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Official Samsung UNxxES8000 Owner's Thread - Page 323

post #9661 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjmccord View Post

F8000, wow...

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/07/dnp-samsung-2013-lcds-and-plasmas/
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post #9662 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:18pm
For those of you that might be interested, the only contact from Samsung today was a FB rep, who of course, could not tell me anything. Another day without my television-can't sell it if its not here, or can't get a refund if they won't admit there is something wrong.
I'm definitely running out of gas fighting them.
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post #9663 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:24pm
so how does one install the evolution kit anyway? i thought it was that whole piece in the back with the inputs/outputs that we need to remove, but that new evo kit tells me otherwise. so who's gonna be the first to jump on it regardless of price?
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post #9664 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:26pm
Evo Kit looks much larger than I expected.

Damn looks like it adds all the features - nothing about picture. Figured. Oh well. I don't see anything on price either.
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post #9665 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMakoto View Post

so how does one install the evolution kit anyway? i thought it was that whole piece in the back with the inputs/outputs that we need to remove, but that new evo kit tells me otherwise. so who's gonna be the first to jump on it regardless of price?

ME! They just showed how it clicks into the back in like 2 seconds.

That new OLED TV sounds neat, have to see it to really appreciate it, but watching 2 different shows on one TV might/could be neat.
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post #9666 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:32pm
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Originally Posted by ruegway View Post

I will try and explain why there is multiple band lines in film. This may take awhile, but I will try and condense.

This is a film line similar to those that make the layers for the LED/LCD arrays used in our televisions. The horizontal stainless looking item with the multiple holes in it is the die, which takes the melted plastic and spreads it out across the width of the die, lets say 50" wide, and 1/4" thick. There is an opening along the entire width of the die where melted plastic is squeezed out in a long line-the length of this opening determines how wide the melted film is.

The die in this photo is on the far right. The melted plastic coming out of the die is squeezed between two textured rolls, which are cooled well below the melting point of the plastic. The melted plastic is solidified within an 1/8" after contacting the compressed rolls. This quick solidification causes various stress in the film, all the way across the entire width. These rolls may be turning anywhere from 5 to 500 feet per minute, depending on what you are making.
OK, anone ever measured a piece of steel or aluminum with a micrometer? Its not dead even in thickness all the way across the width. Same thing with film-they have a thickness tolerance of maybe +- 5% across the width. So film that is 0.030" thick may actually be .0285" to .0315" thick. Say I take measurements of the film thickness across the width with a micrometer after the film is finished. Here are my measurements, across the width--0.0287, 0.0296, 0.0313, 0.0289, 0.0312, 0.0290. The film meets specification because its +-5%, but is really not level.
Remember back in the previous paragraph when I told you I put stress in the film because I squeezed it between two rolls, and cooled it from a liquid to a solid very quickly? Now, the higher measurements have greater stresses in them than the lower micrometer measurements. I just measured 5 points across the film, but now imagine the highs as hills and the low measurements as valleys across the width of the film, going down the length of the film like little straight rivers. Remember, I've squeezed this film between two rolls, so the hills (high points) have much more stress in them than the valleys (low points). When you backlight or edge light the film in the array, these lows or highs looks like a band down the length of the film. I'm not sure if the banding is caused by a low area, or a high area.
If, like on the 65" sets, they splice two pieces of film together, you end up with banding across the entire web.
Either Samsung is having an issue when they make the 65"-it's process related, or the film they use for the 60" and below is of a litter better quality, or a little easier to keep the high and low stress out of it during its initial manufacture. I bet their technology department has this as their Number 1 problem to solve.
Samsung has to be losing money on the 65", another reason the amount of banding they seem to be allowing is increasing--the bottom line is they are doing the best they can with their present technology.

better watch out - you keep this up and the next legal team sueing samsung will be calling you as their expert witness tongue.gif
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post #9667 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Evo Kit looks much larger than I expected.
Damn looks like it adds all the features - nothing about picture. Figured. Oh well. I don't see anything on price either.

Lol, i told you this weeks ago. All marketing gimmicky stuff.
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post #9668 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

Lol, i told you this weeks ago. All marketing gimmicky stuff.

Well thats what CES is all about anyway, its hype for new stuff, its marketing and excitement...build up the buzz. I'm excited about the Evo Kit.
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post #9669 of 15265
1/7/13 at 2:58pm
Mo949,
these are just educated guesses on my part. I have seen banding before in film, and have a pretty good idea what causes it. Placing a light behind it , or to the side like edge lit, tends to bring out any flaws in the film-it can be remarkable when you look at film without it being backlit, and then backlighting it. Baclighting It shows every flaw.
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post #9670 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Evo Kit looks much larger than I expected.
Damn looks like it adds all the features - nothing about picture. Figured. Oh well. I don't see anything on price either.

According to the Verge, Samsung is quoted as saying between $200 - $400. If we're at the lower end of that price range, I'm interested. Otherwise, not so much. Also, it ships with a new remote, although not sure why.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3845610/samsung-new-2013-smart-hub-tv-interface-hands-on-smart-evolution-kit/in/3612155
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post #9671 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Evo Kit looks much larger than I expected.
Damn looks like it adds all the features - nothing about picture. Figured. Oh well. I don't see anything on price either.

I was thinking the exact same... Would have loved to see a picture tweak or two thrown in instead of just all smart hub... At least an extra HDMI jack or two would have been a nice addition.
Edited by badabing - 1/7/13 at 6:05pm
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post #9672 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjmccord View Post

Well thats what CES is all about anyway, its hype for new stuff, its marketing and excitement...build up the buzz. I'm excited about the Evo Kit.

Yeah me too. Although I think the S-Recommendation feature is one of the stupidest "smart" features they've pushed in awhile

I'm looking forward to plugging in my Evo kit and getting a quad core with an almost 4x faster Smart Hub experience (and room for boatloads of apps). That makes it worth it for me, and for anyone who actually uses the Smart Hub. Anything the kit provides on top of that is just a bonus really

Of course I would also like to see them add more software dimming zones - and they very well may have as they are now claiming that the new tv's have "thousands" of dimming zones (an improved software algorithm?). This article from last year states the ES8000 had 600 or so software dimming zones
http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-sitex-2012-tvs-av-products-buying-guide/audio-visual-samsung-toshiba

And I welcome the new Smart remote as last year's touch remote sucked pretty bad
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post #9673 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

Lol, i told you this weeks ago. All marketing gimmicky stuff.

I don't want to put words into Garnoch's mouth, but I don't think that was the point he was trying to make. The evo kit, in my opinion, is very nice. Depending on the price, I definitely am interested. For some I can see it doesn't add much, but for others, myself included, it's a welcomed upgrade.
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post #9674 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

Lol, i told you this weeks ago. All marketing gimmicky stuff.

I'd already been saying it for months. Still doesn't change that having the option if you use those features isn't better than having a set unable to upgrade its CPU and GPU.
Edited by Garnoch - 1/7/13 at 3:42pm
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post #9675 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

I don't want to put words into Garnoch's mouth, but I don't think that was the point he was trying to make. The evo kit, in my opinion, is very nice. Depending on the price, I definitely am interested. For some I can see it doesn't add much, but for others, myself included, it's a welcomed upgrade.

Exactly - depending on price, I will too, but it will have to be cheaper if it's only dealing with the hub and features I don't use like voice control - unless it will talk to my DVR and AVR, etc - which of course it won't, so saying "channel 2" will do nothing anyway.
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post #9676 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmay91472 View Post

That happened to me when the first rear projection HDTVs hit the market and I started reading about convergence points, etc,... Couldn't stop myself from going into the service menu and calling up the convergence grid on a regular basis to check and align the CRT guns.

Does this bring back memories! I had an earlier Hitachi big screen that had an automatic convergence on it. Turns out it wasn't so automatic. I had extended warranty and had to use it to fix the TV. They weren't happy!
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post #9677 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchman View Post

According to the Verge, Samsung is quoted as saying between $200 - $400. If we're at the lower end of that price range, I'm interested. Otherwise, not so much. Also, it ships with a new remote, although not sure why.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3845610/samsung-new-2013-smart-hub-tv-interface-hands-on-smart-evolution-kit/in/3612155

Very interesting. Thanks for the link. If there are picture changes, I would pay $400. If it's just smart hub speed and voice/motion stuff, I'd pay $200. Other prices I'll have to consider based on what it really does.

That link was a great read. Highly recommended. Thanks again.
(the comments at the bottom are a good read too)
Edited by Garnoch - 1/7/13 at 4:05pm
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post #9678 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:34pm
That easel looking stand is pretty atrocious! I wall mount all my TVs so it wouldn't matter if I were interested in that TV, but why would Samsung make something that bad? I can't imagine anyone using that stand and thinking it looked nice.
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post #9679 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Does this bring back memories! I had an earlier Hitachi big screen that had an automatic convergence on it. Turns out it wasn't so automatic. I had extended warranty and had to use it to fix the TV. They weren't happy!

lol. This reminds me of my old 65 toshiba crt. Oh but what a glorious day to behold that behemoth of a box that came bearing the 400lb monster. It literally was too tall in the box to make it into the garage.
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post #9680 of 15265
1/7/13 at 3:47pm
Forget smarthub, ill just turn on my xbox or ps3. Or better yet use kinect for a far superior motion and voice control exp.
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post #9681 of 15265
1/7/13 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Evo Kit looks much larger than I expected.
Damn looks like it adds all the features - nothing about picture. Figured. Oh well. I don't see anything on price either.
Excellent: This exactly what I was hoping for. I'm happy enough with PQ as-is. But it will be awesome to get the Smart functions to speed up even more. I'd pay $400 for this. I wonder if it's up for pre-order anywhere ...
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post #9682 of 15265
1/7/13 at 4:50pm
This Evo kit may add to PQ after all!

A little about the new line of TVs:

"There are many common factors across the higher end models, including new A15 quad-core 1.35GHz CPUs that claim a 3.6x speed boost over last year's dual cores. That extra horsepower isn't being wasted either, as this year's sets are the first to decode HEVC video..."

I was reading an old article about the Evo kit and found this:

"There are some real potential upsides to Samsung’s Smart Evolution idea, depending on how the company implements it. Earlier this year, we covered the work being done on the next-generation video codec that’s eventually slated to replace H.264, known as H.265 or HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding). HVEC is designed to improve fidelity while slashing bandwidth, and it achieves these goals by beefing up the required decompression computing power. That requirement means a number of televisions sold today won’t be able to play H.265-encoded content.

An upgradeable television could neatly dodge this bullet. An 8-bit Smart Evolution display still wouldn’t be able to display the true 10-bit color that H.265 allows, but this problem could be mitigated with a high-quality video processor. A 10-bit source interpolated to 8-bit can still offer superior color reproduction than a straight 8-bit signal — starting with 10 bits of data allows the video hardware to create a more accurate reproduction of the source. The images above offer a comparison between 8-bit and 10-bit color from the open film The Elephants Dream. — an 8-bit video downsampled from 10-bit would be somewhere between the two."

You can read the whole thing and see the pictures he mentioned here:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133528-samsungs-upgradable-tv-doa-unless-the-company-reinvents-itself

If in fact this upgrade allows our TVs to be able to decode and play this new codec, the question then is where will you get access to movies/video that is also using it? Now I'm even more excited than ever about this upgrade kit!
Edited by Jestered - 1/7/13 at 5:01pm
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post #9683 of 15265
1/7/13 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt989 View Post

All Edge lit LED/LCD's will have banding to some degree. I can spot banding on everyone. Some, of course are worse than others.

Now I am confused....
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post #9684 of 15265
1/7/13 at 5:24pm
Still using MD Ultimate and MD Pro. No word of local dimming or anything about Cinema Black.
From the press release....

http://www.samsung.com/us/news/20345
LED TV – The Brightest Picture Available

Samsung continues its leadership in the LED Smart TV market by integrating new hardware with spectacularly designed televisions to provide the finest viewing experience available. The F8000 offers more vibrant and richer colors, higher contrasts and a brighter picture quality than ever before. With Samsung’s proprietary Micro Dimming Ultimate technology, the TV line brings greater contrast, deeper black levels and maximum brightness of 3D images, allowing for an amazing image. The F8000 is the world’s first Smart LED TV with a quad-core processor, so consumers can toggle between apps, online services and on-air TV quickly and easily without missing a moment of their favorite entertainment. The F8000 will be available this year in 46”, 55”, 60”, 65” and 75” class screen sizes.

For a TV that offers a dramatic design revolution, the Samsung F7500 is a beautiful piece of art that effortlessly complements any living room set up. Its slim bezel with rose gold accents creates sophisticated lines that flow elegantly into the base, forming a stunning ripple effect along the bottom of the TV. Samsung’s Micro Dimming Pro technology delivers sharper contrast, deeper blacks and crystal clear detail enhancements. The F7500 includes the same quad-core processor offered in the F8000, enabling Smart Interaction and other advanced features. It is available in 46”, 55”, and 60” class screen sizes.

Samsung Evolution Kit – Delivering Smart TV feature updates

Each flagship Samsung Smart TV comes with a Smart Evolution slot at the back of the TV that allows consumers to easily update the hardware and software on their TVs so that they can stay up-to-date with the latest innovations. By adding the Evolution Kit to their 2012 Smart TVs, consumers can enjoy a redesigned Smart Hub, enhanced Voice Interaction and Motion Control, as well as a quad-core chipset for increased processing power. Flagship 2013 Smart TVs will also be equipped with slots for future Smart Evolution kits.

Please visit our booth to experience this future technology firsthand. Samsung's product line will be displayed from January 8-11 at booth #12004 in the Central Hall of the Las Vegas Convention Center.

Full details, video content and product images are available at the Samsung microsite at http://www.samsungces.com/ or mobile site at http://m.samsungces.com as well.
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post #9685 of 15265
1/7/13 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiemac99 View Post

Now I am confused....

Don't be confused, Bolt just has has one of those things over his eyes giving him amazing vision like Geordi La Forge from Star Trek. wink.gif
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post #9686 of 15265
1/7/13 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jestered View Post

This Evo kit may add to PQ after all!
A little about the new line of TVs:
"There are many common factors across the higher end models, including new A15 quad-core 1.35GHz CPUs that claim a 3.6x speed boost over last year's dual cores. That extra horsepower isn't being wasted either, as this year's sets are the first to decode HEVC video..."
I was reading an old article about the Evo kit and found this:
"There are some real potential upsides to Samsung’s Smart Evolution idea, depending on how the company implements it. Earlier this year, we covered the work being done on the next-generation video codec that’s eventually slated to replace H.264, known as H.265 or HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding). HVEC is designed to improve fidelity while slashing bandwidth, and it achieves these goals by beefing up the required decompression computing power. That requirement means a number of televisions sold today won’t be able to play H.265-encoded content.
An upgradeable television could neatly dodge this bullet. An 8-bit Smart Evolution display still wouldn’t be able to display the true 10-bit color that H.265 allows, but this problem could be mitigated with a high-quality video processor. A 10-bit source interpolated to 8-bit can still offer superior color reproduction than a straight 8-bit signal — starting with 10 bits of data allows the video hardware to create a more accurate reproduction of the source. The images above offer a comparison between 8-bit and 10-bit color from the open film The Elephants Dream. — an 8-bit video downsampled from 10-bit would be somewhere between the two."
You can read the whole thing and see the pictures he mentioned here:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133528-samsungs-upgradable-tv-doa-unless-the-company-reinvents-itself
If in fact this upgrade allows our TVs to be able to decode and play this new codec, the question then is where will you get access to movies/video that is also using it? Now I'm even more excited than ever about this upgrade kit!

Great info, thanks, Jestered. I guess it would have to come from the hub though because by the time HVEC is being used elsewhere, it will be built into our devices too - like new Blu-ray players, etc.
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post #9687 of 15265
1/7/13 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Still using MD Ultimate and MD Pro....

I'm just awaiting word on whether the "thousands" of software based dimming zones in the F8000's version of Micro Dimming Ulitimate will be made available to us through the Evo Kit. And would it make a difference vs. the 600 or so zones they were claiming when the ES8000 was released (or is it all just marketing speak?)

I don't see why an increase in the # of zones wouldn't be transferrable, unless they were holding back on a few features to make the new sets stand apart. But I've seen marketing today that keeps suggesting how the upgrade literally "turns your 2012 tv into a 2013 tv" Other features I wonder if we will also get are the briefly mentioned Motion Judder Cancellation Pro, and Web Picture Quality Enhancer. Obviously no Cinema Black (every iteration of that has been hardware based thus far anyway)

But maybe there will be a couple of software features/menu items that transfer over. Heck, the whole tv experience could hopefully be identical to the F8000 and any changes they've made to the menu's/features/etc. if they've done as their marketing suggests
Edited by gamermwm - 1/7/13 at 6:09pm
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post #9688 of 15265
1/7/13 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnoch View Post

Don't be confused, Bolt just has has one of those things over his eyes giving him amazing vision like Geordi La Forge from Star Trek. wink.gif

I was actually confused because I thought Bolt's panel was hand picked by master craftsmen at Samsung and provided a flawless picture, but now it has flaws?

And not only that but ALL LED's have banding eventhough it hasn't been reported here on ALL sets? As best I can tell banding hasn't been mentioned on a 46", is "replaceable" on a 55" or 60" and more of an issue on the 65"?

It is pretty difficult to wade through all this (mis)information.
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post #9689 of 15265
1/7/13 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiemac99 View Post

I was actually confused because I thought Bolt's panel was hand picked by master craftsmen at Samsung and provided a flawless picture
ROTFLMAO!!!
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post #9690 of 15265
1/7/13 at 7:40pm
I watched "Fargo" last night on my 60". That movie is your banding torture test with all the snowy landscape and winter sky. Not a band to be found on my panel....period
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