Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 452

Pop the panel in GAME mode which turns all the picture trickery off and all games including twitch FPS games are fine !!!

1000

How IS the Sharp 70" models compared to our beloved ES8000 ? I've walkways been curious as to whether anyone has done some analysis of the Sharp 70" models. Being full backlit, you'd have to expect better uniformity and no banding ?

1000

I chose the 60" 8000 over the Sharp 70" when I was shopping even though the Sharp would cost less.

Back in April and May I was admittedly unaware of banding as a target item to seek out, as we all would now but....i would have noticed it if any panel I was serious about had it. I was walking around stores with my own bluray player and discs and taking my time.

The panning scenes in Lawrence of Arabia superbitdvd (desert and sky) and Fargo would have shown banding immediately.

I was looking for uniformity, edge bleed , clouding and flashlights back then...

I was at one point ready to buy the Sharp based on sheer bang for the buck....but then my eyes kept rolling back to the 8000. ....i called my Domestic budget manager, sold my point and made the deal.
Edited by Bladerunner1959 - 3/14/13 at 4:29am

I can echo Bladerunner's comments about the Sharp. That was my original choice - - budget wise. They never could get the TV to me so I ended up buying the Sammy 65" (UN65ES8000) and I couldn't be happier.

To me, unless you're talking about the Sharp Elite - - the regular Sharps PQ is no where near the Sammy quality. I was in my local Costco yesterday - - picking up some photos and they had all the TV's on right next to the Photography Department.

You can clearly see - - the 70" Sharp is not as "sharp" - picture wise as the Sammy sets. In fact, they had a large Vizio that looked better than the Sharp which surprised me.

And - when you get up real close, the difference is very dramatic. When you get up close to the Sammy sets - - the pixels are very tight and defined. Not the same for the Sharp or other sets. Sure, I know the source being pushed to a large Dept. store like Costco doesn't help with the image - - but still, there is a very noticeable difference.

So if you really looking at "Sharp" - you might as well as look at Vizio and some of the other sets out there. If you buy from a place like Costco - - they have a 90 day return, no questions asked, policy.

I would get a refund for sure. Like you said you could probably take the money and get the same TV for less. Costco does the same thing. You bring back a defective electronics unit and ask for an exchange. They just give you your money back and let you go buy another one. It the other one is cheaper you win.

Quick question, I currently have a Onkyo SR608 which I just reailzed is not 3D compatible, does this mean I wont be able to watch 3D Movies if my TV is hooked to the receiver? I also plan on buying a 3D Blu Ray Player which I want to hook up to my Onkyo (which is not 3D capable) will this limit the 3D viewing and will I end up having to directly connect the 3D Blu Ray Player directly to the TV?

EDIT- just read these specs on my receiever

HDMI (Version 1.4 to Support 3D and Audio Return Channel)

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR608-7-2-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B003BIFOL8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363279025&sr=8-1&keywords=onkyo+sr608

Sounds like it is 3D compatable. I think what that means is whether it's capable of passing the 3D signal through to the TV (or not). Probably has to do with the complexity of the signal. The Audio Return Channel on the TV is HDMI 2. That allows the TV generated audio content (from the Smarthub if you watch Netflix or VuDu) to be transmitted to the AVR thus eliminating the need for an optical wire.

So I have been playing around with my i1D3 and Calman Software, and thought I would post some info for both the calibration geeks and general users. First, let me preface by saying that as much as I have tweaked movie mode, I just plain enjoy watching Standard mode better. I have less flashlighting and clouding and it just works better for my eyes. Also, my contrast is set higher than the meter and my test patterns tell me I should be putting it. The truth is that my eyes like the higher contrast, and so I am rolling with it, patterns be damned. My main outlier compared to other folks calibrations is my magenta, which has red turned down quit a bit compared to others settings.

The calibrations are done using a PS3 with AVS709 test pattern. Meter is an i1D3 with Calman software. Set is a 55ES8000, screen TS01, with firmware 1047. I also have my TV going through a Pioneer receiver with Marvel Qdeo processing, and I have no idea if/how that impacts the colors. The Qdeo is set to the LCD setting (of note, it defaults to Plasma if any of you have a Pioneer receiver).

Mode: Standard
Backlight: 11 (for a medium lit room, turn down to 7-8 for dark room, can use eco sensor with minimum if you want)
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 85
Sharpness: 15 (your preference)
Color: 50
Tint: G51/R49

Color tone: Warm2
Noise filters: Your preference
AMP: Clear
LED Motion: off

Advanced:

Dynamic: Low or Off, your preference. Calibrations done with Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh: Off
Color Space: Custom

Red: 33,3,0
Green: 7,48,5
Blue: 0,8,47
Yellow: 55,48,4
Cyan: 0,51,50
Magenta: 27,7,47

White Balance:

R offset: 22
G offset: 25
B offset: 25
R Gain: 24
G Gain: 31
B Gain: 0

For the geeks, here are some images. I changed the graphs to make them look more like HCFR so that crowd can see the values. As you can see, with only 2p white balance, the set does pretty well 20-90, but falls apart some at 10 and 100.





There are inherent color errors that I cannot correct. For example, too much blue in my red despite blue being set at 0, and too much red in my blue, despite red being set at 0.



For the generic users, here is a video showing the colors. Flip the toggle to 720p. It is harder to see with the cellphone video, but you can see how auto colors blows out top end red and magenta, which are tamed on the custom color settings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys0emHqRg1g

Welcome any comments or feedback. I would also say, I question any settings that do not have B gain set to 0...
Edited by Mavinwow - 3/17/13 at 1:25pm

Mavinwow - 10k talked about this before I believe. One of the best predictors of visible image quality is contrast ratio. If you are in movie mode you are stuck with the tv's native contrast ratio which is not very high (although jestered managed to get it above 3000:1 at one point if I remember right). In standard mode you have dynamic factors (not just dynamic contrast) that improve perceived contrast ratios on some scenes. I felt the same way and preferred standard for that reason.

Interesting, thanks for that. I had used Nitra's settings forever before plugging in my own. Loving the look, I have that almost 3D pop on CNN.

Thanks for sharing that stuff. Do you think it's just your panel that you set the B gain to zero or the TV in general?

It certainly could just be my panel, although Nitra, 10k and myself all have the TS01 panel and have B gain set to zero. There is a high degree of blue push at brighter grey levels.

I was curious about the B gain level as well.... I don't really understand how the default setting could be this far off.... is this setting of zero to compensate for extreme inaccuracy in Standard?

As Calman explains it:

"Two-point grayscale calibration is performed at two grayscale levels (points), typically at a high brightness level of either 70% or 80% (with the Gain controls) and at a low brightness level of either 20% or 30% (with the Offset controls). High brightness and low brightness test patterns are measured, and adjustments are made to change the display’s balance of red, green, and blue light, to produce as close as possible to the target white/gray color as possible, at these two grayscale levels. The display’s natural linearity then determines the white balance accuracy across the rest of the grayscale, with the tracking error often being higher at the dark and bright ends of the grayscale.

High Brightness Gain Controls
To minimize interaction between the Gain and Offset controls, adjust the high brightness gain controls first. Adjust the Gain controls to optimize the balance of red, green, and blue at a high brightness level. The Gain controls are typically less sensitive, requiring significant change to achieve a desired effect.
4. Select the desired high brightness adjustment level (typically 70% to 80%), on the bottom CalMAN Level Select bar.
5. Press the Read Continuous meter button to start continuous measurements.
6. Adjust the display’s red and blue Gain controls to balance them each to the green level, as indicated on the single level RGB Balance chart. (If the center target line on the RGB Balance chart is labeled “0,” see the Note above.)"

So effectively, my panel inherently has too much blue at higher brightness levels, which needs to be tamed to have an equal representation of R/G/B to makeup white. You can see that this is the case with the above graphs. Look at the one with two RGB charts, with the labels 30 and 80 at the bottom. The 80 graph is used to balance RGB at 80% white levels. As you can see, with B gain set to 0, I am able to achieve an even balance of RGB.

For those that chose between the 70" Sharp and the 65" ES8000 Samsung, it just so happens to be that the Samsung is now cheaper (At least on Amazon and most other places that I have seen lately). Amazon has the Sharp 847U for $2797 and the Samsung is $2698. The only thing I have to get past is the panel lottery and I believe the price will drop even further by April/May when the 65" F-series is introduced.

I posted about this awhile back:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399319/official-samsung-unxxes8000-owners-thread/9480#post_22788062

Well said Jestered. Now if only I could bounce out of the office and get back to my family room!!!!

How can I disable the auto update? I went into the menu, / system / update, and there are no choices... how do you make sure it doesnt do it automaticallly? or do I have to wait until it asks and then say no?

I have the 65ES8000 running 1047

I forget exactly where, but there's an auto-update feature you can enable. You obviously don't want that. You can also disconnect it from the internet all together, unless you're streaming network stuff to the TV.

What I did was=Menu> Support>Software Update>Standyby Mode> NO

Avitar4, at main menu go to support, software update, then standby mode and make sure that is off....i just jumped on that bandwagon to advise you..
Edited by Bladerunner1959 - 3/14/13 at 5:03pm

Thanks,, Standby Mode is now OFF.

I am still trying to decide if I am going to keep this 65". The banding is much more pronounced on the right side of the screen, about 4 " in from the edge. The other bands are less severe, though sometimes like against a blue sky are pretty visible.

great result, thanks for sharing.

I think your difference in reds is because you have tint set at 51/49 instead of 50/50. It's interesting how close our standard mode results actually are, once you consider the difference in tint and green gain/contrast.

Cheers
Edited by 10k - 3/14/13 at 7:02pm

Just got Amazon to do another price match for the $1599.99 price at Rakuten.com. Incredible deal with the free tablet.

hello Mavinwow,
That looks very nice, and interesting with the contrast.
I had set contrast to 80 to avoid clipping, and to be able to make a comparison with Movie mode, which has no clipping.

But of course, a higher contrast setting would increase peak white, while keeping black level, effectively increasing contrast ratio. Backlight could be then reduced to minimize clouding.
So you set contrast at 85 and you have some mild clipping.

I have seen this done before. See following link:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-l47et60b-201302272699.htm?page=Calibration
Here, David Mackenzie does the same thing in order to increase contrast ratio. He does it however to increase the contrast ratio of an IPS panel, which has a higher minimum black level.

One question. Did you calibrate color at 75% luminance or at 100% luminance (I do not know Calman so cannot really see on your graphs)? With the clipping at 100% luminance, color calibration should be done at 75%.

I have this offer from BB on the table. But my PQ is pretty darn nice as it is, just from tweaks eye ballin test discs and trying the basic settings offered on this thread, so I haven't pursued it. Also I really don't expect GeekSquad to come out with a meter and the expertise to do a proper cal job. I'll be interested in your report on this.

Here's the Deal with the Best Buy Calibration Deal as I know it from others on this form. It is my understanding that this is a Hit or Miss at Best, with mostly misses. When they come to do the calibration they are on a time schedule, some where around 1 Hour total time per job. So it's like you get a certain amount of time to get done what you can do and leave the rest.
In this case with this Display all the menus they need to Calibrate are available without having to go into the Service Menu. If these Best Buy Calibrator's had to go into the Display's service menu to calibrate, I would Say: DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. But since you can always write down their settings and then try others, I see no harm.
It's up to you. This Display allows them easy access to all they need, this is a No Harm No Foul situation. Once again If they had to access the Internal Service Menu, Not On Your Life.

I purchased a Samsung UN65ES8000 Jan 30, returned it Feb 20 for the 70" Sharp 87U, the top model. That TV lasted 7 days before I sent it back for another Samsung 65" 8000. The Sharp's 3D was HORRIBLE. The HD Cable box picture was pretty good, but I could not turn of the SOE no matter what settings I changed. That issue is typical when reading the Sharp thread on the site. The colors where also a bit "off". I just couldn't get a great picture while watching the new batman blu ray. Clouding was another huge issue. I can honestly say, in my personal opinion, the Sharp 70" doesn't hold a candle to the 65" Samsung 8000, even with the banding.

Double post. Sorry. Tough posting from my phone sometimes.

Tim, nicely put. Sharp for whatever reason simply does not do 3D well which is the main issue I had with the 60ES8000 Sharp panel.

However, the 847u was not Sharps top of the line for 2012.

I can say that if you can ignore the 65ES8000 banding issues, it is the top 3D performer of all the 2012 sets i either had or tested in store.