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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 72

post #2131 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

Glad your loving your set. I am too! The picture quality on this set is stunning. My brother may be getting the 65 inch version here in the next week or so.

He won't be disappointed.
post #2132 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

I can happily say I not seeing all this dimming up and down. If it is happening, I'm just not seeing it. Or as GasOlinE says, "It looks gorgeous and the auto dimming does not bother me."
I personally couldn't be more pleased with this set. It has performed flawlessly.
But then again, I'm not looking for every little flaw that any set could possibly produce given a certain amount conditions to appear.

I really hate it when people keep saying things like this - that anybody who notices an issue with the set is "looking" for a problem. No, I wasn't looking for a problem with the set. It was actually impossible for me not to notice it. I just decribed above how simply watching the first 10 minutes of Next Generation showed the auto-dimming in action like a dozen times, ruining all the space scenes. If that doesn't bother some people, good for them, but this is a legitimate issue - if they either restore the blacks to movie mode or allow us to disable auto-dimming in standard mode, then it won't be an issue. For now, I don't see how some people say they don't see it - my girlfriend and my friend this morning both saw it easily during a short 10 minute sample.
post #2133 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

How's the rest of the movie?

Honestly, the remastering job was incredible on this series -

But, many of the space scenes were indeed very negatively affected by the auto-dimming. Sorry, but that's just how it was - you could very, very easily see the screen dim and then brighten, throughout many of the space shots. It was actually quite distracting. Meanwhile, my girlfriend's folks' sub-$500 Vizio from 2 years ago never does anything like that. I don't know why people are so willing to let things like that go on such an expensive set. Yes, the picture is incredible - but this auto-dimming certainly has a negative impact on numerous types of scenes. So because I like sci-fi I shouldn't own a Samsung because of auto-dimming?
post #2134 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I actually just finished calibrating with the AVS709 disc. That disc is awesome. The last time I used it was like 4 years ago and it didn't have all of the features it does now. Anyhow, I found that the White Balance was one of the most critical changes I made to my set. Out of the box, the color on this Samsung in standard mode is among the best I've seen in HDTV sets. I used the standard settings of the 709 disc to adjust the "color" setting. First go into
Menu>Advanced Settings>RGB Only Mode>Blue
Then go into the AVS709 disc for the Color/Tint adjustment (#4 - Flashing Color Bars) and adjust until the blue is barely distinguishable from the flashing box. I actually only had to adjust my set 1 notch for color and tint (to 49 for both).
But then when I went to the "Misc Test Patterns" of the disc, I came across test patter A-4. This test pattern showed that while green and blue were great, the Red color was clipping at a different level than the other two. It was actually clipping the entire range just about.
To adjust this, with the A-4 test flashing, go into Menu>Advanced Settings>White Balance, and then adjust R (or G or B) gain or offset up and down until only values above 35 are clipped.
After that my set was really dialed in. Here are my other settings:
Standard
Backlight: 8
Contrast: 75
Brightness: 40
Sharpness: 5
Color: 49
Tint: G51 R49
Advanced Settings
Dyanmic Contrast: Medium
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: Off
White Balance: I only adjusted "G-Offset" to 50 and "R-Gain" to 10 (most sets should differ on this adjustment)
Gamma: 0
Picture Options
Color Tone: Standard
Digital Noise Filter: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
Auto Motion Plus: Custom (Blur-0; Judder 10)
LED Motion Plus: Off
Please forgive if these questions seem simple. I had a Mitusbishi RPTV for 9 years that I calibrated the crap out of and it looked beautiful, living in the service menu. I am still unsure about all these new options for LED's.

I used the blue and green filters from my old Avia disk for color and tint. I used the red filter for another screen. The RPTV didn't have options for gain and offset so I don't know how to use those. I have the TV in RBG for Red and put up A-4. Starting with the default settings, I do not see flashing all the way from 0 - 50. The only time I can see the flashing bars is when I have the menu up from either the tv or dvd player and the bars inside of the menu are flashing. What should I be looking at? What is the different between gain and offset? As well as Color Space? Is there a specific order that they should be calibrated? What am I looking for when doing the A-4 pattern? Should the flashing bars for each color be the same color? Should 251 not flash? What do you mean by clipped?
post #2135 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I really hate it when people keep saying things like this - that anybody who notices an issue with the set is "looking" for a problem. No, I wasn't looking for a problem with the set. It was actually impossible for me not to notice it. I just decribed above how simply watching the first 10 minutes of Next Generation showed the auto-dimming in action like a dozen times, ruining all the space scenes. If that doesn't bother some people, good for them, but this is a legitimate issue - if they either restore the blacks to movie mode or allow us to disable auto-dimming in standard mode, then it won't be an issue. For now, I don't see how some people say they don't see it - my girlfriend and my friend this morning both saw it easily during a short 10 minute sample.

I notice it, but it does seem to enhance the video quality. I't doesn't ruin the experience at all, if anything I notice it helps the picture. Could this be due to Micro Dimming pro (256 zones) to Micro dimming ultimate (576 zones)? My set looks nothing as bad or noticeable as you mention. Keep in mind the people here that say it doesn't bother are using ES8000's with MD ultimate. You have a 7500 with MD pro. There is a obvious difference between the two as I first owned the 7500 then went to the 8000 (both in standard mode) I noticed a difference right off the bat. So please dont get mad when someone with a 8000 series says they don't notice it or don't mind it. The 7500 and 8000 have different levels of micro dimming.

So if you say the picture is dimming and looks aweful keep in mind Micro dimming pro is adjusting the picture in 256 zones. When the 8000 dims, its adjusting the picture in 576 zones making more zones in the picture look better (contrast etc). This might not be the case in your situation but its something that should be taken in consideration.
Edited by Gas0linE - 7/30/12 at 9:34am
post #2136 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

I notice it, but it does seem to enhance the video quality. I't doesn't ruin the experience at all, if anything I notice it helps the picture. Could this be due to Micro Dimming pro (256 zones) to Micro dimming ultimate (576 zones)? My set looks nothing as bad or noticeable as you mention. Keep in mind the people here that say it doesn't bother are using ES8000's with MD ultimate. You have a 7500 with MD pro. There is a obvious difference between the two as I first owned the 7500 then went to the 8000 (both in standard mode) I noticed a difference right off the bat. So please dont get mad when someone with a 8000 series says they don't notice it or don't mind it. The 7500 and 8000 have different levels of micro dimming.
So if you say the picture is dimming and looks aweful keep in mind Micro dimming pro is adjusting the picture in 256 zones. When the 8000 dims, its adjusting the picture in 576 zones making more zones in the picture look better (contrast etc). This might not be the case in your situation but its something that should be taken in consideration.

Well said. It does present a possibility. I honestly do not see the effects of dimming like eagle_2 is experiencing.
post #2137 of 16126
I see alot of talk about standard and movie mode and it confuses me. What is the difference between the two if you use the same settings?
post #2138 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by norse360 View Post

I see alot of talk about standard and movie mode and it confuses me. What is the difference between the two if you use the same settings?

I'm not the expert on the matter, but from what I gather the micro dimming is not working properly due possibly to a firmware item in movie mode.

So at the moment everyone is using standard mode with good results. I am personally. The difference evidently is huge. I have never actually tried the movie mode based on what has been the talk around here.
post #2139 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

I'm not the expert on the matter, but from what I gather the micro dimming is not working properly due possibly to a firmware item in movie mode.
So at the moment everyone is using standard mode with good results. I am personally. The difference evidently is huge. I have never actually tried the movie mode based on what has been the talk around here.

But why have everyone been using movie mode at all?
post #2140 of 16126
Movie is meant to be the closest to industry standard 6500K while standard mode is blown out like you'd expect on a classic television.
6500K is what all movies are dialed into.
post #2141 of 16126
I would like to chime in and say that CE dimming is an issue for me as well. I have an es8000 not an es7500. I can certainly see the screen dim and it does occasionally take you out of the moment. The point is we should be able to have this control and maximize this panel. It seems to me that obviously CE dimming is not the same as microdimming. If you take a look at several lower end models of Samsung, you will see people returning their sets specifically because of CE Dimming. It really seems to adversely affect the picture for many people. Their is no reason why we would shouldn't be able turn off ce dimming while still enjoying the ultimate microdimming processing. Why not at least make it accessible in the service menu if you are worried that the average joe will mess up their set?

Don't get me wrong, I love my set yet I also feel that this isn't acceptable. I look forward to the fix. CE dimming is kinda lame.
post #2142 of 16126
Email Samsung, I posted the proper emails a couple of pages back, let them know your thoughts, if you don't, we won't see any changes.
post #2143 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

Please forgive if these questions seem simple. I had a Mitusbishi RPTV for 9 years that I calibrated the crap out of and it looked beautiful, living in the service menu. I am still unsure about all these new options for LED's.
I used the blue and green filters from my old Avia disk for color and tint. I used the red filter for another screen. The RPTV didn't have options for gain and offset so I don't know how to use those. I have the TV in RBG for Red and put up A-4. Starting with the default settings, I do not see flashing all the way from 0 - 50. The only time I can see the flashing bars is when I have the menu up from either the tv or dvd player and the bars inside of the menu are flashing. What should I be looking at? What is the different between gain and offset? As well as Color Space? Is there a specific order that they should be calibrated? What am I looking for when doing the A-4 pattern? Should the flashing bars for each color be the same color? Should 251 not flash? What do you mean by clipped?

First, when you say you have the TV in RGB for Red and put up A-4, you're referring to the Samsung ES8000, right? I want to make sure we're on the same page.

Second, to adjust the white balance of the set, you should NOT be in RGB mode nor using a filter. You should be in a standard color mode with all colors visible. I apologize if I was unclear before, but you only want to be in RGB mode when setting the standard Color and Tint settings. After you set the color (in blue mode, with the flashing blue block) and tint, you want to exit RGB mode back into the regular color range.

For White Balance, simply start up the A-4 test, and look for all of the flashing blocks. Anything left of 235 should be flashing, and it's okay if blocks right of 235 don't flash/blend in. If the flashing blocks aren't showing up at 235 or below, then go into the White Balance menu to adjust.

Clipping is when the blocks no longer flash. It means the detail in that range is clipped, and all of the detail blends in with the solid background image. That's why they no longer flash. The A-4 pattern helps set your white balance by testing to see that the colors only clip data above 235.
Quote:
Originally Posted by norse360 View Post

I see alot of talk about standard and movie mode and it confuses me. What is the difference between the two if you use the same settings?

The difference is likely default color temperature, and currently there are a few settings in Movie mode that are not available in standard, and (speculation) one of the features of the set (micro-dimming) is not working in Movie Mode.
post #2144 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Email Samsung, I posted the proper emails a couple of pages back, let them know your thoughts, if you don't, we won't see any changes.

Nitra, what about your friend you have that works for Samsung? I thought you said you had a open ticket or he was going to pass the info along to the engineering team?
post #2145 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas0linE View Post

I notice it, but it does seem to enhance the video quality. I't doesn't ruin the experience at all, if anything I notice it helps the picture. Could this be due to Micro Dimming pro (256 zones) to Micro dimming ultimate (576 zones)? My set looks nothing as bad or noticeable as you mention. Keep in mind the people here that say it doesn't bother are using ES8000's with MD ultimate. You have a 7500 with MD pro. There is a obvious difference between the two as I first owned the 7500 then went to the 8000 (both in standard mode) I noticed a difference right off the bat. So please dont get mad when someone with a 8000 series says they don't notice it or don't mind it. The 7500 and 8000 have different levels of micro dimming.
So if you say the picture is dimming and looks aweful keep in mind Micro dimming pro is adjusting the picture in 256 zones. When the 8000 dims, its adjusting the picture in 576 zones making more zones in the picture look better (contrast etc). This might not be the case in your situation but its something that should be taken in consideration.

That is indeed a possibility that since I own the ES7500 maybe the auto-dimming or micro-dimming is acting differently. All I know is overall I'm blown away by the image, but when auto-dimming kicks in during a scene - like with the Next Generation blu-ray throughout the episode - then it really takes me out of the moment. Bottom line is the set shouldn't be doing anything to decrease the image quality - and dimming the screen to the point where you notice the screen dimming and brightening during a scene is definitely decreasing the quality in my book.

Is this auto-dimming actually called CE dimming? Is that what I would refer to when complaining to Samsung?
post #2146 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Movie is meant to be the closest to industry standard 6500K while standard mode is blown out like you'd expect on a classic television.
6500K is what all movies are dialed into.

Ok, thanks for the answer. What kind of "hidden" settings creates the difference between these modes?
post #2147 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

That is indeed a possibility that since I own the ES7500 maybe the auto-dimming or micro-dimming is acting differently. All I know is overall I'm blown away by the image, but when auto-dimming kicks in during a scene - like with the Next Generation blu-ray throughout the episode - then it really takes me out of the moment. Bottom line is the set shouldn't be doing anything to decrease the image quality - and dimming the screen to the point where you notice the screen dimming and brightening during a scene is definitely decreasing the quality in my book.
Is this auto-dimming actually called CE dimming? Is that what I would refer to when complaining to Samsung?

Doesn't auto/CE dimming reportedly turn off if you adjust the brightness level beyond a certain point?
post #2148 of 16126
I have a question about connecting a pc to the tv with a nvidia card. In nvidia control panel you can choose YCbCr444 or RGB as digital color format. What is actuallt the right one for this tv? If I choose RGB and watch a movie I can see that the brightness is turned up when there is a black scene, in YCbCr444 mode the scene is much more black as it should. But how do I know which color format is the right one?
Edited by ainatar - 7/30/12 at 2:55pm
post #2149 of 16126
Ycbcr 444, unless you enable pc mode in the tv.
If you do, you will also lose processing the tv does.
post #2150 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriscoCountyJr View Post

Doesn't auto/CE dimming reportedly turn off if you adjust the brightness level beyond a certain point?

I have no idea, but I shouldn't have to set my brightness higher than it should be just to disable junk. I have my brightness on 46 which seems to disable the screen from turning off during fades to black, but that hasn't stopped the auto-dimming from working constantly throughout whatever I'm watching. I wouldn't want to set my brightness any higher than 46 - any brighter and I'd lose black depth.
post #2151 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Ycbcr 444, unless you enable pc mode in the tv.
If you do, you will also lose processing the tv does.

So then if I enable pc mode in the tv (which should also cut down on image lag?) the Nvidia setting should be RGB?

And I still don't have any idea if micro-dimming still functions in PC mode.
Edited by eagle_2 - 7/30/12 at 3:34pm
post #2152 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I actually just finished calibrating with the AVS709 disc. That disc is awesome. The last time I used it was like 4 years ago and it didn't have all of the features it does now. Anyhow, I found that the White Balance was one of the most critical changes I made to my set. Out of the box, the color on this Samsung in standard mode is among the best I've seen in HDTV sets. I used the standard settings of the 709 disc to adjust the "color" setting. First go into
Menu>Advanced Settings>RGB Only Mode>Blue
Then go into the AVS709 disc for the Color/Tint adjustment (#4 - Flashing Color Bars) and adjust until the blue is barely distinguishable from the flashing box. I actually only had to adjust my set 1 notch for color and tint (to 49 for both).
But then when I went to the "Misc Test Patterns" of the disc, I came across test patter A-4. This test pattern showed that while green and blue were great, the Red color was clipping at a different level than the other two. It was actually clipping the entire range just about.
To adjust this, with the A-4 test flashing, go into Menu>Advanced Settings>White Balance, and then adjust R (or G or B) gain or offset up and down until only values above 35 are clipped.
After that my set was really dialed in. Here are my other settings:
Standard
Backlight: 8
Contrast: 75
Brightness: 40
Sharpness: 5
Color: 49
Tint: G51 R49
Advanced Settings
Dyanmic Contrast: Medium
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: Off
White Balance: I only adjusted "G-Offset" to 50 and "R-Gain" to 10 (most sets should differ on this adjustment)
Gamma: 0
Picture Options
Color Tone: Standard
Digital Noise Filter: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
Auto Motion Plus: Custom (Blur-0; Judder 10)
LED Motion Plus: Off


I THINK that this post may well be the answer to my question, but I thought I would throw it out there and get some counsel from the group.

In tweaking my 46ES8000 I have found that I can easily adjust backlight, brightness and contrast to get white and black bars to show correctly on the AVS disc and the Stears&Munsil disk. However when I move on from there to see if any colors are being clipped I have found that I had to turn down contrast (impacting the white/black display) such that I wasn't clipping red.

IF I have understood the post above I might be able to adjust this clipping issue by modifying Color and/or Tint and/or R, G or B gain....

Have I interpretted things correctly?
post #2153 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

So then if I enable pc mode in the tv (which should also cut down on image lag?) the Nvidia setting should be RGB?
And I still don't have any idea if micro-dimming still functions in PC mode.


I would avoid rgb mode.
Ycbcr is correct for films
post #2154 of 16126
Is anyone actually using the Skype Camera and Integration on these TVs and can comment on the quality of the resolution and angle of the Camera. Do you have to be sitting in front of the TV or can you be on the couch 10' away and the other people see you decently? Thanks!
post #2155 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

I would avoid rgb mode.
Ycbcr is correct for films

How about when using the pc and tv in pc mode for surfing, gaming, etc. Would I still want Ycbcr or would RGB mode be correct for gaming, etc.? I believe I would be using pc mode for gaming from my Nvidia pc since it supports 4:4:4 and has low input lag similar to game mode from what I gather from other sources.
post #2156 of 16126
Looks like I'm not the only one complaining about CE Dimming (auto dimming). From a review posted on Amazon back in May for the ES6500:

"One extremely annoying "feature" of these TVs that I've found out after purchase is the "CE Dimming" feature. This is not the "ECO Dimming" or anything you can control; It's hard-coded into the certain picture modes (Standard and Native, at least). This feature is something that will reduce the backlighting when there is mostly black on the screen. (For example, if there is 100% brightness white text on a pure black screen, it would actually display at a fraction of that intensity due to the backlight dimming). I've read that this is to reduce the appearance of light bleeding in from the edges, since it's edge-lit. This "feature" annoys me significantly, particularly because I am not allowed to control it. After searching around I found out this is called "CE Dimming" and you can hack it by going into the service menu (you can find the instructions online yourself), however messing with it apparently voids the warranty. The only picture mode I found that doesn't use this is "Movie" mode. But, movie mode looks terrible with its default settings.

Movie mode is the only mode I found that doesn't use "CE Dimming", which is a huge annoyance to me. (I'd rather see edge-lighting, easily. Not sure why I can't control that, Samsung.)"



From Samygo back in 2011:

"Does anybody know if Samsung's pathetic (and craptacular) CE Dimming is capable of being disabled in the 2011(d 6500-d7000-d8000) models? CE Dimming is where the LEDs shut off completely during a very dark/black scene, making for a very unnatural transition to "black" from a lit background."


"I have the same problem with D6100.
This is very annoying. Sometimes the picture goes too dark to see anything.
This get to my nerves every time I change channel- the picture is like 1,5 seconds black, ant tv makes it darkes, so almost I cant see the left upper corner channel info (there is channel numer and so on)."


It's actually discussed all over the place - with so much hatred for this "feature" why in 2012 are we still not allowed to adjust this to our own preference? So their reasoning is so that we see less light bleed on a black screen? Seriously? So for that I have to tolerate it dimming everything I watch whenever CE Dimming sees fit? I'll take a bit of edge bleed any day - it's not even that bad on this set - it's almost non-existent actually. And again - why disable it in movie mode but force it on everywhere else? So they think people who watch movie mode won't mind light-bleed I guess? Ridiculous.

To ignore all the online complaints for so long over so many different models regarding CE Dimming, the only conclusion I can come to is that Samsung clearly doesn't care at all about their customers. If they did, they would have made this an option under advanced settings 2 years ago.
Edited by eagle_2 - 7/30/12 at 6:41pm
post #2157 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

How about when using the pc and tv in pc mode for surfing, gaming, etc. Would I still want Ycbcr or would RGB mode be correct for gaming, etc.? I believe I would be using pc mode for gaming from my Nvidia pc since it supports 4:4:4 and has low input lag similar to game mode from what I gather from other sources.


Ycbcr is still the correct mode.

If necessary enable xvycc in combination with Ycbcr, you should avoid rgb.
post #2158 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4448585 View Post

Awesome, we can discuss the games.
Yeah I got the controller too (same day as post) and plugged it in, but couldn't get the TV to recognize it.
Yeah I tried to get access again, thought maybe the controller would launch a secret menu.
If I get in, I will post up, hopefully you will do the same smile.gif

I'll post as soon as I get access...really looking forward to it
post #2159 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Beta =/= Closed Beta

True. But closed/beta doesn't necessarily mean you can't speak about it, it just means the number involved is limited. During the sign up process and the email I received didn't include an NDA...yet. However I'm sure once the beta starts there will be instructions, rules, perhaps NDA's etc. I've done other beta's for video games, software and other products, and some encouraged posting public feedback. I guess I'll just have to see what's involved in this one when it starts.

Thanks!
post #2160 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitra View Post

Ycbcr is still the correct mode.
If necessary enable xvycc in combination with Ycbcr, you should avoid rgb.

Okay, thanks for the info.
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