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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 268

post #8011 of 16128
One thing I've been noticing lately with my set - I'm always trying to tweak things as much as I can, trying to do my best to hide the awful clouding. I'm using the CE-dimming workaround, plus dynamic contrast is on low, plus black tone is on low, all to try and hide the clouding. The other night I dropped the backlighting down a couple more notches (it was already as low as I wanted to go really), and I dropped brightness down another 5 or 6 notches, which makes quite a difference in image around the point I'm at using the CE-dimming fix.

It did seem to help a bit with clouding - not hidden by any means, just a little bit harder to see. I then decided to pop in my WOW disc again and see what my new settings look like with the WOW tests. Awful! Crushing blacks quite a bit, with just a few drops of the brightness and a small tweak to the offsets I was really hurting the image. Turning off black tone and dynamic contrast didn't seem to make any big difference. So I set it back up again so the tests looked just right.

Now the clouding is just that much more noticeable again. The bottom line is if my set is adjusted the way it should be according to the WOW disc, I have to live with the clouding. I think many owners of these sets probably drop their backlighting and brightness down lower than they really want to or should have to, just to help hide screen deficiencies. But in the end, if I wanted a dull, dim image, I could have stuck with a plasma. I wanted the LCD because I wanted a bright, crisp image. Yet I'm hurting it and dimming the set and crushing blacks just to hide screen flaws. In the end, I think I'll keep the set according to what the WOW disc says. It makes no sense to throw off everything and wreck the blacks and have a dull dim image just to avoid clouding. Of course every time I see the clouding I think immediately I should dim everything to hide it more. It's too bad owners of these sets have to make these decisions.
post #8012 of 16128
hello, I'm going crazy.
I changed four 65 ES8000, all with clouting and vertical banding excessive.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xdtipyrbgxgznb6/UZCjmq30qO/samsung%2065%20es%208000

someone has a good 65?
I begin to think that they are all bad.
thanks
Edited by rx360 - 12/14/12 at 4:41am
post #8013 of 16128
I had a 65", briefly. Like your screen shots, mine had the same banding problem. It drove me crazy, too. I opted for the 60" model instead, and there is no banding at all. From what I read here on the forum, the 60" version uses a panel made by Sharp. IMO, there is a night and day difference between the two TV's. The 60" has much improved screen uniformity and better off-axis viewing. Obviously, the screen is a bit smaller, but the 60" has a noticeably thinner bezel than the 65", so the difference is not as dramatic as you might think.
post #8014 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx360 View Post

hello, I'm going crazy.
I changed four 65 ES8000, all with clouting and vertical banding excessive.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xdtipyrbgxgznb6/UZCjmq30qO/samsung%2065%20es%208000
someone has a good 65?
I begin to think that they are all bad.
thanks

It's not that the sets you are getting are bad, What you are experiencing is inherent to edge lit led TVs. The 65" model's seem to have it the worse. Please see this article:

http://asia.cnet.com/is-tv-brightness-uniformity-a-problem-62213336.htm

IMO bad uniformity is worse than anything. Forget about watching dark movies or letterbox material. If you are looking for something with good uniformity, consider a Full array LED such as the XBR 900 series or the Sharp Elite. Otherwise a plasma will give you 100% perfect brightness uniformity.

Hope this helps you out man, Good luck!

-Frost
post #8015 of 16128
I know this is not in current flow of conversation....I have an old Onkyo receiver with optical for the best audio,My sound keeps cutting out. I was wondering if you thought the Yamaha RX-V671 would be a good mid range receiver. I want a good on screen set up. Does this receiver do a good job of video processing? By the way, I do have the Samsung un55es8000 TV. Thanks in advance for your help.
post #8016 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Movie mode: further calibration optimization
I have been hesitating between Standard picture mode, and Movie. I really dislike flashlighting/clouding so the dimming in Standard mode in dark scenes helps to hide the clouding. But then darks get crushed which I also dislike.
So following is an attempt to improve move mode to address those problems. I used a new Display3PRO meter which should be quite accurate.
First task is to increase display contrast (not the same as contrast setting). For a given max peak white, if I have higher display contrast, then I can reduce backlight which reduces flashlighting/clouding.
My settings are for a half dark room with peak white around 120cd/m2.
For a given backlight setting, I can increase peak white by increasing contrast setting. In movie mode, I could go up as high as contrast=100 without RGB output hitting a limit, causing clipping as they say. I could also bump up white balance gain to increase peak white without causing clipping. In the end that gave me a peak white of 115cd/m2 with a backlight of 5.
I lowered brightness setting (which influences minimum black) until it just reached a minimum. I did not reduce brightness further because that would crush above black. Brightness setting was then 45 or 46.
With gamma set at +1, I then got almost a constant gamma at 2.22.
There is also a new gamma target called BT1886 which I understand was adopted as a new standard. See discussion here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409045/how-power-law-gamma-calibration-can-lead-to-crushed-blacks
BT1886 has the effect that gamma is lowered in dark scenes. This means that darks are a bit brighter than a constant gamma. Visually, I think it helps against flashlighting/clouding because it "lifts up" a dark scene so that flashlighting/clouding becomes less apparent.
Following are calibration results with constant gamma and BT1886 gamma. I achieved the BT1886 target by increasing the setting for 10p white balance at level 1, 2 and 3.
CalibrationSummaryDetailed.pdf 2365k .pdf file
constant.jpg 60k .jpg file
bt1886.jpg 61k .jpg file
BT1886 gamma at 5% and 10% is not quite smooth. A 20p white balance control would help there.
(Note: PRE=BT1886 and POST=constant gamma)
Following is colour calibration. The ES8000 has a very good linearity for different saturation levels.
AdvancedColorManagementReport.pdf 2644k .pdf file
My settings for Movie are then:
Warm2
Backlight 5
Contrast 100
Brightness 45
Sharpness 20
All special picture modes and motion modes Off
White balance offset 25, 25, 22
gain 38, 50, 26
Custom Color Space:
R 48, 3, 0
G 4,47,3
B 0, 5, 47
Y 52, 47, 4
C 3,47,50
M 44, 5, 45
For constant gamma:
Gamma +1
10p white balance level 1, 2 and 3: all 0
For BT1886 gamma:
Gamma 0
10p white balance: level 1 all +6, level 2 all +3, level 3 all +1.
(Level 4 to 10: minor corrections. Not worth mentioning)

Turbo... thanks for sharing, man!
post #8017 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx360 View Post

hello, I'm going crazy.
I changed four 65 ES8000, all with clouting and vertical banding excessive.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xdtipyrbgxgznb6/UZCjmq30qO/samsung%2065%20es%208000
someone has a good 65?
I begin to think that they are all bad.
thanks

I have a good one. It took a panel replacement to get it. I suppose I won the so called lottery.
post #8018 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlingma1 View Post

See orginal post #7869
I got a call from Samsung service company in Santa Clara (about 30 minutes from my home). They informed me that they had ordered the parts and that they would contact me when the parts arrive to come out and fix the TV. They estimated the parts would received in 5 business days. I asked if they needed to come out first to verify what they were ordering was for the correct problem, and the tech indicated that wasn't necessary. I find that interesting. I did provide a pretty detailed description of the symptons - power cycling on/off, only Logo appearing, no video. Unless this is a common problem, or they simply order all new circuit boards, I was impressed that they didn't want to investigate - although that would probably cost them to come out, and since the set is under warrantly, they can probably can just order everything without worry of getting Samsung to reimburse them.

Thanks for the update. That's so weird.
post #8019 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagz View Post

What settings are those? All I saw we're your standard settings.
Thanks

I'm not sure which he used, but I have 3 sets of setting in my post, Movie, Standard and Standard with adjustments for diminishing CE Dimming.
post #8020 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

It's not that the sets you are getting are bad, What you are experiencing is inherent to edge lit led TVs. The 65" model's seem to have it the worse. Please see this article:
http://asia.cnet.com/is-tv-brightness-uniformity-a-problem-62213336.htm
IMO bad uniformity is worse than anything. Forget about watching dark movies or letterbox material. If you are looking for something with good uniformity, consider a Full array LED such as the XBR 900 series or the Sharp Elite. Otherwise a plasma will give you 100% perfect brightness uniformity.
Hope this helps you out man, Good luck!
-Frost

Yeah if someone is insisting on a 65", I personally wouldn't get this TV. There are a few lucky ones here though. Maybe it's because I have the 60" Sharp panel, but I have no issues at all with letterbox material. Looks great. Are we sure the panels out of Mexico are from Sharp though?
Edited by Garnoch - 12/14/12 at 8:10am
post #8021 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Yeah if someone is insisting on a 65", I personally wouldn't get this TV. There are a few lucky ones here though. Maybe it's because I have the 60" Sharp panel, but I have no issues at all with letterbox material. Looks great. Are we sure the panels out of Mexico are from Sharp though?

The es8000 I tested was the 60 inch model. IMO it still had pretty bad uniformity, especially when looking at slides. My test unit had the flash lighting in all 4 corners as well as the V shaped cloud in the bottom middle when displaying letterbox bars in a dark room. Displaying a full black slide showed more noticeable clouding all over the screen. This was done in a dark room. Also, on a full black screen it looked bluish compared to the Plasma's and full array's. Im guessing that is because there is so much light coming through the screen.

BTW, I never knew clouds could look like V's. I have to say it was the first time I ever saw a V shaped cloud, including the sky!biggrin.gif
Edited by Bolt989 - 12/14/12 at 8:24am
post #8022 of 16128
I'm definitely not saying I don't see any clouding or flashlighting. Mine is fairly minimal though and if I'm watching letterbox, I never notice anything. It honestly is darker than the Panny plasma I use at work. The plasma is more uniform though.
post #8023 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboman123 View Post

Dear Mr.Bolt989
Thanks for your good info. I wanted to impress my new girlfriend so wanted to buy this flat panel you spoke so highly about. Went to all the shops in town to ask for a Samsung VT50. But all the salespeople looked at me as if I was a moron.
One guy mentioned that in Europe the VT50 had a low light output, good enough to use as a night light in a baby room. He asked whether I wanted to make babies, as he was eying my new girlfriend (she is a hottie).
So I guess they don't have this new model yet in the shops. Then I remembered from the forum threads that most professionals who talk about VT50 make sure to mention they had a Kuro before. So I asked for a Kuro but the salespeople started laughing.
Now my new girlfriend also thinks I am a moron and said she would phone me .... sometime. Which means never. Damn it, and she was hot.
So you have to help me. Please Sir!

OUTSTANDING young man!!!!

VT50 = Night light in Baby's room? smile.gif

Let's hope the Plasma posters don't get a hold of this one.

Bolt989 is pretty good, though. He's passionate about his TV as many others are here on this forum.
post #8024 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

OUTSTANDING young man!!!!
VT50 = Night light in Baby's room? smile.gif
Let's hope the Plasma posters don't get a hold of this one.
Bolt989 is pretty good, though. He's passionate about his TV as many others are here on this forum.

LOL, I got a good laugh from that too! He is right, the euro version of the VT50 has a capped light output. The NA version does not and gets much brighter. I can get 43 ftl. of peak light output once calibrated in the ISF Day mode out of a VT50 which is plenty bright enough and where a calibrated picture should be at for day time viewing. So I would hardly call the VT50 (NA Version) a baby night light. Unlike some here, I can put some objectivity to what is said, and can say 43 ftl. is far far from a night light wink.gif

Please don't slam me for posting about Plasma here, I am just making comments on what other people are saying smile.gif
Edited by Bolt989 - 12/14/12 at 8:47am
post #8025 of 16128
That's why we put up with you Bolt - because you could get a laugh out of that too. smile.gif
post #8026 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

LOL, I got a good laugh from that too! He is right, the euro version of the VT50 has a capped light output. The NA version does not and gets much brighter. I can get 43 ftl. of peak light output once calibrated in the ISF Day mode out of a VT50 which is plenty bright enough and where a calibrated picture should be at for day time viewing. So I would hardly call the VT50 (NA Version) a baby night light. Unlike some here, I can put some objectivity to what is said, and can say 43 ftl. is far far from a night light wink.gif
Please don't slam me for posting about Plasma here, I am just making comments on what other people are saying smile.gif

Might get one for the top of the staircase, it would heat the house at night too though the buzzing would keep me awake wink.gif
post #8027 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

Might get one for the top of the staircase, it would heat the house at night too though the buzzing would keep me awake wink.gif

You might just notice how Superior the picture quality is and move it into your HT area replacing your edge lit LED. So I would recommend a space heater for your stairway biggrin.gif
post #8028 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx360 View Post

hello, I'm going crazy.
I changed four 65 ES8000, all with clouting and vertical banding excessive.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xdtipyrbgxgznb6/UZCjmq30qO/samsung%2065%20es%208000
someone has a good 65?
I begin to think that they are all bad.
thanks

From my experience, clouding will go away - or get much better at least - in time. The vertical banding will stay the same, which is VERY annoying while watching football for example.

Anyway, stop thinking about it and you will most likely enjoy your set. Movies are great with this TV!

I decided to keep it until a 70" 4K OLED will be available at reasonable price, probably many years to come.

EDIT: I've just seen your pictures. Something is terribly wrong with your TV. I used to have some slight banding which is now almost gone but your panel has huge clouding. You should get that panel replaced!
Edited by got3nks - 12/14/12 at 10:33am
post #8029 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

You might just notice how Superior the picture quality is and move it into your HT area replacing your edge lit LED. So I would recommend a space heater for your stairway biggrin.gif

Maybe, just maybe tongue.gif
post #8030 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

You might just notice how Superior the picture quality is and move it into your HT area replacing your edge lit LED. So I would recommend a space heater for your stairway biggrin.gif

That was very good smile.gif
post #8031 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx360 View Post

hello, I'm going crazy.
I changed four 65 ES8000, all with clouting and vertical banding excessive.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xdtipyrbgxgznb6/UZCjmq30qO/samsung%2065%20es%208000
someone has a good 65?
I begin to think that they are all bad.
thanks

Those panels look shockingly bad. Wow. I'm amazed that people are willing to spend so much on these lousy larger panels. Great if you get a good one - but if you have to buy 6 or 7 to find a "good" one, then there's a serious problem. My girlfriend and I went through 4 Samsung LCDs last year and ended up with a plasma because the clouding and flashlighting was unacceptable. This year my Es7500 is also unacceptable but I had no option of returning it so I'm stuck. Sorry you're having such a difficult time.

Seriously, at least with my 46" 7500 I spent around $1,800. I can't imagine spending twice that for a 60' or 65" just to end up with a screen that's as bad as my 46" or even much worse.
post #8032 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

It's not that the sets you are getting are bad, What you are experiencing is inherent to edge lit led TVs. The 65" model's seem to have it the worse. Please see this article:
http://asia.cnet.com/is-tv-brightness-uniformity-a-problem-62213336.htm
IMO bad uniformity is worse than anything. Forget about watching dark movies or letterbox material. If you are looking for something with good uniformity, consider a Full array LED such as the XBR 900 series or the Sharp Elite. Otherwise a plasma will give you 100% perfect brightness uniformity.
Hope this helps you out man, Good luck!
-Frost

Inherent or not, those panels look bad. I don't care if it's due to the lousy edge-lit tech that we have Samsung to thank for, or the lack of quality control - bottom line is for the price, these clouding and banding issues make the panels look bad, and if this was the tradeoff for a thin, sexy panel - then I think they should have just scrapped these edge-lit sets and kept things as they were. My girlfriend's folks' 3-year old Vizio is back-lit, yet it doesn't look that thick at all to me. Sure it won't hang on the wall so well, but who cares? What good is hanging these sets if the panels are going to look like this. Plus, who can hang these panels anyways since then you're locked into one viewing position due to the lousy off-angle viewing. Also, compared to my old CRT, that back-lit Vizio looks ultra-thin. That sub-$500 Vizio my girlfriend's folks' bought 3 years ago is superior in several ways to these "flagship" sets by Samsung. What good is a thin panel with virtually no bezel if we have to put up with issues like this? This edge-lit tech never should have seen the light of day. Clearly they cannot be manufactured consistently with the quality that is expected of a decent panel.
post #8033 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

The es8000 I tested was the 60 inch model. IMO it still had pretty bad uniformity, especially when looking at slides. My test unit had the flash lighting in all 4 corners as well as the V shaped cloud in the bottom middle when displaying letterbox bars in a dark room. Displaying a full black slide showed more noticeable clouding all over the screen. This was done in a dark room. Also, on a full black screen it looked bluish compared to the Plasma's and full array's. Im guessing that is because there is so much light coming through the screen.
BTW, I never knew clouds could look like V's. I have to say it was the first time I ever saw a V shaped cloud, including the sky!biggrin.gif

Yup, on mine, you can see it's actually 2 different blotches that are lengthwise, creating almost a perfect V, located perfectly centered at the bottom of the panel, just like the other poster's pictures.
post #8034 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

I'm definitely not saying I don't see any clouding or flashlighting. Mine is fairly minimal though and if I'm watching letterbox, I never notice anything. It honestly is darker than the Panny plasma I use at work. The plasma is more uniform though.

My clouding, especially the "V" that is sometimes visible, hides itself when there is some contrast going on. On a letterbox film, if the whole image is dark, that's when I can really see the clouding at the bottom - since about 80% of the clouding is on the letterbox area of those type of films - about 20% carries over onto the picture itself. But if there is some bright object near the bottom of the image, or if the bottom of the image is bright overall, then the clouding seems to hide itself.
post #8035 of 16128
Does Bolt think that all panels look like those shocking pictures?
post #8036 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by got3nks View Post

From my experience, clouding will go away - or get much better at least - in time. The vertical banding will stay the same, which is VERY annoying while watching football for example.
Anyway, stop thinking about it and you will most likely enjoy your set. Movies are great with this TV!
I decided to keep it until a 70" 4K OLED will be available at reasonable price, probably many years to come.
EDIT: I've just seen your pictures. Something is terribly wrong with your TV. I used to have some slight banding which is now almost gone but your panel has huge clouding. You should get that panel replaced!

I think it's hit or miss if clouding will go away. Mine has not diminished even slightly in several months of use. It's just as it was out of the box. Others have reported it improving to some degree. It may be that over time possibly the over-tightened screws relax against the panel somewhat? Just a guess, but mine hasn't improved, so I don't think people should let their return policy expire thinking it will go away over time - it's a gamble.
post #8037 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

Does Bolt think that all panels look like those shocking pictures?

That would certainly be the wrong impression. Why, there must be at least a good 5-10% of those sets that don't look like that. tongue.gif
post #8038 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Inherent or not, those panels look bad. I don't care if it's due to the lousy edge-lit tech that we have Samsung to thank for, or the lack of quality control - bottom line is for the price, these clouding and banding issues make the panels look bad, and if this was the tradeoff for a thin, sexy panel - then I think they should have just scrapped these edge-lit sets and kept things as they were. My girlfriend's folks' 3-year old Vizio is back-lit, yet it doesn't look that thick at all to me. Sure it won't hang on the wall so well, but who cares? What good is hanging these sets if the panels are going to look like this. Plus, who can hang these panels anyways since then you're locked into one viewing position due to the lousy off-angle viewing. Also, compared to my old CRT, that back-lit Vizio looks ultra-thin. That sub-$500 Vizio my girlfriend's folks' bought 3 years ago is superior in several ways to these "flagship" sets by Samsung. What good is a thin panel with virtually no bezel if we have to put up with issues like this? This edge-lit tech never should have seen the light of day. Clearly they cannot be manufactured consistently with the quality that is expected of a decent panel.

you are absolutely correct, that's just it, they want to give you a thinner panel, but the thinner you go its harder to control things like banding/clouding. They are to worried about esthetics rather than quality control. The 60" set I tested was a complete joke as far as uniformity is concerned.
post #8039 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

That would certainly be the wrong impression. Why, there must be at least a good 5-10% of those sets that don't look like that. tongue.gif

biggrin.gif Or only 5-10% that do look like that to be more accurate, probably wink.gif
post #8040 of 16128
Quote:
Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

Does Bolt think that all panels look like those shocking pictures?

I do understand that some panels can be worse than others. But after owning a Plasma for most of my more critical reference viewing, all Edge lit displays IMO are very poor in comparison to a perfect uniform Plasma. It is a problem with the technology itself, rather it be really bad on panel A and passable on panel B. Brightness uniformity is a issue with Edge lit LED sets, period..
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