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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 510

post #15271 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

I don't think that's correct. If you are going to adjust gamma while doing the 10P white balance, you're going to have to move all three (R,G,B) and not just R & B or G. Moving G by itself is mostly just raising or lowering the gamma level at each interval. To properly perform 10P white balance adjustments you must have a meter and I can't see any way that it could be possible to do it by eye. Also, if your 10P white balance was set properly you should be able to put the Contrast setting on 100 without any tint or hue being added to the contrast test pattern. But, again, you can't do that without a meter.

re: Contrast. That is not the case with standard. You get pretty significant pink-tinge even after color calibration if you push contrast.
post #15272 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaylanGivens1 View Post

It's adjust Red/Blue OR adjust Green only. I think adjusting green only is the key to getting good results out of Standard. It will never look like Movie Mode, but the black level in Movie mode will never look like Standard, so you have to make a choice. I would be satisfied if it was close to default Movie Mode.

I have played with it recently and the settings I am using for Standard are here (keep in mind this is by eye):


(I have only listed changes made to the defaults)

Backlight - 5
Contrast - 90
Brightness - 42
Color - 45
Sharpness - 0

White Balance:

Green Gain - 22
Green Offset - 38

Color Space - Auto

Flesh Tone - (-5)

Gamma - (-3)

Color Temp - Warm2

Auto Motion Plus - Custom (Blur Reduction 10, Judder Reduction 0)

Obviously some compromises had to be made. Contrast at 78-82 takes away the pinkish hue in most test patterns, but in real world viewing produces a dull image, so I left it at 90.

How did you arrive at gamma set to -3? Same with Flesh tone -5? Your brightness also seems low.

You are probably doing more harm than good with some of those adjustments.
post #15273 of 16126
Well this is getting a little out of hand. I redid everything because that one specific scene in Game of Thrones (tyrion and sansa in the bedroom standing in front of the door) bothered me with slightly too much green and fixing that scene threw everything else just noticeably out of balance. Overall results improved slightly, I found some extra contrast as well in there. I was thinking that maybe some of the more extreme adjustments were throwing stuff off (e.g. blue gain=1) so I took a new approach this time and started off with Green gain=50 and worked backwards from there.

Here's a few interesting comparisons from my prior settings:


I gave up accuracy of 100% green for overall increased average green accuracy. Also, got much better grayscale results at the darker end.

One interesting thing I learned is that contrast and gains and offsets settings have a pretty big impact on all color below 100% saturation on the es8000 which can lead to some frustrating situations when tweaking.

Another thing I learned is that this TV is awful in dark brown/yellow scenes at any angle besides straight on. I sit about 12' away from my 55" and even moving 3 feet over (middle of couch to side) caused a noticeable color shift in that particular scene in game of thrones. Annoying but oh well.

Anyway enjoy.
standard mode settings 5/20/2013 (Click to show)
Standard
Backlight 11 (60ftL)
Contrast 72
Brightness 44
Sharpness 20 (preference)
Color 50
TInt 50/50

ADVANCED SETTINGS
Dynamic Contrast Off
Black Tone Off
Flesh Tone 0
Gamma -1
Motion Lighting Off

WHITE BALANCE
27 25 22 42 50 11

COLOR SPACE Custom
Red 33 0 0
Green 11 48 0
Blue 0 3 50
Yellow 51 49 0
Cyan 10 49 54
Magenta 30 3 47

PICTURE OPTIONS
Color Tone Warm2
Noise Filters Off
HDMI Black Level Normal (set for your equipment)
Auto Motion Plus Clear
LED Motion Plus Off

SYSTEM
Eco Solution Eco Sensor On 3
5/20/2013 standard mode calibration charts (Click to show)










post #15274 of 16126
Given that we cant max out contrast on Standard mode, why are you still using the g-gain 50 trick?
post #15275 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

Given that we cant max out contrast on Standard mode, why are you still using the g-gain 50 trick?
on my phone so I can't type out a big reply but basically it looks like rgb gain isn't totally additive to contrast. I set green gain to 50 and then increased contrast until green started clipping. Then tried to balance red and blue and adjusted contrast down as necessary to avoid clipping.
post #15276 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

re: Contrast. That is not the case with standard. You get pretty significant pink-tinge even after color calibration if you push contrast.

Ah! You're right! I forgot he was doing this in Standard picture mode. I don't mess with Standard mode and don't have any desire to either. I know people complain about the blacks not being as good in Movie mode, but my blacks are nice and inky and I have absolutely no flashlighting or clouding at all. I basically started with my Y reading low and kept slowly increasing it over several weeks and re-calibration until I started noticing those things. The good thing with my calibration is that I was still at the high end brightness (Y @ 100% white) as far as what my eyes like. I believe I'm somewhere around 140, which is as bright as I would have taken it even if I could have gone higher without my blacks being destroyed.
Edited by Jestered - 5/20/13 at 6:19pm
post #15277 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

on my phone so I can't type out a big reply but basically it looks like rgb gain isn't totally additive to contrast. I set green gain to 50 and then increased contrast until green started clipping. Then tried to balance red and blue and adjusted contrast down as necessary to avoid clipping.

10k- Big props to you for taking this calibration thing as far as you have. I believe you and I got our meters the same day and started on this journey the same time. I got to a point where I learned as much as I needed to get my PQ where I was extremely happy. I can't see how I could get it any better. That includes the eyeball test as well as meter readings. I am going to give the 3D calibration a shot though, but decided to give the calibration a break for a little bit because I ended up getting that URC remote I mentioned a while back (MX-5000). This remote is beyond incredible, but getting it programmed and set up takes some time! I'm at the end of the remote set up now and I've been working on it for almost 3 weeks. I guess it's time for 3D calibration soon!
post #15278 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

10k- Big props to you for taking this calibration thing as far as you have. I believe you and I got our meters the same day and started on this journey the same time. I got to a point where I learned as much as I needed to get my PQ where I was extremely happy. I can't see how I could get it any better. That includes the eyeball test as well as meter readings. I am going to give the 3D calibration a shot though, but decided to give the calibration a break for a little bit because I ended up getting that URC remote I mentioned a while back (MX-5000). This remote is beyond incredible, but getting it programmed and set up takes some time! I'm at the end of the remote set up now and I've been working on it for almost 3 weeks. I guess it's time for 3D calibration soon!
Ha, yea I think we did get them at the same time. Thanks man. Standard Mode was a very hard nut for me to crack, overall I'm happy with it. I do get a big improvement on flashlighting and clouding so am happy that I was able to figure out how to make it look as good as movie mode. My heart sank when I saw that scene in Game of Thrones last night, I just knew that the color in the shadows was slightly off. And once you see something like that you can never unsee it smile.gif

That remote does look pretty sweet. I use a logitech Harmony One to control everything. It took me forever to get all my macros sorted, and especially to figure out how to make the thing wake/sleep my htpc without completely barfing on HDMI handshake and other fun issues smile.gif

I guess the journey is its own reward.

Cheers!
post #15279 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Ha, yea I think we did get them at the same time. Thanks man. Standard Mode was a very hard nut for me to crack, overall I'm happy with it. I do get a big improvement on flashlighting and clouding so am happy that I was able to figure out how to make it look as good as movie mode. My heart sank when I saw that scene in Game of Thrones last night, I just knew that the color in the shadows was slightly off. And once you see something like that you can never unsee it smile.gif

That remote does look pretty sweet. I use a logitech Harmony One to control everything. It took me forever to get all my macros sorted, and especially to figure out how to make the thing wake/sleep my htpc without completely barfing on HDMI handshake and other fun issues smile.gif

I guess the journey is its own reward.

Cheers!

I know those Harmony One remotes are real popular, but I've been sold on this URC stuff for years now. I wish I had a friend that had one so I could check it out. I don't see myself getting another remote for a while, but would still like to see how they work. This MX-5000 is not really a user programmable remote. In fact you can't even get the programming software unless the authorized dealer you bought it from gives it to you and they're not required to do so. Luckily my URC guy here was about to move away and I told him I would buy the remote if he gave me the software and he did. That was an experience though. Awesome remote though!

Did you ever figure out what causes the color twist in the CMS? I remember early on that neither one of us had that, but it was introduced somewhere along the way for both of us. Have you tried redoing the 10P adjustments without the Gain boost? I'm wondering if that's what 's causing the color twist in the CMS, but don't really want to go down that road again just yet. I haven't seen anything during viewing that makes me want to adjust it, but I do know that color twist is there.
post #15280 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

I know those Harmony One remotes are real popular, but I've been sold on this URC stuff for years now. I wish I had a friend that had one so I could check it out. I don't see myself getting another remote for a while, but would still like to see how they work. This MX-5000 is not really a user programmable remote. In fact you can't even get the programming software unless the authorized dealer you bought it from gives it to you and they're not required to do so. Luckily my URC guy here was about to move away and I told him I would buy the remote if he gave me the software and he did. That was an experience though. Awesome remote though!

Did you ever figure out what causes the color twist in the CMS? I remember early on that neither one of us had that, but it was introduced somewhere along the way for both of us. Have you tried redoing the 10P adjustments without the Gain boost? I'm wondering if that's what 's causing the color twist in the CMS, but don't really want to go down that road again just yet. I haven't seen anything during viewing that makes me want to adjust it, but I do know that color twist is there.
The Harmony One is an ok remote. I actually liked my old Harmony 720 more because it had the color LCD but it had hard buttons along the side of the LCD instead of the touchscreen the One has. The touchscreen on the One is too sensitive and too easy to accidentally hit a button while you are reaching for another. Also the battery life isnt that terrific. It is a pretty good value for money though.

I never figured out the twist in Standard Mode, ultimately I just decided to go for best average coverage rather than focusing on a single point. So many of the controls are interrelated that it can be hard to keep track of everywhere that one adjustment affects smile.gif
post #15281 of 16126
10k, your efforts have been absolutely superior. All you can really do is use the best reference material possible in bluray and dial in the best overall settings....imho

Outside of bluray, there is so much inconsistency for a variety of reasons , we are always chasing our tale for that perfect setting.

My wife was watching True Blood on demand (fios) last night and i saw such a variance from fuzzy pic with odd color to razor-sharp with spot on correct color....crazy.

I did tweak Natural mode to give "rare" support when watching sports and the pic needs more life and pop. Example, some hockey arenas seem to send a hazy foggy pic...definitely an equipment issue. Imo
post #15282 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

10k, your efforts have been absolutely superior.
+1
post #15283 of 16126
My EK delivery just got bumped from today to Wednesday because I changed to local fedex store delivery to avoid the signature issue. FedEx is the worst...
post #15284 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

Given that we cant max out contrast on Standard mode, why are you still using the g-gain 50 trick?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

on my phone so I can't type out a big reply but basically it looks like rgb gain isn't totally additive to contrast. I set green gain to 50 and then increased contrast until green started clipping. Then tried to balance red and blue and adjusted contrast down as necessary to avoid clipping.
The thought I wanted to complete on this is that up until yesterday I always started with white balance all at 25,25,25 and then set contrast until clipping white, and then adjusted R,B gains to balance. Lastly, I would have to raise G gain to get white into balance because blue gain even at zero wasn't low enough in standard mode. I had previously observed that white balance does impact color coordinates of saturations below 100% so got to thinking that maybe some of the inaccuracies and in particular maybe the "twist" in green was caused/impacted by setting white balance in this manner.

What I did this time was try to approach it "backwards" with the thought that maybe having B-gain at 0 was negatively impacting things. So I set G-gain at 50 as a starting point and then adjusted contrast down until green stopped clipping. I then raised up r-gain and b-gain to balance white. Overall the end result of doing it this way in Standard mode was better white balance across the spectrum.

As you pointed out, I thought it was interesting that with G-gain set at 50 I actually ended up with a higher contrast setting as well versus the other method (72 vs 70). This leads me to believe that the interaction between white balance and contrast isnt as straightforward as we may have thought. If you compare against my prior Standard settings you'll also see that the CMS settings have changed pretty significantly, which gets back to my point about white balance impacting CMS settings.

An alternate interpretation though is that since gamma starts sloping upwards at around 60% brightness, these settings aren't ideal. No matter what settings I use in standard mode I generally get that upward sloping gamma curve and since the entire thing is in the range between 2.1 and 2.3 with average of 2.2 I don't think its much of an issue.

In any case the picture looks great and I have next to no flashlighting or clouding anymore so job done.
Edited by 10k - 5/21/13 at 7:51am
post #15285 of 16126
Sorry for posting here but I can't seem to get the xxf8000 folks to respond to my dilemna. I don't have a warm and fuzzy about my panel and here is my issue:

I need some opinions on the condition of the panel on my new 55f8000. It has 2 vertical (what I want to call) flat spots running about 4-5 inches in on each side and from top to bottom. They are about 3-4 inches in width. I have provided below 2 links to very short videos of what I am trying to describe. Is this normal because of the thin screen technology or do I have a problem on my hands? My return deadline is Fri so any and all opinions are/will be greatly appreciated.

The 2 flat spots distort reflected images much like a house of mirrors. What really bothers me is the distorted reflected images also go out of focus. Hopefully you guys will see what I mean in the 2 videos. As a result of my incredible photo skills, it might take you a moment to figure out WTH you are looking at...

Again, thanks in advance.

http://s352.photobucket.com/user/boidsonly/media/20130519_104124_zpsf0c001df.mp4.html


http://s352.photobucket.com/user/boidsonly/media/20130519_104302_zps02070d91.mp4.html
post #15286 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by boidsonly View Post

Sorry for posting here but I can't seem to get the xxf8000 folks to respond to my dilemna. I don't have a warm and fuzzy about my panel and here is my issue:

I need some opinions on the condition of the panel on my new 55f8000. It has 2 vertical (what I want to call) flat spots running about 4-5 inches in on each side and from top to bottom. They are about 3-4 inches in width. I have provided below 2 links to very short videos of what I am trying to describe. Is this normal because of the thin screen technology or do I have a problem on my hands? My return deadline is Fri so any and all opinions are/will be greatly appreciated.

The 2 flat spots distort reflected images much like a house of mirrors. What really bothers me is the distorted reflected images also go out of focus. Hopefully you guys will see what I mean in the 2 videos. As a result of my incredible photo skills, it might take you a moment to figure out WTH you are looking at...

Again, thanks in advance.

http://s352.photobucket.com/user/boidsonly/media/20130519_104124_zpsf0c001df.mp4.html


http://s352.photobucket.com/user/boidsonly/media/20130519_104302_zps02070d91.mp4.html
Seriously you have just taken OCD to the next level
post #15287 of 16126
Just picked up a colormunki display new and sealed for £60.00 or $91.00 and look forward to really improving upon a already amazing picture.
10k and jestered prepare for a barrage of questions
post #15288 of 16126
hah, welcome to the addiction.
post #15289 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

hah, welcome to the addiction.
Sorry didn't mean to miss you out there mavinwow.
Hope you can soon put that Evo kit to the test and see if there have been any picture updates along the way
post #15290 of 16126
No offense taken smile.gif You will be using ColorHCFR, 10K and Jestered will be far more useful.

About that Evo Kit....
post #15291 of 16126
Look what came:










I was planning on being scientific about it, and take readings before/after. I won't have time to do that though for a few days, and not sure I can resist temptation :P
post #15292 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillycargt4cs View Post

Seriously you have just taken OCD to the next level
hahahaha.....I actually feel quite normal now. If anyone wants to challenge my level of OCD I will be sure to send them to that post!
post #15293 of 16126
Mavinwow, what is that cable that came with your EK?
post #15294 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMGala View Post

Mavinwow, what is that cable that came with your EK?

Once you install the EK, it bypasses the old CPU/GPU. Part of that must be the ethernet port as well. It is an ethernet port adapter for those that use hard-wired connections.
post #15295 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Well this is getting a little out of hand. I redid everything because that one specific scene in Game of Thrones (tyrion and sansa in the bedroom standing in front of the door) bothered me with slightly too much green and fixing that scene threw everything else just noticeably out of balance. Overall results improved slightly, I found some extra contrast as well in there. I was thinking that maybe some of the more extreme adjustments were throwing stuff off (e.g. blue gain=1) so I took a new approach this time and started off with Green gain=50 and worked backwards from there.

Here's a few interesting comparisons from my prior settings:


I gave up accuracy of 100% green for overall increased average green accuracy. Also, got much better grayscale results at the darker end.

One interesting thing I learned is that contrast and gains and offsets settings have a pretty big impact on all color below 100% saturation on the es8000 which can lead to some frustrating situations when tweaking.

Another thing I learned is that this TV is awful in dark brown/yellow scenes at any angle besides straight on. I sit about 12' away from my 55" and even moving 3 feet over (middle of couch to side) caused a noticeable color shift in that particular scene in game of thrones. Annoying but oh well.

Anyway enjoy.
standard mode settings 5/20/2013 (Click to show)
Standard
Backlight 11 (60ftL)
Contrast 72
Brightness 44
Sharpness 20 (preference)
Color 50
TInt 50/50

ADVANCED SETTINGS
Dynamic Contrast Off
Black Tone Off
Flesh Tone 0
Gamma -1
Motion Lighting Off

WHITE BALANCE
27 25 22 42 50 11

COLOR SPACE Custom
Red 33 0 0
Green 11 48 0
Blue 0 3 50
Yellow 51 49 0
Cyan 10 49 54
Magenta 30 3 47

PICTURE OPTIONS
Color Tone Warm2
Noise Filters Off
HDMI Black Level Normal (set for your equipment)
Auto Motion Plus Clear
LED Motion Plus Off

SYSTEM
Eco Solution Eco Sensor On 3
5/20/2013 standard mode calibration charts (Click to show)












You should post this on the CNET settings page as Katzmaier couldn't come up with the same results on Standard mode. If you compare his chart, it almost looks like they are reversed because he made the grayscale worse than the default. I wonder how much of that is his mistake or Samsung's firmware updates?

I doubt he will update the rating of this tv in any case, but I just can't see it still being a 3 out of 5 with these settings.

I am currently using your settings except I am leaving the backlight at 5.
Edited by RaylanGivens1 - 5/21/13 at 10:07pm
post #15296 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

Once you install the EK, it bypasses the old CPU/GPU. Part of that must be the ethernet port as well. It is an ethernet port adapter for those that use hard-wired connections.

Thanks
post #15297 of 16126
Looks like Amazon dropped the price on the Evo kit. $211.79, and as low as $199.99 through some of their other vendors on the site. FYI wink.gif

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CILJB90/ref=ox_sc_imb_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
post #15298 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaylanGivens1 View Post

You should post this on the CNET settings page as Katzmaier couldn't come up with the same results on Standard mode. If you compare his chart, it almost looks like they are reversed because he made the grayscale worse than the default. I wonder how much of that is his mistake or Samsung's firmware updates?

I doubt he will update the rating of this tv in any case, but I just can't see it still being a 3 out of 5 with these settings.

I am currently using your settings except I am leaving the backlight at 5.
Probably a bit late to be giving him suggestions now that the TV has been discontinued smile.gif
I've found that changing backlight doesnt really have a huge impact on the rest of the calibration, so its purely up to whatever is appropriate for your viewing environment. I have open windows facing my TV so I need the backlight higher for daytime viewing. I set ECO Mode to backlight 3 for night time viewing and it works pretty well.
post #15299 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillycargt4cs View Post

Just picked up a colormunki display new and sealed for £60.00 or $91.00 and look forward to really improving upon a already amazing picture.
10k and jestered prepare for a barrage of questions
Nice, enjoy the ride. I've got some informative links posted in the link in my signature. What size TV do you have? It would be interesting to see what readings you get on your set against those posted by users with meters here.
post #15300 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Nice, enjoy the ride. I've got some informative links posted in the link in my signature. What size TV do you have? It would be interesting to see what readings you get on your set against those posted by users with meters here.
As a prior owner of the 60ST60 and now the es7500, do you know how that contrat ratio's and black levels compare from this TV to the ST60? I know you have the es8000 so it might be different then my 7500 but just curious on these numbers.
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