or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 209

post #6241 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

hello eagle
Concerning the required backlight level, we also have to consider the peak white level. We can only compare the backlight level between Standard and Movie, if peak white level is the same. And the peak white level depends on the Contrast setting.
I use for Standard a contrast setting of 80, which is the Nitra setting. Originally I used a lower setting to prevent clipping, but clipping is still acceptable at 80 on my set.
For Movie mode, I use a Contrast setting of 100. Clipping is just visible, but still lower than Standard.
With those settings, both with a backlight setting of 6, I get following readings:
Peak white: Standard 153cd/m2 and Movie 146cd/m2 (small difference)
Black level: both Standard and Movie same level 0.08cd/m2
So my conclusion is that black level for Standard and Movie are aequivalent for the same peak white and clipping level.
See following measurement results. Also, white balance for Standard and Movie is more or less the same.
Standard-Movie.xls 100k .xls file

Movie is still a little blue by default, but still looks better than Standard by default. Standard is definitely more red on my set. The only way to improve it is lowering the contrast to around 82 as you have done, but this makes white more dull looking.

Once again, I just see no benefit of even trying to calibrate Standard when Movie even on default is better. Unless you just like a scorching picture. In that case, color accuracy really doesn't apply, so type of user would probably be better off leaving his contrast at 95-100 on Standard and then dealing with the overly red picture.
post #6242 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaylanGivens1 View Post

That is what I was talking about being mentioned a long time ago. Raising the brightness keeps the screen from shutting off. This is what is happening with auto-dimming in Standard. When it senses a dark enough black on the screen it drops the backlight to 0. If it senses all black, it shuts off. Raising the brightness defeats the detection. When you try the method mentioned, put in something like the opening to Star Wars and watch the change with each click of the backlight. There is no real change when you drop from 45, to 44, 43, 42, etc. But there is a big change going from 45, to 46, 47, 48 etc.
I personally would love to have auto-dimming turned on in Movie Mode. As TURBOMAN123 measured, there really isn't a difference in black level in Standard and Movie. During a really dark scene, there is because of auto-dimming. I don't know if this has always been the case or if they corrected it with the updates, but the point is, Micro-Dimming is not giving better black levels so there is simply no real reason to use Standard in my eyes.

I may well have this whole thing wrong but what was previously discussed in the thread was ONLY about avoiding the screen shut off by increasing brightness (I believe above 46).

Isn't this new link bringing a method of damping/reducing auto-dimming (not screen shut off) by increasing brightness and not overdoing whites or killing blacks by compensating the increased brightness with reduced RGB settings? Definitely above my understanding how all this works together, but that is my interpretation.

If I have it right, that is certainly new to this thread.
post #6243 of 16126
My Amazon Instant Video seems to have not installed correctly - I briefly was able to launch the app, and then had to quickly exit. Now when I launch, I get a background screen but no options. I tried "reinstall" and it seems to think it has done so successfully. When I access AIV through the Samsung Apps choice and scroll to AIV, I am given the option of "Run" (same background only) and "Share" but the "Uninstall" option is greyed out, so I can't figure out how to uninstall and reinstall or otherwise bring this back up. Any ideas (other then reaching out to Amazon app developer)? Thanks.

EDIT: Just started working again. In the immortal words of Emily Litella: Neveremind
post #6244 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Excuse me while I lift my jaw off the floor!
I gave this a try, and YES it does work!!
I cannot say that the auto-dimming is completely disabled, but it's virtually non-existent now. Not only that, but micro-dimming seems to still be functioning since the blacks seem noticeably deeper and the clouding is almost unnoticeable now instead of how it is in movie mode.
I'll play around a bit more with my own tweaks for color, and it seems you can still do that in white balance, so for instance, previously my white balance was:
R-G-B offset : 20-25-25
R-G-B gain : 10-25-25
to compensate for the red push my ES7500 has. So I started with the tweaked settings, and then adjusted it by taking away 5 points from the R-offset and 15 points from the R-gain:
R-G-B offset : 7-12-12
R-G-B gain : 10-25-25
And the auto-dimming is still virtually absent. You can clearly see the difference because if you pause a film with a black screen and a single name or credit at the end of a film, and then switch over to dynamic or natural, you can instantly see it auto-dimming and there is a major reduction in brightness. You can also notice the menu brightness is much much better, not affected by auto-dimming like before the tweak.
You should also be able to do this in the other modes as well like natural if you tend to use that mode (not recommended but sometimes you might find a use for it).
The best thing about this fix for those like myself and garnoch who use movie mode to avoid the auto-dimming: it's a buy 1 get1 free fix - you virtually eliminate the auto-dimming, while at the same time greatly reduce the clouding because micro-dimming seems to still be active! This is the best news yet about this set - I could actually be happy using standard mode now and not be annoyed by the dimming, while hiding the clouding.
Such an easy fix - why couldn't Samsung have given us this tip? Great find!

Eagle, Can you give the short version of the adjustment so it is here within this thread, and doesn't have to be accessed elsewhere and translated? We'll call it the reducing CE dimming tutorial or something.
post #6245 of 16126
Goodbye

To all the great users of this forum - - thanks for all your feedback. Got an infraction warning from AVS today on plugging a retail site for 3D content. That wasn't the intent - - I do not get a dime for the website I referenced but that's not the way AVS Forum views it. Quite frankly - - any thread is a "retail plug" for a manufacturer. And how about the unabashed "AVS" support for Kevin Miller as a calibration expert? Regardless of whether he does a great job or not - - that's not the point. It constitutes a flat out a "retail plug" for his services.

The censorship on this site and the indiscretion of AVS Forum Management has gotten prohibitive and not worth the effort anymore.

I'll be reading and keeping up but will not longer post anything to any AVS Forum thread.

Best - Ricoflashback
post #6246 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaylanGivens1 View Post

That is what I was talking about being mentioned a long time ago. Raising the brightness keeps the screen from shutting off. This is what is happening with auto-dimming in Standard. When it senses a dark enough black on the screen it drops the backlight to 0. If it senses all black, it shuts off. Raising the brightness defeats the detection. When you try the method mentioned, put in something like the opening to Star Wars and watch the change with each click of the backlight. There is no real change when you drop from 45, to 44, 43, 42, etc. But there is a big change going from 45, to 46, 47, 48 etc.
I personally would love to have auto-dimming turned on in Movie Mode. As TURBOMAN123 measured, there really isn't a difference in black level in Standard and Movie. During a really dark scene, there is because of auto-dimming. I don't know if this has always been the case or if they corrected it with the updates, but the point is, Micro-Dimming is not giving better black levels so there is simply no real reason to use Standard in my eyes.

I had a feeling that's what you meant. As for the blacks being the same in Movie as in Standard - minus the CE Dimming - I'm not sure I agree, but I might actually. I go back and forth with this. Regardless, I'm in Movie mode for the same reason as you I think. I tried Standard for TV last night and after an hour, turned it back to Movie. Even though I feel I have colors as close I can get it, I just feel Movie looks better overall. Some people here don't, but that's cool too. We all see different or have different likes and dislikes.

Edit:
Let not forget that Nitra confirmed with Samsung that Movie does not have Micro Dimming - although perhaps all it really is is CE Dimming?
Edited by Garnoch - 10/26/12 at 1:25pm
post #6247 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

Eagle, Can you give the short version of the adjustment so it is here within this thread, and doesn't have to be accessed elsewhere and translated? We'll call it the reducing CE dimming tutorial or something.

Op's Guy - Eagle - I'll just post it hear and give credit to PRSUT from...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435194/tweak-disabling-autodimming-for-samsung-eseries-smart-tv-mine-is-es6710

Hello all,

lot of us are out of color from AutoDimming ( CE Dimming) feature implemented in 2012 ES series of Samsung Smart TV. On german hififorum I found interesting information, how CE dimming works...

author is Dideé : (google translate)
"The automatic dimming takes effect if the average brightness value of the current image (or scene) is smaller than a certain limit. By raising the brightness (at the very beginning of the processing chain is) will ensure that this limit is never reached. And the very end of the processing chain standing white balance makes the raised brightness then reverses. So this is a high stability a "work-around".

I tried it and I can can confirm IT WORKS:

How is it in real life :

My former settings (STANDARD mode)

backlight : 11
contrast : 74
brightness : 45
sharpness:0
color:34
...
...
White balance (advanced settings)
R-G-B offset : 25-25-25
R-G-B gain : 25-25-25

Using test patterns from calibration forum, namely level blacks 0 to 4%, and two day of comparing and testing with real videos etc, I have found, switching CE Dimming off starts at brightness 50, and each +/- 1 step makes big difference.
Raised level of black (brightness) can be compensated by R-G-B offset.

below are my new settings, CE Dimming is almost switched off - not noticeable. Clouding is not visible (night test WO ambient light, black remains deep black), picture color tone seems to be OK :

backlight : 11
contrast : 73
brightness : 53
sharpness:0
color:34

White balance (advanced settings)
R-G-B offset : 12-12-12
R-G-B gain : 25-25-25

gamma:0

Try it, it should work on other models from ES6xxx series, I believe on whole ES series.
Waiting for your comments, and, sorry for my english - not my natural language
post #6248 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Goodbye
To all the great users of this forum - - thanks for all your feedback. Got an infraction warning from AVS today on plugging a retail site for 3D content. That wasn't the intent - - I do not get a dime for the website I referenced but that's not the way AVS Forum views it. Quite frankly - - any thread is a "retail plug" for a manufacturer. And how about the unabashed "AVS" support for Kevin Miller as a calibration expert? Regardless of whether he does a great job or not - - that's not the point. It constitutes a flat out a "retail plug" for his services.
The censorship on this site and the indiscretion of AVS Forum Management has gotten prohibitive and not worth the effort anymore.
I'll be reading and keeping up but will not longer post anything to any AVS Forum thread.
Best - Ricoflashback

I asked for that freaking review. Are you kidding? Obviously not. Rico, you will be missed, brother. Maybe along with not telling jokes or talking about my love of Jack Daniels, Nitra shouldn't post his thoughts on the Harmony Touch. Should we no longer give people our opinion on buying this TV or any other? Aren't we plugging or not plugging Samsung when we are on this thread? Don't we talk about our opinions on what the best BD is to buy? I'm confused. PM me if you ever feel the need and good luck.
post #6249 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

I've been AWOL from this thread for 4 weeks and I have 1628 unread posts. Dear Lord people, what are you talking about?!?!? smile.gif I guess I need to visit this thread a lot more.
A couple questions I have about PQ that I would appreciate some insight to:
1. I have noticed that I can see a blue outline when (for example) a white shirt is up against a black jacket, and the edge where they meet at the white area is blue. How can I fix that?
2. Is there a way to cure the swimming black effect? I was sitting at my wife's couch last night while watching CSI and when they were in an interrogation room from her angle, blacks were moving all around. From my seat which is almost straight ahead I can see it, but not to the extent I was seeing it last night.

I can't really answer this for you but I'll give you a bump.
post #6250 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Goodbye
To all the great users of this forum - - thanks for all your feedback. Got an infraction warning from AVS today on plugging a retail site for 3D content. That wasn't the intent - - I do not get a dime for the website I referenced but that's not the way AVS Forum views it. Quite frankly - - any thread is a "retail plug" for a manufacturer. And how about the unabashed "AVS" support for Kevin Miller as a calibration expert? Regardless of whether he does a great job or not - - that's not the point. It constitutes a flat out a "retail plug" for his services.
The censorship on this site and the indiscretion of AVS Forum Management has gotten prohibitive and not worth the effort anymore.
I'll be reading and keeping up but will not longer post anything to any AVS Forum thread.
Best - Ricoflashback

Very sad. One of the most genuine and friendliest of posters.
post #6251 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

I asked for that freaking review. Are you kidding? Obviously not. Rico, you will be missed, brother. Maybe along with not telling jokes or talking about my love of Jack Daniels, Nitra shouldn't post his thoughts on the Harmony Touch. Should we no longer give people our opinion on buying this TV or any other? Aren't we plugging or not plugging Samsung when we are on this thread? Don't we talk about our opinions on what the best BD is to buy? I'm confused. PM me if you ever feel the need and good luck.

Having been around here for awhile this is, unfortunately, not that uncommon. Take some time off Rico but do come back. Positive input is always welcomed here.
post #6252 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Op's Guy - Eagle - I'll just post it hear and give credit to PRSUT from...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435194/tweak-disabling-autodimming-for-samsung-eseries-smart-tv-mine-is-es6710
Hello all,
lot of us are out of color from AutoDimming ( CE Dimming) feature implemented in 2012 ES series of Samsung Smart TV. On german hififorum I found interesting information, how CE dimming works...
author is Dideé : (google translate)
"The automatic dimming takes effect if the average brightness value of the current image (or scene) is smaller than a certain limit. By raising the brightness (at the very beginning of the processing chain is) will ensure that this limit is never reached. And the very end of the processing chain standing white balance makes the raised brightness then reverses. So this is a high stability a "work-around".
I tried it and I can can confirm IT WORKS:
How is it in real life :
My former settings (STANDARD mode)
backlight : 11
contrast : 74
brightness : 45
sharpness:0
color:34
...
...
White balance (advanced settings)
R-G-B offset : 25-25-25
R-G-B gain : 25-25-25
Using test patterns from calibration forum, namely level blacks 0 to 4%, and two day of comparing and testing with real videos etc, I have found, switching CE Dimming off starts at brightness 50, and each +/- 1 step makes big difference.
Raised level of black (brightness) can be compensated by R-G-B offset.
below are my new settings, CE Dimming is almost switched off - not noticeable. Clouding is not visible (night test WO ambient light, black remains deep black), picture color tone seems to be OK :
backlight : 11
contrast : 73
brightness : 53
sharpness:0
color:34
White balance (advanced settings)
R-G-B offset : 12-12-12
R-G-B gain : 25-25-25
gamma:0
Try it, it should work on other models from ES6xxx series, I believe on whole ES series.
Waiting for your comments, and, sorry for my english - not my natural language



Are these settings for Standard only? Have you tried these settings? What do you think of them
post #6253 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

I've been AWOL from this thread for 4 weeks and I have 1628 unread posts. Dear Lord people, what are you talking about?!?!? smile.gif

There was a lot of discussion around Samsung's worldwide conspiracy to rape the little guy (especially retirees and veterans), secretly change individual TV settings, and for good measure to treat its own workers like scum of the earth. Also double-secret efforts among those with Connections to get the Government and the Media to blow the Lid on the Conspiracy.
Quote:
A couple questions I have about PQ that I would appreciate some insight to:
1. I have noticed that I can see a blue outline when (for example) a white shirt is up against a black jacket, and the edge where they meet at the white area is blue. How can I fix that?
2. Is there a way to cure the swimming black effect? I was sitting at my wife's couch last night while watching CSI and when they were in an interrogation room from her angle, blacks were moving all around. From my seat which is almost straight ahead I can see it, but not to the extent I was seeing it last night.

Haven't seen this in mine, but I'll keep an eye out for it. No idea what if any settings might play a role there.
post #6254 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt99 View Post

There was a lot of discussion around Samsung's worldwide conspiracy to rape the little guy (especially retirees and veterans), secretly change individual TV settings, and for good measure to treat its own workers like scum of the earth. Also double-secret efforts among those with Connections to get the Government and the Media to blow the Lid on the Conspiracy.

Haven't seen this in mine, but I'll keep an eye out for it. No idea what if any settings might play a role there.

Kudos Catt. Well said
post #6255 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

hello eagle
Concerning the required backlight level, we also have to consider the peak white level. We can only compare the backlight level between Standard and Movie, if peak white level is the same. And the peak white level depends on the Contrast setting.
I use for Standard a contrast setting of 80, which is the Nitra setting. Originally I used a lower setting to prevent clipping, but clipping is still acceptable at 80 on my set.
For Movie mode, I use a Contrast setting of 100. Clipping is just visible, but still lower than Standard.
With those settings, both with a backlight setting of 6, I get following readings:
Peak white: Standard 153cd/m2 and Movie 146cd/m2 (small difference)
Black level: both Standard and Movie same level 0.08cd/m2
So my conclusion is that black level for Standard and Movie are aequivalent for the same peak white and clipping level.
See following measurement results. Also, white balance for Standard and Movie is more or less the same.
Standard-Movie.xls 100k .xls file

Very interesting. Some observations I made (keeping in mind that my set is not calibrated):

- Like you, my contrast setting in lower in standard than it is for movie mode, using the AVS disc black clipping, APL clipping, and white clipping patterns. For standard, the contrast is set to 84, and for movie mode it is on 94.

- Using the white clipping pattern, it's obvious that there is quite a difference in the appearance of how white looks. IN both movie and standard I have color temp on standard, yet there is a very noticeable difference in the white clipping pattern. In standard, the white is very bright, and seems much more "white" than in movie mode, where the white appears almost "off-white" - if that's the right way to describe it. Its still white, but it just doesn't look so white when you switch to standard and see the pattern in standard mode.

I don't know what all this means - just some things I noticed yesterday.
post #6256 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

I've been AWOL from this thread for 4 weeks and I have 1628 unread posts. Dear Lord people, what are you talking about?!?!? smile.gif I guess I need to visit this thread a lot more.
A couple questions I have about PQ that I would appreciate some insight to:
1. I have noticed that I can see a blue outline when (for example) a white shirt is up against a black jacket, and the edge where they meet at the white area is blue. How can I fix that?
2. Is there a way to cure the swimming black effect? I was sitting at my wife's couch last night while watching CSI and when they were in an interrogation room from her angle, blacks were moving all around. From my seat which is almost straight ahead I can see it, but not to the extent I was seeing it last night.
hello
1. Depends. If your quality source is bad, then it could come from the source, not the flat panel. However, with bluray it should not happen. If it happens with bluray, check sharpness setting. Aim for a setting 15 - 20.
2. ..." wife's couch ... when they were in an interregation room". ??? Your wife was in an interrogation room?? Interrogated for what? By whom? Fun aside, the Samsung panel is bad for off angle. Recommendation: keep your couch and leave your wife in the interrogation room.
post #6257 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaylanGivens1 View Post

Movie is still a little blue by default, but still looks better than Standard by default. Standard is definitely more red on my set. The only way to improve it is lowering the contrast to around 82 as you have done, but this makes white more dull looking.
Once again, I just see no benefit of even trying to calibrate Standard when Movie even on default is better. Unless you just like a scorching picture. In that case, color accuracy really doesn't apply, so type of user would probably be better off leaving his contrast at 95-100 on Standard and then dealing with the overly red picture.

I in no way like a scorching picture, yet I find Standard looking very good now that there is a workaround to the auto-dimming. By no means is Standard scorching. Dynamic, yes. Natural, yes. Standard - no, not scorching.

Dropping the R-gain and R-offset in white balance further, once you put in the workaround, like the settings I mentioned in the last page, helps get rid of that red tone. Like I said, these sets unfortunately lean far too red. It's really unfortunate. These tvs really need to be calibrated to deliver proper color. But playing with the white balance can certainly help a lot.
post #6258 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtm73 View Post

I may well have this whole thing wrong but what was previously discussed in the thread was ONLY about avoiding the screen shut off by increasing brightness (I believe above 46).
Isn't this new link bringing a method of damping/reducing auto-dimming (not screen shut off) by increasing brightness and not overdoing whites or killing blacks by compensating the increased brightness with reduced RGB settings? Definitely above my understanding how all this works together, but that is my interpretation.
If I have it right, that is certainly new to this thread.

You are correct. Previously all discussions was related to setting the brightness at a high enough threshold so that the screen would not turn off when displaying a totally black image. For most of us 46 was the threshold, but that could go higher if you enabled black enhancements.

This had nothing to do with changing settings in the white balance to defeat auto-dimming/CE-Dimming. This is the first time I've heard this workaround mentioned. Now, it does seem like it works off the same premise - to raise the brightness high enough so that the auto-dimming threshold is never reached, and then compensating for the increase in brightness by dropping the settings in the white balance. But I've never heard of it actually being applied like this.

This workaround definitely works. I tested a Start trek: the Next Generation episode out with the new settings, and the opening intro is now extremely stable. You can even bring up the menu and the menu remains at full brightness, regardless of when the ship and planets and suns whooses by, regardless of the credits appearing and disappearing, and regardless of if it is just a space shot with only stars. The whole time the menu remains bright, and when watching it without the menu, not once does the image auto-dim. Yet the blacks still remain as deep as before the workaround. That same intro without the workaround had the brightness fluctuating wildly throughout the entire opening sequence, between a dozen or two instances of CE-dimming thanks to all the individual names coming up and then disappearing, and all the whooses of the Enterprise and planets and suns zipping by.

One funny thing though - while I was playing my black clipping AVS clip in standard mode with the workaround applied, something very odd was happening - not only were the bars flashing on and off, the entire screen was flashing - auto dimming was going nuts due to the bars flashing! My guess is that the auto-dimming threshold is now so low that any type of regular viewing, no matter how dark the scene is, will no longer trigger the auto-dimming, but for some reason the AVS black-clipping test clip does cause the tv to hit that threshold as the bars disappear. So the screen flips out when using the black clipping pattern. It never did that before I applied the workaround, and it doesn't do it in movie mode. For normal viewing though, this seems like a great way to get around that awful CE-Dimming.
post #6259 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Op's Guy View Post

Eagle, Can you give the short version of the adjustment so it is here within this thread, and doesn't have to be accessed elsewhere and translated? We'll call it the reducing CE dimming tutorial or something.

Sure thing!

CE Dimming seems to work by auto-dimming the screen once a certain threshold is reached. It is enabled in all modes except movie/CAL modes, and cannot be disabled. Once the screen displays dark enough content, the CE-Dimming kicks in and auto-dims the screen further, presumably to help hide screen uniformity issues like clouding and flashlighting, and possibly give the illusion of deeper blacks. However, many people find this quite annoying, as this can be very jarring as the screen jumps up and down in brightness based on the brightness of the image. When the image is already dark (like a dark cave with little light, a night scene in the woods, or a space scene in a science-fiction film with only the stars to light the screen, for example), the screen suddenly dims even more, making an already dark scene even more difficult to see. Stars become so dim in space shots as to be difficult to see, and opening/closing titles are much dimmer than intended. This can also be observed easily by watching any dark scene with the Samsung menu up - you can easily see the menu auto-dim with the rest of the picture, and brighten up as the image gets brighter.

I don't take any credit for this, as the original post can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435194/tweak-disabling-autodimming-for-samsung-eseries-smart-tv-mine-is-es6710

To disable CE-Dimming/Auto Dimming on the 2012 ESxxxx series sets:

Auto dimming works by dimming the screen when a certain low brightness level is reached. By raising the brightness enough, that can assure that the tv never reaches that low brightness level. Of course that means raising the tv brighter than you should, resulting in an overly-bright and washed-out image. You can compensate for that however by making a simple adjustment in the white balance menu. Basically, you're cranking up the brightness a bit at the beginning of the processing chain, where CE-Dimming is involved, and then compensating for the brightness later in the processing chain in the white balance, once CE-Dimming has looked at the image and decided not to auto-dim due to the extra brightness. It's just a simple trick, but it works really well.



- turn your brightness up to 53

- In your white balance menu, set the following:

R-Offset - 12
G-Offset - 12
B-Offset - 12

R-Gain - 25 (default)
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)

Keep gamma on 0




That's it! CE-Dimming is now reduced to the point where it should not bother you. There is only the slightest hint of CE-Dimming remaining. And Micro-Dimming still appears to be working. This can be applied to Standard, Natural, and Vivid modes. CE-Dimming does not affect Movie/CAL modes like the other modes.


I have tried to tweak it a bit more hoping to completely eliminate the dimming altogether by dropping the Offsets another 4 points each, and adjusting the brightness accordingly using the AVS calibration disc. This results in the CE-Dimming appearing to be virtually eliminated. Just make sure all Offsets are dropped equally to avoid any unwanted color changes. Here is my workaround after dropping the Offsets down another 4 points each and using the AVS disc to adjust the brightness and contrast:

Brightness - 61

R-Offset - 8
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8

R-Gain - 25 (default)
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)

You may find you don't even need to drop it down further, and just keep the Offsets on 12 and brightness on 53.

Another nice benefit to doing this is it disables the screen turning off when the image displayed is all black.. The screen will still turn off however when switching sources. You can also still apply color adjustments to the white balance settings once you put in the workaround. For instance, I find my set has too much of a red push, so to compensate I reduce the R-Offset and R-Gain settings:

Brightness - 61

R-Offset - 3
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8

R-Gain - 10
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)

Until Samsung gives us the ability to disable CE-Dimming at our will (if ever), this should work nicely to accomplish the same thing without having any apparent negative effects.
Edited by eagle_2 - 10/27/12 at 12:03am
post #6260 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Goodbye
To all the great users of this forum - - thanks for all your feedback. Got an infraction warning from AVS today on plugging a retail site for 3D content. That wasn't the intent - - I do not get a dime for the website I referenced but that's not the way AVS Forum views it. Quite frankly - - any thread is a "retail plug" for a manufacturer. And how about the unabashed "AVS" support for Kevin Miller as a calibration expert? Regardless of whether he does a great job or not - - that's not the point. It constitutes a flat out a "retail plug" for his services.
The censorship on this site and the indiscretion of AVS Forum Management has gotten prohibitive and not worth the effort anymore.
I'll be reading and keeping up but will not longer post anything to any AVS Forum thread.
Best - Ricoflashback

Very sorry to hear that. You will be missed. Personally I don't consider that a plug at all. Another user asked for an opinion on that service. So if we recommend to others here that this is a great tv, is that a plug?
post #6261 of 16126
After testing some more sources I can say there's definitely a noticeable difference between

Brightness - 53

R-Offset - 12
G-Offset - 12
B-Offset - 12


and my tweaked settings of


Brightness - 60/61

R-Offset - 8
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8


The additional brightness setting of 60/61 has virtually eliminated the auto-dimming. With a setting of 53 it was greatly reduced but watching the Star Trek intro it was still mildly noticeable, and having the menu up made it apparent in its brightness changes. Bumping the brightness to around 60 and then dropping the Offsets down a few extra points to compensate made all the difference - the image is very stable with only the very slightest hint of auto-dimming - it's reduced to the point that for any type of viewing it can be considered disabled at this point. I now feel that standard is now watchable with this workaround.

Gamma remains at 0 to keep the brightness at 60. If I bump the gamma to +1 I have to drop the brightness down a few notches, enough to introduce a bit more auto-dimming. And in standard there seems to be no reason to bump the gamma up any higher than 0.

Also, there's no apparent difference between the 2 brightness settings, due to the Offset compensation.
Edited by eagle_2 - 10/27/12 at 6:30am
post #6262 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Sure thing!
CE Dimming seems to work by auto-dimming the screen once a certain threshold is reached. It is enabled in all modes except movie/CAL modes, and cannot be disabled. Once the screen displays dark enough content, the CE-Dimming kicks in and auto-dims the screen further, presumably to help hide screen uniformity issues like clouding and flashlighting, and possibly give the illusion of deeper blacks. However, many people find this quite annoying, as this can be very jarring as the screen jumps up and down in brightness based on the brightness of the image. When the image is already dark (like a dark cave with little light, a night scene in the woods, or a space scene in a science-fiction film with only the stars to light the screen, for example), the screen suddenly dims even more, making an already dark scene even more difficult to see. Stars become so dim in space shots as to be difficult to see, and opening/closing titles are much dimmer than intended. This can also be observed easily by watching any dark scene with the Samsung menu up - you can easily see the menu auto-dim with the rest of the picture, and brighten up as the image gets brighter.
I don't take any credit for this, as the original post can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435194/tweak-disabling-autodimming-for-samsung-eseries-smart-tv-mine-is-es6710
To disable CE-Dimming/Auto Dimming on the 2012 ESxxxx series sets:
Auto dimming works by dimming the screen when a certain low brightness level is reached. By raising the brightness enough, that can assure that the tv never reaches that low brightness level. Of course that means raising the tv brighter than you should, resulting in an overly-bright and washed-out image. You can compensate for that however by making a simple adjustment in the white balance menu. Basically, you're cranking up the brightness a bit at the beginning of the processing chain, where CE-Dimming is involved, and then compensating for the brightness later in the processing chain in the white balance, once CE-Dimming has looked at the image and decided not to auto-dim due to the extra brightness. It's just a simple trick, but it works really well.
- turn your brightness up to 53
- In your white balance menu, set the following:
R-Offset - 12
G-Offset - 12
B-Offset - 12
R-Gain - 25 (default)
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
Keep gamma on 0

That's it! CE-Dimming is now reduced to the point where it should not bother you. There is only the slightest hint of CE-Dimming remaining. And Micro-Dimming still appears to be working. This can be applied to Standard, Natural, and Vivid modes. CE-Dimming does not affect Movie/CAL modes like the other modes.
I have tried to tweak it a bit more hoping to completely eliminate the dimming altogether by dropping the Offsets another 4 points each, and adjusting the brightness accordingly using the AVS calibration disc. This results in the CE-Dimming appearing to be virtually eliminated. Just make sure all Offsets are dropped equally to avoid any unwanted color changes. Here is my workaround after dropping the Offsets down another 4 points each and using the AVS disc to adjust the brightness and contrast:
Brightness - 61
R-Offset - 8
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8
R-Gain - 25 (default)
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
You may find you don't even need to drop it down further, and just keep the Offsets on 12 and brightness on 53.
Another nice benefit to doing this is it disables the screen turning off when the image displayed is all black.. The screen will still turn off however when switching sources. You can also still apply color adjustments to the white balance settings once you put in the workaround. For instance, I find my set has too much of a red push, so to compensate I reduce the R-Offset and R-Gain settings:
Brightness - 61
R-Offset - 3
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8
R-Gain - 10
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
Until Samsung gives us the ability to disable CE-Dimming at our will (if ever), this should work nicely to accomplish the same thing without having any apparent negative effects.


Excellent Eagle.

Maybe like Garnoch has done with his settings by tagging them to his profile, you would be willing to do the same with this. You have clearly disclaimed ownership, but have made it very simple in understanding.

Everyone that now comes here asking about CE dimming could be directed straight away to clear and precise answer.
post #6263 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Goodbye
To all the great users of this forum - - thanks for all your feedback. Got an infraction warning from AVS today on plugging a retail site for 3D content. That wasn't the intent - - I do not get a dime for the website I referenced but that's not the way AVS Forum views it. Quite frankly - - any thread is a "retail plug" for a manufacturer. And how about the unabashed "AVS" support for Kevin Miller as a calibration expert? Regardless of whether he does a great job or not - - that's not the point. It constitutes a flat out a "retail plug" for his services.
The censorship on this site and the indiscretion of AVS Forum Management has gotten prohibitive and not worth the effort anymore.
I'll be reading and keeping up but will not longer post anything to any AVS Forum thread.
Best - Ricoflashback

He just calibrated my set the other day. smile.gif
post #6264 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Sure thing!
CE Dimming seems to work by auto-dimming the screen once a certain threshold is reached. It is enabled in all modes except movie/CAL modes, and cannot be disabled. Once the screen displays dark enough content, the CE-Dimming kicks in and auto-dims the screen further, presumably to help hide screen uniformity issues like clouding and flashlighting, and possibly give the illusion of deeper blacks. However, many people find this quite annoying, as this can be very jarring as the screen jumps up and down in brightness based on the brightness of the image. When the image is already dark (like a dark cave with little light, a night scene in the woods, or a space scene in a science-fiction film with only the stars to light the screen, for example), the screen suddenly dims even more, making an already dark scene even more difficult to see. Stars become so dim in space shots as to be difficult to see, and opening/closing titles are much dimmer than intended. This can also be observed easily by watching any dark scene with the Samsung menu up - you can easily see the menu auto-dim with the rest of the picture, and brighten up as the image gets brighter.
I don't take any credit for this, as the original post can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435194/tweak-disabling-autodimming-for-samsung-eseries-smart-tv-mine-is-es6710
To disable CE-Dimming/Auto Dimming on the 2012 ESxxxx series sets:
Auto dimming works by dimming the screen when a certain low brightness level is reached. By raising the brightness enough, that can assure that the tv never reaches that low brightness level. Of course that means raising the tv brighter than you should, resulting in an overly-bright and washed-out image. You can compensate for that however by making a simple adjustment in the white balance menu. Basically, you're cranking up the brightness a bit at the beginning of the processing chain, where CE-Dimming is involved, and then compensating for the brightness later in the processing chain in the white balance, once CE-Dimming has looked at the image and decided not to auto-dim due to the extra brightness. It's just a simple trick, but it works really well.
- turn your brightness up to 53
- In your white balance menu, set the following:
R-Offset - 12
G-Offset - 12
B-Offset - 12
R-Gain - 25 (default)
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
Keep gamma on 0

That's it! CE-Dimming is now reduced to the point where it should not bother you. There is only the slightest hint of CE-Dimming remaining. And Micro-Dimming still appears to be working. This can be applied to Standard, Natural, and Vivid modes. CE-Dimming does not affect Movie/CAL modes like the other modes.
I have tried to tweak it a bit more hoping to completely eliminate the dimming altogether by dropping the Offsets another 4 points each, and adjusting the brightness accordingly using the AVS calibration disc. This results in the CE-Dimming appearing to be virtually eliminated. Just make sure all Offsets are dropped equally to avoid any unwanted color changes. Here is my workaround after dropping the Offsets down another 4 points each and using the AVS disc to adjust the brightness and contrast:
Brightness - 61
R-Offset - 8
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8
R-Gain - 25 (default)
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
You may find you don't even need to drop it down further, and just keep the Offsets on 12 and brightness on 53.
Another nice benefit to doing this is it disables the screen turning off when the image displayed is all black.. The screen will still turn off however when switching sources. You can also still apply color adjustments to the white balance settings once you put in the workaround. For instance, I find my set has too much of a red push, so to compensate I reduce the R-Offset and R-Gain settings:
Brightness - 61
R-Offset - 3
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8
R-Gain - 10
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
Until Samsung gives us the ability to disable CE-Dimming at our will (if ever), this should work nicely to accomplish the same thing without having any apparent negative effects.

Very detailed and interesting post Eagle. Thanks for this. So now when you have done all this, what is your mode of choice ?
post #6265 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Sure thing!
CE Dimming seems to work by auto-dimming the screen once a certain threshold is reached. It is enabled in all modes except movie/CAL modes, and cannot be disabled. Once the screen displays dark enough content, the CE-Dimming kicks in and auto-dims the screen further, presumably to help hide screen uniformity issues like clouding and flashlighting, and possibly give the illusion of deeper blacks. However, many people find this quite annoying, as this can be very jarring as the screen jumps up and down in brightness based on the brightness of the image. When the image is already dark (like a dark cave with little light, a night scene in the woods, or a space scene in a science-fiction film with only the stars to light the screen, for example), the screen suddenly dims even more, making an already dark scene even more difficult to see. Stars become so dim in space shots as to be difficult to see, and opening/closing titles are much dimmer than intended. This can also be observed easily by watching any dark scene with the Samsung menu up - you can easily see the menu auto-dim with the rest of the picture, and brighten up as the image gets brighter.
I don't take any credit for this, as the original post can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1435194/tweak-disabling-autodimming-for-samsung-eseries-smart-tv-mine-is-es6710
To disable CE-Dimming/Auto Dimming on the 2012 ESxxxx series sets:
Auto dimming works by dimming the screen when a certain low brightness level is reached. By raising the brightness enough, that can assure that the tv never reaches that low brightness level. Of course that means raising the tv brighter than you should, resulting in an overly-bright and washed-out image. You can compensate for that however by making a simple adjustment in the white balance menu. Basically, you're cranking up the brightness a bit at the beginning of the processing chain, where CE-Dimming is involved, and then compensating for the brightness later in the processing chain in the white balance, once CE-Dimming has looked at the image and decided not to auto-dim due to the extra brightness. It's just a simple trick, but it works really well.
- turn your brightness up to 53
- In your white balance menu, set the following:
R-Offset - 12
G-Offset - 12
B-Offset - 12
R-Gain - 25 (default)
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
Keep gamma on 0

That's it! CE-Dimming is now reduced to the point where it should not bother you. There is only the slightest hint of CE-Dimming remaining. And Micro-Dimming still appears to be working. This can be applied to Standard, Natural, and Vivid modes. CE-Dimming does not affect Movie/CAL modes like the other modes.
I have tried to tweak it a bit more hoping to completely eliminate the dimming altogether by dropping the Offsets another 4 points each, and adjusting the brightness accordingly using the AVS calibration disc. This results in the CE-Dimming appearing to be virtually eliminated. Just make sure all Offsets are dropped equally to avoid any unwanted color changes. Here is my workaround after dropping the Offsets down another 4 points each and using the AVS disc to adjust the brightness and contrast:
Brightness - 61
R-Offset - 8
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8
R-Gain - 25 (default)
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
You may find you don't even need to drop it down further, and just keep the Offsets on 12 and brightness on 53.
Another nice benefit to doing this is it disables the screen turning off when the image displayed is all black.. The screen will still turn off however when switching sources. You can also still apply color adjustments to the white balance settings once you put in the workaround. For instance, I find my set has too much of a red push, so to compensate I reduce the R-Offset and R-Gain settings:
Brightness - 61
R-Offset - 3
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8
R-Gain - 10
G-Gain - 25 (default)
B-Gain - 25 (default)
Until Samsung gives us the ability to disable CE-Dimming at our will (if ever), this should work nicely to accomplish the same thing without having any apparent negative effects.

Great job with the additional tests, Eagle. Thanks. And to confirm... You think you still see Micro Dimming work compared to Movie mode?
post #6266 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

After testing some more sources I can say there's definitely a noticeable difference between
Brightness - 53
R-Offset - 12
G-Offset - 12
B-Offset - 12
and my tweaked settings of
Brightness - 60/61
R-Offset - 8
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8
The additional brightness setting of 60/61 has virtually eliminated the auto-dimming. With a setting of 53 it was greatly reduced but watching the Star Trek intro it was still mildly noticeable, and having the menu up made it apparent in its brightness changes. Bumping the brightness to around 60 and then dropping the Offsets down a few extra points to compensate made all the difference - the image is very stable with only the very slightest hint of auto-dimming - it's reduced to the point that for any type of viewing it can be considered disabled at this point. I now feel that standard is now watchable with this workaround.

hello
Took me some time to check this out. Just made a basic test:
Original brightness 45 and RGB offset 25, 24, 20
Then changed to brightnes 55 and offset 14,15,12
(both offset settings give a correct white balance on my panel).
I also noticed that dimming is reduced with the higher brightness setting. But what about black level and contrast ratio? In both cases black level was the same at 0.08cd/m2 and same peak level of 150cd/m2. That is the good news.

Then I checked greyscale:
brightnessincreasetest.pdf 2386k .pdf file
With original setting which has contrast 80 (=Nitra setting) I have a mild acceptable clipping. With increased brightness clipping is stronger, to what I consider an unacceptable level (see dE error going up at 100% and red in histogram going down strongly, also gamma dropping strongl).

My view is: Standard calibration and settings are more critical and closer to the acceptable limit. Deviating with the settings, like this increase in brightness, could tip it over the (non-fiscal) cliff.
This makes me wonder: if you want to avoid the dimming that much, why not just use movie mode?

There also have been posts about comparing the picture quality of Standard and Movie.I made a careful calibration:
CalibrationSummaryDetailedV2.pdf 2388k .pdf file
ACM Movie stim75 - Copy.xls 235k .xls file
ACM Standard stim75V2 - Copy.xls 236k .xls file
Both are very good, almost the same with movie slightly better. But only with a large effort in getting Standard to that level. Movie settings are easier and less critical.

From this, you might think I prefer Movie. Actually I prefer a carefully calibrated Standard with dimming, because personally I am sensitive towards backlight bleeding and clouding, such as can be seen during scenes with credits (without dimming in movie mode), although I dont like the blacks being washed out during dimming. If I would have had a panel with little clouding, Movie would be my favorite. Standard+Dimming is to compensate the clouding (unfortunately) .
Edited by turboman123 - 10/27/12 at 8:32am
post #6267 of 16126
What about Contrast? Any adjustments necessary?
post #6268 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

hello
Took me some time to check this out. Just made a basic test:
Original brightness 45 and RGB offset 25, 24, 20
Then changed to brightnes 55 and offset 14,15,12
(both offset settings give a correct white balance on my panel).
I also noticed that dimming is reduced with the higher brightness setting. But what about black level and contrast ratio? In both cases black level was the same at 0.08cd/m2 and same peak level of 150cd/m2. That is the good news.
Then I checked greyscale:
brightnessincreasetest.pdf 2386k .pdf file
With original setting which has contrast 80 (=Nitra setting) I have a mild acceptable clipping. With increased brightness clipping is stronger, to what I consider an unacceptable level (see dE error going up at 100% and red in histogram going down strongly, also gamma dropping strongl).
My view is: Standard calibration and settings are more critical and closer to the acceptable limit. Deviating with the settings, like this increase in brightness, could tip it over the (non-fiscal) cliff.
This makes me wonder: if you want to avoid the dimming that much, why not just use movie mode?
There also have been posts about comparing the picture quality of Standard and Movie.I made a careful calibration:
CalibrationSummaryDetailedV2.pdf 2388k .pdf file
ACM Movie stim75 - Copy.xls 235k .xls file
ACM Standard stim75V2 - Copy.xls 236k .xls file
Both are very good, almost the same with movie slightly better. But only with a large effort in getting Standard to that level. Movie settings are easier and less critical.
From this, you might think I prefer Movie. Actually I prefer a carefully calibrated Standard with dimming, because personally I am sensitive towards backlight bleeding and clouding, such as can be seen during scenes with credits (without dimming in movie mode), although I dont like the blacks being washed out during dimming. If I would have had a panel with little clouding, Movie would be my favorite. Standard+Dimming is to compensate the clouding (unfortunately) .

The thing is that micro dimming is giving a dimming effect that movie mode cannot produce. That's why I can not say movie mode is better.
post #6269 of 16126
Right. Supposedly these setting will diminish CE Dimming but leave Micro Dimming intact. Can a difference be seen? I'm not sure yet. I think Eagle said yes, Micro Dimming is still making a difference in Standard with these setting. In other words, less clouding visible in Standard. I'm still not sure it would make me switch away from Movie, which just looks freaking phenomenal on my panel, but we'll see. Turbo - thanks so much for doing all that!
post #6270 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

After testing some more sources I can say there's definitely a noticeable difference between
Brightness - 53
R-Offset - 12
G-Offset - 12
B-Offset - 12
and my tweaked settings of
Brightness - 60/61
R-Offset - 8
G-Offset - 8
B-Offset - 8
The additional brightness setting of 60/61 has virtually eliminated the auto-dimming. With a setting of 53 it was greatly reduced but watching the Star Trek intro it was still mildly noticeable, and having the menu up made it apparent in its brightness changes. Bumping the brightness to around 60 and then dropping the Offsets down a few extra points to compensate made all the difference - the image is very stable with only the very slightest hint of auto-dimming - it's reduced to the point that for any type of viewing it can be considered disabled at this point. I now feel that standard is now watchable with this workaround.
Gamma remains at 0 to keep the brightness at 60. If I bump the gamma to +1 I have to drop the brightness down a few notches, enough to introduce a bit more auto-dimming. And in standard there seems to be no reason to bump the gamma up any higher than 0.
Also, there's no apparent difference between the 2 brightness settings, due to the Offset compensation.

Do you also need to increase the backlight setting value with the lower white balance settings, since the white level should decrease as well as black level?
Is the resulting white level still high enough even in 3D mode where the glasses reduce it?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: LCD Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread