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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 226

post #6751 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Garnoch - making consumer's lives easier has never been major movie studio's main objective. They are constantly worried about digital rights (understandably so) but do not adapt very well to new technology that they cannot control.
That being said, I understand the convenience of streaming and I stream primarily Amazon Prime to my Sammy 65" but I mostly use Bluray and 3D Bluray.
Here's why - - picture quality and features, first and foremost. Even with a fast connection, your pixels will stream at a max of around 10 mbps. Bluray is up to 36 mbps - - plus any added features on the disk. And when it gets to 3D Bluray discs - - without a doubt, it's a much better format and the full audio soundtrack is available, as well (7.1 in many instances). VUDU will stream 3D, but not 3D with a 7.1 soundtrack.
I hope I'm not off topic relative to your comment, but I agree with you that if you are going to shell out the bucks for a Bluray movie, they should be able to provide the same quality streaming experience - - or as close as they can via the "cloud" or iTunes & other formats.
I'm not the norm - - I still belong to Blockbuster as well as 3D Bluray Rental for 3D flicks. The latter was in lieu of buying every 3D disk I watched or renting (streaming) and paying a five to six buck cost per movie - - without the benefit of the full soundtrack. I may eventually cancel Blockbuster if I can get 3D Bluray Rental to provide more discs and a lower price. I watch a lot of movies but if it's a stinker and doesn't pass the five to fifteen minute test, it's out of the player and back to the store.
I have a hard time watching regular DVD's - - even though they are upscaled via my Bluray player and receiver. The Bluray disc quality - - ESPECIALLY on our Sammy sets is unbelievable. A 65" screen in my man cave with full theater sound (9.1 - Yamaha) with this 3D technology is unreal. It's really brought me and my girlfriend a lot of enjoyment - - especially Saturday night - - 3D night. And the drinks and popcorn are a lot cheaper, too!

I definitely agree Blu-ray is better than iTunes because of the bit rate but it's surprisingly minimal when just watching. Here's a good article....
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/03/the-ars-itunes-1080p-vs-blu-ray-shootout/

That being said though, I'd still buy the Blu-ray for myself, if I knew the copy would be HD too for the convenience. Right now, I only consider it for the 3D movies. And digital rights is the reason they should be doing this so I don't have to rip a copy without it. You said it perfectly.

Surprisingly, considering my profession, I don't really care if I have 5.1 or 7.1 in my house though, but for those that do, Blu-ray has a definite advantage there too.
post #6752 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtm73 View Post

I wonder if that is because you have an ES8000 or because Eagle is just more perceptive than you?

Very possible. Other people have noticed a dimming improvement with past updates as well but Eagle and I did not. I'll reset my settings to check it out this weekend, but I assume like before that I'll see what Eagle sees.
post #6753 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Think of PCM as an encoding method, like MP3 is. It stands for Pulse-code modulation.

It was always easier for me to think of PCM as a zip file. All of the audio is wrapped up in a nice little bundle that is "un-zipped" to play what ever audio the device is capable of.
post #6754 of 15327
Garnoch - re 7.1 output - - I guess I'm trying to justify my spending for the extra speakers when most of the format is 5.1!

I will say that a quality 7.1 soundtrack does add to the "envelope of sound" when it's properly mastered. Hey, I like 3D that jumps out at you and 7.1 that bounces around the room and hits you like Muhammad Ali's left jabs - - that's the type of guy I am!

smile.gif
post #6755 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtm73 View Post

You said it yourself, you buy the two disc set and then just complain about it. Across the whole they don't sell LESS product, they sell the same product for a greater price.
Eagle, the man isn't out to get you, he just wants to make the best profit he can. You aren't entitled to stuff for free just because you want it.

I don't recall saying anywhere that I should get free stuff because I want it. Wow.

If I'm paying for the discs, how is it free again?

The point I was making is that they include stuff all the time to make the value seem better - documentaries, deleted scenes, commentaries, trailers, galleries, etc., etc. - is this free? No, this is factored into the price, and they have to decide if the film will make enough sales on BD to warrant including extra value content, and then they price it accordingly. All I was saying is that clearly, the inclusion of "digital movies" with the BD is obviously designed to attract customers by making it appear a better value, when in fact, like garnoch pointed out, the SD file they include is mostly useless when the whole point in buying the blu-ray is to get the film in HD.

By including an HD version of the file instead of SD, that would actually be including something that people might value - having a true 1080p legal digital copy for taking with them on travels, etc. - so how would this be free if I pay for the discs?

And I don't always buy the discs - sometimes if a film seems to expensive with no value content to improve the deal, I skip it. I really wanted to buy Enemy Mine which was available only in a very limited number - there may be a few left still actually, but it cost $30 and there are no extras other than a commentary. I skipped it due to cost vs value. On the other hand, I bought Halloween II and III a few weeks ago because the studios included tons of extra content - commentaries, documentaries, trailers, galleries, etc. - so they got my money.

They claim "piracy" is a big concern these days to their bottom line, yet you talk about making the best profit they can. Well, how hard is it to encode a 1080p digital file and include it on a separate disc? It costs close to nothing to do, and would add greatly to the perceived quality of the disc set, instead of a lousy SD version which is useless. This would actually increase their sales, I believe.
post #6756 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebignewt View Post

So this is a way to get streaming Netflix or VuDu movies from the Smarthub to play true 5.1 sound? Pardon me for asking but where are the SPDIF settings located, and what does PCM stand for?

Spdif settings
Go to menu > sound> extra settings> spdif
post #6757 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

I definitely agree Blu-ray is better than iTunes because of the bit rate but it's surprisingly minimal when just watching. Here's a good article....
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/03/the-ars-itunes-1080p-vs-blu-ray-shootout/
That being said though, I'd still buy the Blu-ray for myself, if I knew the copy would be HD too for the convenience. Right now, I only consider it for the 3D movies. And digital rights is the reason they should be doing this so I don't have to rip a copy without it. You said it perfectly.
Surprisingly, considering my profession, I don't really care if I have 5.1 or 7.1 in my house though, but for those that do, Blu-ray has a definite advantage there too.

Garnoch, interesting how we could both read the same article and come to completely different conclusions...I thought the most telling was the picture of the face that shows the loss of detail in the blown out whites. For a change I am not condeming I am actually curious here, you go to great lengths to tune in your set, you seem to spend lots of time at it and arrive at reasonble compromises and settings after plenty of thought and effort. What is it that makes losing that level of detail OK? Is it just the convenience of itunes?

Anything that I really REALLY want to watch or is highly recommended around here (Avatar, Batman, Avengers) I would ONLY consider Blu-Ray. Stuff for the kids I go iTunes so I can stuff it on to an iPad or iPod Touch for bribery on the plane....Maybe this is what you have said above and I missed it again...
post #6758 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Garnoch - re 7.1 output - - I guess I'm trying to justify my spending for the extra speakers when most of the format is 5.1!
I will say that a quality 7.1 soundtrack does add to the "envelope of sound" when it's properly mastered. Hey, I like 3D that jumps out at you and 7.1 that bounces around the room and hits you like Muhammad Ali's left jabs - - that's the type of guy I am!
smile.gif

Oh I agree 100% with you and it was money well spent so no need to justify. smile.gif
post #6759 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I don't recall saying anywhere that I should get free stuff because I want it. Wow.
If I'm paying for the discs, how is it free again?
The point I was making is that they include stuff all the time to make the value seem better - documentaries, deleted scenes, commentaries, trailers, galleries, etc., etc. - is this free? No, this is factored into the price, and they have to decide if the film will make enough sales on BD to warrant including extra value content, and then they price it accordingly. All I was saying is that clearly, the inclusion of "digital movies" with the BD is obviously designed to attract customers by making it appear a better value, when in fact, like garnoch pointed out, the SD file they include is mostly useless when the whole point in buying the blu-ray is to get the film in HD.
By including an HD version of the file instead of SD, that would actually be including something that people might value - having a true 1080p legal digital copy for taking with them on travels, etc. - so how would this be free if I pay for the discs?
And I don't always buy the discs - sometimes if a film seems to expensive with no value content to improve the deal, I skip it. I really wanted to buy Enemy Mine which was available only in a very limited number - there may be a few left still actually, but it cost $30 and there are no extras other than a commentary. I skipped it due to cost vs value. On the other hand, I bought Halloween II and III a few weeks ago because the studios included tons of extra content - commentaries, documentaries, trailers, galleries, etc. - so they got my money.
They claim "piracy" is a big concern these days to their bottom line, yet you talk about making the best profit they can. Well, how hard is it to encode a 1080p digital file and include it on a separate disc? It costs close to nothing to do, and would add greatly to the perceived quality of the disc set, instead of a lousy SD version which is useless. This would actually increase their sales, I believe.

Again, you miss my point. While I have no issue with your analysis I am certain that somewhere in these multi-billion dollar companies there are entire teams dedicated to researching, analyzying, forecasting and optimizing this very equation. If they had concluded it would make them a greater profit they would be doing so.

How about you just table your desire to see HD content included as something you would like as a customer (because that would actually make sense) and leave the economic analysis to the experts?
post #6760 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtm73 View Post

Garnoch, interesting how we could both read the same article and come to completely different conclusions...I thought the most telling was the picture of the face that shows the loss of detail in the blown out whites. For a change I am not condeming I am actually curious here, you go to great lengths to tune in your set, you seem to spend lots of time at it and arrive at reasonble compromises and settings after plenty of thought and effort. What is it that makes losing that level of detail OK? Is it just the convenience of itunes?
Anything that I really REALLY want to watch or is highly recommended around here (Avatar, Batman, Avengers) I would ONLY consider Blu-Ray. Stuff for the kids I go iTunes so I can stuff it on to an iPad or iPod Touch for bribery on the plane....Maybe this is what you have said above and I missed it again...

Even arstechnica was surprised at how well it did, and yes you can definitely see the difference when paused, which I mentioned here long ago, but when watching in real time, its hard to see. Can you depending on the content? Yes, but it really is surprising. And yes, convenience is the reason, but only because the quality is very good. I scroll through movie posters, have everything categorized several different ways, it's easy and it's everywhere. iTunes 1080p blows away cable, or in my case DirecTV, which is what we usually watch anyway, plus most of the time, we rent, we don't buy, which is a download as well. So when I buy, it's usually a download because it's damn close when watched in real time and convenient. Now for me, if I was getting that convenient HD download copy, I would buy the Blu-ray because yes it's better (and 3D would be a plus). I would then watch it once and the kids would be streaming around the house and on their devices with a copy.
post #6761 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

It was always easier for me to think of PCM as a zip file. All of the audio is wrapped up in a nice little bundle that is "un-zipped" to play what ever audio the device is capable of.

I like that, there ya go.
post #6762 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I don't recall saying anywhere that I should get free stuff because I want it. Wow.
If I'm paying for the discs, how is it free again?
The point I was making is that they include stuff all the time to make the value seem better - documentaries, deleted scenes, commentaries, trailers, galleries, etc., etc. - is this free? No, this is factored into the price, and they have to decide if the film will make enough sales on BD to warrant including extra value content, and then they price it accordingly. All I was saying is that clearly, the inclusion of "digital movies" with the BD is obviously designed to attract customers by making it appear a better value, when in fact, like garnoch pointed out, the SD file they include is mostly useless when the whole point in buying the blu-ray is to get the film in HD.
By including an HD version of the file instead of SD, that would actually be including something that people might value - having a true 1080p legal digital copy for taking with them on travels, etc. - so how would this be free if I pay for the discs?
And I don't always buy the discs - sometimes if a film seems to expensive with no value content to improve the deal, I skip it. I really wanted to buy Enemy Mine which was available only in a very limited number - there may be a few left still actually, but it cost $30 and there are no extras other than a commentary. I skipped it due to cost vs value. On the other hand, I bought Halloween II and III a few weeks ago because the studios included tons of extra content - commentaries, documentaries, trailers, galleries, etc. - so they got my money.
They claim "piracy" is a big concern these days to their bottom line, yet you talk about making the best profit they can. Well, how hard is it to encode a 1080p digital file and include it on a separate disc? It costs close to nothing to do, and would add greatly to the perceived quality of the disc set, instead of a lousy SD version which is useless. This would actually increase their sales, I believe.

You make a good point. I had said I don't feel entitled to a digital copy and don't - unless it's written on the package. But no where did it say I was getting a SD copy, so when I bought the movie in HIGH DEFINITION and received a SD copy, I did feel a little taken advantage of. And yes, if the point of digital copies was to curb ripping and trying to get people to buy a disc that didn't take off that well, instead of downloads, then they need to get on the ball. That being said, like I said it appears this is starting to change. I'm going to scour the net first to see what copy I get before I buy though.
post #6763 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolk11 View Post

Spdif settings
Go to menu > sound> extra settings> spdif

Also - on my settings, I show the option for Dolby Digital as well as DTS Neo: 2:5 - which I think is DTS Neo 2.5 (see below). Would this setting provide 5.1, even 7.1 audio output? (But not through Optical - - only through return ARC - HDMI ? And - must have receiver capable of decoding or is it done by the TV?)

I believe Optical is limited to 5.1?

Just for grins, I have a call into DTS Corporate in Calabasas, CA.

***********************************************************************

DTS Neo:X™
<< Technologies
Audio technology for the next generation of immersive 3D entertainment…
NeoX Flash

See how DTS NEO:X technology completes your 3D entertainment experience.
Image Text Link
Spotlight Series

Hear from the pros how sound has impacted and influenced their careers.

DTS Neo:X is the world’s first 2.0/5.1/6.1/7.1 to 9.1/11.1 conversion technology within a single algorithm, featuring 32 different input/output combinations and Cinema/Game/Music selectable modes unique for any listening experience. DTS Neo:X also delivers the most flexible upmixing solution for high-end home theater systems.
***********************************************************************
post #6764 of 15327
Exactly correct, garnoch. Do I feel entitled to an HD copy? No, I never even implied that. But as you said, when you buy an HD movie on an HD disc format, you expect the digital download or digital file to be HD, especially when it doesn't state otherwise on the packaging.
post #6765 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Exactly correct, garnoch. Do I feel entitled to an HD copy? No, I never even implied that. But as you said, when you buy an HD movie on an HD disc format, you expect the digital download or digital file to be HD, especially when it doesn't state otherwise on the packaging.
Rent it and Rip It. Signed, Handbrake.biggrin.gif Seriously, I doubt that the labels get that many would prefer an HD version vs a SD version. They're more worried about releases than they are over differences in content. Blueray discs probably aren't that big a part of their sales now anyway and not that many people have movies on their computers. They know how to rent movies in iTunes, but not how to rent and rip.
Edited by thebignewt - 11/16/12 at 11:42am
post #6766 of 15327
Love that program. smile.gif Why? Because I wasn't given the same resolution copy as the disc I bought biggrin.gif
post #6767 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

And - must have receiver capable of decoding or is it done by the TV?)
I believe Optical is limited to 5.1?

The receiver and tv must both be ARC capable but I believe that most tv's, if not all, do not have the capability of decoding audio. Just passing thru whatever is presented to it that is input/output compatible. True, discrete 5.1 audio is the limit of optical provided the source is discrete 5.1 (such as the internal ATSC tuners). Some tv's can pass 5.1 thru optical via an external source but not many.
post #6768 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtm73 View Post

I wonder if that is because you have an ES8000 or because Eagle is just more perceptive than you?

I highly doubt that. I'm sensitive to all aspects of video playback myself, and I was the first to notice the less aggressive auto dimming.

Then all followed and confirmed the change.
post #6769 of 15327
Hi. So I'm a Sony HX950 owner but I thought I'd ask a question for a friend here. They recently bought the ES8000 (it's a great TV!) but the had to return the first one for a defect. I don't have pictures of the second one but basically if you have a black screen with a white play button on it you get a cloudy looking white leak around the play button. Sometimes it spreads as far as 3-4" away from the small 1" play button itself and it's obvious from far a away. Nothing like this happens in dark scenes/movies/games or is noticeable at all (can't find it even if I'm looking for it). Is this typical or is it something worth returning and getting a new one all over again? It also appears to change in extremity based on viewing angle. If you view from above or to the side it's at its worst, from down looking up at the TV it's best.
post #6770 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanhvt View Post

I highly doubt that. I'm sensitive to all aspects of video playback myself, and I was the first to notice the less aggressive auto dimming.
Then all followed and confirmed the change.

You highly doubt which one?
post #6771 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtm73 View Post

You highly doubt which one?

I highly doubt it that because Eagle is more perceptive, he does not see the change we do. It's more likely that there's a difference between the ES8000 and the ES7500.

Here's an example how ce dimming was ruining the picture before the update:



I can assure you this effect is no longer that aggressive on my ES8000.
post #6772 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanhvt View Post

I highly doubt it that because Eagle is more perceptive, he does not see the change we do. It's more likely that there's a difference between the ES8000 and the ES7500.
Here's an example how ce dimming was ruining the picture before the update:

I can assure you this effect is no longer that aggressive on my ES8000.

Hey there, Steanhvt. Good to "see" you. Based on your picture, I wonder if we're talking about the same thing actually. A scene like that wouldn't be effected by my CE Dimming at all. Can't believe I forgot to reset my settings and test this last night.
post #6773 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Garnoch - glad to see you've got power! By the way - - any chance that the artifacts for Directv have any relation to the power outage and resumption?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Thanks! And thanks for letting me know about the 3D haha smile.gif
I was thinking the same thing about losing power for that long, or that it was always this bad and I wasn't seeing it until getting TV back after all that. I've restarted the STB a few times with no change. Then last night I watched a new recording from NBC and it looked amazing. Then I knew I wasn't crazy and went back to the two CBS recordings I had that looked like crap. They came up as 1080i, and still looked like crap, so I manually switched to 720p in the STB and they looked great all of a sudden. That made no sense because CBS is 1080i like NBC. When I switched back to the native 1080i, it still looked great. My guess is something wasn't working right in the STB and by switching resolutions, I triggered something to "fix" it. That barely makes sense though so I'll see what happens moving forward.

So manually changing the STB's resolution did seem to fix this issue. Everything has been looking great since. Weird that a restart did nothing though.
post #6774 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtm73 View Post

I wouldn't call my post decisive as it is merely my opinion, but for what I paid for the firmware upgrade I am very happy with the improvement (perceived or real).
....i intended my comment as complimentary and encouraging with regard to your efforts and findings. I thought you detailed one of the better accounts of what was observed after a FW update.
post #6775 of 15327
Hey Eagle, I've observed your input months and appreciate the detailed passion that you have reported with.

I gotta be honest at this point: You do appear to be the type of consumer that suffers "buyers remorse" over your buying decisions. That is not an uncommon affliction.

This is mot meant disparriagingly. I may be out of place here, maybe not...but it may be a good idea to recalibrate your expectations of what you spend the money on.

There is no perfect item or product in life. Except Kate Beckinsdale and Jennifer Anniston of course. Car, tv or house. I have found that some things, even the best things that I have plunked my cash down on, are just perfect even in their imperfections.

TANSTAAFL = there aint no such thing as a free lunch....

Your experience with this tv has gone to such levels that I would have abandoned eons ago....I cant keep track of all the issues you have spoken about but...why havent you just returned it and gone with another tv?

respectfully,
post #6776 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Hey there, Steanhvt. Good to "see" you. Based on your picture, I wonder if we're talking about the same thing actually. A scene like that wouldn't be effected by my CE Dimming at all. Can't believe I forgot to reset my settings and test this last night.

Hello Garnoch, good to see you too. The picture is from this page:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1336393657

There are a few examples on it actually. Also look at the avatar picture. The lightning just isn't natural. That was what I was bothered with the most. After the update this disappeared.

I always thought this was ce dimming. I can't think of something else that possibly caused this effect actually.
post #6777 of 15327
my wifi does not work all of the sudden, now my 46ES8000 can't find any wireless network. I did factory reset with service menu but nothing seems to help. do you think the wifi card is gone? how would samsung fix this?
thanks
post #6778 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner1959 View Post

....i intended my comment as complimentary and encouraging with regard to your efforts and findings. I thought you detailed one of the better accounts of what was observed after a FW update.

I completely took your comment that way...I was just trying to be balanced and ensure that anyone visiting here for buying information knew it was just my opinion, based on information presented here, that the 8000 post firmware update dims smoother and softer than it did before....
post #6779 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanhvt View Post

Hello Garnoch, good to see you too. The picture is from this page:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1336393657
There are a few examples on it actually. Also look at the avatar picture. The lightning just isn't natural. That was what I was bothered with the most. After the update this disappeared.
I always thought this was ce dimming. I can't think of something else that possibly caused this effect actually.

Yeah I agree the picture looked funky so I'm glad that this firmware update fixed that for you. I'm not sure what that is though. Micro Dimming maybe? The dimming I always referred to is when very dark scened are turned turned even darker over the entire picture, basically automatically turning the backlight farther down during dark scenes to minimize perceived clouding and flashlighting and creating better perceived blacks.
post #6780 of 15327
Quote:
Originally Posted by anis_ber View Post

my wifi does not work all of the sudden, now my 46ES8000 can't find any wireless network. I did factory reset with service menu but nothing seems to help. do you think the wifi card is gone? how would samsung fix this?
thanks

If your wifi does not work all of the sudden, I assume that's why your 46ES8000 can't find any it. I'm kidding, I know you what you meant. Yeah I think this it's possible that the wifi in the TV is messed up, but have you tried restarting the TV, not just putting it to sleep (off), or tried a full reset? If you do, remember to write down all your settings as they'll be reset.
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