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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 267

post #7981 of 16125
Quote Bolt989 - "I could care less what it looks like or how much it cost's."

Gee, what are you getting Garnoch and Ricoflashback for Xmas? I was thinking about the "Dark Knight" collection...
post #7982 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

In fact, the VT50 seems to have smoother gradation in the shadow detail Truly remarkable.

For a plasma.... wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Myself, I don't like the moving dither in plasma shadows (and even how brighter tones would sometimes break into posterization on fast movement). The sets simply pump out way too many artifacts and noise. Otherwise, they are pretty damn awesome (so long as no IR). The Pannys sets actually had tht stuff worse than the Samsung plasmas that I saw, although they are probalby better sets otherwise.
post #7983 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebignewt View Post

Yeah zero contrast. The person (skibum5000) said he used an i1 Pro spectrophotometer for his calibration guage. But I got the impression that was for color reproduction accuracy, and perhaps the contrast zero was because of his philosophical aversion the digital image alteration.

Maybe you had been thinking of Dynamic Contrast = Off and not Contrast = 0 (I have 98 for 2D and 70 for 3D).
post #7984 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

Maybe you had been thinking of Dynamic Contrast = Off and not Contrast = 0 (I have 98 for 2D and 70 for 3D).

Why does the contrast change so much for 3D? I thought it was mostly brightness issues
post #7985 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

Why does the contrast change so much for 3D? I thought it was mostly brightness issues

I have no clue. It doesn't really seem to make sense. Maybe it helps to lessen cross-talk if they force you to lower contrast settings? Maybe just my set?
post #7986 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Quote Bolt989 - "I could care less what it looks like or how much it cost's."
Gee, what are you getting Garnoch and Ricoflashback for Xmas? I was thinking about the "Dark Knight" collection...

HA! I like that idea. I'll PM him my info. I used to say that about women by the way, but nowadays I have to watch my money.
post #7987 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

hello Garnoch
I am surprised about the Contrast 100. Are you using Standard mode?
I am surprised because Nitra is using Contrast 80 in Standard. Myself, I also had to lower Contrast to prevent clipping at high luminance, and I use 76. And Badwilly in post 4970 has clipping with a Contrast 90.
So to me it shows a trend in Standard mode.
However, in Movie mode, I have no clipping with Contrast 100.

Nitra traded some contrast for better off angle viewing from the sounds of it - so chalk his setting up to a personal tweak/reference. When I did the contrast tests I also landed around 97-100 depending on the test.
post #7988 of 16125
They were also talking Standard mode which usually comes out lower, but I think you're correct that he was trading off a little. I think he said as much but I can't remember. But even Standard, 94 is the lowest I've gone based on the disc and files.
post #7989 of 16125
You know, the WOW experience has definitely been a bit bland for me. Its almost like there really wasn't anything that needed to be changed much. Funny enough the 'tweaking' this thing really needs is with all the features and its brightness - which goes to show its a well made tv that it comes out of the box so nice.....now if only they actually had a real user manual that described each feature in detail - the 700+ pg one onine was long enough to, but still didn't manage!
post #7990 of 16125
I get that. Are you going back to the default settings then? Hey, if that's what make you happy, that's all that matters. Its why I said in the guide, "At a minimum, it is my belief that you should make sure you are on Standard or Movie mode, turn Sharpness down to between 0 and 20 and set your Backlight to a level that looks good in your room."
post #7991 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDenham View Post

Gotcha smile.gif I also switched the setting I'm the 3D menu from MANUAL to AUTO. supposly that setting has something to do with the 3d depth ?? Figured Auto was the best ?

That's what I thought too, but quickly learned otherwise. If it's set to Auto you'll notice at random times the pictures appears to go out of focus and then settle back in. At the same time you'll notice both sides of the picture shrink in and then go back out. That's the AUTO function at work and I don't like it at all. I set it so the normal setting where the picture is as wide as can be and left it like that.
post #7992 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

I get that. Are you going back to the default settings then? Hey, if that's what make you happy, that's all that matters. Its why I said in the guide, "At a minimum, it is my belief that you should make sure you are on Standard or Movie mode, turn Sharpness down to between 0 and 20 and set your Backlight to a level that looks good in your room."

no, im keeping the settings I got, i just meant its kind of funny when you only end up a point or two away from default. What I haven't done and plan to is use your/cnet custom color settings and then call it a day. i might even adjust the color gain down to avoid ce dimming and allow my brightness to go down a few more pts like turboman once suggested. appreciate you posting your settings.

i do have another question. When Nitra talks about his settings he always qualifies his 12 backlight setting as having to be used in conjunction with ECO sensor On...he can't be talking about the eco min setting, but I thought that once ECO sensor was enabled it didn't matter what your backlight setting said???
post #7993 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDenham View Post

Gotcha smile.gif I also switched the setting I'm the 3D menu from MANUAL to AUTO. supposly that setting has something to do with the 3d depth ?? Figured Auto was the best ?
I recommend Manual. It will default to 0, which is fine for most playback. Depending on the source and how it's authored, you can adjust it a notch or two in either direction to virtually eliminate any crosstalk. You can also use the 3D Optimize setting to further fine-tune the picture from -1 to +1. Depending on the source, -1 will give you a slightly overall lighter picture, while +1 is slightly darker than the default 0 setting. Having had a Panasonic GT50 and a Sony HX950 before settling on an ES8000, I can say with some authority that Samsung's 3D performance blows away the other two. It's not even close. The Panny is dull and lifeless with very little 3D presence and the Sony has way too much crosstalk. The ES series also has the most well-rounded, fully adjustable 3D feature set, too. There are no limitations to what you can tweak in 3D mode, which is definitely not the case with the others.
post #7994 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

i do have another question. When Nitra talks about his settings he always qualifies his 12 backlight setting as having to be used in conjunction with ECO sensor On...he can't be talking about the eco min setting, but I thought that once ECO sensor was enabled it didn't matter what your backlight setting said???

I'd strongly suggest using the ECO Sensor setting, but I don't think you quite understand how it works. If your backlight setting is set to 12, then that's the maximum the TV will output. With the ECO Sensor enabled and set to say 4, then that is lowest the backlight will go to. The ECO sensor is going to adjust between 12 and 4 depending on how much ambient light is around the TV. What I did to set mine was find a good backlight setting during the day when my living room is really lit up, which for me is 13, and that's what I set my backlight setting to. Then at night when my room is almost completely dark, I adjust the backlight manually to see what setting looked good in that dark room. That's what I then set the minimum ECO Sensor setting to, which in my case is 4. So now, depending on how bright it is in my room, my backlight will fluctuate between the highest allowed setting of 13 and the lowest allowed setting of 4. It works really well, is not noticeable at all and is pretty much spot on adjusting the backlight to the light conditions of the room. I'm very happy with how well it works. Basically, set the brightness setting where you like when the room is as lit up as it possibly will be in your room. Then set the backlight to what looks good when the room is as dark as it could get in that room and use that setting to set the minimum setting in the ECO Sensor settings.
post #7995 of 16125
Crosstalk = ?? What's ur 3d settings at ?
post #7996 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

I'd strongly suggest using the ECO Sensor setting, but I don't think you quite understand how it works. If your backlight setting is set to 12, then that's the maximum the TV will output. With the ECO Sensor enabled and set to say 4, then that is lowest the backlight will go to. The ECO sensor is going to adjust between 12 and 4 depending on how much ambient light is around the TV. What I did to set mine was find a good backlight setting during the day when my living room is really lit up, which for me is 13, and that's what I set my backlight setting to. Then at night when my room is almost completely dark, I adjust the backlight manually to see what setting looked good in that dark room. That's what I then set the minimum ECO Sensor setting to, which in my case is 4. So now, depending on how bright it is in my room, my backlight will fluctuate between the highest allowed setting of 13 and the lowest allowed setting of 4. It works really well, is not noticeable at all and is pretty much spot on adjusting the backlight to the light conditions of the room. I'm very happy with how well it works. Basically, set the brightness setting where you like when the room is as lit up as it possibly will be in your room. Then set the backlight to what looks good when the room is as dark as it could get in that room and use that setting to set the minimum setting in the ECO Sensor settings.

This seems to be where I always strongly disagree with peoples settings. Even in a pitch black room, these really low backlight settings look terrible to me and completely lose the pop and impact of the image.
post #7997 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

no, im keeping the settings I got, i just meant its kind of funny when you only end up a point or two away from default. What I haven't done and plan to is use your/cnet custom color settings and then call it a day. i might even adjust the color gain down to avoid ce dimming and allow my brightness to go down a few more pts like turboman once suggested. appreciate you posting your settings.
i do have another question. When Nitra talks about his settings he always qualifies his 12 backlight setting as having to be used in conjunction with ECO sensor On...he can't be talking about the eco min setting, but I thought that once ECO sensor was enabled it didn't matter what your backlight setting said???

What Jestered said about Eco. If your room always has constant lighting, then there is no need for Eco of course.

Sorry, I can never remember who uses what settings. You have the CE thing a little wrong though. I assume you're in Standard mode... I have two Standard modes listed, the second diminishes CE Dimming. To do that you need to raise Brightness. Then you have to offset that by lowering your three White Balance Gains down by the same amount you raised Brightness.
post #7998 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

I already have it. Running 150 hours of break in slides before I start the calibration. Then next step after calibrating will be to wall mount it in my HT room. I checked it out, no dead or stuck pixels, no banding, uniformity is 100% spot on with all of the color slides.
The main thing I look for when buying a TV is just raw picture performance. I could care less what it looks like or how much it cost's. On this purchase, I needed a TV that could replace my 9G Pioneer Elite Kuro that died. The VT50 is the only TV I feel meets those demands of mine. The Pioneer Elite Kuro's are the best TV's that were ever made. The VT50 is on par with it and I feel comfortable with my decision of replacing it with the VT50 since it is on the same level as my 9G Kuro. Plus I added the extra 5 inches of real estate.

Dear Mr.Bolt989

Thanks for your good info. I wanted to impress my new girlfriend so wanted to buy this flat panel you spoke so highly about. Went to all the shops in town to ask for a Samsung VT50. But all the salespeople looked at me as if I was a moron.
One guy mentioned that in Europe the VT50 had a low light output, good enough to use as a night light in a baby room. He asked whether I wanted to make babies, as he was eying my new girlfriend (she is a hottie).
So I guess they don't have this new model yet in the shops. Then I remembered from the forum threads that most professionals who talk about VT50 make sure to mention they had a Kuro before. So I asked for a Kuro but the salespeople started laughing.
Now my new girlfriend also thinks I am a moron and said she would phone me .... sometime. Which means never. Damn it, and she was hot.

So you have to help me. Please Sir!
Edited by turboman123 - 12/13/12 at 9:24pm
post #7999 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

This seems to be where I always strongly disagree with peoples settings. Even in a pitch black room, these really low backlight settings look terrible to me and completely lose the pop and impact of the image.

Not all panels or eyes are the same though. Go with what works for you, but if you're being blinded in a dark room from your daytime Brightness, Eco just comes in handy so you don't have to manually change things. Find a good Brightness level for your eyes and environment during the day. Then find a good Brightness for your environment at night. Then set your Brightness for your daytime level and your Eco min setting for your nighttime level and let the TV do the rest. Maybe it's 17 and 4. Maybe it's 12 and 10. All depends on your eyes and your lighting.
post #8000 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Dear Mr.Bolt989
Thanks for your good info. I wanted to impress my new girlfriend so wanted to buy this flat panel you spoke so highly about. Went to all the shops in town to ask for a Samsung VT50. But all the salespeople looked at me as if I was a moron.
One guy mentioned that in Europe the VT50 had a low light output, good enough to use as a night light in a baby room. He asked whether I wanted to make babies, as he was eying me new girlfriend (she is a hottie).
So I guess they don't have this new model yet in the shops. Then I remembered from the forum threads that most professionals who talk about VT50 make sure to mention they had a Kuro before. So I asked for a Kuro but the salespeople started laughing.
Now my new girlfriend also thinks I am a moron and said she would phone me .... sometime. Which means never. Damn it, and she was hot.
So you have to help me. Please Sir!

Man, I love reading your posts, that was funny. Good thing Bolt has a sense of humor. smile.gif
My hot girlfriend mentioned a story like this. I thought it was funny..... my wife didn't though.
post #8001 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

This seems to be where I always strongly disagree with peoples settings. Even in a pitch black room, these really low backlight settings look terrible to me and completely lose the pop and impact of the image.

If I had to guess I would say that's because the rest of our settings don't match. My backlight at 4 in a dark room is just as bright and has all the pop that my TV has in a lit room with a backlight setting of 13. The other settings will determine the backlight settings and if you're other settings don't match mine, then your backlight maximum and minimum settings could be very different, but have the same effect.
post #8002 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

This seems to be where I always strongly disagree with peoples settings. Even in a pitch black room, these really low backlight settings look terrible to me and completely lose the pop and impact of the image.

This is the comment, that many not just you, make that blows my mind. How can the image possibly pop at night if the BL is way up and all the blacks are a washed out awful gray (and the brightest whites then zap through your brain)? I turn the BL way down to MAKE it pop (and to not burn out my retinas). (talking a room with all but no lighting in it, strongly sunlit room that is another matter since there is so much light on the screen that the backlight doesn't light up the screen until much higher while it does provide enough light for the brighter tones to overcome the room, something that CRTs couldn't do). So I use 3-4 BL and 98 contrast for a super dark room. It just takes your eyes a couple minutes to adjust before it looks very bright again even at those lowered levels while maintaing rich blacks and strong pop. But to each their own.

People used to love CRTs in dark rooms and plasmas and those things often topped out at like only 50-80 cd/m^2 which means like lower than 6 BL.
post #8003 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Dear Mr.Bolt989
Thanks for your good info. I wanted to impress my new girlfriend so wanted to buy this flat panel you spoke so highly about. Went to all the shops in town to ask for a Samsung VT50. But all the salespeople looked at me as if I was a moron.
One guy mentioned that in Europe the VT50 had a low light output, good enough to use as a night light in a baby room. He asked whether I wanted to make babies, as he was eying me new girlfriend (she is a hottie).
So I guess they don't have this new model yet in the shops. Then I remembered from the forum threads that most professionals who talk about VT50 make sure to mention they had a Kuro before. So I asked for a Kuro but the salespeople started laughing.
Now my new girlfriend also thinks I am a moron and said she would phone me .... sometime. Which means never. Damn it, and she was hot.
So you have to help me. Please Sir!


biggrin.gif
post #8004 of 16125
"I was wondering what everyone sees if they use Menu->Support->Self Diagnosis->Picture Test?

If you look at the orange soccer ball at the bottom right and then blue bucket to the left of that do you notice that every other 'scanline' going across the soccer ball is brighter orange than the one above and below it and that for the bucket it is every other line is a brighter shade of blue? If you don't notice that from normal distance, what about if you go close to the screen? Trying to figure out the odd vs even scanlines putting out somewhat different shades even when all are fed the same color issue that some sets have. Thanks."


No - as best as I can tell looking close.
UN65ES8000
TV is on a wall so I can't see a panel # and not sure where to find it. Build date of Nov. 2012 in Mexico, bought in Ontario, Canada at end of November.
Cheers.
post #8005 of 16125
Movie mode: further calibration optimization

I have been hesitating between Standard picture mode, and Movie. I really dislike flashlighting/clouding so the dimming in Standard mode in dark scenes helps to hide the clouding. But then darks get crushed which I also dislike.

So following is an attempt to improve move mode to address those problems. I used a new Display3PRO meter which should be quite accurate.

First task is to increase display contrast (not the same as contrast setting). For a given max peak white, if I have higher display contrast, then I can reduce backlight which reduces flashlighting/clouding.
My settings are for a half dark room with peak white around 120cd/m2.
For a given backlight setting, I can increase peak white by increasing contrast setting. In movie mode, I could go up as high as contrast=100 without RGB output hitting a limit, causing clipping as they say. I could also bump up white balance gain to increase peak white without causing clipping. In the end that gave me a peak white of 115cd/m2 with a backlight of 5.
I lowered brightness setting (which influences minimum black) until it just reached a minimum. I did not reduce brightness further because that would crush above black. Brightness setting was then 45 or 46.
With gamma set at +1, I then got almost a constant gamma at 2.22.

There is also a new gamma target called BT1886 which I understand was adopted as a new standard. See discussion here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409045/how-power-law-gamma-calibration-can-lead-to-crushed-blacks

BT1886 has the effect that gamma is lowered in dark scenes. This means that darks are a bit brighter than a constant gamma. Visually, I think it helps against flashlighting/clouding because it "lifts up" a dark scene so that flashlighting/clouding becomes less apparent.
Following are calibration results with constant gamma and BT1886 gamma. I achieved the BT1886 target by increasing the setting for 10p white balance at level 1, 2 and 3.

CalibrationSummaryDetailed.pdf 2365k .pdf file
constant.jpg 60k .jpg file
bt1886.jpg 61k .jpg file
BT1886 gamma at 5% and 10% is not quite smooth. A 20p white balance control would help there.
(Note: PRE=BT1886 and POST=constant gamma)

Following is colour calibration. The ES8000 has a very good linearity for different saturation levels.
AdvancedColorManagementReport.pdf 2644k .pdf file

My settings for Movie are then:
Warm2
Backlight 5
Contrast 100
Brightness 45
Sharpness 20
All special picture modes and motion modes Off

White balance offset 25, 25, 22
gain 38, 50, 26
Custom Color Space:
R 48, 3, 0
G 4,47,3
B 0, 5, 47
Y 52, 47, 4
C 3,47,50
M 44, 5, 45

For constant gamma:
Gamma +1
10p white balance level 1, 2 and 3: all 0

For BT1886 gamma:
Gamma 0
10p white balance: level 1 all +6, level 2 all +3, level 3 all +1.

(Level 4 to 10: minor corrections. Not worth mentioning)
Edited by turboman123 - 12/13/12 at 9:40pm
post #8006 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Like brighter bulbs in the theater for 3D, its brighter to compensate for the glasses. Set it to what's comfortable for you in your environment though.


RicoFB - glad those are working for your panel. You'll almost definitely need some additional tweaks on Contrast and such and up to you if you feel the want to play around with turning the extras on or off.

What settings are those? All I saw we're your standard settings.
Thanks
post #8007 of 16125
See orginal post #7869

I got a call from Samsung service company in Santa Clara (about 30 minutes from my home). They informed me that they had ordered the parts and that they would contact me when the parts arrive to come out and fix the TV. They estimated the parts would received in 5 business days. I asked if they needed to come out first to verify what they were ordering was for the correct problem, and the tech indicated that wasn't necessary. I find that interesting. I did provide a pretty detailed description of the symptons - power cycling on/off, only Logo appearing, no video. Unless this is a common problem, or they simply order all new circuit boards, I was impressed that they didn't want to investigate - although that would probably cost them to come out, and since the set is under warrantly, they can probably can just order everything without worry of getting Samsung to reimburse them.
post #8008 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

For my exchange (for the D6900) I was offered a ES6600.....I refused.
I asked for a ES8000, both have ultra-clear panels and top features/options.
Samsung called back and offered a ES7100...I took the offer.
I believe I could have held out for/ negoitated the ES8000 but didn't want to wait for weeks....

Just feel lucky they were willing to help you out. I'm both depressed and astonished that I keep reading these stories of how people seem to get taken care of by Samsung and yet I was totally treated (and spoken to) like dirt.

Glad to hear you've got a new set coming.
post #8009 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

this seems like a hidden gem to the brave few. so was anyone brave enough to try this out and confirm it?

What I want to know is if it's literally just a few screws to loosen, then why, why, why can't a tech just come to the house and do it? It would take him what? 15-20 minutes? And my warranty wouldn't be voided since it was being done by a tech. Seriously. Why can't a tech come out and do this for me? Isn't their job to repair issue? So if this is a problem, and all it takes is a few turns of a screwdriver, isn't that exactly what the tech is for?

Also - why is Samsung tightening these screws so tight that it makes all the sets have clouding? That image that was posted had the same exact V clouding that mine has - so it's got to be the same screws near the place where the stand screws in that was mentioned. It must be affecting the screen and causing light bleeding because they're on so tight. Why on Earth is Samsung doing this? They are sabotaging their own sets for crying out loud. How many sets must be returned within the store's return policy each year because of clouding? My girlfriend and I returned 4 last year and ended up with a plasma - why? Clouding - my girlfriend was amazed how bad the clouding and flashlighting was on the sets we tried last year.

All because a few screws are over-tightened at the factory. And my girlfriend would freak out if she knew I was trying this, so there's no way I'm going to take apart the set. That's what a tech is for.
post #8010 of 16125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Your article is the best one for info so far. I'm safe, I use NAT smile.gif... for now

Yeah it seems according to the article if your internet is going trough a router before it hits your tv you're safe (for now).
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