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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 442

post #13231 of 16126
I finally received my 55" ES8000 early this morning! So far the set, from a QC stand point, gets two thumbs up. Flash-lighting: Unnoticeable unless I am standing ontop of the set looking down at the bottom border. Clouding: I haven't done any of the still picture tests, but if there is any I don't notice that either. The most important thing is the LACK OF PLASMA BUZZ. I didn't realize how annoying that was until it was gone.

I set the set up using the stand, I wish it swiveled but that's a minor thing. I did the f/w update to 1047 and did the reset thing. I'm using 10k's Movie Mode Settings and I've watched Top Gun 3D, The Lorax 3D, The Amazing Spiderman, Skyfall, Airplane! and Avatar... I must say I'm very happy, it is everything I hoped the PN51E8000 was going to be without the inconveniences that come with owning Plasma. biggrin.gif
post #13232 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

To my fellow calibrators... I'm totally happy with my last results, but was looking over my readings today and am wondering if I should do some things to get my gamma (BT.1886) better. I've never done anything to intentionally modify my gamma curve, so it's basically sitting where my grayscale calibration left it. I don't think it's bad and it's along the right curve, but if I can get it better, why not?

I just started reading up on how to calibrate gamma and it sounds pretty simple using the 10PT adjustments, but was wondering if any of you made 10PT adjustments for gamma curve and how difficult it is.

Also, I got to thinking about the green Gain that some of us are using, and how much more contrast we're getting because of it, and began to wonder why not lower the Offset for green also until it starts clipping? Wouldn't we be able to get even more contrast out of our TVs by doing that?
For adjusting the shape of the gamma curve just go into 10pt adjustments and change the green element, then balance red and blue afterwards to minimise dE. On your second question, I think it would probably be better to just lower brightness instead of doing what you suggest. My understanding is that the reason for going in and doing green gain adjustments is because contrast 100 isnt clipping and you cant turn contrast higher. At black 45 I'm starting to clip black so thats the best the display can do.

:edit: If you look at turboman's settings you can see in his 10pt adjustments at 1 and 2 he's doing +6 and +4 rgb at 1 and 2, respectively (if i remember) to adjust the shape of the curve.
post #13233 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

For adjusting the shape of the gamma curve just go into 10pt adjustments and change the green element, then balance red and blue afterwards to minimise dE. On your second question, I think it would probably be better to just lower brightness instead of doing what you suggest. My understanding is that the reason for going in and doing green gain adjustments is because contrast 100 isnt clipping and you cant turn contrast higher. At black 45 I'm starting to clip black so thats the best the display can do.

:edit: If you look at turboman's settings you can see in his 10pt adjustments at 1 and 2 he's doing +6 and +4 rgb at 1 and 2, respectively (if i remember) to adjust the shape of the curve.

Thanks 10k. What I read is that the gamma is basically the luminance at that grayscale level. To raise the gamma up (raise luminance) at a certain point you can simply raise all red, green and blue settings the same amount for that point. It should basically raise luminance without really doing anything to the x and y levels. Is that what you're saying also?
post #13234 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

Thanks 10k. What I read is that the gamma is basically the luminance at that grayscale level. To raise the gamma up (raise luminance) at a certain point you can simply raise all red, green and blue settings the same amount for that point. It should basically raise luminance without really doing anything to the x and y levels. Is that what you're saying also?
Yes that is what I'm saying but I've found that especially at the low end with our sets you end up having to do things like +012 or whatever to keep things in balance which is why I said do green first and then balance red and blue after.
post #13235 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Yes that is what I'm saying but I've found that especially at the low end with our sets you end up having to do things like +012 or whatever to keep things in balance which is why I said do green first and then balance red and blue after.

Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to make sure I know what I'm getting into before starting. I should set the gamma curve using the 10PT green setting, then come back and fix the red and green levels across the scale? Green is setting gamma curve on its own?

Oh and that makes perfect sense about the offset idea/question I had. I wasn't thinking about it right, but get it now.
Edited by Jestered - 3/6/13 at 4:39pm
post #13236 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to make sure I know what I'm getting into before starting. I should set the gamma curve using the 10PT green setting, then come back and fix the red and green levels across the scale? Green is setting gamma curve on its own?

Oh and that makes perfect sense about the offset idea/question I had. I wasn't thinking about it right, but get it now.
Yea green is something around 70% of the light output so changing green to do the majority of the gamma curve adjustment is a good place to start since you would get the same impact from +2 green as you would from say +8 blue. Correspondingly the overall gamma curve wont move much when you adjust R & B to get back into balance with G since combined they only have say a 30% impact on light output. Once you try it out it will become obvious smile.gif
post #13237 of 16126
I really need to take the time and learn HCFR. seems like the graphs and details of the results are valuable. I just look at Cal's guide and want to quit before I start, haha.

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD - Tapatalk
post #13238 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Yea green is something around 70% of the light output so changing green to do the majority of the gamma curve adjustment is a good place to start since you would get the same impact from +2 green as you would from say +8 blue. Correspondingly the overall gamma curve wont move much when you adjust R & B to get back into balance with G since combined they only have say a 30% impact on light output. Once you try it out it will become obvious smile.gif

Thanks 10K! It was pretty obvious once I started on it. I think I got it just where I wanted it. That was one of the last things I needed to do, I'm pretty happy about that. I need to do some color tweaking still, but my RGB levels are good and the Gamma is prety much where it should be.

Gamma before:



Gamma after:



Once I do some color adjustments I'll post up the new settings and info.
post #13239 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

Thanks 10K! It was pretty obvious once I started on it. I think I got it just where I wanted it. That was one of the last things I needed to do, I'm pretty happy about that. I need to do some color tweaking still, but my RGB levels are good and the Gamma is prety much where it should be.
Gamma after:
hello Jestered,
Gamma curve looks good for a BT1886. How do you get the patterns on the panel: bluray, htpc or something else?
post #13240 of 16126
Some more details about my setup.

Cooling fans:
The fans are from Noiseblocker, nominal speed at 12V 700rpm, but they run at reduced speed from the 5V USB connection on the Oppo.
All sources go through the Oppo. So I always use the Oppo and the fans turn on automatically when I switch on the Oppo.
The fans blow into the enclosure, so that the dust is collected on a dust filter on the outside of the enclosure, which is easier to clean than a dust filter inside the enclosure.
The dust grills I bought in a local shop, brandless. They are sturdy metal, which is good because some wires are pushing against it inside the enclosure. But they are screwed on, not convenient for cleaning. I have to look for some filters which are easily removable.


Soundbar:
The GoldenEar soundbar is a passive LCR, so separate connections for Left, Center and Right. It has some compensation so that Left and Right appear further apart than their physical distance.
The choice of a soundbar was for aesthetics, avoiding separate speakers and more visible wiring. It gives a more clean look.
post #13241 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

hello Jestered,
Gamma curve looks good for a BT1886. How do you get the patterns on the panel: bluray, htpc or something else?

Hey turbo! I'm using a Panasonic DMP-BDT310 Bluray player as my pattern source.
post #13242 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post

Hi

So after reading this thread from Page 399, (10K post) , I came to the conclusion that the brightness setting I thought was perfect using the AVS HD disk is probably not so perfect after all.

Currently it's set to 48 with Dark Tone (Low) on to get rid of the whitish tone on blacks. With Dark Tone off, I can see Black Level Bars 19 onwards. Bar 18 is barely visible (prob not at all). With Dark Tone Low on, Bar 19 disappears and 20 is just about visible. Black crush I know but i prefer the darker blacks.

Anyway's after reading a load of posts, decided Black Tone was not the way to go so lowered Brightness to 46 to get the same dark black. This time Bar 19 was visible on the APL Clipping albeit barely, Great I thought.

Except I then tried the Disney WOW brightness test. That's very dark and CE dimming kicks in. But the strange thing is the results were better with Brightness 48 and Dark Tone Low then with just Brightness 46!.

So it seems, that dark levels are better with Black Tone in the pure brightness tests (ie low light level) and worse in a mixed testt like APL Clipping. Confirmed that on the Disney Evaluation test.

Didnt have time to play more as was getting late and eyes were going funny.

Guess has to to with CE Dimming. Any thoughts?

Just reporting back. Tried the CE Dimming trick. Didn't like it. So after more playing around finally decided to keep Brightness to 48 with Dark Tone Low. Prefer it. Bar 19 is actually visible with these settings - just not as visible with Brightness at 46 and no Dark Tone.

Anyways, for the record, here are my final settings. Plus stuff i gleaned off the web which people may find useful.

Calibration Tools : AVS HD MP4’s, Disney WOW Disc

Source : HTPC running XBMC Eden.

Intel HD 2500 : YCbCr on. IT Content on. Calibrate HTPC for optimal video output « Mai Sun's Blog
XBMC : Set to auto adjust framerate (Sammy detects it’s not PC output anymore and all the settings options are enabled)

Samsung 55ES8000 :
HDMI Mode : PC (see above re XBMC autoadjust frame rate)

Picture Menu:
Mode: Standard (May try Warm 1 again)
Backlight: 14 I like a bright picture. Changing the setting doesn’t seem to impact the calibration unless set to very low and that’s ridiculous.
Contrast: 90 Above that and I had reds blending in the colour steps test and red/green clipping in the colour clipping test. The actual APL clipping was fine.
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 0 On my HTPC it seems completely redundant. Plus read that HD material should not require it.
Color: 48 Perfect match on Blue/Green/Red Flashing using built in RGB Only mode.
Tint: G50/R50



Screen Adjustment submenu:

Picture Size: Screen Fit 

Position: [no change]


3D submenu: N/A



Advanced Settings submenu:
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Dark Crushes the blacks fractionally but I prefer the darker black and lose a fractional amount of detail. Note all calibration was done without this and Dynamic Contrast. I turned them on after watching some Movie clips with dark scenes. Went back to the Disney Wow disc and the +1% black was barely visible. May change it to off later.

Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off

Color Space: Auto
Color Space submenu: Disabled
White Balance submenu:
Auto
10p White Balance: Off [grayed out]
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: Off
xvYCC: Disabled
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]

Picture Options submenu:

Color Tone: Standard I prefer it to the Warm settings
Digital Noise Filter: Off Will lose detail for HD video but have it on Auto for TV etc.
MPEG Noise Filter: Off

HDMI Black Level: Disabled YCbCr setting on Graphics card disables this but had it set on Low (Limited RGB source) for RGB
Film Mode: Disabled

Auto Motion Plus: Standard (personal pref. set to Clear otherwise). I like it.
LED Motion Plus: Off

System/ECO Solution:
ECO Sensor: OFF
post #13243 of 16126
Since vertical banding was such a widely covered topic here in the past, I thought people would find this link interesting.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-reviews/lg-84lm9600-review/

Just goes to show you that regardless of price, brand, etc..... ALL LED screens 65+ and larger will suffer from some degree of vertical banding.

However, if spending that amount of money on an 84 inch 4K set that was hand inspected by LG, even with my overly picky standards, I'm sure most people would agree 2-3 inch vertical bands extending across the length of the screen albeit faintly is still atrocious.
post #13244 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

Since vertical banding was such a widely covered topic here in the past, I thought people would find this link interesting.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-reviews/lg-84lm9600-review/

Just goes to show you that regardless of price, brand, etc..... ALL LED screens 65+ and larger will suffer from some degree of vertical banding.

However, if spending that amount of money on an 84 inch 4K set that was hand inspected by LG, even with my overly picky standards, I'm sure most people would agree 2-3 inch vertical bands extending across the length of the screen albeit faintly is still atrocious.

Yeah, that sums it up pretty good. Edge LED is prone to flashlighting, clouding and banding.
Actually, when I looked at the video in the link, I did not find the flashlighting that bad. But then again, it was for sure a handpicked model. What you buy in the shop is ....
post #13245 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Yeah, that sums it up pretty good. Edge LED is prone to flashlighting, clouding and banding.
Actually, when I looked at the video in the link, I did not find the flashlighting that bad. But then again, it was for sure a handpicked model. What you buy in the shop is ....

My main point, all along, is that once TV’s get past 65” in size - - and past $3.6K to $5K, $10K or even more in price, it isn’t worth it. At least to me. That’s why I’m adding a projector to my setup. (Short throw - BenQ W1080ST)

I think the LCD/LED & Projector combo is a winning solution. For everyday viewing, the LCD/LED will work and for most 16 X 9 content. When it’s Cinemascope - - it’s projector time (100" Diagonal, 16 X 9 screen). I’ll probably even use my projector for hockey (easier to see the puck - zero banding) and maybe some other sports. Not sure yet - - we’ll see how it looks.

For CNN, local news, and even 16 X 9 movies - - the Sammy set will work great. Still a fabulous picture - - stone cold gorgeous. Desire to get bigger screen for Cinemascope (Letterboxed" movies is the reason for the PJ.)

Here’s what’s funny - - with the advent in technology - - I’ll bet you right now that in five years, I can get a 4K projector, short throw (probably a BenQ again) that will be a knock-out - - for $2K or less. And by then, the content will be out.

Do these manufacturers realize that at $10K and up a TV like this really hits a very, very small market? Heck, I think $3.6K is a lot to pay for a TV!
post #13246 of 16126
Jestered, is there anything specific you did to get your contrast 3000+? Mine is at around 2300, but my results seem pretty decent, I can post a zip file of my results a little later on. Thanks!

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD - Tapatalk
post #13247 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post

Source : HTPC running XBMC Eden.
Intel HD 2500 : YCbCr on. IT Content on. Calibrate HTPC for optimal video output « Mai Sun's Blog
Hey you are probably introducing banding by using YCbCr mode. My understanding is that video encoded YCbCr gets converted to RGB by PC, and then the PC does its thing and then converts back to YCbCr for output. Less conversions is generally better. You can see the effect visually by opening up a grayscale ramp mp4 file in the AVS HD 709 disc. On my NVIDIA card there was substantially more banding in YCbCr mode than RGB. Interestingly, I get the least banding in RGB Limited mode on my HTPC, but I use RGB Full so that desktop applications like games and xbmc doing anything other than playing movies have correct black levels.
post #13248 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamenoskili View Post

Jestered, is there anything specific you did to get your contrast 3000+? Mine is at around 2300, but my results seem pretty decent, I can post a zip file of my results a little later on. Thanks!

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD - Tapatalk
If you compare his Y values against say, mine, you will see that his 0% black brightness is about 2/3 to 1/2 of what I am measuring, while the Y values for the rest of the grayscale values are pretty much in line. My overall contrast is in that 2300-2500:1 range as well. I wouldnt worry about it too much as long as you are getting an appropriate amount of difference in Y value from 10% through 100%.

"Black Enhancer" does seem to help the 0% Y value measurements, although I dont know how much of an impact it has on overall image quality...
post #13249 of 16126
10k, thanks for the explanation, I appreciate any feedback I can get.

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD - Tapatalk
post #13250 of 16126
Anybody have this happening with their tv....TV keeps shutting on and off sometimes....also when using the remote i will get a paisley mixed color patterns (see attachment) on the screen and the tv will shut itself off and on, i would get a regular tv signal then the patterns would return and the tv would turn itself off and on again...I've reset the tv and have the latest updated firmware installed..



post #13251 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlyoung View Post

Anybody have this happening with their tv....TV keeps shutting on and off sometimes....also when using the remote i will get a paisley mixed color patterns (see attachment) on the screen and the tv will shut itself off and on, i would get a regular tv signal then the patterns would return and the tv would turn itself off and on again...I've reset the tv and have the latest updated firmware installed..

A few people have had this happen, myself included. You're going to need to set up a repair and have the main board replaced. The quickest way to do this is to set it up through the Samsung website. You'll need to register the TV if you haven't already. Once you've done that you can submit a service request through their site. There is a place to upload your receipt, pictures and video of the issue. I'd strongly suggest that you upload pictures and a video. When I did mine the repair center called me the next day and set up the repair for the following day. Since I had uploaded pictures and a video, the repair center did not need to come out and diagnose the problem. This saved at least a day because they didn't have to come out, diagnose the problem, go back, order the part, then come back out again. The parts are overnighted, so the sooner they order, the sooner you get your TV repaired.
post #13252 of 16126
Thanks for the reply...i've got that Performance Plan thing with Best Buy...should i do it through them first or just directly with Samsung?
post #13253 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlyoung View Post

Thanks for the reply...i've got that Performance Plan thing with Best Buy...should i do it through them first or just directly with Samsung?

That's pretty much up to you. You should probably check and find out what their process is. If it's going to take them a week to get the repair done, then go with Samsung since it will be much quicker. I personally would not let anyone from Best Buy touch my equipment, but that's just me. I personally would let Samsung do the repairs while in warranty and then use the Best Buy coverage for out-of-warranty issues.
post #13254 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamenoskili View Post

Jestered, is there anything specific you did to get your contrast 3000+? Mine is at around 2300, but my results seem pretty decent, I can post a zip file of my results a little later on. Thanks!

Sent from my RAZR MAXX HD - Tapatalk

I always knew my contrast ratio showed being a little higher than others, but was not sure why. I'm glad to hear why, so thanks to 10k for finding that and pointing it out. As he mentioned, I wouldn't worry too much about the reading at 0%. Just make sure the rest of the scale is getting correct readings and you should be set. I don't know if you're doing this already or not, but you can also max out the Green Gain in the 2PT White Balance settings because it still doesn't introduce any clipping and will give you much better contrast ratio.

What software and meter are you using to calibrate? TV size?
post #13255 of 16126
Hello Jestered, 10k, and whomever in of interest. Thanks for all the advice and info so far. To answer your question jestered i have the 65'. Originally used i1 display pro with calman basic software. Im extremely knew to this but think i am learning fast. After calibration, I then measured grey scale in HCFR (For the sake of the compare/contrast with your guys' graphs) I will try to add a .zip attachment of my results if any of you care to take a peek and maybe offer some suggestions. Thanks! greyscaleinhcfraftercalmancalib.zip 1k .zip file

Also, I can post the settings I used for anyones curiosity
post #13256 of 16126
10k or anyone who can,


i recently purchased un60es8000 and im trying to calibrate it to best settings can you help me?

im new to this tv and need some assistance..if i can ichat or skype with someone ...that would be great

please help
post #13257 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreydt View Post

10k or anyone who can,


i recently purchased un60es8000 and im trying to calibrate it to best settings can you help me?

im new to this tv and need some assistance..if i can ichat or skype with someone ...that would be great

please help
Search this thread for user "galonzo" and click the link in his signature. He maintains a google spreadsheet with everyone's calibrated settings. Just try them out and see what works best for you. Or go buy a colorimeter and prepare for a massive time investment....
post #13258 of 16126
thanks appreciate spreadsheet
post #13259 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

A few people have had this happen, myself included. You're going to need to set up a repair and have the main board replaced. The quickest way to do this is to set it up through the Samsung website. You'll need to register the TV if you haven't already. Once you've done that you can submit a service request through their site. There is a place to upload your receipt, pictures and video of the issue. I'd strongly suggest that you upload pictures and a video. When I did mine the repair center called me the next day and set up the repair for the following day. Since I had uploaded pictures and a video, the repair center did not need to come out and diagnose the problem. This saved at least a day because they didn't have to come out, diagnose the problem, go back, order the part, then come back out again. The parts are overnighted, so the sooner they order, the sooner you get your TV repaired.

What Jestered said.

It is a quick and painless fix, don't worry.
post #13260 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPWingN View Post

What Jestered said.

It is a quick and painless fix, don't worry.


Not in my case, although they did offer a refund which I think I will take them up on. They can't send a repair person to fix it, but they can send someone to pick up my tv. Doesn't make much sense to me.
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