Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 222

This is turning ridiculous.

I don't recall saying that I expect Samsung to guarantee that every panel will be 100% defect-free, and I don't recall hearing anybody else suggest that either.

What I did say is that currently the percentage of Samsung panels with moderate to severe clouding and flashlighting appears to be extremely high - considering that out of 3 Samsung panels my girlfriend and I tried last year, all 3 had very bad clouding and flashlighting - enough to drive us to try out plasma as an alternative. And the one set we bought this year - the one we have currently - also has very noticeable clouding that I would classify as moderate to bad. That's 4 out of 4 Samsung panels we tried that had very poor quality. And a Samsung LCD monitor I bought 2 years ago also suffered from terrible clouding - I returned it and bought an HP w2207h instead, which has a very uniform screen and looks gorgeous compared to the Samsung panel. From everything that I've read about the electronics industry, any given company or product has an expected average failure rate of approximately 7% - maybe as high as 10%. That means that about 1 in 10 products is expected to be bad, and that number is considered to be acceptable, as it would be impossible to guarantee every product can be free of defects.

But Samsung's panel lottery is much worse than that. It seems very highly likely that the first set you get will almost be guaranteed to have a good amount of defects out of the box - a moderate amount of either clouding or flashlighting or both. It may in fact take several exchanges or repairs to get a panel that can be considered "good". Or you might be unlucky and never end up with a "good" panel. This is simply not acceptable. I am not saying that I expect every panel they make to be 100% clouding-free. But I do expect 90% of their panels to be mostly clouding-free. And they come nowhere close to this percentage.

How do other companies manage to produce a higher yield of quality screens?

Also, it's not only the large amount of panels that have these issues that I have a problem with, it's also the amount of clouding on these panels. I'm not talking about a small patch of clouding. I have like 5 or 6 different large blotches of clouding all over the screen, plus 2 other huge ones near the bottom of the screen that oddly form a "V" shape. Together, I'm guessing that this clouding takes up a good 25% of the screen, at least. Probably more than that.

And you find this acceptable?
Edited by eagle_2 - 11/11/12 at 9:06pm

No, I wasn't referring to the VT50. I was keeping things on an even playing field. I was referring to the TC-L47WT50 - a current Panasonic LED 3D set - roughly comparable to the ES7500 in terms of features and price.

from CNET:

"From the standpoint of maintaining consistent light output over the entire area of the screen, as well as image fidelity when seen from off-angle, the WT50 displayed excellent screen uniformity. Unlike most other edge-lit LEDs I've tested, the WT50's screen was pretty much free of bright spots and clouding."

Which illustrates my point - Panasonic doesn't need to charge $5k for this set to have good uniformity. So why are you suggesting that Samsung would have to?

And that last part I quoted was nonsense. So if the ES8000 suffered from poor uniformity and the Panasonic didn't then nobody would ever buy the Samsung? Is that what you said? Ridiculous. There is also something called features that would affect a purchasing decision - for instance, the Panasonic has great uniformity, but forces motion interpolation (motion smoothing) in cinema mode, which was a deal-breaker for CNET, and would certainly be a deal-breaker for many customers too. So a set can have great uniformity and still be a poor seller due to other issues. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Panasonic seems to be able to make a good quality screen - so why can't Samsung?

Plus how in the hell are people supposed to know about these high percentages of poorly-made Samsung panels until they start buying into them and then realize how they look? It's not like it says so on the box, and it's not like the sales guy says, "so, these Samsungs have very bad clouding on most of their sets, and these Panasonics over here have very little to none - now which would you like to buy?". It doesn't work that way. Most people aren't aware of the quality control issues with these panels until they buy one.

And $3k was half the cost of a used car for me - a car! A nice one, loaded with all available options! Sure it's a 2002, but it's a really nice car. $2-$3 is a ton of money for a tv. If I had told my girlfriend's folks that they need to spend $2k - $3k on a tv to get a half-way descent one, they would have laughed me out of the room. They would never spend over $500 on a tv, and they didn't have to. They spent $450 on a Vizio and it's a great set with no screen uniformity issues. Sure it's not 3D and doesn't come packed with apps and nonsense - but the screen has good uniformity - something Samsung can't achieve with sets 4-6 times the cost. Back in the 80's-90's when I was buying CRTs, I never paid over $400 for a set, and for the technology, they were gorgeous. I never got one with a cloudy screen, that's for sure. I never had to return the set 3 or 4 or 5 times to get one that had a good screen.
Edited by eagle_2 - 11/11/12 at 9:34pm

Well I gotta hand it to you - you're the first person I've encountered here that is happy the quality of these panels are so bad. Congratulations.

How do you possibly figure that any of us are guaranteed to get a good one? Are you freaking kidding me? You can only return so many sets at Best Buy before they block you from returns. I know this for a fact because I was banned from returns for 90 days!!! So where's my guarantee? That's the only reason I didn't try to get a better panel - I went though several Samsung panels last year, and went through a few more plasmas this year - again, screen issues on 2 of the panels and I hated the aggressive ABL on 1, plus the 3D was atrocious on the ST50. So I was blocked from any more returns for 90 days. I wasn't even told this until I bought the tv, then I was told afterwards that I can't return it, even if it's defective.

Oh, I see - you mean I can still call Samsung and complain and get a panel swapped out. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. There's no guarantee that they will do this for me. They told me over the phone the other day that if they send a tech over and he decides that it's ok, regardless of how I feel about it, they won't swap it and I will have to pay for the tech visit!!

So I ask again, where is my guarantee that I'll be getting a good panel by the end of all this? It doesn't sound to me like their goal is to make me happy. It just sounds like their goal is to make the tech happy.

You keep saying this without providing any proof that it would put the cost of these sets out our reach, just to add a layer of quality control. This is simply you saying it is so.

My clouding is more than detectable during normal viewing. It is unavoidable. I have tried everything and there is no hiding that clouding unless I let standard mode apply full auto-dimming to hide it. That is not a solution I find acceptable.

Although I feel you deserve your opinion here, gtm73, because you own one, once again the conflict has started because you felt other's shouldn't be talking smack about Samsung. Please be aware of this. You disappeared for a while after the last debacle, and your first post back was against people here speaking their mind on their experiences. That post wasn't directed towards Eagle, but he stepped up to defend it - and so it begins.

In hopes of keeping this thread on a positive note and helping others;

1. Without a doubt - - Samsung definitely has panel problems, especially with the 65" (65UNES8000). But so do other manufacturers - - see the Sony HX950 thread - especially the larger tv's - (65")

Contrary to Flavius (Full Roman Name is "Flavius Luvius Sonius Haitus Samsungus") there are many satisfied Samsung owners (yours truly - 65" panel). Unfortunately - - this only thing that matters is what you TV looks like and how it's performing.

2. Samsung Product Quality should be better - - I can't see how all these returns and replacements are helping their bottom line. Maybe they can't control the manufacturing process at the price point they have. If so, they need to adjust the price and stop shipping out sets with major problems - - but it's a business decision and it looks like they have made the decision to ship out what they have.

3. Samsung Support - - as mentioned earlier - - Samsung Phone Support is horrific and you're much better off documenting your complaint on their Support Web Site. For all the complaints I had (third panel a charm - first doesn't count - - damaged in shipping from Paul's TV) - - they have responded favorably and I have an incredible set, picture and 3D that I will match to Sony, Plasma's or any other challenger. I couldn't be happier with the performance of my TV. Sure, there are some issues - - for me, very very slight vertical banding. If I had to give it a percentage, I'd say it's visible in 2% of my viewing - - and even then, slightly visible - - not like it was with my second set that was returned.

Keep pressing Samsung until you are 100% satisfied or what you can live with. If that means a return and refund or exchange - - then by all means, pursue all recourse.

Lastly - - I do not have the flashlighting our clouding problems that others have mentioned in the forum. Maybe it's because I go through my AVR - Yamaha RX-A2000 or I use the "Standard" setting that uses dimming. Honestly - - the only time I really notice dimming is during the credits on a totally black screen at the end of a movie and even then, it's hit and miss. I can still read the info - - which I do sometime to see the song tracks or actors.

Cheers - Rico

Maybe some on-topic levity will lighten things up ... I had been complaining about an "Updated Firmware Available" dialogue box popping up everytime I turn on the TV. Turns out it's a message from my AVR, not the TV -- which would explain why it wouldn't respond to my Samsung remote. Boy, do I feel stupid! The firmware has been updated and the message has gone away. Please don't revoke my posting privileges.

I'd hate to steer this discussion thread back on topic, but does anyone know if it's possible to get 3D in Dynamic mode. I watch mostly everything in Dynamic mode (I like the SOE and watching as if everything is being shot LIVE), at least until my local Best Buy technician can get to my house to professionally calibrate my set. When I turn on 3D it changes to Standard mode.

gtm73 - - The "without a doubt" comment I made is not backed by any scientific information or data that I can empirically reference - - it's based on my own experience and in reading multiple reviews on Amazon as well as this forum and my local rep at Paul's TV.

You can also see the complaint on Sony's forum (HX950) and it appears (again, I don't have access to the data) that it is more prevalent (not absolute) on the larger panels - - 65" and up.

I think Nitra covered this very well with his "panel uniformity" post a while back. I also believe it is inherent in the LCD/LED "edge lit" sets (technology) and it's eventually something that will be addressed and corrected in the future.

I knew going into this that the technology was new (newer) and that can always pose problems. I did get the extended warranty and right now, am an extremely happy camper with my Samsung 65". But it took a while, a couple returns and learning from this forum on the settings and what to do and what not to do. (For me - - namely, forgetting about firmware updates as I'm very happy with my picture right now and really do not use any of the Samsung apps. and stream exclusively from my Sony BDP S790 Bluray player).

Keep the faith - - if you have problems with your set - - get them fixed to your satisfaction.

Yes - since Optical is limited to 5.1 output, it should work. You also have the option of ARC - Audio Return Channel (HDMI 2) - but I have optical setup up on my TV for backup for OTA (Antenna) with optical to my receiver (audio input). It sends a broadcast 5.1 Dolby Digital signal just fine.

Sure, you can do this. After the TV switches to 3D mode, just press menu on the remote and switch the picture mode to Dynamic. You will now have full control over all of the normal picture settings associated with the Dynamic mode. In fact, there are a couple more than usual. You can change the color temp to any of the four standard options (not simply the Cool and Normal settings allowed in non-3D Dynamic mode). I actually prefer the Dynamic setting for some 3D content. BTW, once you change this setting, it should automatically kick in the next time you view 3D content even if you are watching 2D content in Standard mode. Pretty cool, actually.

I thought I read that you can only output 2 channel (stereo) from the TV to another component (A/V Receiver for example). If you want full channel audio integrity, don't you have to go directly from your component to the A/V receiver? Blu Ray to A/V receiver, STB to A/v Receiver, etc.?

I have an optical cable going from my television to my Samsung Soundbar, and even using the external speaker settings, do not have access to the full array of audio settings, and instead the Soundbar creates a "simulated surround", as would an A/v Receiver if I am correct.

Just to weigh in on the Samsung panel discussion vs. overall market quality, I think it is important to acknowledge a few things...

1) Samsung accounts for almost 20% of the Flat Panel Market overall, which is a huge number. I don't have the stats, but I am guessing that number may be even higher as it relates to the larger screen sizes...there are fewer players in the large flat panel market. As such, you will probably "hear" more about Samsung than most other manufacturers. The large, ultra thin LEDs are so new, that the technology as whole is likely being pushed to its limit.

http://www.isuppli.com/Display-Materials-and-Systems/News/Pages/Global-Flat-Panel-TV-Shipments-Return-to-Growth-in-Q2-Samsung-Stays-on-Top-of-LCD-Market.aspx

2) I think we can acknowledge that several users on this board have had legitimate issues with their panels or overall experience without making an indictment on Samsung as a whole. I realize this may not be a popular opinion, but I do agree that this set plays into the "affordable" consumer market, and with the age of the technology to-date, there should be an expectation of uncertainty. Pair that with the likelihood that an unhappy consumer is more vocal than a happy one, and it easy to create a negative perception. Over time, I also expect that the quality of the larger panels will only get better and better. In the meantime, Samsung and every other vendor will have to replace panels that do not meet specifications or satisfaction, and that's why we have the warranties we have.

I have said before I was not thrilled with the set out of the box, but with the help of this board and several tweaks to get the settings adjusted properly, and to fit my own preference, I cannot imagine a more beautiful picture - I have seen the rest, and will not trade the quality of this set in for another TV. I also believe the technology and user adjustments within this set allow me to pretty much make my picture look any way I want it to look. You can't say that for every TV on the market. Plasma cannot be adjusted to look like my set, but I can make mine look pretty darn close to the competing Plasmas.

Going from your TV to your AVR Receiver via optical link will send a 5.1 signal - - I just re-verified this on my Yamaha RX-A2000 - - off my antenna HDTV broadcast here in Denver, CO - - it came through 5.1 and other channels that were not major channels like NBC, CBS, Fox or ABC - - were in plain old Dolby.

I believe your "Soundbar" matrixes the 5.1 signal to simulated surround - - but I do not believe you have a dedicated "sub-woofer," so I'm not sure exactly what you are getting. You're soundbar manual should provide that information.

If you do have a receiver that is capable of 5.1 Dolby Digital and the corresponding speaker setup - - you will be able to obtain 5.1 from your TV to your AVR receiver, to your speakers via optical or Toslink connection. (Optical audio output)

Does this make sense?

UPDATE:
I found out what the real problem was....On my 2012 samsung smart TV (UN46ES7500), it does support output 5.1 audio via PCM or DD, whether on Optical/SPDIF or HDMI outputs....but heres the catch, The entire SmartHub User Interface only supports 2 channels...yes even for netflix and amazon video streaming services....what a rip off.....

Here's the SmartHub Fiasco Thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438853/official-samsung-smart-hub-fiasco-thread

OK so I have a problem with my 40es8000,

I have connected my laptop with a HDMI cable to HDMI/DVI port
when I choose 1920x1080 60Hz or 59Hz I get artifacts like screen tearing on desktop and video playback
when I set the monitor (TV) resolution on 1600x900 60Hz or 1280x720 60Hz for example it runs perfectly normal
but that is not the solution since I sholud be able to run on 1080p 60 Hz without any problem
(got the same laptop hooked to a 32pfl7803d on 1080p 60Hz without any artifacts or issues)

the laptop is HP envy with Win7 x64 and HD5650 graphics card with latest Ati drivers
(playing with source/PC, source-DVI/PC and other mods did nothing, problem remains)
I would like to set the native resolution when hooking up my laptop and use it for video playback and some gaming

seems to me like a graphics driver issue but not sure...

Anyone ?

Wow - - didn't know that. Since I do not use the SmartHub or applications, I am able to get 5.1 audio via the TV (OTA) to my AVR.

Another reason to use a Bluray player to stream content. Kind of strange and I'll have to check whether the UNES8000 also limits audio output to two channels. That doesn't make any sense - - especially if they are trying to push their applications. Why stream Netflix or any other premium content provider for movies via SmartHub if you can't get the best audio possible?

Maybe someone else can chime in on whether this is a pure "SmartHub" limitation on all Samsung TV's or if it's limited to certain model numbers.

I swore never to buy an edge lit LED (LCD) TV. I chose the CCFL backlit LCD Samsung 46B755 in 2009 because it was much more pleasing to my eye than the then-current LED displays. No clouding issues whatsoever. *Sigh* I miss those CCFL TVs.

What do I do last thursday? I go into a local A/V store and notice thay have this TV (ES8005, I'm from Sweden) at a large discount (like 10% off the general list price), so I ask a salesman why this TV is suddenly so cheap. He looks it up and tells me the price is way wrong. Unfortunately for him, the law says that the store is bound by the listed price in the store. So while he tells a collegue to take the price tag down and replace it, I decide to go for it and buy the TV.

I have now calibrated it, thrice, and will probably do it more times than I care to admit using DVE HD Basics on blu-ray.

First impressions, picture quality is good. I still hold plasma to be best if you only regard picture quality but plasmas have too many drawbacks for me. Black-levels are okay, sure better than most edge-lit LEDs but Sony's HX855 is better. Color accuracy is close to great, A little too much of a red-push for me to be completely satisfied with it (though admittedly, much better after calibration). Greens are much more accurate than my last Samsung TV however, I could never get the greens to be acceptable on that set. Blue is on par with the B755. The ES8005 has more choices in the menus regarding picture quality and processing which is always a good thing, even though I tend to disable all processing and "enhancements" as soon as I am physically possible. All in all, I'm quite pleased.

My TV has got clouding in the middle of the panel but it is only visible with a complete black image. When viewing any content it goes away, or rather I don't see it. Doesn't bother me. No banding problems either. Smart TV is still a joke. It was awful back in 2009 and sure, it has gotten better but it is still far from being able to replace my computer, or phone for websurfing. Controlling the TV with motion control doesn't really work. Voice commands are working surprisingly well though. But I do feel self-conscious and a bit ridiculous talking to my TV, can't help it.

3D is... meh.... cool and it works but I think passive 3D is better. Wasn't the reason why I bought this TV anyhow, so I concider it a bonus feature.

So there you have it. I'm not sure if this came out as overly negative, it sure wasn't my meaning. It is far from perfect, but of all the choices I had and for the price I think the ES8005 is the best compromise for my needs atm.

I get 5.1 audio from the SmartHub apps via optical. Just double-checked with an HD movie from Amazon Prime in 5.1, and my AVR is receiving a 5.1 signal.

Yep me too using optical out from the tv to my Pioneer receiver - 5.1 All the way. I hadn't heard anything about this "smarthub fiasco" but my understanding was that you only get 2.1 when using the HDMI ARC unless the sources are channels that are OTA. Using Optical cables you should be fine