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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 54

post #1591 of 15499
7/14/12 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lithium2k View Post

Correct which is why I am not considering plasma. I am surprised that people can tolerate the issues with Edge-lit, but I may be too critical.
I am hoping that seeing one the of the full array sets will wow me but I am not holding my breath. I may just have to wait for prices to drop on OLED. Thanks for the input though.

Yeah plasmas have all kinds of issues. One that i cant stand is the buzzing noise they make. Im not sure why people are so about this vt50 plasma everyone is talking about but I cant see what the people are raving about? Yes it has deep blacks but the picture is just not punchy like some of the led sets. Ill take some flashlighting/clouding for a bright punchy picture over a dim plasma that makes white noise and can heat a room in the winter. Its also worth noting that the video processor in the es8000 is far superior to any plasmas (or any other tv on the market) including the vt50 which a lot if people are having video issues with.
Edited by Gas0linE - 7/14/12 at 9:10am
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post #1592 of 15499
7/14/12 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

Yeah plasmas have all kinds of issues. One that i cant stand is the buzzing noise they make. Im not sure why people are so about this vt50 plasma everyone is talking about but I cant see what the people are raving about? Yes it has deep blacks but the picture is just not punchy like some of the led sets. Ill take some flashlighting/clouding for a bright punchy picture over a dim plasma that makes white noise and can heat a room in the winter.

Perfectly well said. At first I was all set as a "no brainer" to go plasma....after my extremely anal test driving of 60" in both with a budget ceiling of 3500 to include stand....it turned into an easy choice to go LED Samsung un60es8000...

By the way, although i did agree witht he favorable points of the CNet review...that guy obviously either has cataracts or simply is a hater....his assesment of the black level??? What planet is he living on...and by the way...all the talk about the D8000 being superior in black level detail....NOT!

I bought this unit for the picture alone... I told sales people to NOT talk about "Smart" features... I was on a mission for a dumb (totally box of bricks stupid) TV that simply had a great picture. I spend 8 to 10 hours in a cubicle with two monitors all day... I want zero integration... Down the road when I am good and ready I will play with the Smart features...if they suck...i dont care

Again, the UN 60 es 8000 was the best overall picture in the 60" category , both led and plasma, that i saw.....IF the LG had the 60...maybe a tie....doesnt matter....Only the Elite stood out as a better monitor at a 'little bit" more cash. The Sharp was very very nice at under 2000 bucks (but then it had to go head to head with Sam6000) and at alot less money, more in line with good plasmas, but over course of ownership the extra dollars on Sammy was an easy step to invest.

The best plasmas NEVER produced the pop and punch that the Sammy did...and I am talking when Sammy was dialed in...not showroom torch settings. All this plasma crap is tiring anymore...it's so "mid 2000's video-phile bunk"...enough....

I'll take my "life like living" monitor any day in any environment and let the "purests" and "experts" cling to their heat source...aka plasma.
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post #1593 of 15499
7/14/12 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post


The best plasmas NEVER produced the pop and punch that the Sammy did...and I am talking when Sammy was dialed in...not showroom torch settings. All this plasma crap is tiring anymore...it's so "mid 2000's video-phile bunk"...enough....
I'll take my "life like living" monitor any day in any environment and let the "purests" and "experts" cling to their heat source...aka plasma.

+1

Also, I couldn't help but wonder if the guy from the CNET review was going to share some of what he was smoking with the crowd.
I'll agree, the ES8000 doesn't produce the inky black levels of say the VT50, however, I'll gladly take my ES8000 over the other issues with the VT50 and live with the not quite so inky black blacks.
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post #1594 of 15499
7/14/12 at 11:38am
Here is another review published yesterday of the ES8000:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-UE-55ES8000-55-46ES8000-46-40ES8000-40-Inch-3D-LED-LCD-Smart-TV-Review_333/Review.html
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post #1595 of 15499
7/14/12 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post

Here is another review published yesterday of the ES8000:
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-UE-55ES8000-55-46ES8000-46-40ES8000-40-Inch-3D-LED-LCD-Smart-TV-Review_333/Review.html

Now thats WTF I am talking about. That is a in depth review right there. That review doesnt sound like some plasma fanboy stuff like the CNET one that is a few paragraphs long talking about black levels.. This is how you should review a TV and not just look at "black levels". Thanks for the post, it was a great read.
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post #1596 of 15499
7/14/12 at 3:43pm
Having read both reviews, the reported black level is actually lower in the CNET review (0.0108 fL vs. 0.0146 fL). However, CNET seems to have stricter tolerances for black levels since they consider this level of performance only average while AVF considers it good.

Having said that, the bad part of AVF's review was the viewing angles:

"Unfortunately, whilst the 55ES8000 can deliver some impressive blacks, where the use of Samsung’s SPVA panel has its downside is in terms of viewing angles. Sadly these were very limited and if you were sat anywhere but dead-centre to the 55ES8000 the colours and blacks would immediately begin to wash out. The same was true if you stood up and looked down at the 55ES8000, so you will need to be very careful when positioning the display, especially somewhere high such as above a fireplace."

This is clearly bad news for anyone viewing the TV evenly slightly off-axis and likely means if a group of people are watching the TV together, only one seat on the same couch will have optimum PQ. That is kind of disappointing for a top-of-the-line TV. This is obviously an area where Plasmas and IPS panel LCDs will easily outperform the UNxxES8000, though the IPS panel LCDs will have much worse black levels and still washout on the vertical axis.

David Katzmaier probably is biased towards Plasma since his top 5 TVs for PQ only include 4 Plasmas (http://reviews.cnet.com/best-hdtvs/?tag=leftnav). However, interestingly enough even the CCFL-LCD models from 2011 by Samsung have better blacks (about half as bright): the LNxxD550 and LNxxD630. That's 0.0052 fL for the D630 and 0.0044 fL for the cheaper D550. Those value-priced models also come with S-PVA LCD panels (or in some cases A-MVA or S-MVA), yet somehow manage to get better blacks without anything remotely close to local dimming. So, as someone who is a fan of Samsung TVs, which LED-LCD from their lineup this year offers the best overall PQ? Is it the ES8000 or is it a cheaper ES series model like the ES6xx0 or ES7xx0 models? Which has the most PQ bang for the buck?
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post #1597 of 15499
7/14/12 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

So, as someone who is a fan of Samsung TVs, which LED-LCD from their lineup this year offers the best overall PQ? Is it the ES8000 or is it a cheaper ES series model like the ES6xx0 or ES7xx0 models? Which has the most PQ bang for the buck?

Apart from user comments, which in some cases are unfortunately, and understandly, biased in favour of their chosen TV, the only option is to go from reviews from sites which you trust.

Here are two reviews of the ES7000 and the ES8000 from a site which I do trust:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ue55es8000-ue46es8000-201205301790.htm

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ue40es7000-ue46es7000-201207141924.htm

David MacKenzie, the calibrator in the above tests, was also one of 4 calibrators to participate in the 2012 Flat Panel Shootout which I referenced previously.
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post #1598 of 15499
7/14/12 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Having read both reviews, the reported black level is actually lower in the CNET review (0.0108 fL vs. 0.0146 fL). However, CNET seems to have stricter tolerances for black levels since they consider this level of performance only average while AVF considers it good.
Having said that, the bad part of AVF's review was the viewing angles:
"Unfortunately, whilst the 55ES8000 can deliver some impressive blacks, where the use of Samsung’s SPVA panel has its downside is in terms of viewing angles. Sadly these were very limited and if you were sat anywhere but dead-centre to the 55ES8000 the colours and blacks would immediately begin to wash out. The same was true if you stood up and looked down at the 55ES8000, so you will need to be very careful when positioning the display, especially somewhere high such as above a fireplace."
This is clearly bad news for anyone viewing the TV evenly slightly off-axis and likely means if a group of people are watching the TV together, only one seat on the same couch will have optimum PQ. That is kind of disappointing for a top-of-the-line TV. This is obviously an area where Plasmas and IPS panel LCDs will easily outperform the UNxxES8000, though the IPS panel LCDs will have much worse black levels and still washout on the vertical axis.
David Katzmaier probably is biased towards Plasma since his top 5 TVs for PQ only include 4 Plasmas (http://reviews.cnet.com/best-hdtvs/?tag=leftnav). However, interestingly enough even the CCFL-LCD models from 2011 by Samsung have better blacks (about half as bright): the LNxxD550 and LNxxD630. That's 0.0052 fL for the D630 and 0.0044 fL for the cheaper D550. Those value-priced models also come with S-PVA LCD panels (or in some cases A-MVA or S-MVA), yet somehow manage to get better blacks without anything remotely close to local dimming. So, as someone who is a fan of Samsung TVs, which LED-LCD from their lineup this year offers the best overall PQ? Is it the ES8000 or is it a cheaper ES series model like the ES6xx0 or ES7xx0 models? Which has the most PQ bang for the buck?


HMMMM...... coming from a user that has "plasma" in his username I would take all that with a grain of salt as well. It's funny how the plasma fanboys have to come over to our thread and try to defend their buzzing heater and try to justify their purchase of a plasma TV. The proof is over in the VT50 thread where almost 80% of the people have video issues. I'm not trying to stir up issues here I just find it funny how we have users that are clearly plasma owners coming here and trying to make it seem like the ES8000 is not a good TV. I do not care what anyone says about aTV. I just care what I see and the ES8000 blows away any plasma for a bright punchy picture hands down.

Edit - I would also like to add that I know LED's have issues too with uniformity and clouding etc. But those are minimal issues. I will take the ES8000 anyday over any plasmas such as the VT50 which suffers far more serious issues like the video probems. The above poster only wants to talk about blacks as well, where as PeterG linked us to two reviews and from the other 10 or so I read that say the ES8000 has really good blacks. To be honest I dont know how much better blacks I can see.
Edited by Gas0linE - 7/14/12 at 5:04pm
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post #1599 of 15499
7/14/12 at 4:56pm
If you hover over my screen name and click "all posts" or "threads started", you'll find that I mainly post in the Display Calibration and LCD Flat Panel Displays sections.
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post #1600 of 15499
7/14/12 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post

Apart from user comments, which in some cases are unfortunately, and understandly, biased in favour of their chosen TV, the only option is to go from reviews from sites which you trust.
Here are two reviews of the ES7000 and the ES8000 from a site which I do trust:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ue55es8000-ue46es8000-201205301790.htm
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ue40es7000-ue46es7000-201207141924.htm
David MacKenzie, the calibrator in the above tests, was also one of 4 calibrators to participate in the 2012 Flat Panel Shootout which I referenced previously.

Thanks; based on those reviews, both TVs are more alike than different in terms of overall PQ (at least after calibration).

However, does it matter that the models tested are the European versions and not the U.S. ones? (I live in the U.S.)

Also, this is a little off-topic, but they mention use of a Klein K-10 colorimeter for their calibrations but don't say anything about a spectro. Do they use one to profile the colorimeter off of on the actual display being reviewed/tested?
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post #1601 of 15499
7/14/12 at 5:19pm
Gentlemen, to each their own, each type of displays have their merits, each excel in some areas vs., others.

I wish in all honesty, they wouldn't make a "Best HDTV of the year".
They should really divide each section and judge both of them separately, LED/LCD and Plasma. They are apples and oranges.

Either one properly configured will deliver very good results, personally, I am in favor of LED/LCD and don't favor plasma.

Discussions about which are best vs. the other technology are not productive.
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post #1602 of 15499
7/14/12 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

If you hover over my screen name and click "all posts" or "threads started", you'll find that I mainly post in the Display Calibration and LCD Flat Panel Displays sections.

Well that is pretty good at least I guess. May I ask what Kind of TV you currently own? I would also like to say that the CNET calibrations do look pretty damn good! I will give David credit for that.
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post #1603 of 15499
7/14/12 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Gentlemen, to each their own, each type of displays have their merits, each excel in some areas vs., others.
I wish in all honesty, they wouldn't make a "Best HDTV of the year".
They should really divide each section and judge both of them separately, LED/LCD and Plasma. They are apples and oranges.
Either one properly configured will deliver very good results, personally, I am in favor of LED/LCD and don't favor plasma.
Discussions about which are best vs. the other technology are not productive.

My earlier post was not intended to start any LCD vs. Plasma debate, just compare the ES8000 to other Samsungs and point out that the PQ of this model is great head-on but the viewing angle could be at least a little wider. I also prefer LCD/LED over Plasma, though only slightly. As such, I'm not a 'fanboy' of any particular display tech, but I do feel Samsung makes some of the most visually striking TVs (both in terms of PQ and design). I especially like the advanced picture controls like 10-pt white balance and 3D CMS found on this year's ES6100 and higher series models (and E6500 and higher series models on the Plasma side).
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post #1604 of 15499
7/14/12 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Gentlemen, to each their own, each type of displays have their merits, each excel in some areas vs., others.
I wish in all honesty, they wouldn't make a "Best HDTV of the year".
They should really divide each section and judge both of them separately, LED/LCD and Plasma. They are apples and oranges.
Either one properly configured will deliver very good results, personally, I am in favor of LED/LCD and don't favor plasma.
Discussions about which are best vs. the other technology are not productive.

I agree. I am done posting about led vs plasma. My appologies.
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post #1605 of 15499
7/14/12 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

Well that is pretty good at least I guess. May I ask what Kind of TV you currently own? I would also like to say that the CNET calibrations do look pretty damn good! I will give David credit for that.

I have several Samsung CCFL-LCDs and most recently got a LG CCFL-LCD. I basically care about PQ only when buying a TV and like to get the most bang for the buck PQ-wise since my TV budget is usually on the lower side (which is why I have stuck with the CCFL models so far). However, my next TV will probably be a LED-LCD, unless OLED becomes an affordable reality sooner than later. Also, I think 3D will become a more critical feature to have in the near future given the rise in 3D BD movies and 3D console video games.
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post #1606 of 15499
7/14/12 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I have several Samsung CCFL-LCDs and most recently got a LG CCFL-LCD. I basically care about PQ only when buying a TV and like to get the most bang for the buck PQ-wise since my TV budget is usually on the lower side (which is why I have stuck with the CCFL models so far). However, my next TV will probably be a LED-LCD, unless OLED becomes an affordable reality sooner than later. Also, I think 3D will become a more critical feature to have in the near future given the rise in 3D BD movies and 3D console video games.

Nice. I was looking into OLED as well before I got my ES8000, and then I found out they will debut for around 8-10 grand and I was like yep, maybe in 3-5 years when they come down. I saw the Samsung OLED TV's at CES 2012 and trust me they look mind blowing! I will get one when they come down to the 2-3 grand mark for a decent size.
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post #1607 of 15499
7/14/12 at 7:00pm
After hearing internals from LG et. al. don't expect prices to come down very fast.

Although that may seem counterintuitive, because of the ease of the technology, OLEDs can be produced by a process similar to ink jet printing.
The big makers have a vested interest in keeping prices high to milk it for everything it's worth. For example, Samsung, only has 10,000 units of their OLED set for Canada this year.

Not only that, there's some issues with OLED technology, give it a few years to balance out and prove longevity. Right now, there's burn-in after time much like plasma when it was new, along with blobs, splotches and lines, although those are only visible on black screens, it's still an issue.
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post #1608 of 15499
7/14/12 at 8:22pm
One thing I hear little mention of is the fact the ES8000's run very cool. I am coming from a pre Kurig Pioneer plasma (5070) to a 65es8000 and can happily report that the small room I have this setup in is nice and cool now. My plasma was like a space heater in the room.
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post #1609 of 15499
7/14/12 at 8:39pm
You mean you don't like your home tanning wall unit? ;-)
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post #1610 of 15499
7/14/12 at 8:50pm
I pickup my 65" on the 24th. Will post pictures once its home.
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post #1611 of 15499
7/14/12 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lithium2k View Post

Correct which is why I am not considering plasma. I am surprised that people can tolerate the issues with Edge-lit, but I may be too critical.
I am hoping that seeing one the of the full array sets will wow me but I am not holding my breath. I may just have to wait for prices to drop on OLED. Thanks for the input though.
You should consider the Elite. The no issues with mura whatsoever.
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post #1612 of 15499
7/14/12 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

I pickup my 65" on the 24th. Will post pictures once its home.

Very nice! Bet you cant wait. Best blu ray to play on the first day is Avatar. Thats my choice for showing what the es8000 can do.
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post #1613 of 15499
7/14/12 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

HMMMM...... coming from a user that has "plasma" in his username I would take all that with a grain of salt as well. It's funny how the plasma fanboys have to come over to our thread and try to defend their buzzing heater and try to justify their purchase of a plasma TV. The proof is over in the VT50 thread where almost 80% of the people have video issues. I'm not trying to stir up issues here I just find it funny how we have users that are clearly plasma owners coming here and trying to make it seem like the ES8000 is not a good TV. I do not care what anyone says about aTV. I just care what I see and the ES8000 blows away any plasma for a bright punchy picture hands down.
Edit - I would also like to add that I know LED's have issues too with uniformity and clouding etc. But those are minimal issues. I will take the ES8000 anyday over any plasmas such as the VT50 which suffers far more serious issues like the video probems. The above poster only wants to talk about blacks as well, where as PeterG linked us to two reviews and from the other 10 or so I read that say the ES8000 has really good blacks. To be honest I dont know how much better blacks I can see.
Gas0line, I am not sure you are aware of this, but your posts lack an technical or objective information when you make your claims. I have an Elite and a VT50 in my home, which should tell you that I do not care about the technology itself, but the performance.

Heat dissipation is directly correlated to energy consumption. LED's have a static rating as the LED's are alway emitting the same level of luminance unless it is a local dimming panel (a real one, where the LED's actually dim). A plasmas energy consumption varies as it is directly contingent upon the content as a things such as full field whites require the panel to increase voltage, which is where the APL circuit kicks in. Ohms law will give you an idea of heat transmission as consumed energy must be dissipated in the form of heat.

If you knew how to convert candelas or what they meant you would see that the black level readings from Katz and AVF are roughly the same, which means last years models did in fact have better black levels. As plasma PZ mentioned, the Samsung CCFL LCD panels have measured lower MLL.

What I have been finding when people mention inky blacks on these panels, or other LCD for that matter it is based off daytime viewing. My Samsung 5271 had jet black blacks, but once the lights dimmed a little, the blacks turned blue as the MLL measured around .025. If you also note in that review they always reference "for an LCD" and do not mention local dimming as it appears they are aligned with CNET in their stance, since the LED do not actually dim, which would tell us that apparently do not have high expectations.

Since this review is more to your liking, and they felt the VT is the best TV they've ever tested since the Kuros, does that make the VT better? Or are the deficiencies only applicable to the VT in this case.

I know objectivity is not easy when are emotionally attached to our investments, which is only natural, but calling people fanboys isn't the correct approach, as it just screams bias when opinions aren't aligned with your own, IMO.
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post #1614 of 15499
7/15/12 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Thanks; based on those reviews, both TVs are more alike than different in terms of overall PQ (at least after calibration).
However, does it matter that the models tested are the European versions and not the U.S. ones? (I live in the U.S.)
Also, this is a little off-topic, but they mention use of a Klein K-10 colorimeter for their calibrations but don't say anything about a spectro. Do they use one to profile the colorimeter off of on the actual display being reviewed/tested?

I cannot comment on the differences, major or minor between the US and EU versions but I can say that since he was a participant in the flat panel shootout in the US he was able to see that the noise reduction filter in the US version operated correctly ("off" really meant off) as opposed to the EU version (where "off" did not completely disable noise reduction). As regards the use or lack of use of a spectrometer, since it is not mentioned in several of the reviews I looked at, I would guess that he does not have one available to him.
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post #1615 of 15499
7/15/12 at 8:47am
Wow! The whole LED/plasma war heats up like a plasma-panel ignited heatwave over America. Why are the plasmatics lobbying so aggressively over here??? I have not posted once on a plasma thread. LOL Anyway, I think people considering the Elite are 99% NOT the same peeps giving the 8000 a major serious look. If I was truly budgeted for Elite, that purchase would be a no-brainer.

But, at the 2000-3300 range...thats a different story..and a story where "viewing angle and black level" issues are simply blown out of proportion for debate. I have a large room and no one has (even me) has flinched about off-axis problems. The 8000 blacks are mostly pretty frikkin inky and very acceptable as compared to plasma and their issues. So as Nitra said, easy to live with and love the 8000. It's perfect in its imperfections.

Yes, I saw the VT, liked it very much...but for most viewing it did not even sway me from the 6000 Sammy. Sorry, it is what it is.

I know that after hours of shopping plasma I would not want to own one and live with their issues period. maybe 2% of my veiwing would be done in optimal plasma viewing conditions....WTF is that good for???. Plasma days are simply ...in question.

No need to get over-technical, I understand how emotionally invested all of us are in our gear.

Seriouslly, I have/was obsessed with "Video Essentials" and the like since back in 97 when I had flagship Sony monitor and Toshiba DVD player, if you calibrate to the true "correct videophile ISF" settings on your units you filter out much of the tv's capability and entertainment "enjoyment" factor which is why..... I have relaxed over the years on this practice and.... as I look at this 8000 I think of Maximus Decimus Meridius and what he would say..." ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED"...as I throw the remote down and spit on the hardwood of my "arena"! LOL

The UN60es8000 is the most entertaining 60" tv on the planet for the money period...IMH and well shopped Opinion. Yes, I saw the Elite, love it, want it, but i dont think about it for a second as i watch my 8000. ...and in the 3 weeks I have my Sammy i have not had 1 second of buyer remorse or even thought "what if" about any of my other serious contenders like the Sony HX, all Panny and Sammy plasma...and even the amazing LG at 55". I'm done and married to my Sammy, pre-nup signed...boom.

I really do like the free soundbar for everyday 99% viewing and clean setup so I just need to finally step up to a good universal for the first time. I've been a hold out but, in the spirit of cleaning up space, the wires and helping the family, I have comitted to just soundbar usage and will move my 5.1 system downstairs to the more "sound protected" space and let it rejoin my 60"Sony rpLCD for those rear moments where we need to blow the bricks off the side of my house.
Edited by Bladerunner1959 - 7/15/12 at 8:54am
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post #1616 of 15499
7/15/12 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

Wow! The whole LED/plasma war heats up like a plasma-panel ignited heatwave over America. Why are the plasmatics lobbying so aggressively over here??? I have not posted once on a plasma thread. LOL Anyway, I think people considering the Elite are 99% NOT the same peeps giving the 8000 a major serious look. If I was truly budgeted for Elite, that purchase would be a no-brainer.
But, at the 2000-3300 range...thats a different story..and a story where "viewing angle and black level" issues are simply blown out of proportion for debate. I have a large room and no one has (even me) has flinched about off-axis problems. The 8000 blacks are mostly pretty frikkin inky and very acceptable as compared to plasma and their issues. So as Nitra said, easy to live with and love the 8000. It's perfect in its imperfections.
Yes, I saw the VT, liked it very much...but for most viewing it did not even sway me from the 6000 Sammy. Sorry, it is what it is.
I know that after hours of shopping plasma I would not want to own one and live with their issues period. maybe 2% of my veiwing would be done in optimal plasma viewing conditions....WTF is that good for???. Plasma days are simply ...in question.
No need to get over-technical, I understand how emotionally invested all of us are in our gear.
Seriouslly, I have/was obsessed with "Video Essentials" and the like since back in 97 when I had flagship Sony monitor and Toshiba DVD player, if you calibrate to the true "correct videophile ISF" settings on your units you filter out much of the tv's capability and entertainment "enjoyment" factor which is why..... I have relaxed over the years on this practice and.... as I look at this 8000 I think of Maximus Decimus Meridius and what he would say..." ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED"...as I throw the remote down and spit on the hardwood of my "arena"! LOL
The UN60es8000 is the most entertaining 60" tv on the planet for the money period...IMH and well shopped Opinion. Yes, I saw the Elite, love it, want it, but i dont think about it for a second as i watch my 8000. ...and in the 3 weeks I have my Sammy i have not had 1 second of buyer remorse or even thought "what if" about any of my other serious contenders like the Sony HX, all Panny and Sammy plasma...and even the amazing LG at 55". I'm done and married to my Sammy, pre-nup signed...boom.
I really do like the free soundbar for everyday 99% viewing and clean setup so I just need to finally step up to a good universal for the first time. I've been a hold out but, in the spirit of cleaning up space, the wires and helping the family, I have comitted to just soundbar usage and will move my 5.1 system downstairs to the more "sound protected" space and let it rejoin my 60"Sony rpLCD for those rear moments where we need to blow the bricks off the side of my house.

+10

Very well put. I'm in the same boat as you. Everyone I show the es8000 to are simply blown away from the rich vibrant picture it produces. It is a very entertaining TV to watch. I have also never posted in a plasma thread, however I do browse over to the VT50 forum to read all of the problems people are having and the funny thing is , there is more negative stuff than positive. It is a owners thread, unless I have a serious question about the panel, I am not going to post just to troll the thread.
Edited by Gas0linE - 7/15/12 at 9:26am
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post #1617 of 15499
7/15/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

Wow! The whole LED/plasma war heats up like a plasma-panel ignited heatwave over America. Why are the plasmatics lobbying so aggressively over here??? I have not posted once on a plasma thread. LOL Anyway, I think people considering the Elite are 99% NOT the same peeps giving the 8000 a major serious look. If I was truly budgeted for Elite, that purchase would be a no-brainer.
But, at the 2000-3300 range...thats a different story..and a story where "viewing angle and black level" issues are simply blown out of proportion for debate. I have a large room and no one has (even me) has flinched about off-axis problems. The 8000 blacks are mostly pretty frikkin inky and very acceptable as compared to plasma and their issues. So as Nitra said, easy to live with and love the 8000. It's perfect in its imperfections.
Yes, I saw the VT, liked it very much...but for most viewing it did not even sway me from the 6000 Sammy. Sorry, it is what it is.
I know that after hours of shopping plasma I would not want to own one and live with their issues period. maybe 2% of my veiwing would be done in optimal plasma viewing conditions....WTF is that good for???. Plasma days are simply ...in question.
No need to get over-technical, I understand how emotionally invested all of us are in our gear.
Seriouslly, I have/was obsessed with "Video Essentials" and the like since back in 97 when I had flagship Sony monitor and Toshiba DVD player, if you calibrate to the true "correct videophile ISF" settings on your units you filter out much of the tv's capability and entertainment "enjoyment" factor which is why..... I have relaxed over the years on this practice and.... as I look at this 8000 I think of Maximus Decimus Meridius and what he would say..." ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED"...as I throw the remote down and spit on the hardwood of my "arena"! LOL
The UN60es8000 is the most entertaining 60" tv on the planet for the money period...IMH and well shopped Opinion. Yes, I saw the Elite, love it, want it, but i dont think about it for a second as i watch my 8000. ...and in the 3 weeks I have my Sammy i have not had 1 second of buyer remorse or even thought "what if" about any of my other serious contenders like the Sony HX, all Panny and Sammy plasma...and even the amazing LG at 55". I'm done and married to my Sammy, pre-nup signed...boom.
I really do like the free soundbar for everyday 99% viewing and clean setup so I just need to finally step up to a good universal for the first time. I've been a hold out but, in the spirit of cleaning up space, the wires and helping the family, I have comitted to just soundbar usage and will move my 5.1 system downstairs to the more "sound protected" space and let it rejoin my 60"Sony rpLCD for those rear moments where we need to blow the bricks off the side of my house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

+10
Very well put. I'm in the same boat as you. Everyone I show the es8000 to are simply blown away from the rich vibrant picture it produces. It is a very entertaining TV to watch.

Would either one of you guys mind posting some pics of the ES8000 in action. I had the 60" ES8000 for a couple days and gave up on it for the VT50 and I'm thinking about jumping back and getting the 65ES8000. I'm just not getting that "pop" that I was hoping for in the VT50. Thanks!
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post #1618 of 15499
7/15/12 at 9:28am
One thing to keep in mind is that the glossy screens Samsung uses on their premium models are very dark and keep excellent contrast ratios and black levels in a bright or moderately lit room. The downside is more mirror-like reflections versus a matte screen but it certainly does make the PQ look great when ambient light cannot be controlled. I know Samsung used to call this feature their 'ultra clear panel' (though I don't know if they've changed the name for it), since I have a LNB650 from 2009 that has this kind of screen coating. Dark room viewing might be different, since screen coating no longer matters in those cases, but I'm willing to bet most here do more TV watching in brighter lighting conditions given LED/LCD's strengths in that area.
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post #1619 of 15499
7/15/12 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

The 8000 blacks are mostly pretty frikkin inky and very acceptable as compared to plasma and their issues. So as Nitra said, easy to live with and love the 8000. It's perfect in its imperfections.


Yes, I saw the VT, liked it very much...but for most viewing it did not even sway me from the 6000 Sammy. Sorry, it is what it is.
I know that after hours of shopping plasma I would not want to own one and live with their issues period. maybe 2% of my veiwing would be done in optimal plasma viewing conditions....WTF is that good for???. Plasma days are simply ...in question.

I agree. Optimal viewing conditions is a very valid point why many people don't opt for a plasma, along with heat/power consumption and the need for some rather finnicky operation to avoid some of it's video issues. Most people have TV in the living room where life goes on and lighting conditions are wide and varied.


No need to get over-technical, I understand how emotionally invested all of us are in our gear.
Seriouslly, I have/was obsessed with "Video Essentials" and the like since back in 97 when I had flagship Sony monitor and Toshiba DVD player, if you calibrate to the true "correct videophile ISF" settings on your units you filter out much of the tv's capability and entertainment "enjoyment" factor which is why..... I have relaxed over the years on this practice and.... as I look at this 8000 I think of Maximus Decimus Meridius and what he would say..." ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED"...as I throw the remote down and spit on the hardwood of my "arena"! LOL

I agree here also. I used to be caught up in the never ending process of seeking calibration perfection. It's good to know what goes into obtaining optimum pictue settings and why, but as you say, in the end are you entertained or continuously searching for some last ounce of questionable picture quality. An excellent picute quality can be attained with the use of Digital Video Essentials , Disney WOW, and a few other discs to obtain Media Assisted Setting and these discs will help you get it.

The UN60es8000 is the most entertaining 60" tv on the planet for the money period...IMH and well shopped Opinion. Yes, I saw the Elite, love it, want it, but i dont think about it for a second as i watch my 8000. ...and in the 3 weeks

The ES800 is about the best buy currently in larger LED/LCD panel TVs. There are also some other contenders out there that rival plasma TV such as these form Panasonic:

http://hdguru.com/ces-2012-post-show-report-part-four-panasonics-hdtv-ledlcd-line/7243/

In that article is states:

"Panasonic also significantly raised the performance bar with its 2012 WT series. During the CES demo the new WT models outperformed every other LED LCD we saw at CES in viewing angle, maintaining color saturation and contrast from even extreme viewing positions (see photo below). This is the first time we have witnessed off-axis LED LCD viewing that rivals plasma performance. "

So, a lot of progress this year on the LED/LCD front from both Samsung and some others.
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post #1620 of 15499
7/15/12 at 12:50pm
Going back to the CNET review of this set for a moment:

"The good: The beautifully thin Samsung UNES8000 LED TV seems to have come from a year or two in the future. Its massive feature set includes a touch-pad remote, IR blaster, four pairs of 3D glasses, motion and voice command, and the industry's most capable Smart TV platform. Its picture quality boasts superb color accuracy along with industry-leading video processing and 3D performance.

The bad: Lighter black levels and imperfect screen uniformity hamper its picture significantly, especially for such an expensive TV. Samsung charges too much for extra features that are largely unnecessary and poorly implemented.

The bottom line: Although it hits plenty of high points, the Samsung UNES8000 LED TV cannot ultimately justify its high price."

Looking at this basic overview of the review, it's actually not too bad. I do agree with most here that David seems to weigh black levels much more heavily than any other aspect of picture performance, which means one should give its strengths of color accuracy, video processing, and 3D performance more credit than he does. Screen uniformity is an issue for me (one of the reasons I typically stray from edge-lit LED-LCDs), but this set is pretty decent in that department, so nothing major to complain about unless you get a bad sample of the TV that's more prone to these issues than most (samples). One thing I do agree with regarding the review, is that the high price could be cut down significantly if the unnecessary features were eliminated or at least minimized.

If you think about getting the most PQ bang for the buck, a lower ES series model should be worth considering. I'm willing to bet David would have given this set more credit for its strengths if a) he didn't think black levels outweigh everything else and b) the price was much lower. If I was to buy a Samsung this year, I'd likely get something like a ES6100, since it should have comparable PQ and advanced picture controls without the extra features that I don't care for or want to pay for. In fact, certain ES6xx0 models even have a matte screen, which might be optimal for avoiding mirror-like reflections.


It's also worth mentioning CR.org has reviewed many ES models including the 8000 series and the reviews are quite good. Certain samples are listed with 'moderate' viewing angles and others are listed as 'narrow', so YMMV in this respect.
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 7/15/12 at 12:59pm
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