.

1000
post #12096 of 16125
I had a taste of Sony's 4k tv....and it was eye candy. Best Buy Pasadena CA had it for sale at $25,000. I looked, I wiped the drool, and went home. I still like my 65es8000.
post #12097 of 16125
Hi. I only have a 40" (due to a small living room space) although should have least got the 46. Anyway I love the idea of trying your amazing settings but am I right in thinking that they re not going to 'fit' at all as panel sizes are so different. I am about to use the wow disc to calibrate but wondered whether some of the 55"/60" settings you post would e worth trying. Any thoughts?
post #12098 of 16125
Give them a go dude. Worst thing that can happen is that you don't like them.

1000
post #12099 of 16125
Any news on the 2013 models... I really want the 8000 or 7000 series 75" model.
post #12100 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebignewt View Post

Are Jestered's settings current after his most recent calibrations?

They look like the old settings.
post #12101 of 16125
I had a Firmware update yesterday, didn't know to expect that. The first thing it did without my know was delete my Apps, then after it did that then the firmware updated, then the Smarthub software updated, and then finally after about an hour my apps returned.

Anyone know what this was all about. Good news, it didn't change my calibration.

Michael

P.S. Forgot to mention earlier that this was indicated to be Firmware 0001046
Edited by sterlingma1 - 2/10/13 at 10:32am
post #12102 of 16125
OK I have reached a point where I think I'm ready to stop, unless you guys tell me I screwed up smile.gif
Loads of thanks to turboman, prsut, jestered, and the rest of you for your help and knowledge sharing so far. It has really been immense.

One quick note, the forked version of HCFR has recently been updated with better colormunki support. If you choose "image generator" instead of "dvd" as your generator then HCFR can blast out its own color patterns, which greatly speeds up reading levels vs having to do it manually. I'd estimate it saves around 5 minutes for each full reading of grayscale and color. If you do use this updated version and the built in image generator (you really should, it saves loads of time), make sure to edit the generator settings to change the window size to 30% or so of screen so that way you get window patterns instead of field patterns. I've linked the latest version in the post in my sig.

The biggest difference now is that I am only using minimal 10pt adjustments at levels 8,9,10 instead of the mess I had earlier. I also took on the advice of others and after calibrating my colors I read some posts talking about calibrating colors at 75% saturation/75% luminance. I went ahead and calibrated for those levels after calibrating my 100%/100% color levels, and then checked back on the 100% results to make sure things werent too far off.

It is funny, I had the worst time trying to get my gamma and grayscale levels set correctly, but color calibration was nearly spot on the first go-round. I estimate it took me 3-4days to get the grayscale right and maybe 2hrs for the colors, quite the opposite experience of Jestered. I wasn't able to get quite the contrast levels that Jestered got, but I think thats mostly down to the colormunki being pretty inaccurate at very low light levels. My final calibration is for 48ftl at 100% brightness, which is a little too bright, but those levels got me the best overall results.

Click the link at the bottom of my sig if you are interested in seeing the full details on my calibration process and results, and the picture settings I have settled on.

Here is a summary of settings and results, but the link in my sig has some important notes/caveats for anyone looking to try these settings out (especially the note on gamma)
Here's my results file you can load into HCFR calibrated result.zip 2k .zip file

Charts Calibration Charts (Click to show)
Grayscale results


Colorscale results


Luminance

Gamma

RGB Levels

Color Temperature

CIE

ANSI Contrast

Red Saturation

Green Saturation

Blue Saturation

Yellow Saturation

Cyan Saturation

Magenta Saturation

And the settings to get the above results: Settings (Click to show)
55" ES8000 - Panel TS01

Mode: Movie
Backlight 11
Contrast 98
Brightness 43
Sharpness 0
Color 50
Tint 50/50

ADVANCED SETTINGS
Dynamic Contrast Off (Frustrating/impossible to calibrate with this on)
Black Tone Off (same as above)
Flesh Tone 0
Motion LIghting Off
Black Enhancer Off

Color Space: Custom
(Color, R, G, B)
Red 44 2 2
Green 9 51 6
Blue 3 6 50
Yellow 53 53 3
Cyan 6 53 53
Magenta 43 6 42

White Balance (r, g, b)
Offsets - 26 25 22
Gains - 25 25 5

10p White Balance (Level, R, G, B)
7 0 0 1
8 0 0 1
9 0 0 2
10 0 0 2

Gamma +2 (see comment regarding my HTPC setup above. If you are using a cable box and/or bluray player probably set this to 0)
Motion Lighting Off
Black Enhancer Off

PICTURE OPTIONS
Color Tone Warm2
Digital/MPEG Noise Filters Off
HDMI Black Level Normal (depends on your hardware)
Film Mode Off
Auto Motion Plus Clear (personal preference)
LED Motion Plus OFF

:edit: Having just watched a few movie scenes to confirm everything I think it is debatable whether the brightness setting could be a tiny bit higher. The final scene of dark knight rises where he is walking through the water in the cave just before the credits was losing some shadow detail that I could see if I turned the brightness up to 44. 45 started to raise the overall brightness of "black" and didnt really add much additional detail in the dark areas. Of course, this is all with my face 6" from the screen examining tiny color highlights on water splashing off rocks so who knows if it makes a difference from couch length. I'm certainly not going to rerun all the tests and recreate all of those charts for just this but I thought I would throw it out there for anyone trying my settings and maybe wanting a tiny bit more brightness/detail in the darkest areas. I wouldnt go above 45 bright with these settings though.
Edited by 10k - 2/10/13 at 11:42am
post #12103 of 16125
:10k

your cms is outsanding, out of this world. Respect.
post #12104 of 16125
I am getting ready to jump on the bandwagon and get a colormunki as well. I have a 7500 so it would be interesting to see the difference.
post #12105 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by prsut View Post

:10k

your cms is outsanding, out of this world. Respect.
Thanks man, your comments really helped me out so respect to you as well.

I tried to take some readings in standard mode but I dont know if it will be possible to calibrate quickly with HCFR pattern generator. The CE dimming really does a number on the contrast/gamma readings. I will try and look at standard mode but it is going to be slow going since I think I will have to manually read APL clipping patterns to try and defeat the CE dimming. I dont even know if thats the right way to go though since in "real" content, dark scenes may be off and bright ones may be off since I would have calibrated for an average brightness scenario. I dont know if its even worth it to try and calibrate Standard mode...

Also, it looks like CMS settings are global and not mode specific. So keep that in mind if you are messing with settings and switching between Standard/Movie/etc
post #12106 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

OK I have reached a point where I think I'm ready to stop, unless you guys tell me I screwed up smile.gif
Loads of thanks to turboman, prsut, jestered, and the rest of you for your help and knowledge sharing so far. It has really been immense.

One quick note, the forked version of HCFR has recently been updated with better colormunki support. If you choose "image generator" instead of "dvd" as your generator then HCFR can blast out its own color patterns, which greatly speeds up reading levels vs having to do it manually. I'd estimate it saves around 5 minutes for each full reading of grayscale and color. If you do use this updated version and the built in image generator (you really should, it saves loads of time), make sure to edit the generator settings to change the window size to 30% or so of screen so that way you get window patterns instead of field patterns. I've linked the latest version in the post in my sig.

The biggest difference now is that I am only using minimal 10pt adjustments at levels 8,9,10 instead of the mess I had earlier. I also took on the advice of others and after calibrating my colors I read some posts talking about calibrating colors at 75% saturation/75% luminance. I went ahead and calibrated for those levels after calibrating my 100%/100% color levels, and then checked back on the 100% results to make sure things werent too far off.

It is funny, I had the worst time trying to get my gamma and grayscale levels set correctly, but color calibration was nearly spot on the first go-round. I estimate it took me 3-4days to get the grayscale right and maybe 2hrs for the colors, quite the opposite experience of Jestered. I wasn't able to get quite the contrast levels that Jestered got, but I think thats mostly down to the colormunki being pretty inaccurate at very low light levels. My final calibration is for 48ftl at 100% brightness, which is a little too bright, but those levels got me the best overall results.

Click the link at the bottom of my sig if you are interested in seeing the full details on my calibration process and results, and the picture settings I have settled on.

Here is a summary of settings and results, but the link in my sig has some important notes/caveats for anyone looking to try these settings out (especially the note on gamma)
Here's my results file you can load into HCFR calibrated result.zip 2k .zip file

Charts Calibration Charts (Click to show)
Grayscale results


Colorscale results


Luminance

Gamma

RGB Levels

Color Temperature

CIE

ANSI Contrast

Red Saturation

Green Saturation

Blue Saturation

Yellow Saturation

Cyan Saturation

Magenta Saturation

And the settings to get the above results: Settings (Click to show)
55" ES8000 - Panel TS01

Mode: Movie
Backlight 11
Contrast 98
Brightness 43
Sharpness 0
Color 50
Tint 50/50

ADVANCED SETTINGS
Dynamic Contrast Off (Frustrating/impossible to calibrate with this on)
Black Tone Off (same as above)
Flesh Tone 0
Motion LIghting Off
Black Enhancer Off

Color Space: Custom
(Color, R, G, B)
Red 44 2 2
Green 9 51 6
Blue 3 6 50
Yellow 53 53 3
Cyan 6 53 53
Magenta 43 6 42

White Balance (r, g, b)
Offsets - 26 25 22
Gains - 25 25 5

10p White Balance (Level, R, G, B)
7 0 0 1
8 0 0 1
9 0 0 2
10 0 0 2

Gamma +2 (see comment regarding my HTPC setup above. If you are using a cable box and/or bluray player probably set this to 0)
Motion Lighting Off
Black Enhancer Off

PICTURE OPTIONS
Color Tone Warm2
Digital/MPEG Noise Filters Off
HDMI Black Level Normal (depends on your hardware)
Film Mode Off
Auto Motion Plus Clear (personal preference)
LED Motion Plus OFF

:edit: Having just watched a few movie scenes to confirm everything I think it is debatable whether the brightness setting could be a tiny bit higher. The final scene of dark knight rises where he is walking through the water in the cave just before the credits was losing some shadow detail that I could see if I turned the brightness up to 44. 45 started to raise the overall brightness of "black" and didnt really add much additional detail in the dark areas. Of course, this is all with my face 6" from the screen examining tiny color highlights on water splashing off rocks so who knows if it makes a difference from couch length. I'm certainly not going to rerun all the tests and recreate all of those charts for just this but I thought I would throw it out there for anyone trying my settings and maybe wanting a tiny bit more brightness/detail in the darkest areas. I wouldnt go above 45 bright with these settings though.

Thanks 10K, these are the best movie settings I've seen. I've tapped them in using gamma at +2, changed warm 2 to standard and knocked backlight up to 14 and this is very close to my standard settings without the dimming.
Edited by arenaman - 2/10/13 at 1:49pm
post #12107 of 16125
So I bought an i1D3 and will play around with it when I get a chance. I will likely buy calman as I think I need some more hand-holding than HCFR will give me.
post #12108 of 16125
The more I read the more you posted so thanks to our neighbor giving me a strong cappuccino, I was awake most of the night and finally got caught up after being south for awhile. LOL

I can see why people want a new thread in order to focus on best settings. I had this middle of night brainwave that we could create a master document in a table (doc file) and enter the settings in a standardized format. So I spent the better part of this afternoon resetting my 65 and copying out the settings for my model and panel in a table format (I use Open Office). I entered all the default settings for Standard, Movie and Natural in a 2-page table. This took awhile as my PC and TV are at opposite ends of the house. My thinking was that members could delete the default data and then enter their own settings for their model and panel and then we could keep adding to it and updating it, like Garnoch does with the Guide. That way we could have an ever growing document of settings for different panels and based on calibrations, personal preferences, good luck, etc. It would be a standardized work in progress.

The problem, probably anticipated by many of you, is where to store this document so we can all access it and add to it. It'd be great if a file can be attached somewhere to this thread. Or perhaps someone has a website and they could store it and give us all acess to it. There are online services like this and I used one last year at work but can't remember what it was (it's been awhile). Anyways, I did my anal part and created a default master document of settings for the UNxxES8000. Now we need a storage and access solution.

Cheers,
Canadian
post #12109 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian55 View Post

The more I read the more you posted so thanks to our neighbor giving me a strong cappuccino, I was awake most of the night and finally got caught up after being south for awhile. LOL

I can see why people want a new thread in order to focus on best settings. I had this middle of night brainwave that we could create a master document in a table (doc file) and enter the settings in a standardized format. So I spent the better part of this afternoon resetting my 65 and copying out the settings for my model and panel in a table format (I use Open Office). I entered all the default settings for Standard, Movie and Natural in a 2-page table. This took awhile as my PC and TV are at opposite ends of the house. My thinking was that members could delete the default data and then enter their own settings for their model and panel and then we could keep adding to it and updating it, like Garnoch does with the Guide. That way we could have an ever growing document of settings for different panels and based on calibrations, personal preferences, good luck, etc. It would be a standardized work in progress.

The problem, probably anticipated by many of you, is where to store this document so we can all access it and add to it. It'd be great if a file can be attached somewhere to this thread. Or perhaps someone has a website and they could store it and give us all acess to it. There are online services like this and I used one last year at work but can't remember what it was (it's been awhile). Anyways, I did my anal part and created a default master document of settings for the UNxxES8000. Now we need a storage and access solution.

Cheers,
Canadian

you could make a public google doc spreadsheet
post #12110 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwalker1974 View Post

They look like the old settings.

I've updated the settings and calibration charts to my latest. The link in my signature will get you there.
post #12111 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

OK I have reached a point where I think I'm ready to stop, unless you guys tell me I screwed up smile.gif
Loads of thanks to turboman, prsut, jestered, and the rest of you for your help and knowledge sharing so far. It has really been immense.

10k! Your calibration is sick! Next weekend I'm going to make sure my saturation levels all match up. I ran the meter on them and they all seem pretty spot on except for magenta. The lower saturation levels are pulling towards red a bit. Looking at my CS settings for magenta I can see why. That should be an easy fix, but will have to wait until next weekend. How long did it take you to get those all set? I updated my settings (signature link) and posted my HCFR file if you want to take a look. I know you wanted to see something in there to find out how I was getting a higher contrast than you, so... Anyway, nice job!
Edited by Jestered - 2/10/13 at 3:44pm
post #12112 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

hello Jestered
That looks very good. I am especially surprised about your very high contrast ratio. Really fantastic. You have mild clipping at 100% but dE is still acceptable. But I would be happy to have this contrast ratio despite the mild clipping. So it seems you are at the limit of the Movie mode.

About the dots in the triangle , I would not worry about that. More important is to have minimum dE errors. I did not see any graph with your color dE errors. Can you add them please?
Since you have mild clipping at 100%, it would be preferable to do the color calibration at 75% luminance. Even better would be to do the calibration at 75%saturation/75%luminance. I saw now that Fork of HCFR has that capability:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/1380#post_22944530
I think it would be worth checking Fork of HCFR.

You have a mild slope in the gamma curve. Maybe due to the mild clipping. But I would not worry about that. That slope goes in the direction of a BT1886 calibration. For BT1886, see this thread, post 175. Fork of HCFR also has BT1886.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409045/how-power-law-gamma-calibration-can-lead-to-crushed-blacks/150


Thanks Turbo! I actually just changed mine again because I was wanting to get rid of the clipping. I think it's set pretty dang good, but it did drop my contrast a little. It's still pretty high though, so I'm ok with that. I'm going to try the 75% saturation calibration, but need to a break from this meter for a few days. Plus my wife is getting very tired of seeing colored squares on the TV all the time. I'll probably do that calibration next weekend and will update my settings then. I also added updated the screenshots of the calibration readings if you want to see the dE errors.
Edited by Jestered - 2/10/13 at 3:18pm
post #12113 of 16125
Haven't been on for a while so I wanted to get a quick update. My 65" is still on firmware 1035 panel AH01. Should I update to the latest firmware? Factory reset before updating? Thanks.
post #12114 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

you could make a public google doc spreadsheet

Never done that before. If anybody else wants to carry the torch for a settings document I could send you the doc file that I have which lists all the default settings for 1046.2.

BTW - people have been showing their setups. I knew I was going to upgrade my main HT downstairs eventually so in the meantime we set up a small HT upstairs and it had to satisfy my better half because it was in the main living area. So we hid wires in walls and I hid the 3 main speakers behind the TV. It's not ideal from an audio point of view but looks decent. The surround speakers are in the ceiling behind the main seating area so we can enjoy TV and music in the open kitchen as well as have 5.1. We didn't think a TV so high above the fireplace would work but we're used to it and it hasn't been that bad. It works really well when you're in the kitchen at more of a distance.



Here is the main HT in the basement. Everyone comments that the TV looks too low but I centered it directly for the eyes when sitting and then people get it when they sit down. The AVR is a new Yamaha and the 3 front speakers are Energy Act 100 W ones from the original HT. Together with a pile of Monoprice ceiling speakers the audio is pretty decent. I have the 65" MH02 from Nov. and I've had 9 people in the HT on 1 front and 2 side sofa's and the viewing angle is okay.



Hey, I was just learning how to upload pictures to the forum and saw that there is a paperclip for attachments. I'll attach the settings file and see if it goes anywhere. Hope it works.
Cheers,
Canadian

Samsung UNxxES8000 Settings.doc 38k .doc file
post #12115 of 16125
Nice setups, canadian! I can see if I can make this a public doc for us ...
post #12116 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post

Nice setups, canadian! I can see if I can make this a public doc for us ...

here's the public link, someone with some spreadsheet know-how should have a look and make sure it's optimally configured:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah17fhDrSz0ldE42VnJUaUV6ZHVfNU5iNEE2bG5oaUE&usp=sharing

edit: sorry, wasn't editable, is now. adjusted for easier viewing as well
Edited by galonzo - 2/10/13 at 6:44pm
post #12117 of 16125
Since I'm on a roll, I finally got around to getting some pictures of the 65" MH02 Nov. build.

The first is the test picture.



Then news and sports from cable.




Then Blu-ray.



Finally, Netflix streamed by the Samsung 8000.




All are default settings from the reset I did today. I think they were all on Movie Mode. Phew; time to go enjoy the Grammys!
post #12118 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyjake View Post

Haven't been on for a while so I wanted to get a quick update. My 65" is still on firmware 1035 panel AH01. Should I update to the latest firmware? Factory reset before updating? Thanks.

YES!!!! Allow me to copy/paste/edit what I said a couple days ago:

FirmWare 1046.2 performance update: I did my first FW upgrade from my original 1013.2 that came with the tv back in June 2012.

First, regarding "reset". I firmly believe it's nessessary to do a full reset from within the "Support" menue, then "self diagnose", then the "reset" option that requires a password entry. I only did resets from within each input however while enjoying the great benefits of the FW update I did see some odd behaviour with regard to motion, jitter and blurr in odd places as well as the vertical edge of picture. It had a very subtle fraying effect at times on action and panning. I almost remorsed my decision to run the update until i did the proper full reset.

Full Reset has resolved those issues. It puts you back to the startup mode as to when you turned the tv on for the first time. Right or wrong of whether we should have to do the full reset after a fw upgrade really is not the question. Just do it.

Okay, the FW has definately been an excellent upgrade to a picture quality that I thought was amazing already.
-Flashlight, although minimal and tolerable prior to the update, it truly is almost completely gone in 2D to the point of 99.99999 gone if that makes sense...
-Blacks are definately deeper while maintaining excellent shadow detail. Very plasma ish looking blacks w/o dithering etc. CSI Vegas has never looked so crazy vivid and detailed at night as it did this week...I am convinced all dimming is controllable via sofware...
-Letterbox bars are absolutely deeper and more uniformly black...
-Audio, I swear I hear richer and more detailed audio being output from the tv to my soundbar
-Color ir somewhat richer and i absolutely notice more detail and texture in hot colors such as fuscia, red and orange garments

I love this update. The tv NOW is truly ready for the "purists", "the reviewers" to revisit...not that I ever cared what they said. Any plasma owner looking at this now will be stunned, and see the blacks they cant deny, and how it compliments all the other strenghts of this LED .

In short, run the FW update to 1046.2, do the full reset from the "self diagnose" section and then tweak from the defaults....amazing!!! Okay, time to watch some hockey before the Walking Dead!!!!
post #12119 of 16125
Love your rigs Canadian!
post #12120 of 16125
@ Canadian55

Love your setup dude.

Looks like you dont have any verticle banding at all on that mh02 panel

Mine is pittyfull cant stand it and samsung are giving me the run around
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