Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 78

CE dimming hides screen defects by cutting the back light.

Very true, and I notice that also. During the fade from a scene, the screen auto-dims before the fade out is complete, since the screen is becoming darker due to the fade, which looks the tv is fading out faster than is intended. I don't see the positives either in auto-dimming. It wrecks the scene for no valid reason.

Oh, lol. Well I agree, I really wish I had some of what he was smoking. Must have been good. I'm looking forward to hearing what Nitra gets from his meter.

Whoever has the good smoke, please share with Nitra and others.

Not aimed at you. Not aimed at anyone on these forums

Yes, sounds like manipulation of the masses. :-)

CE Dimming Killed my dog.

and ate my homework!

Well since several people in here have been mentioning dynamic contrast, I decided to explore it a bit. Right now both standard and movie are set using the AVS disc, with colors as is out of the box. Then, while using the AVS disc, I enabled Dynamic contrast and switched back and forth between low and medium, to see how it affects the test patterns. The low setting has a mild effect, but does't ruin the test patterns. Medium has a more pronounced effect, but still manages to keep the test patterns looking correct without any additional changes needed. High definitely negatively affects the test patterns. So low or medium seem to work all right for the test patterns, without wrecking the settings. I did this with both standard and movie,

So right now it's on medium and I'll see how this looks for while. One thing I don't want is constant noticeable shifting in the image during scenes, as the camera changes views from one angle to the next. If I start noticing it taking me out of what I'm watching then I might back away from it.

I really wish I could get rid of this red tint in standard. It's not pleasant and my friend notices the red tint as well.

I'm wondering if the deep black in standard mode is not due to deeper blacks, rather just a trick caused by lack of light.

You may very well be right. Although I think the CE Dimming is to get hide the screen issues as was written earlier. If that is the case, it really shouldn't affect contrast if it's dimming the whole screen. I'm still curious how reviewers came up with different black levels in earlier reviews as well as Nitra's experience.

Luckily when I called they had 8 in stock but they were selling quickly. Not sure when they will have them in stock again. Just keep checking...Last time they ran out the website said "ships is 3-5 weeks"....3 days later they had 18 in stock and were shipping normally.

Just an update to the email I sent to the Samsung president's office,

I received an email back from a Wilbert Casiano who sent me a form letter directing me to level 1 support. I wrote them back telling them I was disappointed in their response. I haven't heard back yet. Anyone else?

Considering this has been going on for at least 3 years, it would be fantastic if they fixed it now. Stuff like this really just needs to get to the correct person (that might not even be in North America...).

I'm using warm1 because warm 2 looks way too red/yellow for my liking. Standard color looks just a bit too cool, maybe purplish.

Movie mode looks better in warm1 than standard mode in warm1 - the color just looks a bit more natural.

I hope these issues finally get some attention. I have not yet received any response from the email I sent yesterday.

You would think that TV manufactures would want their sets to look the absolute best that their technology can offer. With that said, why don't TV manufactures offer their picture modes set according to the following content;

1) Satellite feed (Directv or Dish) * Should be the same feed all over the world
2) Blu-Ray
3) THX standards
4) Dark room (Home theater room)
5) Bright room (most family rooms)

Doesn't this make sense? Am I missing the mark here?

Retoasting for visibility.


Current ISF Calibrated Settings for Standard Mode

Panel ID: TS01

Picture
Picture Mode Standard
Backlight 13*** <--- Combined with the ECO Sensor
Contrast 80
Brightness 45
Sharpness 16
Color 48
Tint G49/R51
Screen Adjustment Screen Fit

Advanced Settings
Dynamic contrast Off
Black Tone Off
Flesh tone 0
RGB mode off
Color Space Custom
Red: 43,0,0
Green: 0,53,0
Blue: 0,0,59
Yellow: 52,52,0
Cyan: 0,51,51
Magenta: 45,0,50
White Balance: on
R-Offset: 26
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 24
R-Gain: 5
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 4
10p white balance off
Gamma -1
Expert pattern off
xvYCC off
Motion lighting off
Black enhancer off

Picture Options
Color tone Warm 2
Digital Noise Filter Auto
MPEG Noise Filter Auto
HDMI Black Level Normal*** <--- See notes
Film mode Auto2*** <-- See notes
Auto Motion Plus Standard*** <--- See notes
LED motion plus Off*** <--- See notes

System/ECO Solution
ECO Sensor ON
Minimum backlight level 7

NOTES:


HDMI Black Level, a common mistake on this setting is that "Low" will give you a full black palette, this is opposite to the truth. Low = 16-255, Normal = 0-255, if you have a STB where you're noticing the blacks are more of a gray, try adjusting this setting, but as a general rule, you want all of your equipment in "Normal" mode and not clipping out any data.

Film Mode, this option will only become accessible when you're watching interlaced content, 1080i, 480i etc., so, if you're cable box is set to output at 1080, it's likely outputting in 1080i, if you see quite a bit of stuttering in the scene, try and make an adjustment here first.
Auto Motion Plus, Standard is a good rule of thumb, for some people and some sports, you may want to set this to "Clear", it should only be noticeable during panning scenes or fast motion.

LED Motion Plus, Classic CRT TV's had a strobe effect to them, it was generally not noticeable, but would help trick the eye into not seeing flaws in the picture, enabling this setting, will simulate the same effect, it strobes the backlights to attempt to provide the same effect. If you are new to an LED/LCD panel and the movement/motion on the screen irks you a little, try turning this on for a few weeks until you get use to the panel.

Break in, all of these sets have a minimum of 3-4 weeks before they can be considered broken in.

These settings are only provided as a reference.

Also, for reference regarding panel uniformity, please read the link below.
http://asia.cnet.com/is-tv-brightness-uniformity-a-problem-62213336.htm
Keep in mind given the above link, with the correct use of the Backlight settings when combined with the ECO sensor, the large majority of uniformity issues will go away.


Intentional or not, Micro-Dimming is NOT currently enabled in Movie Mode and by extension isn't enabled in Cal-Day or Cal-Night

Here's a thought,

I just received an invite from Samsung to go to the release party of the new UN75ES9000, at some store named Video Audio Center. It is now available for about 9gs. They differentiate between the 8000 and 9000 by saying the 9000 will have hardware local dimming(didn't Samsung remove hardware local dimming off this year's model?) as well as the software based microdimming.

Here is what the info page says:

****** The 75ES9000 provides 'best in class' picture quality because it adopts not only Micro Dimming Ultimate technology (software based) but also Precision Black local dimming (hardware based). Combined with Dual Core processing and a native 240Hz panel, the 75ES9000 achieves our highest 960 Clear Motion Rate.

• Our Best Picture ever: "Precision Black" hardware-based local dimming, Micro Dimming Ultimate software-based dimming, Advanced BLU scanning (2X more than 8000-series)
• Key design features: Micro-bezel Design (0.35”/8mm), Exclusive "Rose-Gold" color, 'Pop-Up' built-in camera (Hides when not in use)
• 1080p Full HD Resolution
• 960 Clear Motion Rate
• Included Accessories :Samsung Smart Touch Control, Standard Remote, 4 pair of Active 3D Glasses, IR Blaster Included
*****************************************************************************************************

Could Samsung be intentionally crippling the ES8000 because they have now introduced the 9000 and want to differentiate ce dimming vs. local hardware dimming? Since it seems that the controls are greyed out for these options, it is obviously a choice. There has to be some type of reasoning behind their actions. They certainly crippled the movie and calibration modes.

I'm going to check out the es9000 for fun. It's out of my budget at 9gs though.

Video Audio center has the es9000 page up in case any of you want to see it.

Flyguy Jake, agreed, but they don't cater just to the US crowd unfortunately.
Edited by HenDokuYaku - 8/3/12 at 8:41pm

I can't believe that they would intentionally cripple by firmware their already existing line to make their newest set look better. If the word ever leaked that that is what they did, I think they would never recover. Would you or anybody else ever forgive them after such a tactic? I know I wouldn't. If there has indeed been a change to movie mode, I don't believe they did it for that reason. Who knows why these sets are currently the way they are, but I doubt intentional sabotage was the reason. Besides, the customers of the ES8000 are not the same customers of the 9000. It's not like somebody will consider the 8000 but then say, well, the 9000 looks a bit better, and it's only $7,000 more, so hey, why not? Different class of customers altogether.

Great, so instead of some minor screen defects, it's impossible for the set to display dark images as they were intended due to the programming. How is that an improvement? I'll take minor light bleed or clouding any day over auto-dimming. And I have very little problem with the "screen defects" in movie mode - auto dimming is a much bigger problem for me.

I bought the newly-remastered blu-ray of Total Recall the other day. A sticker on the front says it's a newly-created director-approved remaster. From what I've read, it looks pretty spectacular. So according to the director, the blu-ray now contains the transfer of the film the way he intends it to be seen - color, contrast, brightness, sharpness, composition. So what's the point of this director-approved transfer if the tv is just going to start messing with the lighting and contrast from scene to scene? When there's a dark scene, the tv will make the decision to darken it even more than it is on the disc, just to hide "screen defects" out of Samsung's paranoia. But the scene is already adjusted to look how it should, supervised by Verhoeven. I don't need Samsung to interfere.

If the tv is making adjustments to make the most out of the screen technology, so it can deliver the best and most faithful image possible with the tech, then fine. That's what I thought micro-dimming was supposed to do. But when the tv alters the image in a negative way, like auto-darkening the scene, just to "hide defects", then that's a problem. The tv shouldn't be crippling the image during certain scenes or shots to hide screen issues, because the damage to the image is often worse then the actual screen defects, if any. My screen looks pretty darn nice. I don't need the scene to darken to enjoy the image.

You may be right but it wouldn't be the first time an electronics manufacturer crippled their hardware purposefully. They do have to justify a price difference and product upgrades. In fact, Apple does this all the time. Sometimes they admit it, sometimes they get busted, sometimes it's just a conspiracy theory. I'm sure this is Samsung would never get caught doing.

Absolutely! 100%.

So they punish their customers after spending lots on their products, just to try and convince others to buy their products? Not that I would put it past a company to do that, but it's hard for me to believe that is what's happening here. If word starts getting out that Samsung tvs have picture issues, I don't see how that will help them sell more expensive sets. So why cripple their own products like that? Wouldn't they want their products to make their customers happy so word could spread that they make a great product?

Plus, the fact the we're talking about Samsung means it's more likely they just don't know what they're doing half the time. Their own customer support team doesn't know Jack about their own products, even higher tiers of reps.

65ES8000

Well. I think I have a keeper this time. The first pic of the black screen is "out the box" movie mode with the backlight down to 12. Sorry it's a little fuzzy, it was taken with an iPhone and the reddish spot is from a dim light coming from the kitchen. As you can see, the clouding is minimal even on movie mode. Flashlighting is also minimal with a little light coming through on the top left corner. There is a little banding on light scenes such as the grey screen in pic 2. This should only be slightly noticeable during panning in very light scenes. Pics 3 and 4 have Avatar playing in them. I have the tv in standard mode with Nitra's settings and also tweaked a little to my liking. Also, I am a fan of the Harry Potter movies and the CE dimming on dark scenes in those movies are out of control. So, I tried enabling game mode to experiment. This seems to help the problem, but i dont see it as a permanent fix. It makes it so CE dimming is almost nonexistent on this set. It appears microdimming is still there because I still have deep blacks and vibrant colors and contrast. Though, some other processing is switched off in game mode. Overall I am very pleased with the quality of the picture on this tv. I don't use the voice or motion control because to me they are friggin' useless. I dig the smart hub, though I never find time to use the apps on it. The remotes that come with it suck. Get a Harmony One and say good bye to crappy remotes. All in all, if you're in the market for a TV I highly recommend this one.

This is for all the new comers on the forum thinking about buying this tv. Don't let all the negatives detract you getting the ES8000. People mostly come here to voice problems, but a large majority have no problems at all, which is why they don't post as much.