Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 405

Originally Posted by galonzo 


here's the public link, someone with some spreadsheet know-how should have a look and make sure it's optimally configured:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah17fhDrSz0ldE42VnJUaUV6ZHVfNU5iNEE2bG5oaUE&usp=sharing

edit: sorry, wasn't editable, is now. adjusted for easier viewing as well

Originally Posted by Jestered 

Thanks Turbo! I actually just changed mine again because I was wanting to get rid of the clipping. I think it's set pretty dang good, but it did drop my contrast a little. It's still pretty high though, so I'm ok with that. I'm going to try the 75% saturation calibration, but need to a break from this meter for a few days. Plus my wife is getting very tired of seeing colored squares on the TV all the time. I'll probably do that calibration next weekend and will update my settings then. I also added updated the screenshots of the calibration readings if you want to see the dE errors.

Originally Posted by Jestered 

10k! Your calibration is sick! Next weekend I'm going to make sure my saturation levels all match up. I ran the meter on them and they all seem pretty spot on except for magenta. The lower saturation levels are pulling towards red a bit. Looking at my CS settings for magenta I can see why. That should be an easy fix, but will have to wait until next weekend. How long did it take you to get those all set? I updated my settings (signature link) and posted my HCFR file if you want to take a look. I know you wanted to see something in there to find out how I was getting a higher contrast than you, so... Anyway, nice job!

Color Space- Custom
Red- 78-0-0
Green- 2-30-15
Blue- 2-8-50
Yellow- 56-36-12
Cyan- 0-32-49
Magenta- 100-5-55

Originally Posted by Mavinwow 

So I bought an i1D3 and will play around with it when I get a chance. I will likely buy calman as I think I need some more hand-holding than HCFR will give me.

Originally Posted by 10k 

OK I have reached a point where I think I'm ready to stop, unless you guys tell me I screwed up
Loads of thanks to turboman, prsut, jestered, and the rest of you for your help and knowledge sharing so far. It has really been immense.

One quick note, the forked version of HCFR has recently been updated with better colormunki support. If you choose "image generator" instead of "dvd" as your generator then HCFR can blast out its own color patterns, which greatly speeds up reading levels vs having to do it manually. I'd estimate it saves around 5 minutes for each full reading of grayscale and color. If you do use this updated version and the built in image generator (you really should, it saves loads of time), make sure to edit the generator settings to change the window size to 30% or so of screen so that way you get window patterns instead of field patterns. I've linked the latest version in the post in my sig.

The biggest difference now is that I am only using minimal 10pt adjustments at levels 8,9,10 instead of the mess I had earlier. I also took on the advice of others and after calibrating my colors I read some posts talking about calibrating colors at 75% saturation/75% luminance. I went ahead and calibrated for those levels after calibrating my 100%/100% color levels, and then checked back on the 100% results to make sure things werent too far off.

It is funny, I had the worst time trying to get my gamma and grayscale levels set correctly, but color calibration was nearly spot on the first go-round. I estimate it took me 3-4days to get the grayscale right and maybe 2hrs for the colors, quite the opposite experience of Jestered. I wasn't able to get quite the contrast levels that Jestered got, but I think thats mostly down to the colormunki being pretty inaccurate at very low light levels. My final calibration is for 48ftl at 100% brightness, which is a little too bright, but those levels got me the best overall results.

Click the link at the bottom of my sig if you are interested in seeing the full details on my calibration process and results, and the picture settings I have settled on.

Here is a summary of settings and results, but the link in my sig has some important notes/caveats for anyone looking to try these settings out (especially the note on gamma)
Here's my results file you can load into HCFR calibrated result.zip 2k .zip file

Charts Calibration Charts (Click to show)
And the settings to get the above results: Settings (Click to show)
:edit: Having just watched a few movie scenes to confirm everything I think it is debatable whether the brightness setting could be a tiny bit higher. The final scene of dark knight rises where he is walking through the water in the cave just before the credits was losing some shadow detail that I could see if I turned the brightness up to 44. 45 started to raise the overall brightness of "black" and didnt really add much additional detail in the dark areas. Of course, this is all with my face 6" from the screen examining tiny color highlights on water splashing off rocks so who knows if it makes a difference from couch length. I'm certainly not going to rerun all the tests and recreate all of those charts for just this but I thought I would throw it out there for anyone trying my settings and maybe wanting a tiny bit more brightness/detail in the darkest areas. I wouldnt go above 45 bright with these settings though.

Originally Posted by 10k 

Put another way, I try to calibrate my xy coordinates first and get accurate xy reading. After that I focus on the luminance and try to add other colors evenly to boost luminance (Y) without changing xy coordinates too much.

Originally Posted by galonzo 

here's the public link, someone with some spreadsheet know-how should have a look and make sure it's optimally configured:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah17fhDrSz0ldE42VnJUaUV6ZHVfNU5iNEE2bG5oaUE&usp=sharing

edit: sorry, wasn't editable, is now. adjusted for easier viewing as well

Originally Posted by galonzo 

I added 10k's settings as an example, as well as adding a "Calibrated?" field. Also, I realized this is a great way to compare settings; anybody have any ideas as to how we can make this link available to all?

Originally Posted by turboman123 

Hmmm, not really sure that is the best way.
Most important is to get dE error minimum. dE error is a combination of x error, y error and luminance error. So I would not give x,y (point on graph) priority over luminance. Actually, from what I have read in the calibration section, luminance is the most important.
How to minimize dE error? I use Chromapure, and there RGB error is shown together with dE. It makes it easier to know which channel to adjust R, G or B.
I don't think HCFR can do that. In that case I would do the following:

Assume you have a setting for red RGB=50, 5, 5.
I would try to correct green first with correction -1, 0, +1. So green setting 4, 5 or 6. I would select the setting with minimum dE.
Next, I would do the same with red correction.
Next blue correction.
Then I would repeat: G->R->B, and again G->R->B, over and over again until dE cannot be reduced any further.

I will also say that the settings posted by 10K are pretty amazing. Thank you! I did bump my sharpness up to 16, not sure if it makes much difference.

Originally Posted by galonzo 

I added 10k's settings as an example, as well as adding a "Calibrated?" field. Also, I realized this is a great way to compare settings; anybody have any ideas as to how we can make this link available to all?

Originally Posted by galonzo 

I added 10k's settings as an example, as well as adding a "Calibrated?" field. Also, I realized this is a great way to compare settings; anybody have any ideas as to how we can make this link available to all?

Originally Posted by 10k 

Anyway I was looking at your settings and noticed something that should help you with getting better color:
Taking red as an example, I think what you probably saw was that at 50-0-0 that red had the right color coordinates but not enough luminance, so you jacked up the red setting to "add more red". This is the way I was doing things at first but what I found was that doing things that way really introduced a lot of error in the 50-75% saturation and luminance of color channels. I think this is basically what is leading to the clipping you were discussing.

Originally Posted by 10k 

That was my basic method for my configuration. Overall I probably put in 20hrs getting my grayscale acceptable and maybe 2hrs configuring colors. I guess I got lucky on the CMS, but also that first chunk of time had a lot of learning involved. Hopefully that makes sense and thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by 10k 

Ah you explained it much better than me. HCFR reports dE as well but I dont know if the option to calculate dE including gamma offset is actually working since toggling that switch doesnt change my dE values. I actually calculated my 75/75 colors using the GCD spreadsheet, which just had suggested xy coordinates and Y values. After hitting those numbers I checked dE in HCFR to confirm the setting. It sounds like Chromapure is much better software. Personally I could not justify the cost of getting a more expensive meter and paying for software in addition.

Originally Posted by 10k 

I looked into that bt1886 gamma and found a thread in this forum (calibration forum i think? i lost the link). The discussion got way too technical for me to understand, but it sounded like some people were saying that bt1886 only works if you have a display which can output zero light for true black (e.g. OLED display). Maybe it isnt as good for LCD/LED lit displays. I will look into it at a future date, my wife has had enough of strange color boxes on the tv all the time

Originally Posted by turboman123 

hello Jestered
Greyscale looks good. I saw that you dropped light output a bit, and clipping reduced a bit. If you do not have problems with flashlighting, then that is OK. On my panel, I have flashlighting and I am sensitive towards that. For that reason, on my panel, I prefer to increase contrast and reduce backlight, because it makes flashlighting less visible for a given peak white.
But if you do not have problems with flashlighting, then your setting is better.
I find the some custom color settings a bit strange, like red 78-0-0 and magenta 100-5-55. Try following settings: a) find good movie for wife, b) honey, would you like to see this with fantastic colors? and c) get calibrating.

Originally Posted by 10k 

Thanks man, your comments really helped me out so respect to you as well.

I tried to take some readings in standard mode but I dont know if it will be possible to calibrate quickly with HCFR pattern generator. The CE dimming really does a number on the contrast/gamma readings. I will try and look at standard mode but it is going to be slow going since I think I will have to manually read APL clipping patterns to try and defeat the CE dimming. I dont even know if thats the right way to go though since in "real" content, dark scenes may be off and bright ones may be off since I would have calibrated for an average brightness scenario. I dont know if its even worth it to try and calibrate Standard mode...

Also, it looks like CMS settings are global and not mode specific. So keep that in mind if you are messing with settings and switching between Standard/Movie/etc

Originally Posted by prsut 

Yes, this is very important. Color space is shared per input, so for allshare (forexample playing usb disc) film & standard shares the same color space. But for 3d, color space is independant for the same input.

Calibrating standard is another level.
Objective of calibrating standard is 1. proper white balance, 2. select best color space , prevent CE dimming. At least for first two I think calibrate is worth it.
- my steps >
- reset settings MANUALLY (to preserve custom color space)
-set brightness at 52 (fixed)
-set color at film mode color - 5
-using color clipping pattern find max contrast (for me about 90-95). at least 235 bar should be ok.
-using black clipping pattern set RGB offset (first with green , then red/blue)
- take initial readings to find best gamma (after each gamma change again do previous step ) gamma 0 works for me.
-measure and set 2pt whitebalance - do not move green
- measure primaries and secondaries to see if cusom or auto is better. (use color and tint to tweak)
- now again check color clipping patter and set brightness (at least 235 should be ok, I have 249 OK for contrast 93)
- measure near black levels in continuous mode and look at luminance if RGB offsets are OK (0% should be minimal Y (you can use brighness control to find minimal value at given backlight), and 1-2% should have + readings) - or use black clipping pattern. At this point you can set brighness 52 +/-1 (max -2, do not go under 50) and CE dimming will be ok.

-visual check : find some scene with good shadow details, pause, switch between film and standard to decide if blacks are ok. If you need to set rgb offset again, move green first, measure and set whitebalance with 20% pattern, then check 80%.

Now we are ready to do work on 3d.........

Originally Posted by Ricoflashback 

I have the UN65ES8000. I couldn't be happier. It 's a real joy to watch sports, news, movies and especially 3D on this set.

Not that it didn't come with problems:

(1) First set purchased from Paul's TV was damaged in shipping. Container had a crease on the upper right hand side - - gee, that's where the problem was!

(2) Paul's TV replaced with no questions asked. Second TV had serious vertical banding. Sent picture in to Samsung - - document everything you do. Samsung phone support is worthless - - they should just have it computerized. Even if it's a nickel and hour and overseas - - still paying too much money. Originally scheduled for a panel replacement with local, authorized Samsung repair shop. Took too long and Samsung said they would replace, exchange or refund. I opted for a new replacement.

(3) Third set a charm....so far. Very minimal vertical banding. Stunning, I mean absolutely stunning picture. Old movies look like they were filmed yesterday - - incredibly vivid. Kitty looks fabulous on the series "Boss" (for Anthony :>) Football is great - - NFL ticket in HD puts you in the game. And 3D?? Out of this world. A totally new viewing experience. My girlfriend wasn't interested in 3D until she watched "The Avengers" with me. Now she asks "when are we watching another movie in 3D?"

Buying tips:

Make sure you have recourse - - either a reputable retailer or an online service like Amazon. If problems occur - - you'll want them fixed to your 100% satisfaction.

My experience with Samsung support (outside of phone support) has been excellent. They back their products. Sure, it might take some effort to get through - - but always, ALWAYS document via Email and their website.

Obtain extended warranty - - Costco is great. 4 years via SquareTrade and you do not have to purchase from Costco. (Five years warranty if purchased via Costco)

Lastly - - when I started looking for a new TV to replace my Samsung 56" DLP - - I thought that $2K, maybe $2.5K was tops. Then, I saw the Sammy set. I was able to finance the bulk of the purchase after a $1K payment for 30 months - no interest via GE Capital. I'll pay it off before then, but I wanted the option.

I looked at the much ballyhooed Panasonic VT50 Plasma. Absolute junk in my opinion. I've already gotten in to a couple pissing matches with so called "videophiles" and even professional calibrators about that set. CNET (Katzmier) gave it an outstanding review. I think he's out of his mind. The 3D was horrific. The picture was dull and lifeless. But gee, it's sure accurate! Give me a break...

I also looked at the Sharp series - - but the picture was not that sharp, excuse the pun. And the 3D was so so.

Whatever you do - - make sure you have recourse for whatever your purchase and make sure to see, in person, the TV you are going to buy. Look at as many channels as you can. Test out the 3D. Then, drive the best price you can and ENJOY !!!

Hope this helps - Rico

Originally Posted by turboman123 

hello galonzo
That is good stuff. Thanks. Where do you see the problem of making the link available to all? I could open the link, and I could enter and save values. No problem.
I just made a try using the table. I will add my calibrated values later.

Originally Posted by 10k 

That is a pretty cool spreadsheet. It will be interesting to see what others have come up with. I'd suggest you add a "notes" field as well for extra info. For example, on my settings there should be a note to use gamma=0 unless you are using an NVIDIA based HTPC which is outputting 0-255 color range RGB (in which case nvidia graphics card outputs gamma=2.5 instead of 2.2). People with cable box/dish/ATI HTPC (maybe?) probably should use gamma=0. Maybe you could also link back to the post with the settings for reference as well. I know jestered and garnoch have updated their original settings posts a few times as well.

cheers
10k

Originally Posted by canadian55 


Way to move things forward, Galonzo. As this thing gets wings it would be great if the models could be grouped together so, for example if you have a 55" panel you could compare all the 55" settings and so on. I"ll keep mine on default until a few 65" 1046.2 settings show up on the list. Great forum!

Originally Posted by Browninggold 

Since Samsung as the Unilateral pricing the same as Sony there isn't any wiggle room for deals @ Authorized dealers. So I was talking with a salesman from Pauls TV and he is pretty knowledgeable on the displays. Frequents this forum and HDJ. With my current setup I could fit the 55" better than the 60". BUT the salesman just did the update on both the 55" and 60" and he sees better PQ on the 60". He isn't sure if its a bad 55" or because of the 60" having more zones or backlighting etc...not sure of his exact wording. What do you think? Go with the 60"? Looking for suggestions input. He also said he really likes the Panasonic WT50 PQ also. I know this is a Samsung thread but has anyone heard good or bad on the Panasonic. Not a whole lot of info out on the WT50. Not even on this site. Thanks Browning

Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 

YES!!!! Allow me to copy/paste/edit what I said a couple days ago:

FirmWare 1046.2 performance update: I did my first FW upgrade from my original 1013.2 that came with the tv back in June 2012.

First, regarding "reset". I firmly believe it's nessessary to do a full reset from within the "Support" menue, then "self diagnose", then the "reset" option that requires a password entry. I only did resets from within each input however while enjoying the great benefits of the FW update I did see some odd behaviour with regard to motion, jitter and blurr in odd places as well as the vertical edge of picture. It had a very subtle fraying effect at times on action and panning. I almost remorsed my decision to run the update until i did the proper full reset.

Full Reset has resolved those issues. It puts you back to the startup mode as to when you turned the tv on for the first time. Right or wrong of whether we should have to do the full reset after a fw upgrade really is not the question. Just do it.

Okay, the FW has definately been an excellent upgrade to a picture quality that I thought was amazing already.
-Flashlight, although minimal and tolerable prior to the update, it truly is almost completely gone in 2D to the point of 99.99999 gone if that makes sense...
-Blacks are definately deeper while maintaining excellent shadow detail. Very plasma ish looking blacks w/o dithering etc. CSI Vegas has never looked so crazy vivid and detailed at night as it did this week...I am convinced all dimming is controllable via sofware...
-Letterbox bars are absolutely deeper and more uniformly black...
-Audio, I swear I hear richer and more detailed audio being output from the tv to my soundbar
-Color ir somewhat richer and i absolutely notice more detail and texture in hot colors such as fuscia, red and orange garments

I love this update. The tv NOW is truly ready for the "purists", "the reviewers" to revisit...not that I ever cared what they said. Any plasma owner looking at this now will be stunned, and see the blacks they cant deny, and how it compliments all the other strenghts of this LED .

In short, run the FW update to 1046.2, do the full reset from the "self diagnose" section and then tweak from the defaults....amazing!!! Okay, time to watch some hockey before the Walking Dead!!!!

Originally Posted by kaosx77 

i know banding doesnt go away but for some reason i dont think its as bad as it normally is

Do you guys think there is a chance of me getting a better 65" if not ill fight with samsung some more and drop to a 60?


Just wondering what you guys think

Light on





Lights Off






This pic is the first day i had it

Originally Posted by cmay91472 

That is pretty bad banding. Not sure you will be able to tolerate that in the future as you discover more and more instances of it rearing its ugly head. Have you tested panning shots of sports like soccer, hockey or NFL football?

I think you will be much happier with a 60 if you don't mind the decrease in screen size or slight drop in 3D quality.