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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 319

post #9541 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

Here are some pics of the Dec 2012 build MH02.
The good, bad the the ugly.
Good.... couldn't have asked for better blacks and lack of severe flashlighting.....

In a totally dark room....

From Looper....

Here is the bad.... still some vertical banding present....


The ugly.....

Granted, I don't think the vertical banding is nearly as severe as I've seen on many ES8000s and HX950s, but still present on the Dec. builds. It is really noticeable on panning shots with solid backgrounds such as the scene from Looper when Bruce Willis' character is in Jeff Daniels characters place and there are two really fast panning shots of Willis shooting someone coming down a stairway. Overall, very pleased with the set though, and even dusted off the old PS3 and hooked that up as well to the Sammy.

Yep - - light banding. We just watched the same movie Friday night (Looper - Gordon Jason Levitt has become a real star - also great in "Killshot" as Richie. Diane Lane also in that movie - still hot after all these years. And Bruce Willis can still act - very entertaining movie.)

There were a couple scenes where the banding was visible to me but I know what to look for. Your settings can affect the banding - - to a minimal extent. I strictly use "Movie" settings for all Bluray and most movies via Directv and streaming - but I also use "Standard" for CNN or channels where the light is constant and dimming doesn't come as much into play - - like sports. Now I know why Samsung has the dimming feature - - to block any clouding or flashlighting! It's kind of funny when you switch from "Standard" to "Movie" and all of a sudden, the two black suits that were on the screen, one of them turns out to be a dark brown, faded checkered coat!

Experiment with the settings - - they can mitigate some of the banding - - at least that's what I've found out. "Brightness" to be kept around 45 - - although I've been able to move it down to 42 and clouding on anamorphic material is virtually gone. Of course, if you have a professional calibration - - you can go with those settings if they work for your eyes or any of the other settings on this forum if they help.
post #9542 of 16126
For those of you who may be interested, the banding that occurs on and LED/LCD backlit television comes from one of the layers of film uses to diffuse the backlight on the edges, and the darker lines you see are areas of higher or lower stress inherent in the film when the film was manufactured. I was involved with the development of a "diffuser film" made from polycarbonate from a major plastics manufacturer, and we sell film to Samsung, as do several other plastics manufacturers-multiple suppliers for the same product in case one has issues supplying Samsung.
There can be as many as six or seven layers of film in a LED/LCD array. I believe the" diffuser layer" is the layer causing the banding. The diffuser film spreads the backlight across the entire width of the film, instead of just lighting the area near the LED's, and on the 65" model, you can see where multiple pieces of diffuser film have been glued together to make the entire array. From the 60" and below samples of TV's I have seen at retailers, they look like 1 complete piece of film across the width of the screen-no gluing or splicing pieces together to get the screen width. No one can apparently make a 65" wide piece of diffuser film-the film is extruded on a calendaring line, and width is limited by the die and width of the calendaring rolls, which put the diffuser texture on the film. At our plant, I know we are not capable of making making greater than 60" wide diffuser film.
The narrower diffuser film used in 60" and below sets is easier to manufacture without stress lines (Banding), and on my first 65" front panel, there was a very clear demarcation line right down the middle of the set, one side being 2 or three shades darker than the section it was attached to. You can also see where the film is sliced horizontally along the width using a zig zag pattern. Wouldn't it be about right for me to have been involved with the development of film that is now biting me in the a$$ with my present TV?

post #9543 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Very good point - - Garnoch and I have had running Emails about this. I also have Directv and there are differences between your Bluray player and your cable/satellite/media player.
I know you're suppose to calibrate the "panel" - - but with multiple sources for content - - "one shoe does not fit all." Like you said, there are subtle differences and adjusting your picture for your source does help the viewing experience.
It would be nice if Samsung allowed us to have multiple settings and for a way to save and invoke them. Why not a program that could also print your settings from your TV? That would be a helpful application.

And Jestered's way of doing it was great info!
post #9544 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

Here are some pics of the Dec 2012 build MH02.
The good, bad the the ugly.
Good.... couldn't have asked for better blacks and lack of severe flashlighting.....

In a totally dark room....

From Looper....

Here is the bad.... still some vertical banding present....


The ugly.....

Granted, I don't think the vertical banding is nearly as severe as I've seen on many ES8000s and HX950s, but still present on the Dec. builds. It is really noticeable on panning shots with solid backgrounds such as the scene from Looper when Bruce Willis' character is in Jeff Daniels characters place and there are two really fast panning shots of Willis shooting someone coming down a stairway. Overall, very pleased with the set though, and even dusted off the old PS3 and hooked that up as well to the Sammy.

That's the "best" banding I've seen on a 65" and the black are amazing! Thanks for sharing!
post #9545 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruegway View Post

For those of you who may be interested, the banding that occurs on and LED/LCD backlit television comes from one of the layers of film uses to diffuse the backlight on the edges, and the darker lines you see are areas of higher or lower stress inherent in the film when the film was manufactured. I was involved with the development of a "diffuser film" made from polycarbonate from a major plastics manufacturer, and we sell film to Samsung, as do several other plastics manufacturers-multiple suppliers for the same product in case one has issues supplying Samsung.
There can be as many as six or seven layers of film in a LED/LCD array. I believe the" diffuser layer" is the layer causing the banding. The diffuser film spreads the backlight across the entire width of the film, instead of just lighting the area near the LED's, and on the 65" model, you can see where multiple pieces of diffuser film have been glued together to make the entire array. From the 60" and below samples of TV's I have seen at retailers, they look like 1 complete piece of film across the width of the screen-no gluing or splicing pieces together to get the screen width. No one can apparently make a 65" wide piece of diffuser film-the film is extruded on a calendaring line, and width is limited by the die and width of the calendaring rolls, which put the diffuser texture on the film. At our plant, I know we are not capable of making making greater than 60" wide diffuser film.
The narrower diffuser film used in 60" and below sets is easier to manufacture without stress lines (Banding), and on my first 65" front panel, there was a very clear demarcation line right down the middle of the set, one side being 2 or three shades darker than the section it was attached to. You can also see where the film is sliced horizontally along the width using a zig zag pattern. Wouldn't it be about right for me to have been involved with the development of film that is now biting me in the a$$ with my present TV?

Very interesting what you've done and really really great info - I'll add a link to your post in the Guide. Thanks, man.
post #9546 of 16126
Cmay94172- are you keeping the 65"? Are those factory setting?
post #9547 of 16126
A good diffuser film in an LED/LCD array will actually increase the brightness of the LED's by 3-5%. What this means, is you can lower your power consumption to get the same amount of light output--really important on laptop screens where battery power runs the display. Less battery power you have to use to light the display, the longer the battery lasts until it needs a recharge.
Same thing with a television-you lower the amount of power necessary to light the display, and you can get Eco star, etc. benefits from the government, etc, and you can show everyone just how little power your display needs to run. Green people actually pay attention to that sort of thing. A big selling point, and another reason plasma tv's are on the way out-to high a power consumption--they are not green friendly.
post #9548 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

Here are some pics of the Dec 2012 build MH02.
The good, bad the the ugly.
Good.... couldn't have asked for better blacks and lack of severe flashlighting.....



In a totally dark room....

From Looper....

Here is the bad.... still some vertical banding present....


The ugly.....

Granted, I don't think the vertical banding is nearly as severe as I've seen on many ES8000s and HX950s, but still present on the Dec. builds. It is really noticeable on panning shots with solid backgrounds such as the scene from Looper when Bruce Willis' character is in Jeff Daniels characters place and there are two really fast panning shots of Willis shooting someone coming down a stairway. Overall, very pleased with the set though, and even dusted off the old PS3 and hooked that up as well to the Sammy.

Blacks look great. Is that std or movie mode?
post #9549 of 16126
I think people with the good 65s are really doing all the people with bad ones a service by letting them see what they should have got, what they might still be able to get, or at the very least the 'as good as it gets' view.

Thanks to you. You represent the ideal type of help people come here to get.
post #9550 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruegway View Post

For those of you who may be interested, the banding that occurs on and LED/LCD backlit television comes from one of the layers of film uses to diffuse the backlight on the edges, and the darker lines you see are areas of higher or lower stress inherent in the film when the film was manufactured. I was involved with the development of a "diffuser film" made from polycarbonate from a major plastics manufacturer, and we sell film to Samsung, as do several other plastics manufacturers-multiple suppliers for the same product in case one has issues supplying Samsung.
There can be as many as six or seven layers of film in a LED/LCD array. I believe the" diffuser layer" is the layer causing the banding. The diffuser film spreads the backlight across the entire width of the film, instead of just lighting the area near the LED's, and on the 65" model, you can see where multiple pieces of diffuser film have been glued together to make the entire array. From the 60" and below samples of TV's I have seen at retailers, they look like 1 complete piece of film across the width of the screen-no gluing or splicing pieces together to get the screen width. No one can apparently make a 65" wide piece of diffuser film-the film is extruded on a calendaring line, and width is limited by the die and width of the calendaring rolls, which put the diffuser texture on the film. At our plant, I know we are not capable of making making greater than 60" wide diffuser film.
The narrower diffuser film used in 60" and below sets is easier to manufacture without stress lines (Banding), and on my first 65" front panel, there was a very clear demarcation line right down the middle of the set, one side being 2 or three shades darker than the section it was attached to. You can also see where the film is sliced horizontally along the width using a zig zag pattern. Wouldn't it be about right for me to have been involved with the development of film that is now biting me in the a$$ with my present TV?

So this means that, with the current limitation on the die, all panels greater than 60" will always be subjected to banding, including the 75ES9000 and other Edge-lit panels?
So the only option is to go down to a 60" ..for now.
post #9551 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruegway View Post

For those of you who may be interested, the banding that occurs on and LED/LCD backlit television comes from one of the layers of film uses to diffuse the backlight on the edges, and the darker lines you see are areas of higher or lower stress inherent in the film when the film was manufactured. I was involved with the development of a "diffuser film" made from polycarbonate from a major plastics manufacturer, and we sell film to Samsung, as do several other plastics manufacturers-multiple suppliers for the same product in case one has issues supplying Samsung.
There can be as many as six or seven layers of film in a LED/LCD array. I believe the" diffuser layer" is the layer causing the banding. The diffuser film spreads the backlight across the entire width of the film, instead of just lighting the area near the LED's, and on the 65" model, you can see where multiple pieces of diffuser film have been glued together to make the entire array. From the 60" and below samples of TV's I have seen at retailers, they look like 1 complete piece of film across the width of the screen-no gluing or splicing pieces together to get the screen width. No one can apparently make a 65" wide piece of diffuser film-the film is extruded on a calendaring line, and width is limited by the die and width of the calendaring rolls, which put the diffuser texture on the film. At our plant, I know we are not capable of making making greater than 60" wide diffuser film.
The narrower diffuser film used in 60" and below sets is easier to manufacture without stress lines (Banding), and on my first 65" front panel, there was a very clear demarcation line right down the middle of the set, one side being 2 or three shades darker than the section it was attached to. You can also see where the film is sliced horizontally along the width using a zig zag pattern. Wouldn't it be about right for me to have been involved with the development of film that is now biting me in the a$$ with my present TV?

Thank you for the informative post.
post #9552 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needis View Post

Cmay94172- are you keeping the 65"? Are those factory setting?

Needis, those pics were taken using turbos movie settings. I do need to note that I occasionally do see minor flashlighting including the infamous "v" when viewing 3d when the backlight is at 15 and a scene like the credits roll.

Yes, I do plan on keeping this set as I really dont think its possible to get another with any significant decrease in banding let alone one with virtually no clouding, flashlighting or dead pixels.

That being said, the banding still annoys me, but not as much as some of the limitations of my 65VT50s, so I'm going to stick with the Sammy.

Also... As many of you know, banding is more visible when looking at a screenshot compared to sitting in front of the tv itself, and I'd say the banding is really only problematic on panning shots with solid backgrounds. I honestly didn't know the banding on that white shot was as bad as that until I looked at the photo.
post #9553 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by sympathetik View Post

So this means that, with the current limitation on the die, all panels greater than 60" will always be subjected to banding, including the 75ES9000 and other Edge-lit panels?
So the only option is to go down to a 60" ..for now.

I considered the Sony 65 Hx950 but after researching and looking at screenshots, vertical banding is also present and problematic on many of those with the main difference being Sammy banding is wider bands whereas the Sony is thinner but more numerous. I wasn't about to pay 2000 more for a tv with the same type of Limitations bandwise.
post #9554 of 16126
I think the as good as it gets theme applys here as even their most recent batch still exhibit it, just not as severe. At least clouding and flashlighting seems to be resolved.
post #9555 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

That's the "best" banding I've seen on a 65" and the black are amazing! Thanks for sharing!

My 65" (Oct Mex) seems to display banding of a degree quite similar to Cmay94172's pics. If you're not looking for it, it really isn't obvious. Noone at my house has ever commented on it., the TV gets rave reviews from all here.

But thnx to you guys, I'm now sensitized to banding. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

Seriously, it's not often that I even become aware of it. I was looking for it before and now when it occurs I just don't pay it any mind.
post #9556 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

My 65" (Oct Mex) seems to display banding of a degree quite similar to Cmay94172's pics. If you're not looking for it, it really isn't obvious. Noone at my house has ever commented on it., the TV gets rave reviews from all here.
But thnx to you guys, I'm now sensitized to banding. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
Seriously, it's not often that I even become aware of it. I was looking for it before and now when it occurs I just don't pay it any mind.

I can't see it on mine and I'm glad of that. And I'm not about to start looking for it either. And how 'bout them Packers last night huh? biggrin.gif
post #9557 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by sympathetik View Post

So this means that, with the current limitation on the die, all panels greater than 60" will always be subjected to banding, including the 75ES9000 and other Edge-lit panels?
So the only option is to go down to a 60" ..for now.

I'm only familiar with our film. I can't speak for other companies that send film to Samsung. I know that we are one of the suppliers, and I know we cannot make over a certain width. Both my original panel, and my replacement had the film spliced right down the center of the screen. That tells me that no one can make a 1 piece diffuser film for 65" televisions. The 60" and below may be multiple pieces, but apparently something in the manufacturing process does not bring out the banding like the 65".
post #9558 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

My 65" (Oct Mex) seems to display banding of a degree quite similar to Cmay94172's pics. If you're not looking for it, it really isn't obvious. Noone at my house has ever commented on it., the TV gets rave reviews from all here.
But thnx to you guys, I'm now sensitized to banding. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
Seriously, it's not often that I even become aware of it. I was looking for it before and now when it occurs I just don't pay it any mind.
Ha! That's funny - you're welcome. I guess like many have said... We really shouldn't be looking for the problems
Edited by Garnoch - 1/6/13 at 4:29pm
post #9559 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebignewt View Post

I can't see it on mine and I'm glad of that. And I'm not about to start looking for it either. And how 'bout them Packers last night huh? biggrin.gif

Yeah the Wildcard teams have been getting spanked so far! Hopefully that changes and Seattle gets a win now

As far as the banding issues on the 65"...the main concern about banding is you will never forget that its there. No matter how moderate or severe. I tried for almost a year with a D8000 to get used to it, and it wasn't even what you would call severe banding. But over time it seems to get worse because you start to look for it and you're thinking about it from time to time. You might say, oh that's not too bad I can get used to that, and then a weeks later you will see it again somewhere and think "That's horrible!". Yeah it's inherent to the technology to some degree, but if you think you can get a better panel then exchange it or go for something smaller like a 55" or 60"
post #9560 of 16126
C'mon my 65" brothers...return for a 60" and enjoy this great tv. The 60" is not a huge it big step down.
post #9561 of 16126
Long time lurker, first time poster.

Trying to find myself a 50ish high end LCD TV. The ES8000, 7500 and 7100 are all potentially on the list, but i have a couple questions for the thread....

What else should I be considering in the LED/LCD camps? I am not fussy about who make it.

Alos, recently it seems that there are many complaints about Samsung quality and service. I haven't gone through all the posts here to get a full view, but if looking at 65" it seems you need to be prepared to exchange a few times and suffer at the hands of Samsung's decisions? This is worrisome.
post #9562 of 16126
Agreed, once you see it, you never forget. I can live with some banding, but when it goes and effects others who watch the television, without you cuing them to the issue, then I feel there is definitely an issue that Samsung needs to address. My problem is my wife bought this set for me, and she did not buy the brand I told her I was interested in. Great wife, buying me a television, but she got talked out of the purchase of the brand I had mentioned, by the salesperson. It was a great present, up until I asked her what those dark vertical lines were, that were in nearly every scene. That's how bad the banding was on my first 65".
The service techs who looked at and worked on my Tv after the first panel replacement could not believe the amount of banding Samsung was saying was OK.
post #9563 of 16126
JamieMac99,
Samsung seems to be raising the amount of banding that they are allowing, which is bad news for those of us who own the 65". My replacement panel is very nearly as bad as my original (it was horrible), and Samsung is giving me a big hassle on the second attempt to replace. What I really am asking for is a full refund on the television, and no one from Samsung will admit my television has an issue. I have no faith another replacement panel will make the banding acceptable to me or my wife.
post #9564 of 16126
Bladerunner1959,
I'm through with Samsung after this. Win lose, or draw on my complaint, this television is history. If they do not fix the banding, then I will sell the television at a loss to someone for maybe $2500. If they fix the banding with a replacement panel, I will sell the television at a loss. I'm not going to keep a potential powder keg, with dubious quality, for my main television, and if something goes wrong, have to deal with Samsung again.
If Samsung gives me a full refund, like I'm asking, then I will purchase, more than likely, a Panasonic VT50 65" plasma-basically, I will take the uniformity of a plasma over the superior, at times, LED picture.
post #9565 of 16126
Previous comment applies to my bro's that have concerns and are within a return period. I know there are many who are satisfied with their 65's. I chose a 60 even when the 70" Quattron was in budget....
post #9566 of 16126
Hey Garnoch

I just wanted to say THANKS
You and I have the same TV and the same panel I dont have any banding or flash lighting or bleeding
I do have some clouding, I didnt notice it at first, but between screen load changes when ithe screen
turned grey I could see it. It seemed to be diminishing with time. I read you blurb about massaging
the panel. I took the fiber cloth that came with the TV and just started lightly wiping, like I was cleaning.
I went from one side to the other, top to bottom, I did this a couple of times. Wow I couldnt belive it
the clouding is now gone, I never would have thought this would have worked. IT WORKS!!!

I streamed a movie from my pc with PS3 media server to the 7500 last night. Ya it worked great.
The 7500 didnt stumble and I was able to use ARC with my Yamaha RX-A3000 too.
Its kinda cool because PS3 media server recognized the sammy ap right away and displays a
TV and says Samsung all share/play

PS Im going to try your settings, they should work great, as our TVs and panels are the same
post #9567 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruegway View Post

JamieMac99,
Samsung seems to be raising the amount of banding that they are allowing, which is bad news for those of us who own the 65". My replacement panel is very nearly as bad as my original (it was horrible), and Samsung is giving me a big hassle on the second attempt to replace. What I really am asking for is a full refund on the television, and no one from Samsung will admit my television has an issue. I have no faith another replacement panel will make the banding acceptable to me or my wife.

I can confirm this. I had horrible banding and they rejected my claim without even having the decency to explain why it was rejected. Thankfully amazon is amazing and I had a few days left to return it.
post #9568 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

I considered the Sony 65 Hx950 but after researching and looking at screenshots, vertical banding is also present and problematic on many of those with the main difference being Sammy banding is wider bands whereas the Sony is thinner but more numerous. I wasn't about to pay 2000 more for a tv with the same type of Limitations bandwise.

Maybe try a 7500, if you only want a 60"

I dont know if this is true any more. When I bought my other sammy 4 years ago I remember reading where Sony wasnt going to be making there own panels. Sony was going to getting their panels from Samsung. Samsung was building
some state of the art panel facility with millions and millions invested. I guess they should have spent a bit more or alotted more for R&D

I can really understand peopled being pissed. I would definitely buy another samsung myself I have 0 buyers remorse with my TV. I might have got the 8000 but $500 + tax more wasnt worth it. I will be getting the extended warranty though. The place where I bought my TV has the extendedwarranty for $259. If you dont use it you get an in store credit for that amount, I figure in 4 years I will buy another TV.
post #9569 of 16126
Ruegway, I am sensitive to what you are going through but I totally disagree. I would never go to any plasma because of a bad experience with a 65" led. Not one plasma was in my top five choices after I did extensive shopping. I would be unhappy with a plasma 100% of the time. Good luck my friend.
post #9570 of 16126
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruegway View Post

Bladerunner1959,
I'm through with Samsung after this. Win lose, or draw on my complaint, this television is history. If they do not fix the banding, then I will sell the television at a loss to someone for maybe $2500. If they fix the banding with a replacement panel, I will sell the television at a loss. I'm not going to keep a potential powder keg, with dubious quality, for my main television, and if something goes wrong, have to deal with Samsung again.
If Samsung gives me a full refund, like I'm asking, then I will purchase, more than likely, a Panasonic VT50 65" plasma-basically, I will take the uniformity of a plasma over the superior, at times, LED picture.

Ruegway, I am sure this is somewhere in this long history, but why don't you return the panel?
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